What about Salty?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Salty is/should be GONE !!!   We can upgrade that position from within at less $$$$$$$$$$$$$   !!!!

    [/QUOTE]

    Upgrade?

    Lava will not have a better year than Salty's 2013 season.

    [/QUOTE]


    I'd like to know where "the next Carlton Fisk's" power went...from 75 combined HR in 2009-11 to just 14 the last two seasons.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to 808soxfan's comment:

    I think that the Sox will offer Salty something like 3/27 or 3/30. He will probably get something better elsewhere. I would imagine that the Yankees will overpay for McCann. If Salty bails, our next catcher may be gotten via trade from the Angels, as others have suggested. I like Salty despite his inability to throw out runners.



    You might not like McCann much either since him and Salty are like 1% apart on lifetime CS%. Bu that stat has a lot to do with the pitchers and other variables.

    McCann could get 14-16M and 5 years. Salty could get 9-12M and 4-5 years. McCann is obviously more superior offensively, but they really arent that far apart defensively. I agree BM is the overall better catcher. No question. The question is, is he possibly worth 4-5Mper more per than Salty?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Id like McCann.  Would be a nice fit in the middle of the lineup.  Is also very close with Ross.  He has done a great job with atlantas staff.  

    Victorino/Pedey/Papi/McCann/Naps/Nava(Gomes)/Bogey/Middlebrooks/JBJ

    having so many young pitchers i want someone back there who can lead them.  Ross n McCann being friends will make the transition easier.  The above noted lineup still brings speed, quality defense, offense, youth and vets.  

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree with all of this. Although Ive become a fan of Salty and seeing his improvements over the last 2 years, I wouldnt complain one bit if they got McCann. I just hope his $$ and years are reasonable. He turns 30 during ST and is expected to get 14M per and talks of 5 years. That would make him 34 for his final year if it was 5 years. By then Papi will be gone, McCann could DH, and Vasquez, Swihart or even Denney are involved.

    I think Salty will improve even more and should receive a good deal. Not sure anymore if its with the Sox. All I know is Lavarnway has not impressed AT ALL behind the plate. Theres a reason they didnt play him when Ross went down. They never used Butler either, so hes not in the mix at 27-28yo. Vasquez will need at least a year at AAA before he can be considered for full time in Boston, maybe 2. He could be used in a pinch this year, but thats it. Swihart will start at AA. Thats all we have in the upper system.

    Both would be more of a commitment to the catching position, as both guys can play full time for the duration of their deals. Would either be willing to cut their playing time as a catcher and DH if Vasquez or Swihart are ready in a year or 2? I know I would certainly ask what a teams future plans are at the position. If I had an offer from another team to be the catcher for the duration of the deal, Id take that instead of possibly having to cut my time.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to 808soxfan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think that the Sox will offer Salty something like 3/27 or 3/30. He will probably get something better elsewhere. I would imagine that the Yankees will overpay for McCann. If Salty bails, our next catcher may be gotten via trade from the Angels, as others have suggested. I like Salty despite his inability to throw out runners.

    [/QUOTE]

    You might not like McCann much either since him and Salty are like 1% apart on lifetime CS%. Bu that stat has a lot to do with the pitchers and other variables.

    McCann could get 14-16M and 5 years. Salty could get 9-12M and 4-5 years. McCann is obviously more superior offensively, but they really arent that far apart defensively. I agree BC is the overall better catcher. No question. The question is, is he possibly worth 4-5Mper more per than Salty?

    [/QUOTE]


    McCann has had some big offensive years, but his last 2 years combined are very close to Salty's. Salty is improving, while it appears McCann is in decline (injury related). I don't see McCann's offense as worthy of a 1Bman or DH for years 3-5, so I'd stay away.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    All I know is Lavarnway has not impressed AT ALL behind the plate. 

    He may someday get there, and maybe his learning curve will be faster than Salty's, but this team cannot afford to let him learn "on the job" next year and have high hopes of repeating what our staff did this year.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    All I know is Lavarnway has not impressed AT ALL behind the plate. 

