In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

if iggy could hit .225 i think thats a good thing..

SG just quit...you and your stone age views are getting workon on this thead

In response to Softlaw1's comment:

Again, you're too funny!!

What's  the avg height of a MLB SS? I want to say 6'. Second baseman are shortest ( 5' 10" - 5' 11" ) on the field followed by SS, no? Weight wld eventually play a role down the line. 

 

Who is projected ( or has ) to have a better throwing arm? WMB or XB? The better arm shld play 3B, typically. 

Lets not forget WMB was on his way to 30hrs, 100 RBI + before getting hit. His #'s wld be fine at 1B on any team, if they weren't a fluke that is.( Not that I think they move him there, im just sayin )

In response to moonslav59's comment:

 

I bet Drew hits over .250 and is on the DL for more than 15 days.

I'll even give 2:1 odds.

Any takers?

 

No, it would take more than 2-1 for me to bet against 15 days of DL for any major league player ... if Cal Ripken still played, I might take him with only 3-1 odds.  If the guy who stated Xander only had a 10% chance of making the bigs before September 2014 is taking action I have a big sweaty pile of cash I'll wager on that.  Heck, I'd even give him a break and take it at 'only' 5-1 odds.

 

 

On a more pertinent topic, as you said Moon, I will take the scouts' opinions on XB's ability to play short over my own.  So far, it seems like a majority of them are coming around to the possibility of him being viable at SS for a few years whereas a year ago most thought he would need to change position before making it to the bigs.  Based on that, I think the Sox FO would be foolish not to keep him at SS to see if he can stick there for a while.   Especially true with the questions about Iggy's ability to get to the next level and Drew leaving at the end of the year.  I'm not ready to remove either Iggy or XB from the list of potential starting SS next year without further developments.  Let 'em both play and worry about how it works out when we get there.  If Iggy can man SS in 2014 and not be a black hole at the plate, that's great.  If XB can be our SS and not kill our pitchers that's great too. Options are good.

In response to sundvl20's comment:

The kid has had just 83 MLB PAs spread out over 2 season. From this, you can really make such definitive judgements?

He his .269 and .266 in the minors the last 2 years in almost 800 PAs. I'm not saying he can hit .260 in MLB this year, but I'd trust his 800 PAs in the minors about as much as his 83 PAs in MLB.

There's no reason to think he can't hit .250 in MLB after an adjustment period. He may not- he may do better, but we don't know jack based on 83 PAs.

In response to 111SoxFan111's comment:

I'm fine with giving him another year at SS. having plus offense from the SS position is a nice thing, but I just hope he's not ready to hit MLb pitching, but then has to stay in AAA to learn how to play 3B, 1B or LF. It wouldn't be the end of the world, but my own gut feeling, based on scouting reports by people who have watched him play more than any of us, is that he will probably be better at 3B.

In response to moonslav59's comment:

+1

And to amplify, all the people who know Jose best, including Arnie Beyeler, are adamant in saying that he will hit. His biggest problem hitting wise is that his glove has always pushed him to at least one level beyond what his bat was ready for.

soxprospects.com:

Solid-average range, but losing footspeed as he gets bigger.   Needs to slow the game down defensively and resist the feeling to rush plays. Inconsistent with footwork and staying down on the ball.  Choppy at times with his movements and reactions.  Has been improving with his defensive technique, but does not look likely to stick at shortstop.  Will transition to third base or left field down the line.  Can stick on the infield. 

Says he "will transition to 3B or LF"...not might.

 

minorleaguebaseball.com:

The other concern for Bogaerts is defense. Currently a shortstop, he cut his error rate substantially this year, more sabermetric confirmation of subjective reports noting improved steadiness on defense. Whether he has the range to remain at shortstop once his body fills out is an open question; many scouts assume he'll end up at third base, or perhaps right field if Will Middlebrooks lays permanent claim to the hot corner in Fenway. Bogaerts should have the bat to play at either position.

 

Says, "many scout assume he'll end up at 3B..."

 

 

ESPN:

In terms of defense, he has demonstrated a slightly above-average arm and good hands, but his footwork is rough and he needs to slow down his game. Many scouts have projected that he could end up moving to left field or third base, especially if he fills out his frame a lot more. But both Bogaerts and Crockett see him sticking at shortstop for the foreseeable future. 

“In terms of long-term projection, we have been impressed by the strides he's made at shortstop in a short period of time,” Crockett said. “We have no plans to move him.” 

“I grew up playing shortstop and I’d like to continue playing shortstop in professional ball,” Bogaerts said. “But I would play anywhere as long as I'm in the lineup. Shortstop is a difficult position, but I think I get where I need to be with more training.” 

Bogaerts has centered his training this offseason on his defense and continued conditioning, but he also got some great experience with the Netherlands national team, which took home the gold medal in the 2011 Baseball World Cup (Aruba is an autonomous territory of the Netherlands). 

