What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    It doesn't matter to you that he might not be able to field like a ML SS by 2014?

     

     




    can't be a worse fielder than some of the guys we've had out there since nomar left...

     

    Is that the reference point? 

    We can still get Boggy in the future line-up somewhere else but SS.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    Profar definitely is the SS. Ergo Bogaerts may well be playing 3rd or some other slot. Outfield maybe?

    The thing to remember about Bagaerts is that he hasn't played a lot of baseball. A guy like Cechinni has probably played twice as many games in his life. He needs defensive reps and is still raw offensively. That is part of his appeal. He is a tremendous raw talent. Leave him at SS at least in 2013.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    Profar definitely is the SS. Ergo Bogaerts may well be playing 3rd or some other slot. Outfield maybe?

    The thing to remember about Bagaerts is that he hasn't played a lot of baseball. A guy like Cechinni has probably played twice as many games in his life. He needs defensive reps and is still raw offensively. That is part of his appeal. He is a tremendous raw talent. Leave him at SS at least in 2013.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

    Profar definitely is the SS. Ergo Bogaerts may well be playing 3rd or some other slot. Outfield maybe?

    The thing to remember about Bagaerts is that he hasn't played a lot of baseball. A guy like Cechinni has probably played twice as many games in his life. He needs defensive reps and is still raw offensively. That is part of his appeal. He is a tremendous raw talent. Leave him at SS at least in 2013.



    Then if you move him next year, we have to wait even longer for an adjustment to a new position and time taken away from working on his hitting.

    From what I hear, he's not going to be an above average SS, so why put it off?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

     

    Profar definitely is the SS. Ergo Bogaerts may well be playing 3rd or some other slot. Outfield maybe?

    The thing to remember about Bagaerts is that he hasn't played a lot of baseball. A guy like Cechinni has probably played twice as many games in his life. He needs defensive reps and is still raw offensively. That is part of his appeal. He is a tremendous raw talent. Leave him at SS at least in 2013.

     



    Then if you move him next year, we have to wait even longer for an adjustment to a new position and time taken away from working on his hitting.

     

    From what I hear, he's not going to be an above average SS, so why put it off?

     




    because scouts projections have been wrong before and they'll be wrong again.we're not going to know if he can be a ML SS if we don't let him try. Don't write him off just yet. and if he has to learn a new position in a year then so be it. It shouldn't hinder him too much

     

    Changing positions is not as hard you as you make it out to be. Worse athletes than XB have done it pretty quickly and still hold their own. Its not like he was an OF'er his whole life and is now going to be a catcher. Its SS (the most demanding IF defensive position) to 3B/1B. Its hardly a big deal.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

    In response to BMav's comment:

     

    In response to Beantowne's comment:

     

    AA is a long ways from the big leagues...As I stated in my post the only way they promote him next year is if they feel he's got nothing left to prove and is ready both physically and more importantly mentally to play in the big leagues... If I were a betting man I'd place the odds of him making the jump to the big leagues before September of 2014 as 10%...I would place the odds @ about 90% that he'll be given the chance to make the team coming out of camp in 2015....his arbitration clock will be a factor it won't be a deterrent. 

     



    Double a is very close to the big leagues. Here is the ladder and how fast Bogaerts has climbed it.....

     

     

    Majors-----2016????

    AAA

    AA-------2012

    A+

    A--------2011

    High Rookie

    Low rookie

    DSL-----2010

     

    Bogaerts has taken 5 steps up the ladder in just 2 seasons. The idea it will take him 3-4 years to make the last 2 steps would be   really bad. The fact the red Sox have pushed him so quickly is an indicator they think he is emotionally, mentally, and physically ready. The fact Bogaerts has performed at every level indicates he is ready for more.

    There is very little difference between bringing him up in May 2014 and April, 2015 from a money control stand point.

     

    My percentages when Bogaerts comes up for good.....

    Starts the 2013 season in majors-----3%

    May 2013-----5%

    June-August------25%

    Start of 2014-----5%

    May 2014--------30%

    June-August-----15%

    Start of 2015----2%

    May 2015------5%

    June-August---5%

    2016 or later---5%

    I think its likely 5-1 Bogaerts is in the majors for good by August 2014. Thats my opinion anyway.

