What do to with Cr-Awful

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from tompitt. Show tompitt's posts

    Re: What do to with Cr-Awful

      His basics are pretty pathetic (cut-off men, cannot or will not bunt to sacrifice or for hit when a slump <all year in '11>, does appear to be losing speed, has a lousy stnce and uncontrolled swing, etc.).  Managment ought to tell him he will learn to become a "moneyball" type guy more productive for the team/and correct deficiencies listed above, or he will wind up being a platooned number eight or nine hitter for the remainder of his career with the Sox, if he plays.  Another reason the Dead Sox need a new manager, who is more of leader (who demonstrates more thoughtful leadership, and doesn't try to be the multi-millionair players' buddy; example of last night, when Lackey was bad-mouthing Francona's move taking him out, Francona should have had some comment for Lackey upon reaching the dugout, or told him to go take a shower; how can players respect a manager who lets his players "beat on him" and teammates when he doesn't like the way things are going? ).  
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from GLeone. Show GLeone's posts

    Re: What do to with Cr-Awful

    In Response to Re: What do to with Cr-Awful:

    Wow!! OMG!!  I guess I forgot the lack patience of my "fellow fans".  I wish I had seen this forum back when we got Beckett in his first year.  Shall we dump him now??!!  Hell, DFA him today before he can pitch tonight 'cuz he was so bad in '06.  Why the heck do we still have Ellsbury, that whiner who stayed in AZ all of last year??  We should have traded Pedroia for a bucket of balls in April of '07 'cuz he was HORRIBLE for that month!!  A-Gon certainly hasn't broken the HR record this year so Theo was an absolute BONEHEAD for signing him!!  How many of you were ready to write of Papi two years ago?? 

    What is wrong with you people!!  I agree with SinceYaz; get the guy the support he needs and get him right.  He is not going to be the same threat he was on the TB carpet, but he is not a bust (for the life of his contract) because he's had a couple of bad months this year!  Am I disappointed he isn't leading the league in something??  Yes!  Am I ready to back the bus over him, no way!  I couldn't believe the way Ellsbury got barbequed last year and now we are doing it to Crawford.  Beckett seems to have alternate good and bad years, yet why did we sign him to an extention last year???  Because of what (some) knew he could do this year.  

    I was a good athlete in high school, but not even close to professional level, which evidently takes a razor's edge to be that good.  Look at Lackey!  Yah, he sucks this year, but I am not surprised to hear that he has filed for divorce (right or wrong), 'cuz that kind of mental anguish (forget the reason) is going to take away that edge.  

    Can we (PLEASE) give our guys some support?!?!?  Even Babe Ruth had sub-par years (pick your guy - Teddy BG?).  Am I happy with all our players and how they have performed this year??  NO.  Personally, I would complain about Youk (and have at games), but because he busts his but, those days HE sucks are OK...?? Should we try to get a better GM who will only make perfect signings?  Yah, right?!?  Who? You?

    When I line up our team with others for 2012, I am happy with what we have.  Are there holes? Yes.  But on the whole, we will compete for the WS again next year.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: What do to with Cr-Awful

    Few thoughts:

    No amount of mouth wash will ever make that contract smell sweet. The career averages weren't there to back up that level of commitment.

    But moving on after one season is folly. The player will likely rebound and those that screamed for him to dumped as sunk cost would either roast the orgainization for doing so OR claim that Crawford just could not play in this market.

    It is a stunningly bad year on almost any measure magnified by the fact that fans tended to put great emphasis on his big moments against us and bought the media hype, which always exceeded the play on the field over 162.


     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: What do to with Cr-Awful

    no way Crawford goes anywhere with that King's ransom salary and no way he continues to stink it up over 7 years - he is too good a player for that (i could care less what he is being paid...they are all overpaid)
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: What do to with Cr-Awful

    Well, I would have said there's no way the Jays could unload the last 4 years of Vernon Wells' contract at 20 million a year, but they did...
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: What do to with Cr-Awful

    In Response to Re: What do to with Cr-Awful:
    [QUOTE]Crawford certainly gets the benefit of one more year here before we should really roast him (should he still be struggling). That said if you look at his numbers over the years they don't warrant the salary - and that is Theo's fault not Carl's. Truth is we really could use his supposed skills on this team - it would be nice if he could provide them.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    Why should he get the benefit of the doubt?  This board of 'fans' buries all the RS players.

