What are your expectations of Xander offensively and defensively?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What are your expectations of Xander offensively and defensively?

    I did not mean .475, but I was too low. I think Bogey will focus more on fielding and getting on base than power his rookie year, so maybe more like .345 OBP/.405 SLG= .750 OPS. I think his numbers will greatly improve over the next few years.

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    I think you and a few others will be pleasantly surprised with his defense Moon. Ive seen him play a lot the last 2 years. Im not claiming a GG or anything, but like i said about Drew last year, hes better than you think.

     

    I hope so, and like I said, maybe I am reading too much into scouting report statements about him possibly moving to 3B, but saying that almost always translates to below average defensive expectations.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What are your expectations of Xander offensively and defensively?

    If Boggie does take over short, he has one of the best second baseman to teach him the ropes. Boggie is athletic and smooth and without a doubt will be better than last year. It is always nice to see a rookie playing.

    A lot of scouting reports mention the need to work on his "footwork".

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: What are your expectations of Xander offensively and defensively?

    .275 with .345 OBP 14hr 78rbi

    Still want Drew, he's a real shortstop and a clutch hitter.  That would force Xander to continue development as a third baseman where he's better suited anyway.  Middy will get a chance to show and he'll get off to a fast start but later will change back into the pumpkin that he is, sorry to say.  If they could trade him during his early hot streak, that would be ideal, only of course that won't happen.  Yet Cecchini is on the way anyway, so we can afford the Middy flop re-do.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: What are your expectations of Xander offensively and defensively?

    I'm thinking a Tony Conigliaro type season at the plate and he doesn't embarass himself at SS.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: What are your expectations of Xander offensively and defensively?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I did not mean .475, but I was too low. I think Bogey will focus more on fielding and getting on base than power his rookie year, so maybe more like .345 OBP/.405 SLG= .750 OPS. I think his numbers will greatly improve over the next few years.




    I think you and a few others will be pleasantly surprised with his defense Moon. Ive seen him play a lot the last 2 years. Im not claiming a GG or anything, but like i said about Drew last year, hes better than you think.

     

    I hope so, and like I said, maybe I am reading too much into scouting report statements about him possibly moving to 3B, but saying that almost always translates to below average defensive expectations.



    The biggest reason people project to move to 3rd is because of his size. Remember his twin was a first baseman catcher. ARod was a large SS and was fine defensively.

 
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: What are your expectations of Xander offensively and defensively?

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I did not mean .475, but I was too low. I think Bogey will focus more on fielding and getting on base than power his rookie year, so maybe more like .345 OBP/.405 SLG= .750 OPS. I think his numbers will greatly improve over the next few years.




    I think you and a few others will be pleasantly surprised with his defense Moon. Ive seen him play a lot the last 2 years. Im not claiming a GG or anything, but like i said about Drew last year, hes better than you think.

     

    I hope so, and like I said, maybe I am reading too much into scouting report statements about him possibly moving to 3B, but saying that almost always translates to below average defensive expectations.



    The biggest reason people project to move to 3rd is because of his size. Remember his twin was a first baseman catcher. ARod was a large SS and was fine defensively.



    Cal Ripken Jr. was larger than Xander Bogaerts.  Many people talked about him outgrowing SS and moving over.  Not only did that not happen, but he was one of the better defensive short stops in the league for years.

    I'm not saying Bogaerts will be one of the best defensive short stops, but I think he is going to surprise a lot of the people who are skeptical about his defense. 

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  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What are your expectations of Xander offensively and defensively?

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I did not mean .475, but I was too low. I think Bogey will focus more on fielding and getting on base than power his rookie year, so maybe more like .345 OBP/.405 SLG= .750 OPS. I think his numbers will greatly improve over the next few years.




    I think you and a few others will be pleasantly surprised with his defense Moon. Ive seen him play a lot the last 2 years. Im not claiming a GG or anything, but like i said about Drew last year, hes better than you think.

     

    I hope so, and like I said, maybe I am reading too much into scouting report statements about him possibly moving to 3B, but saying that almost always translates to below average defensive expectations.



