What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    Quick note: All of my conjectures are about the regular season. Post Season is always, always, always, unpredictable.

    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.:
    reality check: yes, the SOX will make it to the playoffs; more than likely as a WC. however, if anyone really believes the beloved SOX are going to get to the WS with 2 pitchers, than pass me whatever you're smoking. also, if you really believe SLACKEY is going to turn it all around, please give me another hit.
    Posted by the_yazzer


    More and more I doubt if you are a Red Sox fan:

    The main competition of the Red Sox is the Yankees. Comparing their hitting is almost a wash. The Sox hitting is better, but the two are the best.

    Red Sox Rotation - ERA:
    1. Beckett - 2.17
    2. Lester - 3.17
    3. Lackey - 6.20
    4. Bedard - 3.45
    5. Wakefield -5.06
    6. Miller -5.36

    Yankees Rotation - ERA:
    1. CC Sabathia - 2.56
    2. AJ Burnett - 4.23
    3. Phil Hughes - 8.24
    4. Bartolo Colon - 3.30
    5. Freddy Garcia - 3.22
    6. Ivan Nova - 4.01

    As it sits these two rotations are incredibly similar. Phil Hughes and John Lackey were supppose to be integral parts of their rotations, they haven't been. Lackey's begun to turn the corner, Hughes has yet to. Colon and Garcia have been overachieving all year and are constantly being referred to as question marks against better teams, Wake and Miller are bigger question marks. Jon Lester of AJ Burnett is probably the biggest edge the Sox own. Right now the Sox are 2 games in front of the Yankees and have the best record in the AL, realistically saying we as fans should be settling for second by this point is not a fan speaking.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from -The--Babe---------. Show -The--Babe---------'s posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.:
    Quick note: All of my conjectures are about the regular season. Post Season is always, always, always, unpredictable. In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation. : More and more I doubt if you are a Red Sox fan: The main competition of the Red Sox is the Yankees. Comparing their hitting is almost a wash. The Sox hitting is better, but the two are the best. Red Sox Rotation - ERA: 1. Beckett - 2.17 2. Lester - 3.17 3. Lackey - 6.20 4. Bedard - 3.45 5. Wakefield -5.06 6. Miller -5.36 Yankees Rotation - ERA: 1. CC Sabathia - 2.56 2. AJ Burnett - 4.23 3. Phil Hughes - 8.24 4. Bartolo Colon - 3.30 5. Freddy Garcia - 3.22 6. Ivan Nova - 4.01 As it sits these two rotations are incredibly similar. Phil Hughes and John Lackey were supppose to be integral parts of their rotations, they haven't been. Lackey's begun to turn the corner, Hughes has yet to. Colon and Garcia have been overachieving all year and are constantly being referred to as question marks against better teams, Wake and Miller are bigger question marks. Jon Lester of AJ Burnett is probably the biggest edge the Sox own. Right now the Sox are 2 games in front of the Yankees and have the best record in the AL, realistically saying we as fans should be settling for second by this point is not a fan speaking.
    Posted by NUSoxFan

    It would probably look more like this......

    Red Sox Rotation - ERA:
    1. beckett - 2.17
    2. lester - 3.17
    3. lackey - 6.20
    4. bedard - 3.45
    5. wakefield -5.06
    6. miller -5.36

    Yankees Rotation - ERA:
    1. CC Sabathia - 2.56      
    2. 
    Bartolo Colon - 3.30 
    3. AJ Burnett - 4.23     
    4. Freddy Garcia - 3.22
    5. Ivan Nova - 4.01
    6. Phi Hughes - 8.24


     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PawsoxPhil. Show PawsoxPhil's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.:
    Quick note: All of my conjectures are about the regular season. Post Season is always, always, always, unpredictable. In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation. : More and more I doubt if you are a Red Sox fan: The main competition of the Red Sox is the Yankees. Comparing their hitting is almost a wash. The Sox hitting is better, but the two are the best. Red Sox Rotation - ERA: 1. Beckett - 2.17 2. Lester - 3.17 3. Lackey - 6.20 4. Bedard - 3.45 5. Wakefield -5.06 6. Miller -5.36 Yankees Rotation - ERA: 1. CC Sabathia - 2.56 2. AJ Burnett - 4.23 3. Phil Hughes - 8.24 4. Bartolo Colon - 3.30 5. Freddy Garcia - 3.22 6. Ivan Nova - 4.01 As it sits these two rotations are incredibly similar. Phil Hughes and John Lackey were supppose to be integral parts of their rotations, they haven't been. Lackey's begun to turn the corner, Hughes has yet to. Colon and Garcia have been overachieving all year and are constantly being referred to as question marks against better teams, Wake and Miller are bigger question marks. Jon Lester of AJ Burnett is probably the biggest edge the Sox own. Right now the Sox are 2 games in front of the Yankees and have the best record in the AL, realistically saying we as fans should be settling for second by this point is not a fan speaking.
    Posted by NUSoxFan


