What do you want from a catcher?

  1. This post has been removed.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: What do you want from a catcher?

    In Response to What do you want from a catcher?:
    [QUOTE]There seems to be a lot of anti-Saltalamacchia sentiment among fans and I'm really not sure why. Look at his offensive numbers - over a full season at his current pace, Salty would hit about thirty home runs, nearly fifty doubles and drive in about ninety runs. Want a catcher who throws out every base stealer who dares run on him? Good luck with that. Lavarnway has some pretty serious questions about his catching skills, yet a lot of people want to trade Saltalamacchia for a used fungo bat. Go figure.....
    Posted by davetheknave[/QUOTE]

    The reasons you listed are exactly why Salty could/should be traded, although certainly for more than a used fungo bat.  He has value and he isn't even our best catching option.  I mean, we're talking about a catcher who has trouble catching a ball, that's a problem.  Combine that with his poor game calling abilities and I'm fine with sending him away for something of value and bringing in Lavarnway who is better defensively than Salty and should be able to provide as much if not more offense.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: What do you want from a catcher?

    Use Lavarnway and Salty. Trade Shoppach. Ideally keep them all as long as Shoppach and Salty are producing as having a mlb ready guy in AAA is extremely helpful. But I would trade either Salty, Lavarnway or Shoppach if we can get a good return. I would be very hesitant to trade Lavarnway as he appears to me to have more potential than any of them.. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: What do you want from a catcher?

    Shoppach has almost zero trade value. He is strictly backup material.

    The Red Sox signed Shoppach because he is capable of catching 80 games until they figure out if Lavernway is ever going to be good enough defensively to be an everyday catcher.

    Salty remains the best option because of his bat. He does a decent job catching. I'm not 100% sold on him, but I am liking him more everyday. He's no worse than a Rich Gedman, and the Sox went to the World Series with him in 1986.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: What do you want from a catcher?



    Que cera, cera.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from harv53. Show harv53's posts

    Re: What do you want from a catcher?

    In Response to What do you want from a catcher?:
    [QUOTE]There seems to be a lot of anti-Saltalamacchia sentiment among fans and I'm really not sure why. Look at his offensive numbers - over a full season at his current pace, Salty would hit about thirty home runs, nearly fifty doubles and drive in about ninety runs. Want a catcher who throws out every base stealer who dares run on him? Good luck with that. Lavarnway has some pretty serious questions about his catching skills, yet a lot of people want to trade Saltalamacchia for a used fungo bat. Go figure.....
    Posted by davetheknave[/QUOTE]

    What are you basing this on, the last 3 games? How about looking at the whole context. He has 8 DBLs, 5 HRs, and 15 RBIs in 93 PAs.
    He has played in 75% of the games which, if he continues to do so (not likely) he will play in 121 games.
    Lets go with that though and give him the benefit of doubt.
    At his current pace through his 27 games, he will hit exactly 36 DBLs, 22 Hrs and drive in 68 runs in 121 games. Very good but not anywhere close to what you are projecting so how about coming down to earth here.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: What do you want from a catcher?

    I've read that Ryan Lavaranway is a defensive work in progress, but I would note that Lavarnway has thrown out 11 of 30 attempted basestealers at Triple A this year (37 percent) and 96 of 296 in his minor league career (32 percent). Lavarnway threw out the only attempted basestealer in his brief MLB career:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=lavarn001rya
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: What do you want from a catcher?

    Psoted the below yesterday on another thread, but it is worth repeating....since I am sick of hearing that Salty cant catch the ball....most of his passed balls last year were with Wake when he had 26...this year he has 2 so far, a pace for under 10. I like Lava and I wwould love to see him on the team, but giving up Salty would be idiotic, unless you could get a pitcher better than the starters we have and that would not happen....plus, remember that Papi is not gooing to last that many more years....and that may be the role that Lava eventually fills.

    Salty is 27.....Teks first good Offensive year was when he was 27. At 27 he had 25 passed balls....at 28 he had 14....after that he averaged about 5 for the rest of his career. Catchers Develop.....they learn their staff and their tendancies.....we are watching Salty develop. All the Lava needs to stay in the minors to develop, assume a catcher can learn and develop....so why should we be surprised when Salty does. I think if they brought up Lava, him and Salty would be a heck of a tandem.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: What do you want from a catcher?

