What Happened to Michael Aviles?

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: What Happened to Michael Aviles?

    Maybe because Ciriaco is hitting 350?
     
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    Re: What Happened to Michael Aviles?

    He is not the best SS defensive in MLB!!  Anyway he have a toe injury.  Not sure how long he is out.  Why you want him if Ciriaco is a way better defender at SS than Aviles?
     
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    Re: What Happened to Michael Aviles?

    What happened?

    He still outhit and outhit Scutaro.

    He was replaced by a player who is playing better.

    Is this a trick question?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: What Happened to Michael Aviles?

    10 HR's at 02-August?  explain how is this HR machine??
    Ciriaco is hot as hades right now and Bobby V is (and should) ride that horse until it keels over.
     
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    Re: What Happened to Michael Aviles?

    his OBP is .280 and that's what he is. low on base occasional pop decent fielder, ciriaco is better.
     
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    Re: What Happened to Michael Aviles?

    In Response to Re: What Happened to Michael Aviles?:
    [QUOTE]10 HR's at 02-August?  explain how is this HR machine?? Ciriaco is hot as hades right now and Bobby V is (and should) ride that horse until it keels over.
    Posted by slasher9[/QUOTE]

    If Ciriaco could develop a little plate discipline and not swing at balls a foot out of the strike zone he could develop into a very good hitter. Maybe he will work on that this winter.
     
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    Re: What Happened to Michael Aviles?

    In Response to Re: What Happened to Michael Aviles?:
    [QUOTE]He still outhit and outhit Scutaro. Is there an echo in your hollow head. Define "outhit". Is that the nifty OBP that this "better than you thought defensive SS" has?
    Posted by TrotterNixon[/QUOTE]

    No, I expected Aviles to have an OBP about .310-.320. I have never said his OBP is good, but among MLB SS's, it is not as bad as you make it out to be.

    As compared to Scutaro who is playing half his games in Colorado and faces AAAA pitching as you call the NL pitchers, here is the breakdown:

           Aviles    Scutaro
    BA      .252    .271
    OBP   .275    .324
    SLG    .395    .361
    OPS   .670    .684
    OPS+    76        75
    HRs       10         4 
    RBI        51       30
    Clutch .720   .684
    SB/At  10/14  7/10

    Pretty close on the hitting front if you don't factor in home park and pitchers faced.

    I wanted Iggy to start the season over Aviles based on what I projected they would hit vs how many hits I thought Iggy would take away from the opponents over a full season. I have since realized that Aviles is not as limited in range as I had expected. In fact, his RF/9 is one of the best in MLB. You choose to ignore the facts and admittedly don't even bother to watch the games, so personal observations are not relevant to you either. Since Mike's BA and OBP are below expectations, the formula I used earlier in the year is still relevant, except that the BA/OBP differential between Mike and Iggy (now Ciriaco) is not near the same, but so is the hits saved part of the equation. One is less while the other is more.

    I have always been for having a great fielding SS. Anyone with half a memory knows that. unfortunatle, you have no memory, or instead, choose to invent positionsheld by myslef and others in order to argue with yourself.

    Ciriaco looks to be a great fielding SS. I have not seen him play enough to say if he is better than Iggy or not, but he certainly has more range than Aviles. The way he is hitting, it is a no-brainer to start Ciriaco at SS at least if or until he slumps. I have never said otherwise.

    Just because I defend Aviles against your lies and distortions does not mean I think he should start. You all to often jump to faulty conclusions.

     
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    Re: What Happened to Michael Aviles?

    In Response to Re: What Happened to Michael Aviles?:
    [QUOTE]You've gone from "better" to "pretty close". Aviles has been part of the problem, for those who understand that a SS preventing runs is more important than his HR or RBI totals as a RH in Fenway Park.
    Posted by TrotterNixon[/QUOTE]

    apologies for the thread jack...but...who do you like on the current RS roster?
     
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    Re: What Happened to Michael Aviles?