    The biggest reason people project to move to 3rd is because of his size. Remember his twin was a first baseman catcher. ARod was a large SS and was fine defensively.



    Some mention his size, some mention his footwork.

    Look, I'm not sure how good he is or will be defensively. I am going almost totally on the scouting reports. Many reports are very recent, and they still talk about or mention him changing positions. To me, that has always been code for saying he's not very good or will not improve enough to be a plus defender.

    Several scouting reports are saying he has improved or will basically be okay on defense, but nobody is saying he will be a "plus defender". I'm not saying he needs to be "plus" os defense to be an overall plus SS, but my preference has always been for exceptional defesne at the SS position. 

    One other factor is that although we seem deep at 3B, both Middy and Cecchini do not impress me with their defense, so I see them being moved to 1B (Middy or Cecchini) or LF (Cecchini) at some point. Bogey seems like the perfect 3Bman to me, if not right now, then maybe in a year or two.

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  • You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: What are your expectations of Xander offensively and defensively?

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I did not mean .475, but I was too low. I think Bogey will focus more on fielding and getting on base than power his rookie year, so maybe more like .345 OBP/.405 SLG= .750 OPS. I think his numbers will greatly improve over the next few years.




    I think you and a few others will be pleasantly surprised with his defense Moon. Ive seen him play a lot the last 2 years. Im not claiming a GG or anything, but like i said about Drew last year, hes better than you think.

     

    I hope so, and like I said, maybe I am reading too much into scouting report statements about him possibly moving to 3B, but saying that almost always translates to below average defensive expectations.



    The biggest reason people project to move to 3rd is because of his size. Remember his twin was a first baseman catcher. ARod was a large SS and was fine defensively.



    Cal Ripken Jr. was larger than Xander Bogaerts.  Many people talked about him outgrowing SS and moving over.  Not only did that not happen, but he was one of the better defensive short stops in the league for years.

    I'm not saying Bogaerts will be one of the best defensive short stops, but I think he is going to surprise a lot of the people who are skeptical about his defense. 



    You typically don't see 6'3" short stops too often. He is built like Middlebrooks.

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  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What are your expectations of Xander offensively and defensively?

    Cal Ripken Jr. was larger than Xander Bogaerts.  Many people talked about him outgrowing SS and moving over.  Not only did that not happen, but he was one of the better defensive short stops in the league for years.

    I'm not saying Bogaerts will be one of the best defensive short stops, but I think he is going to surprise a lot of the people who are skeptical about his defense. 

    1) One example does not mean Bogey will be a plus defneder at SS.

    2) Cal should have moved to 3B later in his career.

    3) He may have been plus at SS for a while, but he was never great on defense, IMO.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: What are your expectations of Xander offensively and defensively?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Cal Ripken Jr. was larger than Xander Bogaerts.  Many people talked about him outgrowing SS and moving over.  Not only did that not happen, but he was one of the better defensive short stops in the league for years.

    I'm not saying Bogaerts will be one of the best defensive short stops, but I think he is going to surprise a lot of the people who are skeptical about his defense. 

    1) One example does not mean Bogey will be a plus defneder at SS.

    2) Cal should have moved to 3B later in his career.

    3) He may have been plus at SS for a while, but he was never great on defense, IMO.



    No it doesn't...but they are very identical in body type and size.  And even if I'm right, it still means that Bogaerts could very well move and should move down the line.  He was never the best in the league on defense because he was playing with the likes of Trammel, Fernandez, Vizqel and Ozzie....but after that short list you could argue he was the next best defensive short stop.  He could pick it. 

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: What are your expectations of Xander offensively and defensively?

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I did not mean .475, but I was too low. I think Bogey will focus more on fielding and getting on base than power his rookie year, so maybe more like .345 OBP/.405 SLG= .750 OPS. I think his numbers will greatly improve over the next few years.




    I think you and a few others will be pleasantly surprised with his defense Moon. Ive seen him play a lot the last 2 years. Im not claiming a GG or anything, but like i said about Drew last year, hes better than you think.