    In Response to Re: What do you want from a catcher?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to What do you want from a catcher? : The reasons you listed are exactly why Salty could/should be traded, although certainly for more than a used fungo bat.  He has value and he isn't even our best catching option.  I mean, we're talking about a catcher who has trouble catching a ball, that's a problem.  Combine that with his poor game calling abilities and I'm fine with sending him away for something of value and bringing in Lavarnway who is better defensively than Salty and should be able to provide as much if not more offense.
    Posted by JB-3[/QUOTE]
    If you think that Salty is not calling pitches well, either you are not paying attention or you don't know how to assess pitch-calling.
    "Cannot catch the ball."  See the other post on this thread about that subject.
    Salty has been coming up with everything in the dirt. He will have more passed balls, but so do all catchers now and then.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: What do you want from a catcher?

    FWIW, Salty has terrible splits vLHP (.600 OPS career) and Shop crushes lefties (.900 career OPS).  This was a great pick up for the Sox and it is working nicely.  

    Definitely SSS territory here but Shop has taken almost all the LHP's ... Salty has only 8 ABs vLHP.  This should be dramatically improving Salty's stats.  Salty is hitting a bit above his career stats when you take the splits into account, but accounting for where he is with hot/cold streaks, he is doing what you should expect given the platoon.  IMHO, this isn't a situation where we say "woo hoo, he is going ape**** with the bat ... sell high, SELL HIGH!!!"  

    Also factor in where Lava is right now (not great) and Salty's apparent improvement behind the plate and how that meshes with catchers' typical development  ... thanks to tomnev for that excellent post.  He could be moved if there is a really good offer but I suspect they'd need to be getting above value to consider putting the pitcher's through a mid season change which could be very problematic.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: What do you want from a catcher?

    In Response to Re: What do you want from a catcher?:
    [QUOTE]FWIW,  He could be moved if there is a really good offer but I suspect they'd need to be getting above value to consider putting the pitcher's through a mid season change which could be very problematic.
    Posted by 111SoxFan111[/QUOTE]

    111...that is a really good point.....upsetting the pitchers developed comfort level by bringing in a new everyday catcher is not mentioned ...and you are  right it should be. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: What do you want from a catcher?

    Last thought about Shop and the platoon.  Again, small sample size warning but at this point, Shopp is hitting as well or better than Salty and at a disadvantage.  90% of Salty's at bats have been favorable splits (vRHP) ... only 50% of Shop's ABs are favorable split (vLHP).  Salty should be out hitting Shoppach.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: What do you want from a catcher?

    In Response to Re: What do you want from a catcher?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do you want from a catcher? :  "Cannot catch the ball."
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    I've never seen so many pitches glance off of the catchers glove or balls in the dirt being backhanded instead of blocked as I've seen from the Salty/Shoppach combo.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: What do you want from a catcher?

    In Response to Re: What do you want from a catcher?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do you want from a catcher? : I've never seen so many pitches glance off of the catchers glove or balls in the dirt being backhanded instead of blocked as I've seen from the Salty/Shoppach combo.
    Posted by JB-3[/QUOTE]
    Salty has come up CLEANLY with a ton of balls in the dirt during his last several starts. I haven't seen one glance off his glove. His mechanics are looking just fine.
    Watch catchers carefully -- all catchers. There are times on a wild pitch when it's simply not physically possible to block. Often, the backhanded stab is merely a desperate reflex to stop the darn thing. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from harv53. Show harv53's posts

    Re: What do you want from a catcher?