“I’ve been working out a lot in the gym this offseason, doing a lot of running and working to improve my defense,” Bogaerts said. “I've been in Aruba for most of the offseason because I played with the Dutch World Cup team -- the champion Dutch World Cup team.” 

In 2012, Bogaerts hopes to incorporate more athleticism into his game while keeping his mind in the right place. 

“I want to use my speed more in the coming season, in addition to improving my defense,” Bogaerts said. “Also, I have to always remember that the mental part of the game is very important. Playing this game, you're going to fail a lot. And you have to be able to deal with it.” 

 

Sounds a bit more friendly to Boggy staying at SS.

 

Baseballprospectnation:

Arm: Plus raw arm strength. Gets inconsistent with arm slot and footwork at times, leading to less zip on throws and a loss of accuracy. Should have true plus arm in time and can profile well at third base. Grade – 50/60
Fielding: Can handle SS right now. Good athlete and he moves well at the position. Has solid-average range to both sides and a high level of effort. Good hands and good first-step reactions. Range at SS is likely unsustainable given how body projects. Potential to be solid-average defender at 3B with good glove work and a plus arm. Grade – 30/50

 

fangraphs:

So will he move? Obviously Goldstien anticipates it. My Bullpen Banter colleagueAl Skorupa saw him on Tuesday and came away impressed with his current ability at short, noting he made every play whether it be in the hole or charging the ball. His largest concern – which I share from my looks at Xander earlier in the year – is that despite being a great athlete with a”well proportioned” body he could outgrow the position. In his chat yesterday, Keith Law of ESPN said something similar, “I think he ends up at third but there is some sentiment he could stay at short at least a few years; he’s a good athlete and while he’s going to get bigger he’s not huge yet.” Our own Mike Newman told me that Bogaerts has a 35% chance to stick at shortstop. However, because his bat is so dynamic Newman feels  the presence of Will Middlebrooks and Jose Iglesias could push him elsewhere on the diamond because their value is heavily tied to their defensive ability. Obviously opinions are split but let’s not concern ourselves with a shift to the outfield until the young Sox plays himself off short or third.

and this...

The big question with Bogaerts is his future defensive home. Currently a shortstop, there are concerns that the 6’3” infielder could eventually get too big for the position. The contact I spoke with, though, thinks he’ll remain at his current position stating that the prospect has made “impressive fundamental improvements.” He added that Bogaerts possesses a strong arm good range and athleticism.

"I just hope he's not ready to hit MLb pitching, but then has to stay in AAA to learn how to play 3B, 1B or LF"

>>Yes, this would be a bad thing.

"my own gut feeling, based on scouting reports by people who have watched him play more than any of us, is that he will probably be better at 3B."

>>I assume the RS player development folks are among those people and I'd be surprised if they weren't actively thinking about whether their top prospect can field SS in the majors.  I just don't see it as a likely scenario that they decide he's ready for the show but, oops we forgot to teach him to play a position he can field in the majors.  Like I said, over the past year the scouting consensus has shifted from "he is unlikely to  be able to play SS in the majors" to something more like "has a decent chance of being MLB SS for a couple years before he needs to change positions."  Time will tell, I guess.

Unless he has some kind of rare growth spurt @20/21, it's safe to say he'll be 6' 3" from now on.  I think its more to do w/ his eventual weight. Tulow , Jeter both are 6' 3" I believe. Make of that as you will. Personally, I think it's a better transition going from infield to another infield position than infield to outfield, but that may just be me. 

Maybe some of these guys who are thinking he can play SS are banking on his hitting outweighing his average or below average fielding at SS.  While that can happen (see Jeter), my own personal philosophy is to have a great fielding SS if at all possible. I don't hear anyone saying Boggy will be a very good or great fielding SS, so that is why I am leaning towards moving him sooner rather than later. 

I am not sureI agree with the Sox management's past SS decisions, and it seems they do not value fielding at SS as much as I do. I'm not saying I am right and they are wrong, but that is where I am coming from.

Of all of our prospects , Bogaerts is the most likely to not just become a regular starter in Boston , but to become an all star player. His hitting potential is above all the rest.  However , Iglesias should be the shortstop. Just looking at Bogaert's stats in the minors , it is apparent that he is not even close to Iglesias defensively.  Bogaerts can possibly move to third, with Middlebrooks moving to first. Other than that , he surely could learn to play a corner outfield position. 

In response to moonslav59's comment:

Yeah I read a lot of Iggy or Boggy, one or the other... Best case scenerio wld be both. If Iggy can hit 240-250 w/ a 300-ish OBP ... Well something respectable to justify his defense. & Boggy can learn another spot. Be a nice two-headed monster right there. I guess we'll find out soon enough. This yr or next. 

Meant justify him being there besides his def. 