     

     



    Great post, Bmav...this kid has a terrific head on his shoulders and his work ethic is as good as it gets.  He's clearly on the fast track and his bat speed is exceptional.  He'll have his hiccups and some scouts don't think he's "smooth" enough, but the Sox organization is really hoping he's the next face of the franchise.  I see his name in trade proposals on this board and laugh because he is as untouchable as it gets.  Chad Finn is a little optimistic to think he's going to play a role on this team this year, but nothing he does will surprise me.  It's awesome to see those guys participate in that rookie program right now.  I agree with Farrell when he says, "Developing team chemistry is crucial in this era."

     




    Did Farrell really say that? That's awesome. I'm so glad he gets that.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

     

    Profar definitely is the SS. Ergo Bogaerts may well be playing 3rd or some other slot. Outfield maybe?

    The thing to remember about Bagaerts is that he hasn't played a lot of baseball. A guy like Cechinni has probably played twice as many games in his life. He needs defensive reps and is still raw offensively. That is part of his appeal. He is a tremendous raw talent. Leave him at SS at least in 2013.

     



    Then if you move him next year, we have to wait even longer for an adjustment to a new position and time taken away from working on his hitting.

     

    From what I hear, he's not going to be an above average SS, so why put it off?

     




    because scouts projections have been wrong before and they'll be wrong again.we're not going to know if he can be a ML SS if we don't let him try. Don't write him off just yet. and if he has to learn a new position in a year then so be it. It shouldn't hinder him too much

     

    Changing positions is not as hard you as you make it out to be. Worse athletes than XB have done it pretty quickly and still hold their own. Its not like he was an OF'er his whole life and is now going to be a catcher. Its SS (the most demanding IF defensive position) to 3B/1B. Its hardly a big deal.




    Even easier transition if its to a corner OF position.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to BMav's comment:

    In response to Beantowne's comment:

     

    AA is a long ways from the big leagues...As I stated in my post the only way they promote him next year is if they feel he's got nothing left to prove and is ready both physically and more importantly mentally to play in the big leagues... If I were a betting man I'd place the odds of him making the jump to the big leagues before September of 2014 as 10%...I would place the odds @ about 90% that he'll be given the chance to make the team coming out of camp in 2015....his arbitration clock will be a factor it won't be a deterrent. 

     



    Double a is very close to the big leagues. Here is the ladder and how fast Bogaerts has climbed it.....

     

     

    Majors-----2016????

    AAA

    AA-------2012

    A+

    A--------2011

    High Rookie

    Low rookie

    DSL-----2010

     

    Bogaerts has taken 5 steps up the ladder in just 2 seasons. The idea it will take him 3-4 years to make the last 2 steps would be   really bad. The fact the red Sox have pushed him so quickly is an indicator they think he is emotionally, mentally, and physically ready. The fact Bogaerts has performed at every level indicates he is ready for more.

    There is very little difference between bringing him up in May 2014 and April, 2015 from a money control stand point.

     

    My percentages when Bogaerts comes up for good.....

    Starts the 2013 season in majors-----3%

    May 2013-----5%

    June-August------25%

    Start of 2014-----5%

    May 2014--------30%

    June-August-----15%

    Start of 2015----2%

    May 2015------5%

    June-August---5%

    2016 or later---5%

    I think its likely 5-1 Bogaerts is in the majors for good by August 2014. Thats my opinion anyway.

     



    Bmav,

    Your timeline could well come to fruition, if he's truly ready for the big leagues. As a rule the Red Sox have with all of thier top prospects, tried to have them play at or below the league age average. In an attempt to find thier ceilings and almost as important how they handle adversity and make adjustments...Boegharts clearly is seen as one of thier top prospects and this year he's likely to find himself at AAA and then we'll see if he can continue his accent to Boston. Every wrung on the ladder to the big leagues is marred with pot holes and if the kid can compete @ the AAA level and put up 900 OPS...He'll soon be wearing a Boston Red Sox Jersey.

    Just for some perspective...Lars Anderson one of BA top 10 prospects in 2009, was seen as the next best after tearing up AA...However, once he got to AAA and faced advanced pitching, they found his ceiling and since has fallen of the map...I'm not suggesting that the two are comparable. I only caution those that think the kid is a lock to be an impact hitter at the big league level. Encouraged for sure, but again it's a long ways from AA to the Big Leagues..I also would not trivialize the whispers about his not being a ML ready SS. However if they continue to play him there. Then the teams scouts and coaches must see something that gives them reasons to continue to play him there...Could be as simple as not wanting to erode his confidence by moving him to the Outfield or in fact they see him as having the hands and feet, that with more work could develop into a ML SS...one with a plus bat. Is that worth waiting until he's the ripe old age of 22 for...I would think so...

