What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    John Lackey - John Lackey was not signed to be dominant during the post season. John Lackey was signed because at the time, Buchholz hadn't developed as a consistent major league starter yet and we needed a pitcher to help us get through the regular season and make the playoffs. Contrary to popular belief there is no postseason roster spot dedicated to the Boston Red Sox, the General Manager must put together a team capable of winning at least 93 games. Shocking, I know. Lackey is an above average guy when it comes to WAR. He was for us last year, putting up more WAR than Buchholz. Why? Because he gave us many quality outings, pitched a lot of innings, and kept us in games, he gave the team a good chance to win throughout the season.

    But don't worry worryworts, the success of John Lackey 2010 is a good thing for this team. Lackey was not consistent this year, he forced us out of many games, most likely due to the injury he suffered and went on the DL for. Since coming off the DL, John Lackey has only improved as time has gone on, culminating in his last 4 starts where he has posted a 1.58 ERA. However, John Lackey isn't a league best below two ERA starter, don't expect that to continue, after all he did blow up just the game before this stretch and give up 7 runs in 2.1 innings. However the John Lackey we've seen over the past 5 starts is the John Lackey we need, he's given us a chance to win 4 out of 5 times. That's acceptable from a number 3, 4, or 5 spot. We'll see where he's needed as the Clay and Bedard scenearios unfold.

    Continuing with my regular season rant - Tim Wakefield and Andrew Miller - In these two we've been lucky and unlucky at the same time. On the front of Andrew Miller we've been lucky to win so many of his starts. With his high 1.88WHIP and his high .315BAA, we are lucky to win, we are lucky that our bats have come up big during his starts. The fact of the matter is that the career of Andrew Miller has been a disappointment, it is not yet unsalvagable, but even with the Red Sox Andrew Miller's WHIP has been ABOVE his career average. That's not good. Next comes Wakefield, in Wakefield we've been unlucky, Wake has done little different than throughout his entire career, his WHIP has actually been lower, than his career by a few points, and his HR/9, is at 1.44, fairly high for Wakefield, but not much higher than 2005 when he posted a 4.15 ERA. Wakefield's ERA being north of five has been, statistically, bad luck. Brightside - we've won many games he's started.

    Erik Bedard - Bedard is here to replace either Wake or Miller, probably Miller because of the points I just went over, we've been luckey to win with Miller, we won't be lucky to win with Bedard. Fact, prior to the injury, Bedard put up an ERA of 2.25 in June and an ERA of 1.39 in May. Was this a product of the infamous Safeco pitching friendly park? No. Bedard's 2011 ERA for Safeco is... 4.53. That means Bedard has put together his best pitching performances away from the pitcher Safeco.

    Conclusion: This team will get through the regular season just fine with the pitching staff as is. Lester and Beckett will be the key to the post season as they will pitch 4 out of 7 games in a 7 game series, and 3 out of 5 in a 5 game. The Red Sox rotation has been inconsistent this year, but is hardly a poorly constructed one, and especially after the addition of Bedard, is not one that should be heavily worried about.
     
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    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    Yes, the pitching staff will get through the slog just fine.  Bedard was a good pick-up IMO in this way.  BUT, and i am not complaining (in fact i never do) this just reality, facing the post-season leaning on Lester/Beckett, while certainly comforting, is much less comforting than leaning on Lester/Beckett/Buchholz.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from emp9. Show emp9's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    I think the rotation will be fine, coupled-with a fine Bullpen. Aceves has been great, Pap the same ( He's no Mo- but he is who he is and that's better than most ), and Bard who hasn't given-up a run sinse, i don't know... late June? The pitching staff as a whole is formidable.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.:
    Yes, the pitching staff will get through the slog just fine.  Bedard was a good pick-up IMO in this way.  BUT, and i am not complaining (in fact i never do) this just reality, facing the post-season leaning on Lester/Beckett, while certainly comforting, is much less comforting than leaning on Lester/Beckett/Buchholz.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    I'd much rather have Buchholz in the rotation, his stress fracture isn't good for this team, however those who are under the impression that Lackey, Wake, Miller, and Bedard are some horrible combination that will doom this team are very inaccurate in their assessments.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    Obviously, we all wish that Buchholz would be returning soon.  Even without him, however, I like our chances.  While things are far from a lock, we are in good shape to make the postseason.  Once we get there, Lackey/Bedard/Wake can be worrisome, but anything can happen in the playoffs, and it's all hands on deck, including having our better pitchers pitch more than they would during the regular season.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.:
    Yes, the pitching staff will get through the slog just fine.  Bedard was a good pick-up IMO in this way.  BUT, and i am not complaining (in fact i never do) this just reality, facing the post-season leaning on Lester/Beckett, while certainly comforting, is much less comforting than leaning on Lester/Beckett/Buchholz.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    I agree spaceman,

