What do you miss about Wakefield?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What do you miss about Wakefield?

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Wake pitched half his games in Fenway and many more than his share vs tough hitting teams.

    His career ERA+ is 106.

    Wake's QS% from 2001 to 2009:

    71%

    73%

    55%

    47%

    52%

    57%

    48% (After this year,  softy first called for Wake's booting)

    60%

    57%

     




    It's funny that we recognize the Fenway factor for hitters but rarely allow that to be an issue with pitchers.  Odd thinking to me, since IF A HITTER TENDS TO HIT BETTER IN FENWAY, the natural recipient of that additional assault is, by nature of the issue even in physics, the PITCHER.

    One of the main reasons we signed Napoli was the Fenway factor ... One of the main reasons Freddy Lynn became a good but not great hitter was he was traded away from Fenway.  We could go on and on .. but why?  Your point of Wake pitching in Fenway for half of his starts is VERY well made.

    [/QUOTE]

    ERA+ reflects park adjustments, so his career 106 number is excellent for a 4-6th slot starter (maybe the best ever).

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: What do you miss about Wakefield?

    I miss him pitching consistently better than your man Dice K and your complete refusal to hold the two to the same standard. 

    I don't miss your classless namecalling of someone who was more successful at his profession than likely you are at yours. 

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: What do you miss about Wakefield?

    Yup    Terps


        lost


    :o)

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What do you miss about Wakefield?

    Here's why soty hates Wake more than other Sox players he hates as well.

    After 2007, softy called for Wake to retire, despite his 17 wins. His 4.2 playoff inning sample size was too overwhelming for him to handle.

    He got seriously embarrased by Wake's next 50 starts, so the hatred got more and more embedded to the point of clownish absurdity.

    Here's a look at those 50 starts from 2008 to the end of 9/21/2009:

    ERs in starts 

                0  1  2  3  4  5  6+

    2008   5  5  4  8  2  1  5

    2009   2  3  3  4  3  3  1

    Total:  7  8  7  12 5  4  6

    In 50 starts, Wake had 6 terrible starts of 6+ ERs. Two of his 5 ER games, he went 8 innings, so maybe count the other 2 as terrible. That makes 8 terrible games.

    In 50 starts, Wake had those two bad, but not terrible games (5 ERs in 8 IP) and 5 games with 4 ERs allowed (1 in 7 IP). Let's call it 7 bad but not terrible games (winnable).

    In 50 starts, he had 19 starts with 2-3 ERs. Let's call these decent to good.

    In 50 starts, he had 15 starts with 0-1 ERS. Let's call these very good to excellent.

    Here' the breakdown that drove softy to his bashfest breakdown:

    30% Very good to Excellent starts.

    38% Decent to Good starts.

    14% Bad but maybe winnable games.

    16% Terrible games.

    In short, 68% were decent/good to excellent starts and 32% bad to terrible.

    This from a number 4-5 starter in those seasons. Tito later mentioned how they had wanted to rest Wake during the 2008 season, but he was pitching so well at the time and we needed wins, that he kept him going for 30 starts.

    From May 24th to July 19th, Wake started 9 games letting up just 15 ERs.

    Wake was among the AL leaders in WHIP in 2008 (6th at 1.18) and made the allstar game in 2009 (the team went 13-4 in his pre-injury starts). This enraged softy. Instead of complementing a player that surprised him, he nitpicked and small sample sized him to death.

    Then, as bad as 2010 and 2011 seemed, here's breakdown of his starts...

    (Remember he was jerked from the pen to starter 10 times in 2010 and 7 times in 2011.)

      ERs    0  1  2  3  4  5  6+

    2010:  1  1  3  4  2  2  5

    2011:  1  3  2  7  5  3  2  (* two of 4 Er games in 8 IP & 7.1IP)

    Total:  2  4  5  11 7  5  7

    41 starts:

    7  terrible  17%

    10 bad but winnable 24%

    18 decent to good  44%

    6 very good to excellent 15%

    In short, 41% bad to terrible (many of which were still winnable)/59% decent to excellent. This as a 6th starter (maybe even 7th if you count all the injuries and trades for guys like Bedard mid-season).

     

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: What do you miss about Wakefield?

    Outstanding research, Moon

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: What do you miss about Wakefield?

    I rarely -- if ever now -- get involved in a discussion with softy, chiefly because he doesn't know what the word discussion means. But in this case, I'll answer the question.

    What do I miss about Wakefield?