    He has an 'ouchie' on his toe......
     
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    Re: What Happened to Michael Aviles?

    it looks like a wash between the two shortstops....which is why pedro is stepping up...lol
    be grateful we got him from the scrap heap and he is a diamond for us...at least for now...

     
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    Re: What Happened to Michael Aviles?

    In Response to Re: What Happened to Michael Aviles?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What Happened to Michael Aviles? : If Ciriaco could develop a little plate discipline and not swing at balls a foot out of the strike zone he could develop into a very good hitter. Maybe he will work on that this winter.
    Posted by pumpsie-green[/QUOTE]

    Doubtful.

    He's never been much for patience and plate discipline, and if he ever tried to wirk on it before, it clearly didn't take.  He's just an aggressive hitter.

    Think of him as a Latino right-handed Mike Greenwell but as an infielder, and wthout the power.

    And once the BABIP normalizes, without the singles, either...  
     
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    Re: What Happened to Michael Aviles?

    You've gone from "better" to "pretty close".

    Yeah, you were "pretty close", but wrong as usual.

    Aviles has hit better than Scutaro this year, but it is close. I haven't changed my position. Maybe by year's end, Scutaro will have better numbers.

    Aviles has been part of the problem, for those who understand that a SS preventing runs is more important than his HR or RBI totals as a RH in Fenway Park.

    Oh, but BA and OBP are more important than preventing runs?

    Preventing baserunners and runs is certainly the most important skill of a MLB SS. I have never doubted this. I have never changed my view that Iggy and now Ciriaco have better range than Aviles and are better overall fielders than Aviles. My point has been that Mike has done worse than expected in OBP, but better than expected fielding so far this season. 

    Had Aviles kept up his .320 career OBP this year, then his better-than-expected fielding would have made the choice between Iggy and him much tougher to make.

    Even if Chiriaco's OBP dips to .275, I'll still take Pedro over Mike as out SS, but the Hrs and RBIs would make the choice closer than you will ever admit.
     
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    Re: What Happened to Michael Aviles?

    In Response to Re: What Happened to Michael Aviles?:
    [QUOTE]You've gone from "better" to "pretty close". Yeah, you were "pretty close", but wrong as usual. Aviles has hit better than Scutaro this year, but it is close. I haven't changed my position. Maybe by year's end, Scutaro will have better numbers. Aviles has been part of the problem, for those who understand that a SS preventing runs is more important than his HR or RBI totals as a RH in Fenway Park. Oh, but BA and OBP are more important than preventing runs? Preventing baserunners and runs is certainly the most important skill of a MLB SS. I have never doubted this. I have never changed my view that Iggy and now Ciriaco have better range than Aviles and are better overall fielders than Aviles. My point has been that Mike has done worse than expected in OBP, but better than expected fielding so far this season.  Had Aviles kept up his .320 career OBP this year, then his better-than-expected fielding would have made the choice between Iggy and him much tougher to make. Even if Chiriaco's OBP dips to .275, I'll still take Pedro over Mike as out SS, but the Hrs and RBIs would make the choice closer than you will ever admit.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]Here's the thing moon. Softy's gearing up to be bashing Aviles after Ells is traded over the winter. Smile
     
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    Re: What Happened to Michael Aviles?

    In Response to Re: What Happened to Michael Aviles?:
    [QUOTE]Aviles has hit better than Scutaro this year False, and wrong as usual. Aviles has been a butcher at SS, and has not fielded "better than expected unless horrific was the expecation.
    Posted by TrotterNixon[/QUOTE]So you're telling me that bashing Aviles isn't going to be the first thing on your agenda next April?
     
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    Re: What Happened to Michael Aviles?