    He may someday get there, and maybe his learning curve will be faster than Salty's, but this team cannot afford to let him learn "on the job" next year and have high hopes of repeating what our staff did this year.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't know Moon, maybe next year will be our "reset" year.  that was what this was supposed to be!?!

    Ben C may get someone we never even thought of behind the dish and we'll win 101....

     
  7. This post has been removed.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sportswizard1. Show Sportswizard1's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    I only read the first page of posts. I just got done watching the Cherrinton and Farrell presser from Fenway on mlb.com and it appears that they will not QO Salty. They have announced they will place QO's on Ellsbury,Naps, and Drew. The guy I would watch as a possible replacement is Chico Ruiz.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: What about Salty?


    Salty could still be back under the right deal. However, 14.1 was just too much money even for 1 year. Catchers don't make that kind of money unless they are really good. I would still offer him a couple of contracts after I offer a couple to other catchers. Maybe as high as 1-12, 2-22. If thats not enough, then its not enough.

    McCann's horrible finish has me spooked a bit. McCann is clearly the better catcher defensively. And he has been clearly better on offense in the past. I would like to know why he played so badly late however.

    I have no problem with his age or a long contract, if it wasn't for that finish. McCann should not be looked at as a DH option. He is a catcher in his 20's. Catchers often get better with age. I like the fact McCann is a lefty. I don't like his pull swing though. I would not offer that much per year for him. Maybe as high as 4-15 or 14-5.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Salty is certainly not a top defensive catcher by any means

    Top 10 at...

    He is at pitch framing.

    [/QUOTE]


    I disagree. Here is a stat in pitch framing that says he was slightly below average from 2008-2012.

    http://www.baseballanalytics.org/baseball-analytics-blog/2013/3/9/jose-molina-ryan-doumit-and-snatching-strikes.html?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=BaseballAnalytics.org

     

    He might be better then these stats say, but I think his pitch framing is up for debate. McCann is better at it I think.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Id like McCann.  Would be a nice fit in the middle of the lineup.  Is also very close with Ross.  He has done a great job with atlantas staff.  

    Victorino/Pedey/Papi/McCann/Naps/Nava(Gomes)/Bogey/Middlebrooks/JBJ

    having so many young pitchers i want someone back there who can lead them.  Ross n McCann being friends will make the transition easier.  The above noted lineup still brings speed, quality defense, offense, youth and vets.  

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree with all of this. Although Ive become a fan of Salty and seeing his improvements over the last 2 years, I wouldnt complain one bit if they got McCann. I just hope his $$ and years are reasonable. He turns 30 during ST and is expected to get 14M per and talks of 5 years. That would make him 34 for his final year if it was 5 years. By then Papi will be gone, McCann could DH, and Vasquez, Swihart or even Denney are involved.

    I think Salty will improve even more and should receive a good deal. Not sure anymore if its with the Sox. All I know is Lavarnway has not impressed AT ALL behind the plate. Theres a reason they didnt play him when Ross went down. They never used Butler either, so hes not in the mix at 27-28yo. Vasquez will need at least a year at AAA before he can be considered for full time in Boston, maybe 2. He could be used in a pinch this year, but thats it. Swihart will start at AA. Thats all we have in the upper system.

    Both would be more of a commitment to the catching position, as both guys can play full time for the duration of their deals. Would either be willing to cut their playing time as a catcher and DH if Vasquez or Swihart are ready in a year or 2? I know I would certainly ask what a teams future plans are at the position. If I had an offer from another team to be the catcher for the duration of the deal, Id take that instead of possibly having to cut my time.

    [/QUOTE]

    The facts of the matter are that

    1. He has never been given the kind of shot Salty got here to do the job. For a full year Salty had a dWAR of 0.2 his first year as full time catcher. Lavarnway has had so little experience that his sample size is small. This year his dWAR was 0.