    Watching him pitch when he's on one of those streaks where he's unhittable. Watching batters take hacks and look silly because of the way the knuckleball is dancing was great entertainment.

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: What do you miss about Wakefield?

    In response to BurritoT-'s comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to BurritoT-'s comment:

     

    Exactly! As he got his rear handed to him start after start and saying "we deserved" to see him win #200 I gave up on him. I had always supported him until those slew of horrid starts in pursuit of #200 helped to bring about the ultimate demise to the team. It was during this "streak" the team started to slip

    To be fair, only part of that debacle was his-the part where he actually verbalized his view about what "the fans deserved" and IMO the fact that he didn't tell his manager that he wanted NOT to start any more because he was hurting the team in his quest for #200. Francona also shares some blame for that monumental choke job by sending Wakefield back out there time after time, loss after loss, so that his personal goal could be achieved, no matter how much it hurt the team. Before Wakefield uttered that selfish statement I had nothing but respect for the man, but after that I realized that, in fact, he was more about personal goals than about his team winning games.

    gee-wiz I wasn't saying it was all his fault, I was saying that streak of losses he tossed, his self-serving statement, and the managers illogical desire to keep pitching him was representative to why the team was falling apart in so many other ways. 

     




     



    Go read mine or moonie's post about Wake's starts from after win No. 199 earlier in this thread. The fact is, Francona didn't keep throwing him out there. The first four starts were certainly good enough to keep pitching him Wake then had three bad starts, and that's when Francona pulled him for a start. He had a good relief appearance 4 IP, 0 ER then got another start, which is when he got win No. 200.

    And , remember, there weren't any other arms. Everyone else stunk too or was hurt. Francona really didn't have a choice.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: What do you miss about Wakefield?

    Wow, I've never seen a player get inside someone's head like this.

    I don't remember the last time I saw Wakefield play, and Softlaw is still completely obsessed with  him.

    Am I the only one that thinks that Softlaw is going down the Mark Chapman path?  I'm serious.  This is more than just a little weird.

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kingface12. Show Kingface12's posts

    Re: What do you miss about Wakefield?

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    I miss watching him cover first.



    Ok.....I'm not going to lie.....even though I have no idea why somebody would spend so much time explaining why they hate a 4-5 pitcher in the rotation that gave a lot of good years. (if it's for the 200 win thing....thats just sad.............)  I do have to admit......the "I miss watching him cover first" thing made me laugh........

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What do you miss about Wakefield?

    In response to BurritoT-'s comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to BurritoT-'s comment:

     

    Exactly! As he got his rear handed to him start after start and saying "we deserved" to see him win #200 I gave up on him. I had always supported him until those slew of horrid starts in pursuit of #200 helped to bring about the ultimate demise to the team. It was during this "streak" the team started to slip

    To be fair, only part of that debacle was his-the part where he actually verbalized his view about what "the fans deserved" and IMO the fact that he didn't tell his manager that he wanted NOT to start any more because he was hurting the team in his quest for #200. Francona also shares some blame for that monumental choke job by sending Wakefield back out there time after time, loss after loss, so that his personal goal could be achieved, no matter how much it hurt the team. Before Wakefield uttered that selfish statement I had nothing but respect for the man, but after that I realized that, in fact, he was more about personal goals than about his team winning games.

    gee-wiz I wasn't saying it was all his fault, I was saying that streak of losses he tossed, his self-serving statement, and the managers illogical desire to keep pitching him was representative to why the team was falling apart in so many other ways. 

     




     



    His first 4 starts after the 199th win were decent enough to get a win. I don't understand why Tito should have sat him or why Wake should have asked to be sat down. His 4 starts right before 200 were not great, but I suppose after 3 bad starts, maybe Tito or Wake might have thought about sitting, but what MLB pitcher would ask to be sat down after 3 bad starts in a row?

    Wake actually lowered his ERA from after win 199 to the game before 200. (5.15 on 7/24 and 5.03 on 9/12.

    This is revisionist history.

    The other thing to think about was that Wake was not our worst starter at that time, so if we did have a better pitcher ready to start, which we didn't anyways, they should have started for Lackey or Miller. Have a look see...

    Lackey on 7/24/11  6.28 ERA (Where's the equal outrage for this guy?)

    Date   IP   H  ER  BB

    7/27  5.2  11  3  1

    8/1    6.2    8  5  0

    8/6    6.0    6  3  2

    8/12  6.0  10  4  2

    8/17  6.2    6  4  3

    8/23  6.2    7  4  3

    8/30  7.0    5  4  4

    9/4    5.0    8  6  3

    9/9    3.0    5  5  3

    No starts with less than 3 ERs allowed. 8 of 10 starts with $ ERs or more. Was this better than Wake?