    Papi should've been gone two years ago.
    Pedroia is too short to play BB.
    Ellsbury is the Tinman.
    Beckett and Paps have been figured out.

    So on and so on.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: What do to with Cr-Awful

    In Response to Re: What do to with Cr-Awful:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do to with Cr-Awful : Wow!! OMG!!  I guess I forgot the lack patience of my "fellow fans".  I wish I had seen this forum back when we got Beckett in his first year.  Shall we dump him now??!!  Hell, DFA him today before he can pitch tonight 'cuz he was so bad in '06.  Why the heck do we still have Ellsbury, that whiner who stayed in AZ all of last year??  We should have traded Pedroia for a bucket of balls in April of '07 'cuz he was HORRIBLE for that month!!  A-Gon certainly hasn't broken the HR record this year so Theo was an absolute BONEHEAD for signing him!!  How many of you were ready to write of Papi two years ago??  What is wrong with you people!!  I agree with SinceYaz; get the guy the support he needs and get him right.  He is not going to be the same threat he was on the TB carpet, but he is not a bust (for the life of his contract) because he's had a couple of bad months this year!  Am I disappointed he isn't leading the league in something??  Yes!  Am I ready to back the bus over him, no way!  I couldn't believe the way Ellsbury got barbequed last year and now we are doing it to Crawford.  Beckett seems to have alternate good and bad years, yet why did we sign him to an extention last year???  Because of what (some) knew he could do this year.   I was a good athlete in high school, but not even close to professional level, which evidently takes a razor's edge to be that good.  Look at Lackey!  Yah, he sucks this year, but I am not surprised to hear that he has filed for divorce (right or wrong), 'cuz that kind of mental anguish (forget the reason) is going to take away that edge.   Can we (PLEASE) give our guys some support?!?!?  Even Babe Ruth had sub-par years (pick your guy - Teddy BG?).  Am I happy with all our players and how they have performed this year??  NO.  Personally, I would complain about Youk (and have at games), but because he busts his but, those days HE sucks are OK...?? Should we try to get a better GM who will only make perfect signings?  Yah, right?!?  Who? You? When I line up our team with others for 2012, I am happy with what we have.  Are there holes? Yes.  But on the whole, we will compete for the WS again next year.
    Posted by GLeone[/QUOTE]

    OK, I got to call you out on this post. Ted Williams never had a bad year in his prime. He didn't have a bad year until 1959 when he was 40.

    Cool

    Otherwise, great post.


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: What do to with Cr-Awful

    In Response to Re: What do to with Cr-Awful:
    In Response to Re: What do to with Cr-Awful : Even against the last 4 years, his performance since May 1 is not far removed from the average.  OBP is really the only difference - move him into the one or two slot, and he'll have Pedroia / Ortiz / Gonzalez for protection instead of Scutaro & Salty - you'll see a bump in both average and OBP in a hurry.
    Posted by slomag


    Common sense alert!!!

    Just to put some numbers to it, since May 23, CC has a .285/.320/..478/.797.  That's more or less what should be expected.  Throw out the two outliers over the past 6 years, and he's been been between .800 and .820.  He needs a little more discipline, but he should be okay.  I didn't like the signing, but I think he'll be okay.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: What do to with Cr-Awful

    In Response to Re: What do to with Cr-Awful:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do to with Cr-Awful : OK, I got to call you out on this post. Ted Williams never had a bad year in his prime. He didn't have a bad year until 1959 when he was 40. Otherwise, great post.
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]

    Actually, he was only hitting .235 after his first 19 games.

    That's when Andrew Mitch first posted that he was too skinny to play pro ball.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What do to with Cr-Awful

    1) The issue of giving him another year to "redeem himself": if he stinks again next year, he will have zero trade value.

