What about Salty?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

    Pete Abraham ‏@PeteAbe 3h

    Jarrod Saltalamacchia hit .273/.338/.466 this season and Brian McCann .256/.336/.461. McCann has a 99 OPS+ the last 2 years, Salty 108

     



    I'd still project slightly better offense from a healthy McCann over a healthy Salty in 2014, but it wouldn't be by enough to warrant almost double the contract and years.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    They have missed the boat many many times. I would also not mind giving him a 1B mitt or trading him. The point is, he deserves a shot to play.

    Then shouldn't JBJ, Brentz and several others deserve a shot to play also?



    Those guys will get their shot too. JBJ may well get his next year. At some point in time you have to give these guys a chance to play. You will never know if they can cut it unless they are given that chance. If a minor league player has had the kind of success that Lavarnway has had at AAA ball, and if there is a need for him at the position he plays with the major league club, you give him a shot to do the job. Its a risk, but putting together a team always involves risks.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to The4040club's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    They have missed the boat many many times. I would also not mind giving him a 1B mitt or trading him. The point is, he deserves a shot to play.

    Then shouldn't JBJ, Brentz and several others deserve a shot to play also?



    Those guys will get their shot too. JBJ may well get his next year. At some point in time you have to give these guys a chance to play. You will never know if they can cut it unless they are given that chance. If a minor league player has had the kind of success that Lavarnway has had at AAA ball, and if there is a need for him at the position he plays with the major league club, you give him a shot to do the job. Its a risk, but putting together a team always involves risks.




    I thought JBJ was given a fair shot this year.  Grant it he only came back at the end of the year due to jacoby's injury.  Some of the Providence beat writers were talking about how JBJ was closer to the WS roster than most knew.  I am sure we'll see more of him next year. 



    He had only 107 PAs. I think you need about 200-250 PAs to really have a large enough sample size to begin to make a judgement about a player. Assuming Ellsbury leaves I think you are right: he will be around more next year. I don't think he is as bad as he showed us this year.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to shuperman's comment:

    Id like McCann.  Would be a nice fit in the middle of the lineup.  Is also very close with Ross.  He has done a great job with atlantas staff.  

    Victorino/Pedey/Papi/McCann/Naps/Nava(Gomes)/Bogey/Middlebrooks/JBJ

    having so many young pitchers i want someone back there who can lead them.  Ross n McCann being friends will make the transition easier.  The above noted lineup still brings speed, quality defense, offense, youth and vets.  




    I agree with all of this. Although Ive become a fan of Salty and seeing his improvements over the last 2 years, I wouldnt complain one bit if they got McCann. I just hope his $$ and years are reasonable. He turns 30 during ST and is expected to get 14M per and talks of 5 years. That would make him 34 for his final year if it was 5 years. By then Papi will be gone, McCann could DH, and Vasquez, Swihart or even Denney are involved.

    I think Salty will improve even more and should receive a good deal. Not sure anymore if its with the Sox. All I know is Lavarnway has not impressed AT ALL behind the plate. Theres a reason they didnt play him when Ross went down. They never used Butler either, so hes not in the mix at 27-28yo. Vasquez will need at least a year at AAA before he can be considered for full time in Boston, maybe 2. He could be used in a pinch this year, but thats it. Swihart will start at AA. Thats all we have in the upper system.

    Both would be more of a commitment to the catching position, as both guys can play full time for the duration of their deals. Would either be willing to cut their playing time as a catcher and DH if Vasquez or Swihart are ready in a year or 2? I know I would certainly ask what a teams future plans are at the position. If I had an offer from another team to be the catcher for the duration of the deal, Id take that instead of possibly having to cut my time.



    The facts of the matter are that

    1. He has never been given the kind of shot Salty got here to do the job. For a full year Salty had a dWAR of 0.2 his first year as full time catcher. Lavarnway has had so little experience that his sample size is small. This year his dWAR was 0.

    2. Lavarnway has succeeded at every level he has been given a fair shot to play regularly. Just because the FO isn't giving him that shot doesn't mean he can't do it an improve defensively just like Salty did when he played regularly-not that Salty or Lavarnway is ever going to be a top notch defensive catcher. To say that he has "not impressed" is absurd because he has never been given a shot to play consistently. Its like saying the Drew has not impressed because he stunk offensively in the WS-too few games to draw any conclusions.