    In Response to Re: What do you want from a catcher?:
    [QUOTE]Psoted the below yesterday on another thread, but it is worth repeating....since I am sick of hearing that Salty cant catch the ball....most of his passed balls last year were with Wake when he had 26...this year he has 2 so far, a pace for under 10. I like Lava and I wwould love to see him on the team, but giving up Salty would be idiotic, unless you could get a pitcher better than the starters we have and that would not happen....plus, remember that Papi is not gooing to last that many more years....and that may be the role that Lava eventually fills. Salty is 27.....Teks first good Offensive year was when he was 27. At 27 he had 25 passed balls....at 28 he had 14....after that he averaged about 5 for the rest of his career. Catchers Develop.....they learn their staff and their tendancies.....we are watching Salty develop. All the Lava needs to stay in the minors to develop, assume a catcher can learn and develop....so why should we be surprised when Salty does. I think if they brought up Lava, him and Salty would be a heck of a tandem.
    Posted by tomnev[/QUOTE]

    You can spin it any way you want to. The fact of the matter is that he is a poor defensive catcher. And the fact that most of his PBs were because of Wake won't wash. Martinez had 4 PBs catching Wake .
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: What do you want from a catcher?

    Harv,

    I am not spinning anything....I think 26 PB are way too much....Wake or no Wake...but I noted that at the same age and basically the same ML experience Tek had 27 PB and then he improved each year.....and I and many other posters can see that improvement starting in Salty.....and this years stats indicate it...do you not see improvement?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: What do you want from a catcher?

    In Response to Re: What do you want from a catcher?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do you want from a catcher? : Salty has come up CLEANLY with a ton of balls in the dirt during his last several starts. I haven't seen one glance off his glove. His mechanics are looking just fine. Watch catchers carefully -- all catchers. There are times on a wild pitch when it's simply not physically possible to block. Often, the backhanded stab is merely a desperate reflex to stop the darn thing. 
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    The worst one was during Cook's start.  Salty let a sinker go 5-hole and it directly led to Cook's injury.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: What do you want from a catcher?

    If we went by bad games, Aceves would be at Pawtucket.  His ERA is still over 6, but he is the closer because after a bad start he got pretty good. 

    The bullpen has been aces for over 20 games, most of which Salty caught.  If he were as lousy as jb-3 thinks, the bullpen could not possibly have pitched that well. 

    The Cook passed ball was egregious, but it happens.  Meanwhile, with Cook out, the rotation is looking pretty good.  We'll know more after this road trip. 

    I think Saltalamacchia is about to become a pretty decent catcher even though he can't seem to throw guys out at 2B.  Given that absolutely no one else wanted him and the Sox got him for basically nothing, he was a good find. 

    Lavarnway is the future, but needs time.  Besides, Lavarnway won't be able to catch every day and may even get used as the DH. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: What do you want from a catcher?

    In Response to Re: What do you want from a catcher?:
    [QUOTE]If we went by bad games, Aceves would be at Pawtucket.  His ERA is still over 6, but he is the closer because after a bad start he got pretty good.  The bullpen has been aces for over 20 games, most of which Salty caught.  If he were as lousy as jb-3 thinks, the bullpen could not possibly have pitched that well.  The Cook passed ball was egregious, but it happens.  Meanwhile, with Cook out, the rotation is looking pretty good.  We'll know more after this road trip.  I think Saltalamacchia is about to become a pretty decent catcher even though he can't seem to throw guys out at 2B.  Given that absolutely no one else wanted him and the Sox got him for basically nothing, he was a good find.  Lavarnway is the future, but needs time.  Besides, Lavarnway won't be able to catch every day and may even get used as the DH. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    Right, we should stick with Salty over Lava because Lava won't be able to catch everyday.  Great reason to stick with a catcher who's never caught more than 103 games in a season.

    Salty was worth the price to acquire, I won't argue against that, but he doesn't give the team the best chance to win.

    Salty's only had 2 past balls this year, but he's been the catcher for 10 wild pitches in just 207 innings behind the plate.  That's a wild pitch or past ball every other game.  The sad thing is that this is actually an improvement for him over last year, although part of that can be attributed to the fact that he no longer needs to catch Wake.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: What do you want from a catcher?

    In Response to Re: What do you want from a catcher?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do you want from a catcher? : The worst one was during Cook's start.  Salty let a sinker go 5-hole and it directly led to Cook's injury.
    Posted by JB-3[/QUOTE]
    Hey, you're now down to one passed ball, after which an accident happened. Sounds pretty desperate. 
    BTW, where are the others, in addition to the worst one?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: What do you want from a catcher?