     

    I hope so, and like I said, maybe I am reading too much into scouting report statements about him possibly moving to 3B, but saying that almost always translates to below average defensive expectations.



    The biggest reason people project to move to 3rd is because of his size. Remember his twin was a first baseman catcher. ARod was a large SS and was fine defensively.



    Cal Ripken Jr. was larger than Xander Bogaerts.  Many people talked about him outgrowing SS and moving over.  Not only did that not happen, but he was one of the better defensive short stops in the league for years.

    I'm not saying Bogaerts will be one of the best defensive short stops, but I think he is going to surprise a lot of the people who are skeptical about his defense. 



    You typically don't see 6'3" short stops too often. He is built like Middlebrooks.



    BoSoxJoe5, 

    Ripken, A-Rod, Tulowitski, Jeter & Hanley Ramirez are all at least 6' 3" shortstops, so Bogaerts is in pretty good company, height wise.  My guess is that he will stick at SS.  He may be better suited down the road at 3rd, but right now he's a better defensive SS than he is a 3rd baseman.

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  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What are your expectations of Xander offensively and defensively?

    Ripken, A-Rod, Tulowitski, Jeter & Hanley Ramirez are all at least 6' 3" shortstops, so Bogaerts is in pretty good company, height wise.  My guess is that he will stick at SS.  He may be better suited down the road at 3rd, but right now he's a better defensive SS than he is a 3rd baseman.

    I agree he will probably stick at SS, at least for a while, but to me being a better defensive SS than 3Bman misses the point.

    If he is below average at SS, other teams gain on us at SS defense. Personally, I think Bogey can become a plus defender at 3B much quicker than at SS, and that is what should be the top consideration.

    The argument that Bogey's offense is so much greater than the league average at SS has merit, but have you looked at the league average 3B offense lately? The offensive gap between SS and 3B is closing. Last year there was only a 40 point OPS differential.

    3B used to be about .770, last year it was .715.

    SS used to be around .650, last year it was .675.

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: What are your expectations of Xander offensively and defensively?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Ripken, A-Rod, Tulowitski, Jeter & Hanley Ramirez are all at least 6' 3" shortstops, so Bogaerts is in pretty good company, height wise.  My guess is that he will stick at SS.  He may be better suited down the road at 3rd, but right now he's a better defensive SS than he is a 3rd baseman.

    I agree he will probably stick at SS, at least for a while, but to me being a better defensive SS than 3Bman misses the point.

    If he is below average at SS, other teams gain on us at SS defense. Personally, I think Bogey can become a plus defender at 3B much quicker than at SS, and that is what should be the top consideration.

    The argument that Bogey's offense is so much greater than the league average at SS has merit, but have you looked at the league average 3B offense lately? The offensive gap between SS and 3B is closing. Last year there was only a 40 point OPS differential.

    3B used to be about .770, last year it was .715.

    SS used to be around .650, last year it was .675.

     



    Moon,

    They aren't putting him at SS to "gain on the league average offensively."  Sox infield instructor Brian Butterfield is "convinced" that he'll stick at SS and your "opinion" that he'll be a better 3rd baseman is just that.  It would also be beneficial for the Sox if he can stick at SS, because unlike you, the Sox haven't given up on Middlebrooks as the 3rd baseman of the future.  Cecchini is obviously another possibility if Middlebrooks doesn't pan out, so it would obviously help solve some logjam problems if Bogaerts can stick at SS.  

    Also, just because YOU feel that you need an All World defensive shortstop to win Championships, it doesn't mean it's a philosophy shared by the Sox Organization.  

    I think you are getting a little too caught up in the stats.  You need a certain amount of offensive production in a line-up, regardless of what "position" it comes from.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What are your expectations of Xander offensively and defensively?