    Lavarnway deserves a chance to play regularly, with us or with someone else. I suspect he will succeed, but I don't know it for a fact. No one does. You cannot judge his ML career yet because he simply has been on the back burner the whole time.



    You are ignoring 2012 when Lavarnway got more time behind the plate the last third of the season. The problem with Lava is not his lack of a chance it is has to do with with his regression. His power disappeared. If he was a switch hitter or a lefty, you might take a chance but as a righty with Ross on this team, you probably use him as a third catcher while he has options then finally move on when they run out.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to The4040club's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    They have missed the boat many many times. I would also not mind giving him a 1B mitt or trading him. The point is, he deserves a shot to play.

    Then shouldn't JBJ, Brentz and several others deserve a shot to play also?



    Those guys will get their shot too. JBJ may well get his next year. At some point in time you have to give these guys a chance to play. You will never know if they can cut it unless they are given that chance. If a minor league player has had the kind of success that Lavarnway has had at AAA ball, and if there is a need for him at the position he plays with the major league club, you give him a shot to do the job. Its a risk, but putting together a team always involves risks.




    I thought JBJ was given a fair shot this year.  Grant it he only came back at the end of the year due to jacoby's injury.  Some of the Providence beat writers were talking about how JBJ was closer to the WS roster than most knew.  I am sure we'll see more of him next year. 



    He had only 107 PAs. I think you need about 200-250 PAs to really have a large enough sample size to begin to make a judgement about a player. Assuming Ellsbury leaves I think you are right: he will be around more next year. I don't think he is as bad as he showed us this year.



    Lavarnway has nearly 300.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: What about Salty?


    McCann is not the same player as he was before.  Besides, Salty had better numbers than McCann this year (Salty: .273 BA, 65 RBIs, and 40 doubles).  Evan Gattis is the Braves catcher so McCann will not be going back to the Braves. 

    I hope Boston keeps Salty because a team like the Rangers (who need a catcher) will go after Salty. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to The4040club's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    They have missed the boat many many times. I would also not mind giving him a 1B mitt or trading him. The point is, he deserves a shot to play.

    Then shouldn't JBJ, Brentz and several others deserve a shot to play also?



    Those guys will get their shot too. JBJ may well get his next year. At some point in time you have to give these guys a chance to play. You will never know if they can cut it unless they are given that chance. If a minor league player has had the kind of success that Lavarnway has had at AAA ball, and if there is a need for him at the position he plays with the major league club, you give him a shot to do the job. Its a risk, but putting together a team always involves risks.




    I thought JBJ was given a fair shot this year.  Grant it he only came back at the end of the year due to jacoby's injury.  Some of the Providence beat writers were talking about how JBJ was closer to the WS roster than most knew.  I am sure we'll see more of him next year. 



    He had only 107 PAs. I think you need about 200-250 PAs to really have a large enough sample size to begin to make a judgement about a player. Assuming Ellsbury leaves I think you are right: he will be around more next year. I don't think he is as bad as he showed us this year.



    Lavarnway has nearly 300.



    He had 153 PAs in 2012 when he played most of Aug and Sept. Of course, that was the year Valentine was here, destroying all the morale on the team. I do think that played a role in everyone's performance last year. Even if you do not want to factor that in, he still didn't reach 200-250 ABs. And this year he hit .299 (yes, in a small sample size). I don't know if he will succeed, but I would not have a problem rolling the dice with him.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from charliedarling. Show charliedarling's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    Just because Saltalamacchia did not get a qualifying offer does not mean that the Red Sox have no interest.

    He did have a good year and will likely get better as well as he comes off as a very hard working, leader type of player.

    I think that the Sox thought that 14M was too much if he did not sign elsewhere.  He projects to be a 3 year and 27M or a 2 year and 18-20M to me.  Of course, if he hits better as time goes on he can also play first and DH after Ortiz and maybe Napoli move on.  His hitting right now is not good enough for first base or full time DH.

    I would agree that there is no reason to chase McCann if Saltalamacchie is still available as McCann has already started to decline a little bit.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    Sorry, but his defense is not good. You dont need 250PA's to tell how someones defense is. He is slow and lumbering behind the plate. He doesnt slide over to block balls. He tries to backhand and olay them. He was still doing it in the games he played this year. Like I said, IMHO, he doesnt look natural back there. It lookes forced. If the Sox liked what they saw, they would have played him more when Ross went down.