    In Response to Re: What Happened to Michael Aviles?:
    [QUOTE]Aviles has hit better than Scutaro this year False, and wrong as usual. Aviles has been a butcher at SS, and has not fielded "better than expected unless horrific was the expecation.
    Posted by TrotterNixon[/QUOTE]

    Actually, I did expect pretty close to "horrific" when factoring in range heavily as I do. I thought he might be one of the worst 5 fielding starting SS in MLB this year, and that was the reason I said I would take Iggy over Aviles, even if Iggy ended up hitting .200 to .220 and a bad SLG%. I projected (based on conjecture, since I barely saw Iggy or Aviles play) Iggy might prevent 80-120 hits more than Aviles over 50 games played in 2012.

    I have watched every pitch of every game this year, and always watch the SS very closely, since poor SS fielding is a pet peeve of mine. If I was like you, I would have ignored my observations and the stats, and clung to my position that Aviles was a bad fielder, and Iggy would have made a big difference this year. Changing my view does not make me look like a great prognosticator, but unlike you, I'd rather tell the truth than divert, distort, and mangle the facts to make myself look better.

    The fact is, Mike Aviles has done a more than respectable job fielding the SS position this year- better than Scutaro did last year or in 2010. Don't go pontificating on the virtues of Scutaro's fielding, because you said he was a "career utility player who had no business being our starting SS" when we first got him.

    I have seen Mike make some fantastic plays at SS. He has looked nothing like the small sample size I saw in 2011, and the numbers back it up. You judged on 2011 and some scouting reports, but are too closed minded to notice any changes.

    Aviles RF/9 with Boston:
    2011 3.48 (3.76 with KC)
    2012 4.83

    His 4.64 career SS RF/9 is not a number associated with "horrific" fielders.
    Julio Lugo's is 4.51 (4.21 in 2007's "wire to wire" season).
    Renteria's is 4.33 (4.35 in Boston).
    Gonzo's is 4.22 (4.36 in 2006 and 3.94 in 2009).

    I'm not saying Aviles is better than these guys, but these numbers certainly show he hasn't been "horrific" this season. Yes, he's made some errors, and he has made some mistakes not called errors. All SSs do. Fangraphs has him rated 4th in UZR/150, 3rd in Range, and 2nd in DPR. You may dismiss these numbers, but they are based on people actually watching the games, something you have admitted to not doing.

    I'd still tyake Iggy/Chiriaco over Aviles, but not because they are vastly superior defensively, but because they represent a better future and direction for this team. Our staff needs all the help we can get. Mike's offense has not been as good as expected, and has dropped off a cliff recently. The choice today is simple, but not because Mike is a "horrific" fielder: he is not.


     
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    Re: What Happened to Michael Aviles?

    i can't believe we are waxing about scutaro.  the kid put up numbers in toronto and got the fat pay rise from a big market team and then spit the bit and put up lousy numbers.  bye bye marco.  defense?  nothing he did was mind-blowing.  not talking ozzie smith here.  SS have a habit of getting contracts to play in boston and then stinking the joint up.  let's not re-sign o-cab and sign the kid from the team we beat.  uuuuhhhhnnnnngggggg.
     
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    Re: What Happened to Michael Aviles?

    Sorry Softy.....  He should have been moved on the 31st with Beckett$, Jacoby, Salty, Punto ETAL   !!!!
     
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    Re: What Happened to Michael Aviles?

    In Response to Re: What Happened to Michael Aviles?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What Happened to Michael Aviles? : Doubtful. He's never been much for patience and plate discipline, and if he ever tried to wirk on it before, it clearly didn't take.  He's just an aggressive hitter. Think of him as a Latino right-handed Mike Greenwell but as an infielder, and wthout the power. And once the BABIP normalizes, without the singles, either...  
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    LOL!

    He's just the latest revolution of the Sox ongoing SS carousel...who will it be next year???

    A) He has a less than ideal batting approach ie OBP< 0.300.
    B) IMO, one of the worst batting stances I have ever seen. He waves his bat around in a circle and loads late everytime. Goes against everything I ever learned about hitting from any coach I ever had.
    C) Average fielder
     

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