What Does Nava Have to Do?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    What Does Nava Have to Do?

    In my book, he's an A- hitter, and an A- fielder (at any corner outfield spot, and also at 1st base. He's supposed to be only a fair hittet, but he comes in against a tricky lefty and gets 3 hits! He makes a couple of saves at first base. Sooooo, against another tricky lefty, tonight, HE'S ON THE BENCH! Tell me how much sense this makes. Is he on someones "list"?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: What Does Nava Have to Do?

    Because he has a .653 OPS vs. LHP as oppsed to his .852 vs. RHP. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: What Does Nava Have to Do?

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    Because he has a .653 OPS vs. LHP as oppsed to his .852 vs. RHP. 




    I would much rather see Nava in there than KNap, a proven failure.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: What Does Nava Have to Do?

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    Because he has a .653 OPS vs. LHP as oppsed to his .852 vs. RHP. 




    So what! How much of a smplae is that? He hasn't been allowed in there Vs RH pitchers; once he does get a shot, he comes up big!

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: What Does Nava Have to Do?

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

    Because he has a .653 OPS vs. LHP as oppsed to his .852 vs. RHP. 

     




    So what! How much of a smplae is that? He hasn't been allowed in there Vs RH pitchers; once he does get a shot, he comes up big!

     




    Don't you get it?  The numbers guys have tunnel vision.  All they see are numbers and stats.  Intangibles are irrelevant.

    A rare shining light was the fact that Pedroia was a 1st round pick....not being a '4 tool' person.  It's incredible someone had the balls to suggest he be picked in the 1st round.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: What Does Nava Have to Do?

    The platoon is not really working out all that great, but more of that is Gomes whose numbers vs LHP are kind of subpar...

    “Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me. Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”

    -Shel Silverstein

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: What Does Nava Have to Do?

    I'd never sit Nava or Carp against righties.  But Nava has never hit lefties well, and Gomes generally kills lefties.  Their histories are too compelling to think they would suddenly change.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: What Does Nava Have to Do?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

    Because he has a .653 OPS vs. LHP as oppsed to his .852 vs. RHP. 

     




    I would much rather see Nava in there than KNap, a proven failure.

     



    Congrats.  For all the 20-30 inane derogatory nicknames you give our players, this is the first one that I thought was clever and apropos.

    Now that I agreed with one of ADG's suggestions, and actually chuckled at one of Pumpsie's nicknames, time to go hit the weights to delete this from active memory.

    Agreeing with both ADG and PG in the same morning, wow...........

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: What Does Nava Have to Do?

    And a .635 lifetime ops for Nava.  He doesn't hit LHP and never will! at least Napoli can play defense at 1B.

     

    You numbers guys have "tunnel vision" 

    I say people who ignore the numbers are biased and build there own narratives to convince themselves what they want to see is real.

    Stats are a measurement, it measures what happens on the field.  You don't like Napoli? It shows up in the numbers? He strikes out too much? Wellmew measure that too....it's called K's

    Daniel Nava doesn't hit LHP.  If he did his numbers would better.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: What Does Nava Have to Do?

    Navas OPS from April on: (career) .885 .855 .820 .634 .626

    It appears that Nava trends down as the season goes on. This year:

    .885 .820 .758 .676 .944

    Ok he does look good in August, SSS however so can he continue to buck the trend? I say no and Gomes looks just as good with a .955.

    Nava 24 ab with 2 RBI in August 

    Gomes 33ab 8 RBI 2 HR. In August 

    Gomes has also been trending upward this year. He got off to a horrid start, absolutely horrible.  His monthly OPS:

    .670 .612 .826 .885 .955

    Gomes is heating up.  I've been a supporter of Nava all year long and have been optimistic that he looks good recently despite historically turning back into a pumpkin as the season progresses. I even started a thread earlier this year trying to rally other to vote him into the AS game.  But Gomes has done nothing offensively from June on to take him out of the lineup.  Yes he's done better this year against RHP and worst vs LHP, but much of this can be attributed to his cold April/may.  The numbers still suggest a Gomes/Nava split in LF is the most productive construction

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: What Does Nava Have to Do?

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

    Because he has a .653 OPS vs. LHP as oppsed to his .852 vs. RHP. 

