What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to LR3683paw's comment:

    Bogaerts will do his best. He will be more than adequate at SS but not close to Iggy. Boggy is already to big for SS and will add weight as he matures physically. He is such a promising batter with average and power that they will find a place for him at another position. Iggy is one of a kind that comes along once every twenty years. Boggy will be moved elsewhere  after this year ( if Iggy starts hitting) and wins the SS position. This was all stated in the thread of two weeks ago ( written by a scout who saw Boggy play many times in person)  that compared Boggy to Hanley. If you read the articles about Boggy then these questions have already been answered by scouts.

    Most of this thread wasn't even about this topic. Go back and read it. Many threads now days are just a convenient oasis for those who are thirsty to vent about anything and everything whether relevant or not. They come here for conflict. You play a vital role as does Georom and Softlaw. Without you three, there would be no easy targets. The smart ones here know the the targets are fake, phoney, contrived, dishonest, and insincere. Such is the Internet where anything goes.



    With Drew staying in town for a year, Iggy is slotted to start in the minors once again and likely open the 2013 season with the Pawtucket Red Sox manning the SS position.  And let's not forget that we have another highly touted prospect on the rise who happens to have the same position as Iggy right at this moment and considered as #1 prospect of this organization who will most likely start the season with AA team.  Bogaerts was so good last season that he had to split time between Salem and Portland and he will likely do the same this year but in the higher levels this season.  If Bogaerts continues where he was left off last season (92 ABs/ 5 HRs/ 17 RBIs/ .326 AVG/ .598 SLG/ .948 OPS), he will get promoted early in the season. If that's the case, is he going be challenged to play different position at Pawtucket or is Iggy going to sit?

    Above is the opening post of this thread. so if we break it down into it's components...

    >Drew was signed because the organization has judged that Inglesias is still not ready to be handed the starting SS job in Boston. Drew is a one year bridge to the future and could well be a two to three year bridge based on how well he performs and his health. If during the next two years none of our SS prospects prove to be ready...

    >Iglesias who just turned 23 will likely be the starting SS in Pawtucket and be given another season to continue to hone is batting eye. Given his league age IMHO this is his last chance to show that he has the game to be a starting SS in the big leagues...my guess is if not traded, that he'll be given the chance to play in Boston this year at some point...if and when he shows that his bat is ready...otherwise he's likely to be groomed as a utlility infielder making Ciriaco expendable...

    >Bogharts who is just 20 will likely start the year in AA where as a 20 year old, he'll be playing against players that are a year or two on average older than he. If he continue to tear the cover off the ball against advanced pitching and demostrates that he has the tools to be an everyday SS (he doesn't have to be a gold glover). He'll likely by years end find himslef in Pawtucket with Iggy moving to Boston or traded...Once there the development cycle continues and if Bogharts continues to tear the cover off the ball and demonstrates that he has the ability to play SS and hit even more advance pitching, then sometime in 2014 they'll give him his cup of coffee in the show and based on how he handles that experience. He'll be invited to the ML spring training camp in 2015 at the ripe old age of 22 and be given a shot at making the big club or head back to pawtucket and continue his quest..End of the day if he continues to play SS this season, that is where they see him playing at the next level...

    Don't forget that the one guys who's not a part of this discusion is our #12 prospect Deven Marrero who turns 23 this August and could well be in the mix too. Who like Iglesias is a plus defender...So if you look at the current depth chart @ SS. Drew vet-Iglesias 23-Marrero 22-Bogharts 20...It's called manpower planning and Cherington has set the team up so that he can fully evaluate each of them and allow them to show that they're indeed ready.

    Marrero scouting report from soxprospects;

    Scouting Report: Athletic player, with fast twitch reactions.  Compact swing.  Quick hands that generate plus batspeed.  Swing is on the level side.  Needs work keeping hands inside of the ball and using his hips more to create drive.  Swing can get choppy.  Will have to learn to use the whole field consistently as professional career begins to progress. Ability to create a lot of contact.  Below-average power potential.  Profiles as a gap-to-gap hitter, who can learn when to muscle up from time to time.  Shows eye to differentiate pitches, but can be impatience during at-bat.  Solid-average runner, who can project to steal bases from time to time.  Fluid actions at shortstop.  Solid-average-to-plus range.  Quick first step.  Level of engagement can drfit.  Has the tools to be a plus defender at the position.  Solid-average-to-plus arm.  Knows when he needs his arm.  Not much more room for physical development.  Will need to maintain athleticism with age.  Projects to stick up the middle.  Profiles as a major league regular who hits in the bottom third of the order with offensive development. 

    http://www.soxprospects.com/players/marrero-deven.htm

     

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:

     

    You keep using (single season) batting averages to compare players, in this case shortstop Drew's 2012 BA to shortstop Iggy's presumed 2013 BA.  Don't you realise how absurd you are? 

