What do you think is driving the re-birth of the "Age of the Pitcher"?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    What do you think is driving the re-birth of the "Age of the Pitcher"?

    Is it steroids?

    I say this is a HUGE part of it.  The homerun numbers simply prove it.  The thing I like to point out about the steroid era has to do specifically with Fenway Park.  Remember how many home runs were hit dead center?  Down the line in right?  Over the bullpens?  You hardly ever see that anymore.  The league is finally cleaned up, and pitching is back.

    Are teams just more focused on pitching?

    This is likely.  It has been Billy Beane's philosophy to draft pitchers early and hope that a few of them pan out.  1 great pitcher can impact a team more than 1 great hitter.  Maybe more teams are picking up this philosophy.

    Are the hitters just not as good?

    Possibly?  I feel like the league overall is much younger so maybe we have to wait a few years to see a majority of these players in their primes.

    What do you think is driving the new "Age of the Pitcher"?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What do you think is driving the re-birth of the "Age of the Pitcher"?

    4) Larger stike zone
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: What do you think is driving the re-birth of the "Age of the Pitcher"?

    In Response to Re: What do you think is driving the re-birth of the "Age of the Pitcher"?:
    [QUOTE]4) Larger stike zone
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Good point.  Do you think that's a driver?  I haven't noticed it simply because it's probably been a gradual change.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: What do you think is driving the re-birth of the "Age of the Pitcher"?

    Steroids.  RPG is down about 16% since 2004.  It went down 5% in 2005, 8% in 2010 and 5% so far this year.

    Another reason might also be the heightened awareness of defense.  The idea that you'll use anyone that can hit is passe.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: What do you think is driving the re-birth of the "Age of the Pitcher"?

    when heads stop growing, the homers will fall off
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What do you think is driving the re-birth of the "Age of the Pitcher"?

    Good point.  Do you think that's a driver?  I haven't noticed it simply because it's probably been a gradual change.

    I put #4 because I think it is but one of at least 4 reasons for the better pitching or the decline of the hitters, whichever way you want to look at it. (MLB wants short games. It's hard to have 10-9 games at 2 Hrs 30 mins.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: What do you think is driving the re-birth of the "Age of the Pitcher"?




    Raise the mound!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What do you think is driving the re-birth of the "Age of the Pitcher"?

    Cork the bats!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    Re: What do you think is driving the re-birth of the "Age of the Pitcher"?

    So if people think so many hitters were using steroids, why wouldn't they think that pitchers were also using them??

    This is one part of the whole steroid argument I don't understand.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: What do you think is driving the re-birth of the "Age of the Pitcher"?

    I wouldn't point directly at steroids.

    What I would say is , it is cyclical.

    We went through an era of big sluggers and lousy pitchers. Many young, talented kids and their coaches figured there was a need for pitching in the big leagues.

    High school, college and minor league coches started stressing pitching and VOILA...they started producing more good young pitchers.

    Now there is a shortage of sluggers.

    It is a viscious cycle.

    This happened on hockey too. When the 80's brought the era of the big scorers....the 90's brough the era of trapping, defense minded strategy and "checkers" became in demand. Now you have an era of mostly low scoring forwards and eventually it will cycle back.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pelosireturns. Show pelosireturns's posts

    Re: What do you think is driving the re-birth of the "Age of the Pitcher"?

    Better pitching?  Bigger strike zones?  Fewer PEDs?  I don't know what it is, but take a look at this:

    Below are the projections for the top NL home-run hitters this season.   Note that no one in the NL is on pace for more than 41 HRs, there are just 3 players on pace for 40 HRs, only 7 players on pace for 35 or more HRs and 11 players on pace for more than 28 HRs.

    Taking into account that there are twice as many teams in the NL in 2011 than there were teams in the AL in 1960, this HR list reminds me a lot of the AL Home Runs list in 1960 , an era long before the PED era.


    1.Braun: 41 HRs
    2. Soriano: 41 HRs (40.5 rounded up)
    3. Tulowitzki: 40 HRs (39.6 rounded up)
    4. Bruce: 38 HRs
    5. Berkman: 37 HRs
    6, Stanton: 36 HRs
    7. R. Howard: 35 HRs
    8. Fielder: 34 HRs
    9. Kemp: 34 HRs
    10. C, Young: 32 HRs
    11. J. Upton: 32 HRs
    T. 12. Ludwick: 28 HRs
    T. 12. Werth: 28 HRs
    T. 12. A, McCutchen: 28 HRs
    T. 12. Beltran: 28 HRs
    16. G. Sanchez: 25 HRs
    T. 17. I. Davis: 25 HRs (on the DL so will fall off the pace)
    T, 17. Ryan Robers: 25 HRs