    Moon,

    They aren't putting him at SS to "gain on the league average offensively."  Sox infield instructor Brian Butterfield is "convinced" that he'll stick at SS and your "opinion" that he'll be a better 3rd baseman is just that.  It would also be beneficial for the Sox if he can stick at SS, because unlike you, the Sox haven't given up on Middlebrooks as the 3rd baseman of the future.  

    1) I trust non organizational scouting opinions over a Sox instructor with an agenda. (I'm not doubting that Butterfield is telling the truth, but he'd probably say something like what he said, even if he didn't believe it.)

    2) I have not "given up on Middlebrooks", in fact, I have been saying that if we sign Drew, Bogey should start in AAA (at 3B), and Middy given a long look at 3B. This would also give us an extra year of control of Bogey as well as an excellent left-side depth.

    3) I have serious doubts about Middy's defense at 3B, and I think he may be the 1Bman of our future after Naps' contract ends.

    4) I have repeatedly stated that I have not seen bogey enough to have a real opinion on his fielding, and have been concerned about his fielding at SS from reading almost every scouting report, even very recent ones, say the code words "may move to another position" over and over.

    5) I liked Middy's defense in 2012, but he looked way worse in 2013. I realize he was battling injuries and sophomore adjustments. I have faith in Middy, but see Bogey as the better 3Bman after a short learning curve, and Middy as a better 1Bman than 3Bman eventually.

    6) Yes, it's my opinion, and I have been wrong about fielding expectations many times.

     

    Cecchini is obviously another possibility if Middlebrooks doesn't pan out, so it would obviously help solve some logjam problems if Bogaerts can stick at SS.  

    Agreed, but he supposedly has fielding issues as well and may end up at 1B or OF.

     

    Also, just because YOU feel that you need an All World defensive shortstop to win Championships, it doesn't mean it's a philosophy shared by the Sox Organization.  

    1) I do not think we "need" a great defensive fielder to win a ring. We have won 3 without one.

    2) I have never pretended to think the Sox organization feels the same way as I do: obviously, they do not.

    3) I have admitted I have a bias towards great SS fielding, and certainly i value it more than most posters here and Sox management. I do not pretend to be better than Ben. He has proven to be a very good GM.

     

    I think you are getting a little too caught up in the stats.  You need a certain amount of offensive production in a line-up, regardless of what "position" it comes from.

    Scouting reports are not stats.

    My point about comparative positional offense is this: Bogey hitting an .815 OPS from the SS position is about 100 points above the league norm, but only 60 points above the league 3B norm. Certainly, his offensive value is better placed at SS not 3B, since it is easier, especially for our team to find a capable hitting 3Bman than a good hitting SS.

    Bogey's offensive value should offset (and then some) any defficiency on defense. He will be an overall plus in 2014, in my opinion. I'm happy with Bogey at SS and Middy at 3B. I am against signing Drew. I like Cecchini as our 3B depth. I like Herrera as our utility guy. I'm not calling for moving Bogey right now. The talk of moving Bogey was in the context of signing Drew- which I'm against, so in a way, you are arguing a moot point.

    In general, I think Bogey, after a short time, could and would be a better 3Bman than SS. I feel the same about Middy at 1b instead of 3B, but I admit I am no expert on their skills or projected improvement possibilities.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from KRomine. Show KRomine's posts

    Re: What are your expectations of Xander offensively and defensively?

    In response to seannybboi's comment:

    Farrell said Vic/Nava combo will likely be used as our leadoff.  Strong ST could slide Boggy into #2 or even #3 spot.  Pedey and Boggy will bat #2 and #3 depending on how Boggy does in ST.  Offensively, Boggy could put up strong numbers and be considered as favorite to win ROY.  Bariing any injuries, Boggy will play 150+ games and have 550+ ABs.  I could see him launching around 20 HRs (18-22), 80 RBI, 90 R, .270/.340/.460/.800 line.



    You really like that whole "Boggy" thing, eh?

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What are your expectations of Xander offensively and defensively?

    Farrell said Vic/Nava combo will likely be used as our leadoff.

    Could work out well.

    Nava kills LHPs, at least with OBP.

    Victorino kills LHPs.

     
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