     




    You are so sophisticated that you are willing to ignore a .225 batting average.

     

    Think about that for more than a minute and stop being a lunatic.

     

     

     



    Just for fun, we can have a tag bet.  I'm willing to bet he hits over .225, even though you think that is absurd.  How about it?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    Of course Drew will hit more than 225.  People want to ignore a persons entire body or work and just focus on what happened most recently.  Unless it is an issue of age, the career norm almost always wins out.

    That isn't to say that I am in favor of the Drew signing, but if Drew gets at bats, any betting man with sense with bet that he hits his norm.

    His 162 game career average is 265 BA, 15 homers, and a 762 OPS.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

    Of course Drew will hit more than 225.  People want to ignore a persons entire body or work and just focus on what happened most recently.  Unless it is an issue of age, the career norm almost always wins out.

    That isn't to say that I am in favor of the Drew signing, but if Drew gets at bats, any betting man with sense with bet that he hits his norm.

    His 162 game career average is 265 BA, 15 homers, and a 762 OPS.



    I can any single stat point to make either a negative or positive picture for a player or team.  The NYY for example

    • Martin-Gone
    • Tex-.251 and only 123 games
    • Cano-Hit only .056 in the playoffs
    • Jeter-Hurt
    • Youk-Virtually cut from the RS
    • Gardner-Hurt all year
    • Granderson-.231, 195 Ks, .000 in the ALCS
    • Ichiro-no power and 39 y.o.
    • DH-Don't even know who their DH is.

    So the NYY is likely to be top-4 in scoring despite having 9 holes in their lineup, notwithstanding that the Cano-hole is a real stretch.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

    Of course Drew will hit more than 225.  People want to ignore a persons entire body or work and just focus on what happened most recently.  Unless it is an issue of age, the career norm almost always wins out.




    Aren't you the guy who guaranteed that Bailey had electric stuff and would dominate when he returned from injury?

     

     

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:

    You keep using (single season) batting averages to compare players, in this case shortstop Drew's 2012 BA to shortstop Iggy's presumed 2013 BA.  Don't you realise how absurd you are? 


    You are so sophisticated that you are willing to ignore a .225 batting average.  Think about that for more than a minute and stop being a lunatic.

     



    Can you name a single MLB executive or analyst (other than Joe Morgan, a national figure of fun due to his antiquated views) that values BA the way you do?  It's horse-and-buggy thinking.  Forget the fact that Drew was coming back from a major injury so was far below his career norms at only age 29....his OBP was still .309 because he takes walks.  Now .309 isn't great, but is not a disaster for a SS.  Regardless, it's a far more relevant statistic than BA to be bleating about.  Maybe that's it....are you a sheep that's learned to type?  BA BA BA BA BAaaaaa

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

     

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:

    You keep using (single season) batting averages to compare players, in this case shortstop Drew's 2012 BA to shortstop Iggy's presumed 2013 BA.  Don't you realise how absurd you are? 


    You are so sophisticated that you are willing to ignore a .225 batting average.  Think about that for more than a minute and stop being a lunatic.

     



    Can you name a single MLB executive or analyst (other than Joe Morgan, a national figure of fun due to his antiquated views) that values BA the way you do? 




    Can you name anyone associated with baseball that thinks a .225 average is a good thing?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

     

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:

     

    You keep using (single season) batting averages to compare players, in this case shortstop Drew's 2012 BA to shortstop Iggy's presumed 2013 BA.  Don't you realise how absurd you are? 

     




    You are so sophisticated that you are willing to ignore a .225 batting average.

     

    Think about that for more than a minute and stop being a lunatic.

     

     

     

     



    Just for fun, we can have a tag bet.  I'm willing to bet he hits over .225, even though you think that is absurd.  How about it?

     




    I'm more than willing to follow Drew's performance right along with you all season - but I have no intention of having you "declare victory" if Drew bats .231

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    Post 1:

    Can you believe the popularity of this thread asking  what happens when Bogaerts gets promoted to the Pawsox? Does anybody really know the answer at this time? Unbelievable.