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    Bogy will need to make the adjustments at AA before advancing to AAA. In 23 games Bogy had 1 BB and 21 K's. So there very well could be a bit longer of an adjustment period as it looks like hes getting fooled by advanced pitching. He had a .948 OPS and overall did very good. Just something that I noticed that could be a concern.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    What happens when Xander gets called up to Pawtucket? He probably goes over to Providence for some Italian food.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    Bogy will need to make the adjustments at AA before advancing to AAA. In 23 games Bogy had 1 BB and 21 K's. So there very well could be a bit longer of an adjustment period as it looks like hes getting fooled by advanced pitching. He had a .948 OPS and overall did very good. Just something that I noticed that could be a concern.



    He'll ascend based on his abilty to compete and excell at each level...not before. The Red Sox don't need to rush the kid and won't. Dispite the clamoring for them to do so by our ardent fans and the omnipresent pressure of the local mediots. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to Beantowne's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Bogy will need to make the adjustments at AA before advancing to AAA. In 23 games Bogy had 1 BB and 21 K's. So there very well could be a bit longer of an adjustment period as it looks like hes getting fooled by advanced pitching. He had a .948 OPS and overall did very good. Just something that I noticed that could be a concern.

     



    He'll ascend based on his abilty to compete and excell at each level...not before. The Red Sox don't need to rush the kid and won't. Dispite the clamoring for them to do so by our ardent fans and the omnipresent pressure of the local mediots. 

     




    We agree completely on this. No need to rush anyone. We can always rent a 1yr FA like we did this year. besides, a lot can change in one season.

    Everything will be evaluated again at the end of the 2013 season. For now X will start in AA with a likely promotion to AAA, and if all goes well a Sept call up...

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    Has anyone actually seen Boagerts play?  You've actually watched him play 9 innings?  Or maybe you've seen him play 5, 10, 20 games?

     

    Anyone on this board actually done that?

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    Has anyone actually seen Boagerts play?  You've actually watched him play 9 innings?  Or maybe you've seen him play 5, 10, 20 games?

     

    Anyone on this board actually done that?




    Yup...Portland last year

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

     

    Has anyone actually seen Boagerts play?  You've actually watched him play 9 innings?  Or maybe you've seen him play 5, 10, 20 games?

     

    Anyone on this board actually done that?

     




    Yup...Portland last year

     




     

    How did he do playing SS?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to LR3683paw's comment:

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

     

    Has anyone actually seen Boagerts play?  You've actually watched him play 9 innings?  Or maybe you've seen him play 5, 10, 20 games?

     

    Anyone on this board actually done that?

     


    What's your point?

     



    My point is that there are people claiming Boagerts can't play SS and will never play SS - and they have never seen the kid play.

    Not even ONE game - never mond a sampling of 15 - 20 games.

    It's kind of an important part of forming an opinion on his SS playing ability.

    We have a bunch of internet scouts making declarative statements like "since we know he will never play SS..."

    We don't know that at all. 

    Let's see how he looks at Spring Training.  Would have been nice to let him and Iggy compete for the job in Boston.  But maybe they can still compete for the job in pawtucket.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    In response to LR3683paw's comment:

     

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

     

    Has anyone actually seen Boagerts play?  You've actually watched him play 9 innings?  Or maybe you've seen him play 5, 10, 20 games?

     

    Anyone on this board actually done that?

     


    What's your point?

     

     



    My point is that there are people claiming Boagerts can't play SS and will never play SS - and they have never seen the kid play.

     

    Not even ONE game - never mond a sampling of 15 - 20 games.

    It's kind of an important part of forming an opinion on his SS playing ability.

    We have a bunch of internet scouts making declarative statements like "since we know he will never play SS..."

    We don't know that at all. 

    Let's see how he looks at Spring Training.  Would have been nice to let him and Iggy compete for the job in Boston.  But maybe they can still compete for the job in pawtucket.

     



    I'm personally hoping Xander opens the year in Portland so I can catch him in a few games before his inevitable call up to Pawtucket.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to carnie's comment:

    I'm personally hoping Xander opens the year in Portland so I can catch him in a few games before his inevitable call up to Pawtucket.




    The conventional wisdom is he'll need to play every day - so you will probably get to see him in Portland.