In response to dgalehouse's comment:

Although I'd prefer Iggy at SS as well, in all fairness to Boggy, going by your criteria, Fldg%, POs, Assts per innings, Iggy and Boggy's fielding stats are not that far apart, (except for you favorite stat- errors) and I won't even get into the fact that Iggy played in the minors from ages 20-22, while Boggy from ages 17-19.

          Iggy  Boggy

GM      244   262

PO       338   377

A         681   706

RF/9  4.18  4.21

DP       146   135

E           32      68

F%    .970   .941

I'm not sure what is best, but I tend to think that a future IF like this might be pretty darn good:

1B: Middlebrooks

2B: Pedroia

SS: Iggy

3B: Bogaerts

 

seems like a nice problem to have......where to put all the talent......a lot better than worrying about where to hide the lack of it

In response to baddad's comment:

Yes, our extended future looks brighter than ever.

We also have Holt, Marrero, Vinicio, and Lin at SS as well, just in case Iggy doesn't work out.

In response to 111SoxFan111's comment:

I think it was me that made that claim. Again he's only 20 years old and has a handful of games in AA under his belt. I also stated that my timeline for his accent was based on his age and his arbitration clock and the current level that he plays. The questions that still linger about where he'll play at the next level. speak to where  he is in terms of his development. If he does make the jump sooner, it'll be due to his not having anything else to prove at the minor league level. If he goes out and tears up AA pitching this year and continues to post mid 900 OPS numbers and shows the ability to play SS at or near the major league minimum. I think they'll look to move him to AAA by years end and if he finishes this season in AAA and demonstrates that he can compete at a high level and tears the cover off the ball while in Pawtucket...Then the odds of him seeing time in the big leagues in 2014 increase to the 90 percentile. 

 

 

drew was brought in here for a reason. he will play the season out at the position, almost regardless of performance. ciriaco will spend time at short. injuries will dictate whether iglesias spends time in the majors this year or not. obviously iggy could be moved at some point in a trade. xb is likely to spend significant time at AA this year, and possibly the whole season. depending on xbs performance he will either make his way to AAA at some point or stay at the AA level. If he destroys it in AA the move might come a lot faster. only then will a decision have to be made about where he plays - 3b/1b/of... regardless, iggy could be with the big club or could have been moved by then. If he comes up and also destroys AAA pitching you might see him in september. VERY doubtful he gets to the major league level this year otherwise. there is no pressing need to rush him. and why waste a year of control to put a guy in a position he is not ready to be in and risk hurting his confidence and development? this team is not a player or two away from winning a championship. whatever people think about the acquisitions, they do seem to be setting the table for young players coming up in the next 2-3 years and I do think the idea is that if they are covered at the ml level at the present many of these issues will sort themsleves out. 

 

In response to moonslav59's comment:

Just as an overall thought to this thread, the Sox are apparently waist-deep in quality shortstop prospects.  Since the SS is usually thought of as being the most athletic person on the team, can that be a bad thing???

IMO this is just a matter of sorting things out, but I agree with Moon.  L-R across the IF = XB, Iggy, Pedey Middlebrooks.  And I have no problem telling WM that he's going to be playing 1B.  Youk transitioned from 3B to 1B very well and Middlebrooks would too. 

In response to S5's comment:

It's OK to wait to make sure this is the right plan, but we shouldn't wait too long for Boggy's fielding to come around out of some hope that we can get a great hitting SS who can field above average.

In response to moonslav59's comment:

I'd like to get an update on his size.  Soxprospects has him listed at 6-3, 175.  They then say that a move away from SS is likely when he fills out.  Has he started filling out?  What is his current weight?  How sure are we that he is going to fill out?

I think the answers to these questions will help us form an opion regarding whether he should be moved at this time.  If the doctors are confident he will be 205 lbs+, he should be moved immediately.  

I dont think its wise to call him up if he hasnt grown into his frame yet.  When players fill out, they usually have to become acustomed to their body and refine some mechanics.  Its in his best interest to do this in the minors.

Also: in the minors, he can stay on a high protein / high fat diet, which is critical for him at this stage.  That's right.  I want him to come to camp a little pudgy.  Help him fill out.

In response to Drewski5's comment:

Good points. I wonder what his current weight is.

In response to moonslav59's comment:

I like that lineup as a future infield. Hopefully , the near future. Cecchini could become a factor at some point , but I don't get too interested until a prospect succeeds at the AA level.  I don't understand your minimizing the importance of errors. They can hurt. From what I read , many of Bogaerts errors were throwing errors , and were certainly not subjective calls by the scorer. I don't think they keep UZR ratings for minor leaguers, but I would be pretty certain that Bogaerts will never have the range of Iglesias. Iglesias is an exceptionally good defender. Bogaerts could become a good one , but the best thing for the team would be for him to change position.