    Bedard may not handle pressure well and has no PS experience which is the spotlight people say he doesn't enjoy.  Lackey might be a safer bet and thats also a concern.  Whether thats considered complaining is up to the author to decide.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.:
    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation. : I'd much rather have Buchholz in the rotation, his stress fracture isn't good for this team, however those who are under the impression that Lackey, Wake, Miller, and Bedard are some horrible combination that will doom this team are very inaccurate in their assessments.
    Posted by NUSoxFan


    No doubt NU.  I think the Bedard pickup bolsters the ro and they will get through the season swimmingly.  But having 3 vs. 2 dominant pitchers in the post season is a difference maker.  We shall see.  Maybe john Lackey makes everyone shut up this fall.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    Even with Bedard, the Sox will have a hard time winning the WS.  When Buch went down, the Sox chances of winning a WS greatly diminished.  If I were a handicapper, I'd have to say that the Phillies are the favorite. 

    They say hitting gets you to the post season but pitching wins the post season.  Assuming the Sox and Phillies make it to the WS, here are the potential match ups

    Roy Halladay 2.44   Vs Josh Becket 2.17
    Vance Worley 2.33 Vs John Lester 3.17
    Cliff Lee  3.14 Vs. Bedard 3.45
    Cole Hamels 2.61 Vs. Lackey 6.20/Wakefield 5.06/Miller 5.36

    With the first 2 games in Philly. 

    The Sox have to win the first 2 games of any post game series.   Worst case scenario for opposing teams, their #1 and #2 starters will face Beckett and Lester twice and if Beckett or Lester loses a game, the Sox will lose the series unless Wakefield goes on one of his streaks.

    Imagine - the hopes for a WS rests with Wakefield.


     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.:
    I think the rotation will be fine, coupled-with a fine Bullpen. Aceves has been great, Pap the same ( He's no Mo- but he is who he is and that's better than most ), and Bard who hasn't given-up a run sinse, i don't know... late June? The pitching staff as a whole is formidable.
    Posted by emp9


    I believe that the Red Sox should have made Aceves a starter and signed another pitcher for the bullpen.   It would have probably been easier to traded for another reliever, since their were so few starting pitchers available. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.:
    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation. : No doubt NU.  I think the Bedard pickup bolsters the ro and they will get through the season swimmingly.  But having 3 vs. 2 dominant pitchers in the post season is a difference maker.  We shall see.  Maybe john Lackey makes everyone shut up this fall.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    I think Lackey will do just that.  Everyone wants to forget what he did to the Sox and 2009.  He was pretty damn good.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from -The--Babe---------. Show -The--Babe---------'s posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.:
    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation. : I think Lackey will do just that.  Everyone wants to forget what he did to the Sox and 2009.  He was pretty damn good.

    Posted by jimdavis

    That was a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PawsoxPhil. Show PawsoxPhil's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    Excellent OP by NUSoxfan. Well stated, objective and fair.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    I'm hoping that the 2004 Derek Lowe came back in the body of 2011 John Lackey. Lowe was Lackey in 2004.

    Lowe in preceding years was pretty good but had a 5.42 ERA in the regular season of 2004. Then in the playoffs he had a 0.00 ERA in the ALDS, 3.18 W.S. in the ALCS and a 0.00 ERA in the W.S.