    Nice homework. Very informative and impartial. Thanks.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from yank06. Show yank06's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.:
    Boston may have a bit advantage over the Phillies cuz Boston already know how to bat against Halladay and Lee when they were in the AL in the past.  So therefore, Boston should able to find a way to win the first two games at the Phillies!!
    Posted by GoUconn13

    Aren't we jumping ahead a little bit?? The WS might be Atlanta vs Texas.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from promise4you. Show promise4you's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    I heard a rumor today they were extending the season for a few more months past August. But It's like trades only a rumor!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.:
    So apparantly all teams should just stop playing since the Phillies are destined to win it all.  Good to know.  Should save fans a bunch of money now that there is no reason to attend a game.  I mean why bother?  Someone better alert the networks too.
    Posted by SleeStack1

    And other American League teams should just stop playing because the Red Sox are destined to win the AL pennant.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.:
    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation. : It would probably look more like this...... Red Sox Rotation - ERA: 1. beckett - 2.17 2. lester - 3.17 3. lackey - 6.20 4. bedard - 3.45 5. wakefield -5.06 6. miller -5.36 Yankees Rotation - ERA: 1. CC Sabathia - 2.56       2.  Bartolo Colon - 3.30   3.  AJ Burnett - 4.23       4. Freddy Garcia - 3.22 5. Ivan Nova - 4.01 6. Phi Hughes - 8.24
    Posted by -The--Babe---------

    The numbering on that post was random, at this point I'm not even sure what the Sox rotation is numbered out as, sorry for any confusion.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from marstan. Show marstan's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    GUYS, DON'T COUNT YOUR CHICKENS ABOUT THE SOX GETTING
    INTO THE PLAYOFFS, JUST YET. THE ONLY THING THAT HELPS
    THEM IS THAT THE TIGERS, INDIANS AND WHITE SOX WILL
    BEAT EACH OTHER. BUT.....WHAT IS GOING TO HURT THE SOX\
    IS LACKEY'S TOTAL INABILITY TO HOLD GOOD HITTING TEAMS
    DOWN. HE JUST ALLOWS TOO MANY RUNS, EVEN WHEN GIVEN
    A LEAD, LIKE TONITE AGAINST THE INDIANS. HIS ARM IS SHOT,
    AND BY THE TIME THE OPPOSITION LINEUP SEES HIS STUFF
    THE SECOND GO AROUND, THEY FIGURE HIM OUT, AND HIS
    PITCHES LOSE VELOCITY. HIS CURVE BALL IS HITTABLE, AND
    THEY GET AROUND ON HIS FASTBALL. LACKEY WAS GOOD, I
    SAY WAS..NOW HE IS JUST A WORN VETERAN WITH A RAG ARM.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    Lackey cost over 20M in 2010. Just as tonight, there was nothing quality about Lackey. WAR is truly a joke. Lackey was signed to give up 4.5 ERA in 2010, and the garbage of this season.

    A lot of words in a thread that is little more than meaningless trite phrases like "keeps team in games".
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.:
    I'm hoping that the 2004 Derek Lowe came back in the body of 2011 John Lackey. Lowe was Lackey in 2004. Lowe in preceding years was pretty good but had a 5.42 ERA in the regular season of 2004. Then in the playoffs he had a 0.00 ERA in the ALDS, 3.18 W.S. in the ALCS and a 0.00 ERA in the W.S. I'm still holding out Lackey that can become the guy he was in L.A.
    Posted by royf19


    He is that guy he was in L.A. Same person. Same pitcher. Different ball park. Different division. Different climate. Different city.