    In Response to Re: What do you want from a catcher?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do you want from a catcher? : Right, we should stick with Salty over Lava because Lava won't be able to catch everyday.  Great reason to stick with a catcher who's never caught more than 103 games in a season. Salty was worth the price to acquire, I won't argue against that, but he doesn't give the team the best chance to win. Salty's only had 2 past balls this year, but he's been the catcher for 10 wild pitches in just 207 innings behind the plate.  That's a wild pitch or past ball every other game.  The sad thing is that this is actually an improvement for him over last year, although part of that can be attributed to the fact that he no longer needs to catch Wake.
    Posted by JB-3[/QUOTE]
    So now Salty is responsible for wild pitches. Dod you see them all? Since you purport to know so much about catching, how many of those do you think he should have caught?
    You sound more and more desperate with each post to discredit a player who manifestly is much better now than he was, still has room for improvement 
    ( most players do ), and appears to be hanging just fine with the staff.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: What do you want from a catcher?

    I didn't feel like reading all the posts but here is a reason to trade Salty... He is not very good handeling a pitching staff. He is a shell of what Varitek was in that requard, and Lavarnway is not as bad as you have heard. He can improve for sure but not a huge drop from Salty if any.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: What do you want from a catcher?

    In Response to Re: What do you want from a catcher?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do you want from a catcher? : So now Salty is responsible for wild pitches. Dod you see them all? Since you purport to know so much about catching, how many of those do you think he should have caught? You sound more and more desperate with each post to discredit a player who manifestly is much better now than he was, still has room for improvement  ( most players do ), and appears to be hanging just fine with the staff.
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    I'm sorry, but Salty was historically bad behind the plate last year, I can't ignore that.  He allowed the most past balls since Mike Macfarlane in 1995 (26 PB's in 899 2/3 innings).  Salty accomplished the feat in 43 2/3 fewer innings.

    To find the last time a catcher allowed more past balls than Salty last year, you have to go all the way back to Geno Petralli back in 1987.  Geno managed 35 PB's in just 408 innings.

    Obviously catchers only have so much control over wild pitches, but Tek never had anything like this WP rate.  He was behind the plate for 43 WP's in 2005 over the course of 1089 innings (1 WP per 25 1/3 innings) his second highest total was only 28 (1 WP per 38 1/3 innings).  Salty's current rate is a PB every 20 2/3 innings.

    A good defensive catcher can save his staff wild pitches.  Salty isn't good behind the plate.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: What do you want from a catcher?

    In Response to Re: What do you want from a catcher?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do you want from a catcher? : I'm sorry, but Salty was historically bad behind the plate last year, I can't ignore that.  He allowed the most past balls since Mike Macfarlane in 1995 (26 PB's in 899 2/3 innings).  Salty accomplished the feat in 43 2/3 fewer innings. To find the last time a catcher allowed more past balls than Salty last year, you have to go all the way back to Geno Petralli back in 1987.  Geno managed 35 PB's in just 408 innings. Obviously catchers only have so much control over wild pitches, but Tek never had anything like this WP rate.  He was behind the plate for 43 WP's in 2005 over the course of 1089 innings (1 WP per 25 1/3 innings) his second highest total was only 28 (1 WP per 38 1/3 innings).  Salty's current rate is a PB every 20 2/3 innings. A good defensive catcher can save his staff wild pitches.  Salty isn't good behind the plate.
    Posted by JB-3[/QUOTE]
    The wild pitch issue is a read herring. Too many variables.
    So far this year, especially recently, Salty has looked great behind the plate.
    ( See my log of tonight's game. ) And his pitch-calling is shrewd.
    I'm confronted with the age-old choice here. I can believe your abacadabra metrics or my own educated eyes. 
    I'm beginning to think that you've never been near a mound or home plate in a serious baseball game. And that you don't know how to watch one.  Maybe you don't think you need to learn to watch one as long as you have those old numbers.
    I say get into the present. And get off Salty's case. You're staring to look foolish. Sorry to be harsh, but there it is.
    BTW, forget me. Are you reading what several good posters are NOW saying about Salty?

     
  25. This post has been removed.

     

Share