    2. Lavarnway has succeeded at every level he has been given a fair shot to play regularly. Just because the FO isn't giving him that shot doesn't mean he can't do it an improve defensively just like Salty did when he played regularly-not that Salty or Lavarnway is ever going to be a top notch defensive catcher. To say that he has "not impressed" is absurd because he has never been given a shot to play consistently. Its like saying the Drew has not impressed because he stunk offensively in the WS-too few games to draw any conclusions.

    Lavarnway deserves a chance to play regularly, with us or with someone else. I suspect he will succeed, but I don't know it for a fact. No one does. You cannot judge his ML career yet because he simply has been on the back burner the whole time.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    I dont think its right for the Sox to not give him an offer. Are they going after McCann? I dont understand why you wouldnt want him back. He was a solid to good catcher all season. He set a record for doubles, no way the Sox get to the WS if wasnt here.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I dont think its right for the Sox to not give him an offer. Are they going after McCann? I dont understand why you wouldnt want him back. He was a solid to good catcher all season. He set a record for doubles, no way the Sox get to the WS if wasnt here.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think they might be inclined to bring him back. It's just that they don't want to pay him 14 mil. They could try to sign him for less. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I dont think its right for the Sox to not give him an offer. Are they going after McCann? I dont understand why you wouldnt want him back. He was a solid to good catcher all season. He set a record for doubles, no way the Sox get to the WS if wasnt here.

    [/QUOTE]

    They are probably working on a deal in the neighborhood of $11m for three years. That might do the job. I think a QO would have been a better move because while its overpaying him, its just for one year if he accepts. If not, we get a draft pick. After a year Vasquez might be ready.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    That wouldn't make sense, 3 years at 11 million. 1 year at 14 makes sense. Plus compensation. Catchers are a great commodity, Sox should have put a QO on Salty.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    If the Sox dont get him, someone will. Like NY? We may be mad at him for the throwing error, but Salt is a dirt dog. I want him back.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

     

    If the Sox dont get him, someone will. Like NY? We may be mad at him for the throwing error, but Salt is a dirt dog. I want him back.

     




     

    +1. Especially since he's  tried and tested, in Boston. If the front office has learned anything, it should be, playing in a BIG market, isn't for everyone. He's also a good clubhouse guy, who the pitchers are comfortable with. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to J-BAY's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

     

    If the Sox dont get him, someone will. Like NY? We may be mad at him for the throwing error, but Salt is a dirt dog. I want him back.

     




     

    +1. Especially since he's  tried and tested, in Boston. If the front office has learned anything, it should be, playing in a BIG market, isn't for everyone. He's also a good clubhouse guy, who the pitchers are comfortable with. 

    [/QUOTE]

    He didnt play well in the big market when it mattered most.  His bat was supposed to be a big difference maker but he was an auto strike out.  I wouldnt mind him coming back, but when Jacoby leaves we need to get a reliable bat.  

    i wish he would have a better playoffs bc he really has come a long way.  I guess we had a lot of quiet bats.   I think he moves on.  

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Id like McCann.  Would be a nice fit in the middle of the lineup.  Is also very close with Ross.  He has done a great job with atlantas staff.  

    Victorino/Pedey/Papi/McCann/Naps/Nava(Gomes)/Bogey/Middlebrooks/JBJ

    having so many young pitchers i want someone back there who can lead them.  Ross n McCann being friends will make the transition easier.  The above noted lineup still brings speed, quality defense, offense, youth and vets.  




    I agree with all of this. Although Ive become a fan of Salty and seeing his improvements over the last 2 years, I wouldnt complain one bit if they got McCann. I just hope his $$ and years are reasonable. He turns 30 during ST and is expected to get 14M per and talks of 5 years. That would make him 34 for his final year if it was 5 years. By then Papi will be gone, McCann could DH, and Vasquez, Swihart or even Denney are involved.

    I think Salty will improve even more and should receive a good deal. Not sure anymore if its with the Sox. All I know is Lavarnway has not impressed AT ALL behind the plate. Theres a reason they didnt play him when Ross went down. They never used Butler either, so hes not in the mix at 27-28yo. Vasquez will need at least a year at AAA before he can be considered for full time in Boston, maybe 2. He could be used in a pinch this year, but thats it. Swihart will start at AA. Thats all we have in the upper system.