     




    So what! How much of a smplae is that? He hasn't been allowed in there Vs RH pitchers; once he does get a shot, he comes up big!

     



    VS. RHP? Isn't that why I said Nava has a higher OPS vs RHP? And that's why he should play?

    Im confused I thought Petitte was a lefty?

    Excuse me am I missing something, or did you mean to say LHP?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: What Does Nava Have to Do?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    I'd never sit Nava or Carp against righties.  But Nava has never hit lefties well, and Gomes generally kills lefties.  Their histories are too compelling to think they would suddenly change.

     




    Nobody's talking about Gomes. How did he get into this? Gomes should hit against lefties and play left field, while Nava is at first base. IS that too complicated for you?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: What Does Nava Have to Do?

    The Red Sox have been getting by with a ragtag lineup of mostly bench type players in the starting lineup.

    It's been a good run with so many maginal players in the lineup every day.

    Pretty soon the Navas, Gomes, Napolis, Carps and Drews come back to bite you. None of these should ever be fulltime regulars. They all do have their strengths , but seriously , there are 100s of average ballplayers in MLB and AAA....that is what these guys are.

    "Here we are trapped in the amber of the moment. There is no why.- Kurt Vonnegut

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: What Does Nava Have to Do?

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    I'd never sit Nava or Carp against righties.  But Nava has never hit lefties well, and Gomes generally kills lefties.  Their histories are too compelling to think they would suddenly change.

     

     




    Nobody's talking about Gomes. How did he get into this? Gomes should hit against lefties and play left field, while Nava is at first base. IS that too complicated for you?

     



    Yes and Nava is not a first baseman 

    Nava    UZR = -.9 UZR/150 = -21.2 Range = -.3

    Napoli. UZR = 7.6 UZR/150 = 12.6 Range = 6.8

     

    As bad as Napoli has been at the plate his K% drops down to 28.5% while Navas jumps to 24.5% vs. lefties while Napoli walks more;  Napoli carries a 12.9% BB rate vs. lefties vs Navas 8.5%

    Napoli has .761 OPS vs. lefties while Navas is .653

    Nava should not play first base over Napoli vs lefties,  why is that hard to understand?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: What Does Nava Have to Do?

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:

    In my book, he's an A- hitter, and an A- fielder (at any corner outfield spot, and also at 1st base. He's supposed to be only a fair hittet, but he comes in against a tricky lefty and gets 3 hits! He makes a couple of saves at first base. Sooooo, against another tricky lefty, tonight, HE'S ON THE BENCH! Tell me how much sense this makes. Is he on someones "list"?

    This season Daniel Nava has been valued at 0.7 WAR* in 103 games, Mike Napoli 2.0 WAR in 111 games and Mike Carp 0.9 WAR in 63 games:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2013&month=0&season1=&ind=0&team=3&players=0

    Nava has a BABIP** of .331 and a UZR/150*** of negative 21.2:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=5450&position=OF#fieldingadvanced

    * Wins Above Replacement as reported at FanGraphs

    ** Batting Average on Balls in Play

    *** Ultimate Zone Rating / 150 games

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: What Does Nava Have to Do?

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:

    In my book, he's an A- hitter, and an A- fielder (at any corner outfield spot, and also at 1st base. He's supposed to be only a fair hittet, but he comes in against a tricky lefty and gets 3 hits! He makes a couple of saves at first base. Sooooo, against another tricky lefty, tonight, HE'S ON THE BENCH! Tell me how much sense this makes. Is he on someones "list"?

    This season Daniel Nava has been valued at 0.7 WAR* in 103 games, Mike Napoli 2.0 WAR in 111 games and Mike Carp 0.9 WAR in 63 games:

     

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2013&month=0&season1=&ind=0&team=3&players=0

    Nava has a BABIP** of .331 and a UZR/150*** of negative 21.2:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=5450&position=OF#fieldingadvanced

    * Wins Above Replacement as reported at FanGraphs

    ** Batting Average on Balls in Play

    *** Ultimate Zone Rating / 150 games



    HA!!! So we pretty much were doing the same exact research at almost the same exact time.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jader. Show jader's posts

    Re: What Does Nava Have to Do?