    But the same pitcher.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    he is? He is a 3.01 ERA pitcher over 224 innings, who won 19 games in the 2007 season? Really? Same guy. This is like saying that Mike Cameron was the same guy who hit 4 homers in a game, but couldn't hit 2 in a month for the Sox.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    How in the hell can you continue to go on and on about ballpark, division, venue, and when does it actually fall on the pitcher to pitch well? It's all forgiven, John. You just pitch like manure in only 12 of the 16 parks, and you weren't really signed for 82 million to help the team, just to be "a 14-win pitcher." It's a complete crock. Tim Wakefield would have been unconditionally released pitching as poorly as Lackey this season..Unconditionally released. If Lackey earned 4 million this year, he would be sent to the minors. He is not reliable, end of story.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    But the Red Sox PR spin machine will give you the DL for Lackey account in about two more bad starts. They will say he's been pitching injured, and that the cortisone shots just weren't working. The real story is he is pitching about as badly as he's ever pitched in his career, and he's not reliable at Fenway, at Pawtucket, in a phone booth, etc..
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    And yes he was most certainly the ACE of the Angels staff in 2007 and arguably the team's best pitcher in their WS playoff run of 2002.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    This is your starting staff:

    Beckett
    Lester
    Bedard
    Wakefield
    and Heaven Help Us.

    I hope Bedard can pitch effectively, its worth the risk I believe.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    In Response to Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.:
    he is? He is a 3.01 ERA pitcher over 224 innings, who won 19 games in the 2007 season? Really? Same guy. This is like saying that Mike Cameron was the same guy who hit 4 homers in a game, but couldn't hit 2 in a month for the Sox.
    Posted by dannycater


    Way to take Lackey's best season with the Angel's and expect it year in and year out. In '08 Lackey won 12 games, in '09 Lackey won 11 games.

    Lackey was not signed by the Red Sox to be a 20 game winner, your expectations are completely flawed. A similar contract to John Lackey (as always cited) is AJ Burnett. Burnett won 19 games the season before the contract, however his largest total of wins prior to that year was 12. 80 million for a veteran pitcher no longer buys you a 20 game winner. Deal with it.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    NU, Lackey was injured in 08 and 09, made 51 starts. What reasonable person would have signed the guy to an 82 million dollar contract at age 31 if they didn't feel that he would be better than a No. 4 starter.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    I don't expect anything close to 2007, but wouldn't it be grand if his ERA was not 6.23 or 3.22 higher than 2007 when it was 3.01 over 224 IP.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    He's had 2 good starts out of the last 5, and he's 4-1 in those 5 starts. It must be because he's the winning pitcher, and not anything to do with the Sox offense.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    That's right, he was injured those two years, making him a bigger risk, resulting in an 80 million dollar contract. If he was healthy those years, maybe he makes more money. More than that, the previous two years ('05 and '06) Lackey pitched +200 innings and only won 13 and 14 games. Lackey was signed to be a number 3, and win 12-14 games a year.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    So you agree that he was signed to be at least at a No. 3...well, if 82 million for this guy is saying he's earned his money, then we will continue to disagree along with the other 95 percent of Sox Nation who realize Lackey has greatly underachieved.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    There's a reason why the contract is for 82 million dollars over several years. He earned his keep the first year (14 wins, +200 innings mission accomplished), he hasn't this one, however the season isn't over, Lackey has begun producing (tonight is a very convenient start for your argument of failure but I have confidence in Lackey).

    Players never fully "earn" 82 million dollars, but if they do what they were signed to do, they can "earn" their keep. Your expectations are too lofty, especially if you feel 2010 was a failure year.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    I don't think 2010 was a failure, in fact it was obviously a big thing for him to throw 215 IP. Did I want more than what he did in 2010? Yes. Do I want more now? Yes. Do I enjoy watching him allow 15 baserunners per 9 IP this year? Emphatically no.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    You're right, the season is far from over, but 2 months to go, and in 100 plus innings, it's been pretty much an ugly scene for him on the hill. It really is quite amazing his record is .500.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: What complainers don't want to accept. The state of the Red Sox rotation.

    Except, the Sox have the best offense in the AL...it does account for bad pitching. Andrew Miller had a 4-1 stretch, but his performance wasn't 4-1 material. Wakefield probably wouldn't have won 7 as well without a consistent offense. The hitting has been huge for this team....and that's why I have criticized the distortion thread for discounting the team's hitting worth despite the differences in batting average at home and road.
     
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