    Both would be more of a commitment to the catching position, as both guys can play full time for the duration of their deals. Would either be willing to cut their playing time as a catcher and DH if Vasquez or Swihart are ready in a year or 2? I know I would certainly ask what a teams future plans are at the position. If I had an offer from another team to be the catcher for the duration of the deal, Id take that instead of possibly having to cut my time.

    [/QUOTE]

    The facts of the matter are that

    1. He has never been given the kind of shot Salty got here to do the job. For a full year Salty had a dWAR of 0.2 his first year as full time catcher. Lavarnway has had so little experience that his sample size is small. This year his dWAR was 0.

    2. Lavarnway has succeeded at every level he has been given a fair shot to play regularly. Just because the FO isn't giving him that shot doesn't mean he can't do it an improve defensively just like Salty did when he played regularly-not that Salty or Lavarnway is ever going to be a top notch defensive catcher. To say that he has "not impressed" is absurd because he has never been given a shot to play consistently. Its like saying the Drew has not impressed because he stunk offensively in the WS-too few games to draw any conclusions.

    Lavarnway deserves a chance to play regularly, with us or with someone else. I suspect he will succeed, but I don't know it for a fact. No one does. You cannot judge his ML career yet because he simply has been on the back burner the whole time.

    [/QUOTE]


    So you want to give him a tryout next year? Salty was a natural catcher, Lavarnway isnt and it shows. In the time that he was here it was obvious he is bad at blocking balls and is slow behind the plate. The Sox not playing him when Ross went down should tell you all you need to know about there feelings on Lavarnway. Lavs offensive numbers have suffered some over the last couple years too.

    I say give him a 1b mit or trade him.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Salty is certainly not a top defensive catcher by any means

    Top 10 at...

    He is at pitch framing.

    [/QUOTE]


    I disagree. Here is a stat in pitch framing that says he was slightly below average from 2008-2012.

    http://www.baseballanalytics.org/baseball-analytics-blog/2013/3/9/jose-molina-ryan-doumit-and-snatching-strikes.html?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=BaseballAnalytics.org

     

    He might be better then these stats say, but I think his pitch framing is up for debate. McCann is better at it I think.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I remember reading somewhere he was top 5.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    The facts of the matter are that

    1. He has never been given the kind of shot Salty got here to do the job. For a full year Salty had a dWAR of 0.2 his first year as full time catcher. Lavarnway has had so little experience that his sample size is small. This year his dWAR was 0.

    Fact: we didn't come close to winning a ring when Salty was on his learning curve.

     

    2. Lavarnway has succeeded at every level he has been given a fair shot to play regularly. Just because the FO isn't giving him that shot doesn't mean he can't do it an improve defensively just like Salty did when he played regularly-not that Salty or Lavarnway is ever going to be a top notch defensive catcher. To say that he has "not impressed" is absurd because he has never been given a shot to play consistently. Its like saying the Drew has not impressed because he stunk offensively in the WS-too few games to draw any conclusions.

    I never said he can't learn. I just said that we might not be able to afford to let him learn on the job and expect our staff not to suffer, and us possibly not winning another ring as a result.

     

    Lavarnway deserves a chance to play regularly, with us or with someone else. I suspect he will succeed, but I don't know it for a fact. No one does. You cannot judge his ML career yet because he simply has been on the back burner the whole time.

    The jury is still out; I have not given up on him at all, but I like our chances in 2014 with a veteran behind the plate... not Lava. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    So you want to give him a tryout next year? Salty was a natural catcher, Lavarnway isnt and it shows. In the time that he was here it was obvious he is bad at blocking balls and is slow behind the plate. The Sox not playing him when Ross went down should tell you all you need to know about there feelings on Lavarnway. Lavs offensive numbers have suffered some over the last couple years too.