    Good post and discussion. Fact is this is an ordinary Sox team. Outside of Ortiz, Pedroia, Victorino and a 'once in a while' contribution from Ells, the rest of the hitters are pedestrian, very ordinary and I am amazed that Farrell has gotten so much out of this group, he's done remarkable job.

    Nava is very ordinary and not much in the clutch. The same can be said for Napoli or Knap, Ells, and Saly. Gomes has had his moments but the bottom of this order is not great.

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: What Does Nava Have to Do?

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    I'd never sit Nava or Carp against righties.  But Nava has never hit lefties well, and Gomes generally kills lefties.  Their histories are too compelling to think they would suddenly change.

     

     




    Nobody's talking about Gomes. How did he get into this? Gomes should hit against lefties and play left field, while Nava is at first base. IS that too complicated for you?

     



    Gomes/Nava = perfect LF platoon

    Napoli/Carp = perfect 1B platoon.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: What Does Nava Have to Do?

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

    The Red Sox have been getting by with a ragtag lineup of mostly bench type players in the starting lineup.

    It's been a good run with so many maginal players in the lineup every day.

    Pretty soon the Navas, Gomes, Napolis, Carps and Drews come back to bite you. None of these should ever be fulltime regulars. They all do have their strengths , but seriously , there are 100s of average ballplayers in MLB and AAA....that is what these guys are.

    "Here we are trapped in the amber of the moment. There is no why.- Kurt Vonnegut



    Of course.  No one has an AS at every position.  If your worst player is well above average, you'd win 115 games.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: What Does Nava Have to Do?

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

    The Red Sox have been getting by with a ragtag lineup of mostly bench type players in the starting lineup.

    It's been a good run with so many maginal players in the lineup every day.

    Pretty soon the Navas, Gomes, Napolis, Carps and Drews come back to bite you. None of these should ever be fulltime regulars. They all do have their strengths , but seriously , there are 100s of average ballplayers in MLB and AAA....that is what these guys are.

    "Here we are trapped in the amber of the moment. There is no why.- Kurt Vonnegut



    Napoli is a proven MLB starter. Drew is one of the best short stops in baseball time for you to move on from your hatred.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: What Does Nava Have to Do?

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

    Because he has a .653 OPS vs. LHP as oppsed to his .852 vs. RHP. 

     




    So what! How much of a smplae is that? He hasn't been allowed in there Vs RH pitchers; once he does get a shot, he comes up big!

    When he gets his shot he comes up big...... Only sometimes and maybe not enough .Thats why he's a bench player.




     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: What Does Nava Have to Do?

    In response to jader's comment:


    Good post and discussion. Fact is this is an ordinary Sox team. Outside of Ortiz, Pedroia, Victorino and a 'once in a while' contribution from Ells, the rest of the hitters are pedestrian, very ordinary and I am amazed that Farrell has gotten so much out of this group, he's done remarkable job.

    Nava is very ordinary and not much in the clutch. The same can be said for Napoli or Knap, Ells, and Saly. Gomes has had his moments but the bottom of this order is not great.



    Agree!!! .. Isn't it amazing that the Sox could not find three starting outfielders? They try to mix and match but with just average at best hitters it's  showing againt good pitching.They don't have a starting nine.......In fact i would say they only have maybe a starting FIVE....... Ortiz ,Peddy, Drew,Ells,Salty .. And NO ! Not ..Hamstring Vicky or flyswatter Naps

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: What Does Nava Have to Do?

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    And a .635 lifetime ops for Nava.  He doesn't hit LHP and never will! at least Napoli can play defense at 1B.

     

    You numbers guys have "tunnel vision" 

    I say people who ignore the numbers are biased and build there own narratives to convince themselves what they want to see is real.

    Stats are a measurement, it measures what happens on the field.  You don't like Napoli? It shows up in the numbers? He strikes out too much? Wellmew measure that too....it's called K's

    Daniel Nava doesn't hit LHP.  If he did his numbers would better.




    Lifetime time numbers mean zilch when your career has been as short as Nava's. It's what he's doing now that counts.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: What Does Nava Have to Do?

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    Because he has a .653 OPS vs. LHP as oppsed to his .852 vs. RHP. 




    Lifetime time numbers mean zilch when your career has been as short as Nava's. It's what he's doing now that counts.

     
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