    2) The issue of him being close to his recnet numbers since May 1st: one, it's false, and two, even if he reaches those recent year avg. numbers for the next 6 years, his deal is still about $50M too high and will criplle us in future money decisions (like Papelbon, Ellsbury, etc...)

    3) As for giving our guy "support". I always cheer for our guys. I never boo. I don't think any players read this thread. We are kidding ourselves if we think otherwise. Nothing we say here will lessen Crawford's confidence one iota.

    4) There are several teams that would want Crawford on their team this winter. He is stilla very good player and young enough to have some faith. The issue is the money. I know I may be in the minority who thinks he is overpaid by $50M, but there are several teams that can afford to take him if...
    A) We pay part of his contract.
    B) We take on a high salary player from their team to offset part of his cost)
    C) All of the above.

    Please don't quote me as saying I am for some of the suggestions I will mention here. I am merely providing examples of possible frameworks for trades that both teams might consider. I don't like almost any of these players, but the money saved would allow us to keep our stars or sign others for years to come.

    to Cubs: Crawford ($122M/6) and a prospect
    for Soriano ($54M/3) & Zambrano ($19.25M/1)
    (We save about $60M, and maybe gain some help.)

    to Mets: Crawford ($122M/6), Renaudo, Iglesias (they will lose Reyes) & more...
    for J. Santana ($55M/2 including 3rd year buyout) & Jason Bay ($35M incl, $3M 3rd year buyout).  (Maybe we could even trade Youk to Cincy for some youth ues them to try and pry David Wright ($31M/2) from the Mets as well. Or move Youk to DH and let Papi walk.)

    to Angels: Crawford ($122M/6) & Lowrie.
    for V. Wells ($63M/3) & Tori Hunter ($18M/1) Be nice to pry Harden or Santana, but it ain't gonna happen.

    Texas? No matches (Young or Beltre...I don't think so). They may take on most of his salary for prospects or their worst OF'er.

    Blue Jays? Hmm....

    Nats? Werth? (about $14m less than Cc gets over the next 6 years)
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Docqwerty. Show Docqwerty's posts

    Re: What do to with Cr-Awful

    Cross our collective fingers and hope he comes up big time in the post season, { providing we make it.}

    Ditto for next year. I don't think CC can be moved.

    Theos Waterloo? That's very possible.

           Doc
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: What do to with Cr-Awful

    Crawford has to go.  he will be the most hated player in Sox history if we bring him back. 


     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: What do to with Cr-Awful

    In Response to Re: What do to with Cr-Awful:
    [QUOTE]Cross our collective fingers and hope he comes up big time in the post season, { providing we make it.} Ditto for next year. I don't think CC can be moved. Theos Waterloo? That's very possible.        Doc
    Posted by Docqwerty[/QUOTE]

    Post Season?  I am not following you here?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from plinny. Show plinny's posts

    Re: What do to with Cr-Awful

    It was always about playing keep away from the Yankees. Not to mention that they have tried to make him into a different player (no bunting, please). Oh, and let's stick him in the shortest left field in the majors.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: What do to with Cr-Awful

    I don't understand all the "why play him in LF in Boston because he can cover more ground elsehwere" comments???

    Do you really want Carl "The Butcher" Crawford COVERING MORE GROUND?!???
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Guvnor. Show Guvnor's posts

    Re: What do to with Cr-Awful

    theo made the cardinal but often repeated error of recruiting a players for what he did against us and to keep him away from the stanks.

    crawford killed us because playing for the rays against us he only ever really faced one quality leftie, and when on base destroyed our pathetic defence against the running game.

    It was obvious that we needed a right handed power hitting outfielder, to balance the speed of ells and the drew starting in right, and given that our 2 best outfield prosepcts both lefties. The decision to go with cameron was disastrous.

    worse still , he has set a crazy market for what we will have to come up with to keep ells.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: What do to with Cr-Awful

    Is there a player in all of baseball who can't run on the Sox catchers at will?