    It will be good to hear how he actually plays at SS.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from rickerd2. Show rickerd2's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    It may be a positive if at some point he is at AAA with Iggy.  He can observe on a daily basis a master with the glove.  Of course, where X would be playing would be interesting to know.  Why not next to Iggy at third?

     

    What kind of arm does X have, any way?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

     

    Profar definitely is the SS. Ergo Bogaerts may well be playing 3rd or some other slot. Outfield maybe?

    The thing to remember about Bagaerts is that he hasn't played a lot of baseball. A guy like Cechinni has probably played twice as many games in his life. He needs defensive reps and is still raw offensively. That is part of his appeal. He is a tremendous raw talent. Leave him at SS at least in 2013.

     



    Then if you move him next year, we have to wait even longer for an adjustment to a new position and time taken away from working on his hitting.

     

    From what I hear, he's not going to be an above average SS, so why put it off?

     




    because scouts projections have been wrong before and they'll be wrong again.we're not going to know if he can be a ML SS if we don't let him try. Don't write him off just yet. and if he has to learn a new position in a year then so be it. It shouldn't hinder him too much

     

    Changing positions is not as hard you as you make it out to be. Worse athletes than XB have done it pretty quickly and still hold their own. Its not like he was an OF'er his whole life and is now going to be a catcher. Its SS (the most demanding IF defensive position) to 3B/1B. Its hardly a big deal.



    How many 6-3 SSs are or have been above average fielders?

    While moving a player might not "take much time", moving him to 3B (his most likely best slot), would also involve moving Middlebrooks to 1B.

    While I do think moving him now is the best idea, it's not urgent. I'm OK with waiting a year, but I do think the move should come sooner rather than later. With Iggy at SS in AAA needing FT play, and Boggy knocking on the AAA door, something may have to give this summer, unless Drew gets hurt and everyone moves up a notch.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    The Drew signing has gummed up the works. 

    The Sox should have boldly gone with Iggy as the projected starter in Boston.  Ciiaco as the untility guy.

    If Iggy had failed miserably - then you know he is not in furture plans.  I don't think he would fail miserably.  I think he could play great defense and hit .225 (two points higher than Drew hit last season).

    Iggy in Boston would have put Boagerts in Pawtucket.

    Everything is delayed by Drew. 

     

     

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    How many 6-3 SSs are or have been above average fielders?

    While moving a player might not "take much time", moving him to 3B (his most likely best slot), would also involve moving Middlebrooks to 1B.

    While I do think moving him now is the best idea, it's not urgent. I'm OK with waiting a year, but I do think the move should come sooner rather than later. With Iggy at SS in AAA needing FT play, and Boggy knocking on the AAA door, something may have to give this summer, unless Drew gets hurt and everyone moves up a notch.




    You might be right.  How many games have you seen Boagerts actaully play at SS?  10?  20?  more than that?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

     

    Profar definitely is the SS. Ergo Bogaerts may well be playing 3rd or some other slot. Outfield maybe?

    The thing to remember about Bagaerts is that he hasn't played a lot of baseball. A guy like Cechinni has probably played twice as many games in his life. He needs defensive reps and is still raw offensively. That is part of his appeal. He is a tremendous raw talent. Leave him at SS at least in 2013.

     



    Then if you move him next year, we have to wait even longer for an adjustment to a new position and time taken away from working on his hitting.

     

    From what I hear, he's not going to be an above average SS, so why put it off?

     




    because scouts projections have been wrong before and they'll be wrong again.we're not going to know if he can be a ML SS if we don't let him try. Don't write him off just yet. and if he has to learn a new position in a year then so be it. It shouldn't hinder him too much

     

    Changing positions is not as hard you as you make it out to be. Worse athletes than XB have done it pretty quickly and still hold their own. Its not like he was an OF'er his whole life and is now going to be a catcher. Its SS (the most demanding IF defensive position) to 3B/1B. Its hardly a big deal.

     



    How many 6-3 SSs are or have been above average fielders?

     

    While moving a player might not "take much time", moving him to 3B (his most likely best slot), would also involve moving Middlebrooks to 1B.

    While I do think moving him now is the best idea, it's not urgent. I'm OK with waiting a year, but I do think the move should come sooner rather than later. With Iggy at SS in AAA needing FT play, and Boggy knocking on the AAA door, something may have to give this summer, unless Drew gets hurt and everyone moves up a notch.



    Troy Tulowitski, Cal Ripken and Alex Rodriguez are all at least 6'3"...They all seemed to be pretty decent players.  What's with the height limit for Shortstops?

     
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