    Give him a 1b mit.
     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    Sorry, but his defense is not good. You dont need 250PA's to tell how someones defense is. He is slow and lumbering behind the plate. He doesnt slide over to block balls. He tries to backhand and olay them. He was still doing it in the games he played this year. Like I said, IMHO, he doesnt look natural back there. It lookes forced. If the Sox liked what they saw, they would have played him more when Ross went down.

    Give him a 1b mit.
     



    Give him a DH mitt...LOL

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from 808soxfan. Show 808soxfan's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    I would rather have Salty too at reasonable money and years. McCann has dropped off a lot in performance. Have you read some of the Braves' fans comments? (Then again, could they possibly be like Boston fans and complain about most on their team?)

    Salty is younger and won't cost a king's ransom. He obviously fits in with the team and pitching staff. CS percentage is scary, but so is McCann's.

    I hope they give him 3 years. In the third year, Ross will be out and Salty's successor will be ready.

    Salty- DH?? McCann - DH?? Really??? Olney suggests McCann can DH at the end of a 5-year contract. PLEASE!! I hope that we can do a lot better than that!

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to 808soxfan's comment:

    I would rather have Salty too at reasonable money and years. McCann has dropped off a lot in performance. Have you read some of the Braves' fans comments? (Then again, could they possibly be like Boston fans and complain about most on their team?)

    Salty is younger and won't cost a king's ransom. He obviously fits in with the team and pitching staff. CS percentage is scary, but so is McCann's.

    I hope they give him 3 years. In the third year, Ross will be out and Salty's successor will be ready.

    Salty- DH?? McCann - DH?? Really??? Olney suggests McCann can DH at the end of a 5-year contract. PLEASE!! I hope that we can do a lot better than that!

     



    If they give Salty 3 years, Ross is gone after 2014.

    My guess is Lava would start vs LHPs in 2015.

    Vazquez or Swihart could win Lava's spot by 2016.

    If 2 of the 3 kids look great, then we can trade Salty.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from 808soxfan. Show 808soxfan's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to 808soxfan's comment:

    I would rather have Salty too at reasonable money and years. McCann has dropped off a lot in performance. Have you read some of the Braves' fans comments? (Then again, could they possibly be like Boston fans and complain about most on their team?)

    Salty is younger and won't cost a king's ransom. He obviously fits in with the team and pitching staff. CS percentage is scary, but so is McCann's.

    I hope they give him 3 years. In the third year, Ross will be out and Salty's successor will be ready.

    Salty- DH?? McCann - DH?? Really??? Olney suggests McCann can DH at the end of a 5-year contract. PLEASE!! I hope that we can do a lot better than that!

     



    If they give Salty 3 years, Ross is gone after 2014.

    My guess is Lava would start vs LHPs in 2015.

    Vazquez or Swihart could win Lava's spot by 2016.

    If 2 of the 3 kids look great, then we can trade Salty.




    Good plan. Better than McCann, in my opinion. McCann's contract will eventually block the kids or we will have a DH that is sub-par at best.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to BMav's comment:

    I disagree. Here is a stat in pitch framing that says he was slightly below average from 2008-2012.

    http://www.baseballanalytics.org/baseball-analytics-blog/2013/3/9/jose-molina-ryan-doumit-and-snatching-strikes.html?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=BaseballAnalytics.org

    He might be better then these stats say, but I think his pitch framing is up for debate. McCann is better at it I think.

    McCann is still one of the best at receiving pitches (top 5) and better than Salty defensively.  Here is the latest study I could find from BP for 2013:

    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=21855

    Unfortunately, it doesn't give a complete list of all the catchers, but McCann is #5 and Salty is not in the top 10. 

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I'd still project slightly better offense from a healthy McCann over a healthy Salty in 2014, but it wouldn't be by enough to warrant almost double the contract and years.




    Not to mention the draft pick.