    Here's more...

    Andrew Miller: 5.45 ERA on 7/24, then...

    3.2  9  5  2

    5.2 10 3  1

    went to pen, then returned to start...

    5.1  3  1  2

    6.1  3  0  2

    1.1  5  6  4

    5.0  8  5  2

    That's 6 GS  27.1 IP/ 38H/13 BB and 20 ER  (6.59 ERA) Why should Miller have kept pitching why we sat Wake?

    Want more? This is the guy we tried when Miller and others were out of the rotation.

    Weiland: 7.66 ERA  1.662 WHIP

    Dice-K:   5.30 ERA  1.473 WHIP, but he was on the DL during Wake's 199 to 200th win.

    Come on guys, the bottom of our rotation stunk. Wake was no worse and was actually better than the rest. If anyone should have been pulled, it should have been Lackey, Miller, or Weiland NOT WAKE!

    You guys want to rewrite history without having a clear picture of what was going on at the time. 

    Context guys- context!

     

     

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: What do you miss about Wakefield?

    In response to softlaw2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I am responsible for getting rid of bum that was loved almost as much as Ellsbury.

    /QUOTE]

    Everyone knows that JH, LL, TW, Theo, and Tito got up every morning and rushed to Boston.com and searched for Stiffy's comments.  

      ::eye roll:

    Ego much?

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What do you miss about Wakefield?

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    According to moonshemp, Wastefield should have received that 2M contract offer he was begging for, in 2012.

    I am responsible for getting rid of bum that was loved almost as much as Ellsbury. He, in fact, was the distraction that caused the 2011 all-time greatest collapse.

    I lobbied to kick him to the curb at the end of 2010. I was correct. His ERA of 5 plus was embarrassing because his entire overrated career never reflected all those wild goofball pitches that were falsely scored "passed balls".  He was nothing but a big sideshow for years.

    The following poster sums it up best:

    what do I miss about Wakefield"

     

             Nothing.

            On the mound he was an accident waiting to happen.

            And it usually did.



    More lies.

    You wanted Wake "kicked to the curb" after 2007. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What do you miss about Wakefield?

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    Come on guys, the bottom of our rotation stunk. Wake was no worse and was actually better than the rest. If anyone should have been pulled, it should have been Lackey, Miller, or Weiland NOT WAKE!

    No, it should have been Wastefield. His wild pitches scored as past balls is what exposes him for the bum he was for most of his career.

    The time needed to go into the younger players, which is a process that takes place over more than one season. Wastefield was worse, which is why they finally decided to toss him the dumpster. No one wanted the guy, in MLB, for years. His market value was a negative number.



    More like PBs scored as WPs.

    Also, countless 3rd strike PBs.

    Get a clue.

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: What do you miss about Wakefield?

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    I was patient with the fat Red Sox mascot. I never said to kick him out of MLB until the end of 2010. He was an embarrassment, waddling over to cover 1st.

    Countless 3rd strike wild pitches. More like wild pitches scored as passed balls. Get a grip.




    That doesn't explain why you're still obsessed with him. Are we going to have to listen to you whine like this about Ellsbury after he leaves too?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: What do you miss about Wakefield?

     

    I miss Wakefield and I am happy that he won his 200th game as a Red Sox (regardless of how many times it took him).  I am also happy that he won a ring in 2004 after giving up Boone's homer in 2003. 

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: What do you miss about Wakefield?

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    I was patient with the fat Red Sox mascot. I never said to kick him out of MLB until the end of 2010. He was an embarrassment, waddling over to cover 1st.

    Countless 3rd strike wild pitches. More like wild pitches scored as passed balls. Get a grip.



    So you were okay with him from 1992-2010, but it was his 7-8 record in 2011 that melted you rmind into Swiss Cheese?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: What do you miss about Wakefield?

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    Wastefield didn't retire, he was kicked to the curb, begging all the way.

    Softy, 

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I'm putting you back on the IGNORE option. Your posts are obnoxious, pointless, boring, idiotic, a waste of the space they are printed on, inane, insane, trollish, lack any coherence, etc, etc, etc. OH THE SWEET PEACE AND QUIET WITH NO MORE SOFTY TO READ. SUCH BLISS !! 

    Goodbye forever HEAD TROLL !!

    Extremely Sarcastic Hetch

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: What do you miss about Wakefield?

    The 70 mph Fast Ball

     

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