    Post 2:

    Bogaerts will do his best. He will be more than adequate at SS but not close to Iggy. Boggy is already to big for SS....

    Classic. You chastize others for trying to answer the question, then moments later, you attempt to answer the question.

    Then this...

    ...They come here for conflict. You play a vital role as does Georom and Softlaw. Without you three, there would be no easy targets....

    And, what "vital role" do you play on this site?

    Without you, this site would be way better off, and not one person on this site disagrees with that.  Stop and think about that for a minute or two, look in the mirror, and then ask youself why you are so obsessed about other posters motives, personalities, multiple personalities, and team affiliations.

    Please, just leave this site and do us all a huge favor.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    Of course Drew will hit more than 225.  People want to ignore a persons entire body or work and just focus on what happened most recently.  Unless it is an issue of age, the career norm almost always wins out.

     




    Aren't you the guy who guaranteed that Bailey had electric stuff and would dominate when he returned from injury?

     

     

     

     



    He does have electric stuff.  No I never guaranteed anything.

    What's up man you having a bad day again? Take a deep breath.  It will all be okay.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    Anyway that was a bizarre post by Schump.

    Point being that yes, normally whether it be Drew, or Bailey, that career norms win out over small sample sizes. Not sure why anyone would argue that was not true.

     I already said that I didn't like the Drew signing, but I can come up with better reasons then "he hits 225". He isn't a 225 hitter just because he was last year. All of us can figure that out just fine.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    I'm more than willing to follow Drew's performance right along with you all season - but I have no intention of having you "declare victory" if Drew bats .231

    Thank you, this is exactly how it should work.  Now you are up to .231 from .225.

    I am willing to wager that Drew bats over .231.

    Any takers?

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:

     

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

     

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:

    You keep using (single season) batting averages to compare players, in this case shortstop Drew's 2012 BA to shortstop Iggy's presumed 2013 BA.  Don't you realise how absurd you are? 


    You are so sophisticated that you are willing to ignore a .225 batting average.  Think about that for more than a minute and stop being a lunatic.

     



    Can you name a single MLB executive or analyst (other than Joe Morgan, a national figure of fun due to his antiquated views) that values BA the way you do? 

     




     

    Can you name anyone associated with baseball that thinks a .225 average is a good thing?



    Clearly it's not, however if you add 100 points due to walks and add 40 homers you've got Adam Dunn. In my mind anything lower that 250 is cause for concern. 250 = 1 for 4....270ish is what I would consider to be the minimum standard for a starter...regardless of position....unless you play SS or Catcher at a gold glove level....then somewhere between 250 and 275 is exceptable.

    I get that on base pct has become the new standard for measuring the value of hitters due to the runs created stat that places a value on getting on base....however, there are times when all you need is for the hitter to make contact to produce a run. so all things being equal I'll take the guy with the 275/325 split over the guy with 250 /325 split. Batting ave is still a very important stat And when you combine that with good plate discipline you get a professional hitter...

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    I bet Drew hits over .250 and is on the DL for more than 15 days.

    I'll even give 2:1 odds.

    Any takers?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

     

    Can you name anyone associated with baseball that thinks a .225 average is a good thing?




    I can.  How about Major League Baseball itself?  You know, the league that added Adam Dunn to the all star team in 2012 despite his BA of .208 at the break. 

    Of course, no one thinks .225 is a good thing, it's just a minor thing in the larger scheme.  You are just clinging to your 1950s back-of-the-baseball-card philosophy.

    Now, can you name those executives that share your horse-and-buggy thinking on BA?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from sundvl20. Show sundvl20's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    work x in lf this year. opening day 2014 I would like to see is x in lf, middlebroods at 3rd, marrero at ss, pedroia at 2nd, buy a 1b. dont think iggy will ever hit better than a national league pitcher. never seen anyone as overmatched at the plate as him

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:

     

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

     

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:

    You keep using (single season) batting averages to compare players, in this case shortstop Drew's 2012 BA to shortstop Iggy's presumed 2013 BA.  Don't you realise how absurd you are? 


    You are so sophisticated that you are willing to ignore a .225 batting average.  Think about that for more than a minute and stop being a lunatic.

     



    Can you name a single MLB executive or analyst (other than Joe Morgan, a national figure of fun due to his antiquated views) that values BA the way you do? 

     




     

    Can you name anyone associated with baseball that thinks a .225 average is a good thing?

    if iggy could hit .225 i think thats a good thing..