    McCann is a better catcher, much better than Salty defensively IMO, but in terms of value, Salty would be the better deal.  The fact that he knows the pitching staff is another pro to re-signing Salty.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

    In response to BMav's comment:

    I disagree. Here is a stat in pitch framing that says he was slightly below average from 2008-2012.

    http://www.baseballanalytics.org/baseball-analytics-blog/2013/3/9/jose-molina-ryan-doumit-and-snatching-strikes.html?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=BaseballAnalytics.org

    He might be better then these stats say, but I think his pitch framing is up for debate. McCann is better at it I think.

    McCann is still one of the best at receiving pitches (top 5) and better than Salty defensively.  Here is the latest study I could find from BP for 2013:

    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=21855

    Unfortunately, it doesn't give a complete list of all the catchers, but McCann is #5 and Salty is not in the top 10. 

     



    That article also showed the top 5 in framing pitches from AA-AAA. Our very own Christian Vasquez ranked 2nd....
    Christian Vazquez, 23, Red Sox: -20.9 (7599)

    We already know he has a GREAT arm. If he calls a good game, I would not mind going with him this season.

    Thanks for that link.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to BMav's comment:

    That article also showed the top 5 in framing pitches from AA-AAA. Our very own Christian Vasquez ranked 2nd....
    Christian Vazquez, 23, Red Sox: -20.9 (7599)

    We already know he has a GREAT arm. If he calls a good game, I would not mind going with him this season.

    Thanks for that link.

    Yes, I forgot to mention that!

    I don't follow the minors closely enough to know how ready he is, but that certainly bodes well for our future.

    Mike Fast said he is working on a study to isolate pitch calling from pitch framing for 2013.  I'm anxious to see the results of that.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    I don't want to go over $7.5 million per year for a catcher; especially considering you need 3 so that's over $10 million a year for that position...

    So I go the opposite of high money, short term and do 3 years/22.5 million


    If he walks, then so bet it

    I am trying to save my money for Ellsbury and pitching...

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    I believe they're going to make a serious play for Ells and so they're not going to spend money on catching (Salty) but go with low-cost talented options in the system plus Ross.  They also want Drew and Naps back.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I'd still project slightly better offense from a healthy McCann over a healthy Salty in 2014, but it wouldn't be by enough to warrant almost double the contract and years.




    Not to mention the draft pick.

    McCann is a better catcher, much better than Salty defensively IMO, but in terms of value, Salty would be the better deal.  The fact that he knows the pitching staff is another pro to re-signing Salty.

     



    McCann is not "much better" than any catcher defensively.

    His CS% is just about a point better.

    Salty does well blocking bad pitches and framing pitches, and has the familiarity factor with our staff. He has greatly improved his numbers with our pitchers over the last 2-3 years.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to BMav's comment:

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

    In response to BMav's comment:

    I disagree. Here is a stat in pitch framing that says he was slightly below average from 2008-2012.

    http://www.baseballanalytics.org/baseball-analytics-blog/2013/3/9/jose-molina-ryan-doumit-and-snatching-strikes.html?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=BaseballAnalytics.org

    He might be better then these stats say, but I think his pitch framing is up for debate. McCann is better at it I think.

    McCann is still one of the best at receiving pitches (top 5) and better than Salty defensively.  Here is the latest study I could find from BP for 2013:

    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=21855

    Unfortunately, it doesn't give a complete list of all the catchers, but McCann is #5 and Salty is not in the top 10. 

     



    That article also showed the top 5 in framing pitches from AA-AAA. Our very own Christian Vasquez ranked 2nd....
    Christian Vazquez, 23, Red Sox: -20.9 (7599)

    We already know he has a GREAT arm. If he calls a good game, I would not mind going with him this season.

    Thanks for that link.



    I'm sure I saw a study somewhere that showed Salty as one of the top pitch framers in MLB.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    This site has Salty saving 10 runs per 120 games with his pitch-framing.

    It shows McCann with 4 runs saved per 120 games.

    It shows Salty is equal to Ross and better than Y Molina in this area...

     

    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=15093

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: What about Salty?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    This site has Salty saving 10 runs per 120 games with his pitch-framing.

    It shows McCann with 4 runs saved per 120 games.

    It shows Salty is equal to Ross and better than Y Molina in this area...

     

    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=15093



    Maybe so Moon, but that doesn't pass the "sniff test". Watching Salty and Ross tells me that Salty is nowhere near as good as Ross is at framing pitches.

     
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