    I'm still holding out Lackey that can become the guy he was in L.A.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    Boston may have a bit advantage over the Phillies cuz Boston already know how to bat against Halladay and Lee when they were in the AL in the past.  So therefore, Boston should able to find a way to win the first two games at the Phillies!!


     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    Yazzer - it's happened before

    We have a great line up

    Air Tight Pen

    Veteran Bench

    2 Top Starters

    And a 3rd Starter who is no stranger to the post season

    Plus, Buck may still come back

    Plus maybe Bedard can pitch up to his potential

    Beckett and Lester can certainly be enough; but w/o a 3rd starter it just means a lot of pressure goes to everyone else.......but it's still possible
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PawsoxPhil. Show PawsoxPhil's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.:
    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation. : No doubt NU.  I think the Bedard pickup bolsters the ro and they will get through the season swimmingly.  But having 3 vs. 2 dominant pitchers in the post season is a difference maker.  We shall see.  Maybe john Lackey makes everyone shut up this fall.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    I like your positive attitude Spaceman. Our situation isn't that much different than the Yankees in starting pitching and they have been fortunate with the likes of Colon and Garcia. How many Yankee fans last winter really expected those two to do this well.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from SleeStack1. Show SleeStack1's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    So apparantly all teams should just stop playing since the Phillies are destined to win it all.  Good to know.  Should save fans a bunch of money now that there is no reason to attend a game.  I mean why bother?  Someone better alert the networks too.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from thewags. Show thewags's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.:
    reality check: yes, the SOX will make it to the playoffs; more than likely as a WC. however, if anyone really believes the beloved SOX are going to get to the WS with 2 pitchers, than pass me whatever you're smoking. also, if you really believe SLACKEY is going to turn it all around, please give me another hit.
    Posted by the_yazzer



    Oh ye, of little faith...
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.:
    Yes, the pitching staff will get through the slog just fine.  Bedard was a good pick-up IMO in this way.  BUT, and i am not complaining (in fact i never do) this just reality, facing the post-season leaning on Lester/Beckett, while certainly comforting, is much less comforting than leaning on Lester/Beckett/Buchholz.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    Buchholz has just been so-so. 60K's and 31 BB's in 84 IP, a 1.29 WHIP in 14 GS.
    Bedard's numbers are actually better, so I don't think losing him will hurt all that much.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from -The--Babe---------. Show -The--Babe---------'s posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.:
    Yazzer - it's happened before We have a great line up Air Tight Pen Veteran Bench 2 Top Starters And a 3rd Starter who is no stranger to the post season Plus, Buck may still come back Plus maybe Bedard can pitch up to his potential Beckett and Lester can certainly be enough; but w/o a 3rd starter it just means a lot of pressure goes to everyone else.......but it's still possible

    Posted by andrewmitch

    Buck coming back? Buck Williams maybe.........

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from the_yazzer. Show the_yazzer's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.:
    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation. : Oh ye, of little faith...
    Posted by thewags


    oh sox, of little pitching...
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.:
    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation. : Buchholz has just been so-so. 60K's and 31 BB's in 84 IP, a 1.29 WHIP in 14 GS. Bedard's numbers are actually better, so I don't think losing him will hurt all that much.
    Posted by Alibiike


    Yeah, I hope you are right.  Bedard is a good gamble in my eyes.  At worst, he gets hurt again or shrivels in the bright lights of Boston and Lackey is our thrid starter come playoff time (if we make it ... had to say that).  At best, he gets some wind in his sails finally pitching on a good club and he is a valuable rotation member.  We shall see.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from the_yazzer. Show the_yazzer's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.:
    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation. : Buck coming back? Buck Williams maybe.........
    Posted by -The--Babe---------


    or perhaps BUCK ROGERS.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from PawsoxPhil. Show PawsoxPhil's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    The significance of labeling starters 3-5 is only important in the post season when a team must choose who is number three. The offense will get us into the post season with decent  performances from the 3-5 starters and if need be no. 6.
     
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