    SG just quit...you and your stone age views are getting workon on this thead

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:

    Obviously he hasnt seen Bogy play...

    I've seen him play many, many, many times. He's been playing just down the road from where I live, with my Bible and my guns.




    Again, you're too funny!!

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from emp9. Show emp9's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    What's  the avg height of a MLB SS? I want to say 6'. Second baseman are shortest ( 5' 10" - 5' 11" ) on the field followed by SS, no? Weight wld eventually play a role down the line. 

     

    Who is projected ( or has ) to have a better throwing arm? WMB or XB? The better arm shld play 3B, typically. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from emp9. Show emp9's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    Lets not forget WMB was on his way to 30hrs, 100 RBI + before getting hit. His #'s wld be fine at 1B on any team, if they weren't a fluke that is.( Not that I think they move him there, im just sayin )

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I bet Drew hits over .250 and is on the DL for more than 15 days.

    I'll even give 2:1 odds.

    Any takers?

     



    No, it would take more than 2-1 for me to bet against 15 days of DL for any major league player ... if Cal Ripken still played, I might take him with only 3-1 odds.  If the guy who stated Xander only had a 10% chance of making the bigs before September 2014 is taking action I have a big sweaty pile of cash I'll wager on that.  Heck, I'd even give him a break and take it at 'only' 5-1 odds.

     

     

    On a more pertinent topic, as you said Moon, I will take the scouts' opinions on XB's ability to play short over my own.  So far, it seems like a majority of them are coming around to the possibility of him being viable at SS for a few years whereas a year ago most thought he would need to change position before making it to the bigs.  Based on that, I think the Sox FO would be foolish not to keep him at SS to see if he can stick there for a while.   Especially true with the questions about Iggy's ability to get to the next level and Drew leaving at the end of the year.  I'm not ready to remove either Iggy or XB from the list of potential starting SS next year without further developments.  Let 'em both play and worry about how it works out when we get there.  If Iggy can man SS in 2014 and not be a black hole at the plate, that's great.  If XB can be our SS and not kill our pitchers that's great too. Options are good.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to sundvl20's comment:

    work x in lf this year. opening day 2014 I would like to see is x in lf, middlebroods at 3rd, marrero at ss, pedroia at 2nd, buy a 1b. dont think iggy will ever hit better than a national league pitcher. never seen anyone as overmatched at the plate as him



    The kid has had just 83 MLB PAs spread out over 2 season. From this, you can really make such definitive judgements?

    He his .269 and .266 in the minors the last 2 years in almost 800 PAs. I'm not saying he can hit .260 in MLB this year, but I'd trust his 800 PAs in the minors about as much as his 83 PAs in MLB.

    There's no reason to think he can't hit .250 in MLB after an adjustment period. He may not- he may do better, but we don't know jack based on 83 PAs.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What happens when Bogaerts gets promotion to AAA?

    In response to 111SoxFan111's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I bet Drew hits over .250 and is on the DL for more than 15 days.

    I'll even give 2:1 odds.

    Any takers?

     



    No, it would take more than 2-1 for me to bet against 15 days of DL for any major league player ... if Cal Ripken still played, I might take him with only 3-1 odds.  If the guy who stated Xander only had a 10% chance of making the bigs before September 2014 is taking action I have a big sweaty pile of cash I'll wager on that.  Heck, I'd even give him a break and take it at 'only' 5-1 odds.

     

     

    On a more pertinent topic, as you said Moon, I will take the scouts' opinions on XB's ability to play short over my own.  So far, it seems like a majority of them are coming around to the possibility of him being viable at SS for a few years whereas a year ago most thought he would need to change position before making it to the bigs.  Based on that, I think the Sox FO would be foolish not to keep him at SS to see if he can stick there for a while.   Especially true with the questions about Iggy's ability to get to the next level and Drew leaving at the end of the year.  I'm not ready to remove either Iggy or XB from the list of potential starting SS next year without further developments.  Let 'em both play and worry about how it works out when we get there.  If Iggy can man SS in 2014 and not be a black hole at the plate, that's great.  If XB can be our SS and not kill our pitchers that's great too. Options are good.



    I'm fine with giving him another year at SS. having plus offense from the SS position is a nice thing, but I just hope he's not ready to hit MLb pitching, but then has to stay in AAA to learn how to play 3B, 1B or LF. It wouldn't be the end of the world, but my own gut feeling, based on scouting reports by people who have watched him play more than any of us, is that he will probably be better at 3B.

     
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