    Here is that AL home run list from 1960

    Home Runs  
    1.www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mantlmi01.shtml" title="Mickey Mantle">Mantle (NYY) 40
    2.www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/marisro01.shtml" title="Roger Maris">Maris (NYY) 39
    3.www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lemonji01.shtml" title="Jim Lemon">Lemon (WSH) 38
    4.www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/colavro01.shtml" title="Rocky Colavito">Colavito (DET) 35
    5.www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/killeha01.shtml" title="Harmon Killebrew">Killebrew (WSH) 31
    6.www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/willite01.shtml" title="Ted Williams">Williams (BOS) 29
    7.www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sievero01.shtml" title="Roy Sievers">Sievers (CHW) 28
    8.www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/skowrbi01.shtml" title="Bill Skowron">Skowron (NYY) 26
    9.www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maxwech01.shtml" title="Charlie Maxwell">Maxwell (DET) 24
    10.www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hansero02.shtml" title="Ron Hansen">Hansen (BAL) 22

    This was an era on which only three players, Mantle, Maris, and Mays hit 50 or more HRs, while the NL has 7 players projected for 35 or more HRs. I think it would be great to go back to an era like that, where 50 HRs were extremely special and very rare, 40 HRs meant you were a big-time slugger, 30 HRs meant you were among the best HR hitters and 20-29 HRs meant you had good HR power.  Back then, the AL parks were on the whole, much bigger than today's parks, especially in left center, center and right center, but I guess there are a lot of other differences, too, many which help HRs today (e.,g., smaller strike zone, lower mounds) and some of which might hurt HRs (e.g., often facing fresh relievers from the 6th or 7th inning on and often facing a reliever who is throwing gas)

    Note: The projected AL HR list in 2011 looks very different than the NL one for 2011.

    Here is the top of the list:
    1. Bautista: 63
    2. Granderson: 58 (57.6 rounded up)
    3. Teixeira: 43

    but goes down very quickly, with only 3 AL players with a projection of 35 or more HRs.  The 2011 AL list is a bit deeper than the 2011 NL List, though, with 20 players in 14 teams projected to have 25 or more HRs while the NL has 19 players in 16 teams projected to have 25 or more HRs.  In 1960, the AL had 8 players in 8 teams with 25 or more HRs.

    4. Beltre: 34
    5. Konerko: 34
    6. Asr. Cabrera: 33
    T. 7. A. Rodriguez: 32
    T. 7. Cano: 32
    T. 7. A,Gonzalez: 32
    T. 7. Ortiz: 32
    11. Francoeur: 32
    12, Quentn: 30
    T. 13. R. Martin: 29
    T, 13, Youkalis: 29
    T. 15. M. Cabrera: 28
    T. 15. Arencibia: 28
    17.  Zobrist: 28 (27.6 rounded up)
    T. 18. Willingham: 25
    T. 18.  Peralta: 25
    T. 18: Lind: 25
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from eggplants. Show eggplants's posts

    Re: What do you think is driving the re-birth of the "Age of the Pitcher"?

                              Bartolo Colon's doctor or maybe it should be witch doctor. Retired about a year ago with a fastball that couldn't break a window from 20 ft. all of a sudden shows up with a 95+ heater a year later, goes deep into games, and turns 38 yrs. old tomorrow. Bartolo says he's too legit to quit. You know what? He looks good too. Skin is nice and smooth, chest is all puffed out and he's got that Papi swagger. I like watching him move around. He moves like a 27 yr.old. Maybe he found the Fountain of Youth in the DR. GO Bartolo GO.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: What do you think is driving the re-birth of the "Age of the Pitcher"?

    The depth of young pitching talent has a ton to do with it. If you made a list of outstanding pitchers under the age of 30 in 2003 or 2004 that list was very short compared to today.

    Now HRs and hence runs produced via those HRs were no doubt impacted by those that used PEDs. But that alone does not explain the decline in runs only HRs. 

    Zillagod hits on the ebb and flow in sports. The NBA right now is flush with point guards and virtually devoid of centers just to add to the hockey analogy.

    And as much as we might want to think the enlarged strike zone is there simply to speed up the game, I think MLB wants HRs to go down to quiet down the off the wall obsession with PEDs in their game.

    My inner libertarian thinks MLB should allow for controlled use of HGH for injury recovery BTW, which is a common use and even more common excuse for those that get caught.

    In the long run the strike zone will get smaller again I think. As baseball learned in the 60's, great pitching may win in the post season but it loses at the turnstiles and in the ratings.

    Baseball's post 1950 renaissance moments were the 75 World Series (a run scoring festival), McGuire and Sosa and the epic battles between the RS and NYY in the middle of the last decade. All run scoring not lock down pitching events.

    Scoring is as American as apple pie. It was why soccer and hockey flounder as boutique interests and why the NFL is always finding new rules to benefit the pass and the offense.  

     
     

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