    I say give him a 1b mit or trade him.

     

    I believe Lava became a catcher his senior year at Yale. 

    He's a smart guy, but I doubt he can learn quick enough to risk a season over.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Id like McCann.  Would be a nice fit in the middle of the lineup.  Is also very close with Ross.  He has done a great job with atlantas staff.  

    Victorino/Pedey/Papi/McCann/Naps/Nava(Gomes)/Bogey/Middlebrooks/JBJ

    having so many young pitchers i want someone back there who can lead them.  Ross n McCann being friends will make the transition easier.  The above noted lineup still brings speed, quality defense, offense, youth and vets.  

     




    I agree with all of this. Although Ive become a fan of Salty and seeing his improvements over the last 2 years, I wouldnt complain one bit if they got McCann. I just hope his $$ and years are reasonable. He turns 30 during ST and is expected to get 14M per and talks of 5 years. That would make him 34 for his final year if it was 5 years. By then Papi will be gone, McCann could DH, and Vasquez, Swihart or even Denney are involved.

     

    I think Salty will improve even more and should receive a good deal. Not sure anymore if its with the Sox. All I know is Lavarnway has not impressed AT ALL behind the plate. Theres a reason they didnt play him when Ross went down. They never used Butler either, so hes not in the mix at 27-28yo. Vasquez will need at least a year at AAA before he can be considered for full time in Boston, maybe 2. He could be used in a pinch this year, but thats it. Swihart will start at AA. Thats all we have in the upper system.

    Both would be more of a commitment to the catching position, as both guys can play full time for the duration of their deals. Would either be willing to cut their playing time as a catcher and DH if Vasquez or Swihart are ready in a year or 2? I know I would certainly ask what a teams future plans are at the position. If I had an offer from another team to be the catcher for the duration of the deal, Id take that instead of possibly having to cut my time.

    [/QUOTE]

    The facts of the matter are that

    1. He has never been given the kind of shot Salty got here to do the job. For a full year Salty had a dWAR of 0.2 his first year as full time catcher. Lavarnway has had so little experience that his sample size is small. This year his dWAR was 0.

    2. Lavarnway has succeeded at every level he has been given a fair shot to play regularly. Just because the FO isn't giving him that shot doesn't mean he can't do it an improve defensively just like Salty did when he played regularly-not that Salty or Lavarnway is ever going to be a top notch defensive catcher. To say that he has "not impressed" is absurd because he has never been given a shot to play consistently. Its like saying the Drew has not impressed because he stunk offensively in the WS-too few games to draw any conclusions.

    Lavarnway deserves a chance to play regularly, with us or with someone else. I suspect he will succeed, but I don't know it for a fact. No one does. You cannot judge his ML career yet because he simply has been on the back burner the whole time.

    [/QUOTE]


    So you want to give him a tryout next year? Salty was a natural catcher, Lavarnway isnt and it shows. In the time that he was here it was obvious he is bad at blocking balls and is slow behind the plate. The Sox not playing him when Ross went down should tell you all you need to know about there feelings on Lavarnway. Lavs offensive numbers have suffered some over the last couple years too.

    I say give him a 1b mit or trade him.

    [/QUOTE]

    I would have no problem giving him a shot at it next year; none at all. Like I said, he has succeeded at every level he has played at. I am less concerned about his defense than you are. I think that if he plays regularly he will improve, especially if Varitek can coach him. Just because our FO doesn't think much of him does not make them right. They have missed the boat many many times. I would also not mind giving him a 1B mitt or trading him. The point is, he deserves a shot to play.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    They have missed the boat many many times. I would also not mind giving him a 1B mitt or trading him. The point is, he deserves a shot to play.

    Then shouldn't JBJ, Brentz and several others deserve a shot to play also?

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    Pete Abraham ‏@PeteAbe 3h

    Jarrod Saltalamacchia hit .273/.338/.466 this season and Brian McCann .256/.336/.461. McCann has a 99 OPS+ the last 2 years, Salty 108

     
     
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