    Has it not be the case for 3 or 4 years now?

    And what has the team with 3rd highest payroll in baseball done to address it?  Not one single thing. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ScreamingBreeze. Show ScreamingBreeze's posts

    Re: What do to with Cr-Awful

    In Response to What do to with Cr-Awful: Acquiring Crawford wouldn't have been a bad move if Theo knew what he was buying.  Crawford showed some ability to hit with the Rays, but his essence was speed.  Not bad stuff.  But the objective obviously wasn't to use him as a pinch runner/utility man, and the price tag precluded such limited playing time.  The RS should have realized, because Theo should have done/communicated the results of due diligence, which results would have shown that throughout his career, Crawford has never proven to be a good or even decent bunter, and his arm is weak.  Speed without bunting ability is compromised, and a team with serious and supposedly realistic division-winning expectations, can't have an everyday outfielder that doesn't have a gun.  His price tag was too high.  And no, no one will pick that contract up with such meager production backing it.

    A thought, a comparison - a contemplative observation:  Brett Gardner of Yankee fame - also a hyper-fast left fielder, demonstrated near zero bunting skills last year.  So the Yanks tought him how, and today, he's one of the most fearsome bunters in the game, which capitalizes of course, on his speed.  And Gardner has a serious arm.  A canon, no, but guys won't take chances against him.

    Let's hope the RS don't play Crawford too long as a left field starter, as they did with Damon as a center field starter.  Neither Crawford nor Damon have strong arms.

    Teach Crawford to bunt, use him as a pinch runner and to give another outfielder occasional rest.  The money's spent - it ain't coming back; make the best of it.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: What do to with Cr-Awful

    Crawford will forever remain overpaid but that does not mean he cannot be an all*star next year...... 

    I will tell you what has gotten this team into the mess of Drew/Lackey/Crawford it's being "married to stats." The FO does not remember how to evaluate a player by gut and common sense.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: What do to with Cr-Awful

    Making Crawful a utility player I suppose is an option but I prefer to have my bench players be able to field and to field multi positions

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from My Dads Brick. Show My Dads Brick's posts

    Re: What do to with Cr-Awful

    In Response to What do to with Cr-Awful:
    [QUOTE]We could talk for days about how he can't get on base, he can't get a bunt down, can't steal a bag like he used to, is a butcher in the field and can't hit the cut off man but.....let's try and stay productive...... Would Sox ownership look at him as a sunk cost and try and dump him? Turn his contract and $50 Million over to whoever will want him?  Is he even worth 6/75? Could Crawful be Theo's Waterloo? PS Did I mention that I actually welcomed Drew back last night? 
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    They may be able to trade him to the Los Angeles Angels, but why would they want Crawford when they have both Bourjos and Trout. The Red Sox would have to eat $45-55M worth of the contract.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: What do to with Cr-Awful

    I would think Crawford and $50 million dollars to the Angels for Vernon Wells.

    And I would do that.  We could put Wells in RF and have some RH pop in the line up.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrh1194. Show jrh1194's posts

    Re: What do to with Cr-Awful

    In Response to Re: What do to with Cr-Awful:
    [QUOTE]I would think Crawford and $50 million dollars to the Angels for Vernon Wells. And I would do that.  We could put Wells in RF and have some RH pop in the line up.
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    It would be nice for that to happen, but....Why would the Angels (or any other team) ever want Crawford???.  The best opportunity would be if Theo becomes the Cubs GM, then we could trade Crawford to the Cubs. No other GM would actually want him.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: What do to with Cr-Awful

    In Response to Re: What do to with Cr-Awful:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do to with Cr-Awful : It would be nice for that to happen, but....Why would the Angels (or any other team) ever want Crawford???.  The best opportunity would be if Theo becomes the Cubs GM, then we could trade Crawford to the Cubs. No other GM would actually want him.
    Posted by jrh1194[/QUOTE]

    6 years @ 72 million for Crawford vs 3 years/63 million for Wells = a 9 million dollar gamble to get a guy who could fill a position for you for 3 additional years.....
     
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