What I don't get?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    What I don't get?

    How did Gonzalez get all the way to the Dodgers unclaimed?


    Yes, he has a big contract, but it's a bargain compared to the recent ones signed by other slugging 1B. 

    How did Baltimore not calim him?  They tried to spend more money on Mark Teixeira 3 years ago.  They've used Jim Thome at DH this year!  How is that not a match worth trying a claim on?

    How did the Cardinals not claim him?  Gonzalez would be a great candidate to replace Pujols.  Yes, he is no Pujols, but he is a lot closer than Allen Craig.

    It seems odd to say, but Ned Colletti does get it...
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: What I don't get?

    In Response to What I don't get?:
    [QUOTE]How did Gonzalez get all the way to the Dodgers unclaimed? Yes, he has a big contract, but it's a bargain compared to the recent ones signed by other slugging 1B.  How did Baltimore not calim him?  They tried to spend more money on Mark Teixeira 3 years ago.  They've used Jim Thome at DH this year!  How is that not a match worth trying a claim on? How did the Cardinals not claim him?  Gonzalez would be a great candidate to replace Pujols.  Yes, he is no Pujols, but he is a lot closer than Allen Craig. It seems odd to say, but Ned Colletti does get it...
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]
    With their better record, the Cardinals had a lower priority than the Dodgers.

    The Adrian Gonzalez contract may compare favorably to those for Albert Pujols, Prince Fielder, Mark Teixeira, Ryan Howard and others, but a long-term contract is rarely a bargain. A contract is not necessarily a bargain just because it's better than a bad contract.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from GreenPartyCelt. Show GreenPartyCelt's posts

    Re: What I don't get?

    What I don't get are all the Red Sox fans who are thinking that this salary dump will be the basis of a miraculous rebuilding effort with great starting pitching around the corner....Like Felix??? I doubt it...Or another offensive superstar like Josh Hamilton..I'm sure he would love to be in the Boston media fishbowl with his history....
    I can see the Beckett dump, but I would never give Crawford up unless I got something serious back...Not Rubby, Loney and company...Then you throw in an All-Star 1B who is a very clutch hitter and plays great defense...Crazy...Absolutely crazy....
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rightymclefty. Show rightymclefty's posts

    Re: What I don't get?

    Allen Craig is htting .318, with 19 HRs, 68 RBI and a 961 OPS! He's 28 years old, and dirt cheap.
    Hell, I wouldn't want Gonzalez, and his 22 million, and .812 OPS, 149 points lower than Craig, when I could have a guy like Craig, and his production.
    As for Greenparty, Crawford reperesent THE WORST CONTRACT IN RED SOX HISTORY.
    Damned right they jumped at a chance to dump him. What could they get for a one armed OF, who can only pay LF, with not much power and horrid OBP.
    Good riddance!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: What I don't get?

    In Response to Re: What I don't get?:
    [QUOTE]Allen Craig is htting .318, with 19 HRs, 68 RBI and a 961 OPS! He's 28 years old, and dirt cheap. Hell, I wouldn't want Gonzalez, and his 22 million, and .812 OPS, 149 points lower than Craig , when I could have a guy like Craig, and his production.
    Posted by rightymclefty[/QUOTE]

    And plays anywhere,  and unlikely to ever do this again...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What I don't get?

    Dumping CC is worth giving AGon away for free.

    Any prospects we get are a bonus.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: What I don't get?

    " What I don't get are all the Red Sox fans"

    Wouldn't expect you to understand. That's ok, This is something only Red Sox fans can understand. Moving these contracts has to happen.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from GreenPartyCelt. Show GreenPartyCelt's posts

    Re: What I don't get?

    In Response to Re: What I don't get?:
    [QUOTE]Dumping CC is worth giving AGon away for free. Any prospects we get are a bonus.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]
    Moon....I have nothing  but respect for your baseball savvy...But this to me is about an ownership cutting its losses...Not about an owner committed to building a winning franchise...People will regret letting A-Gon and CC go for nothing in return...To assume all these fantasy trades will then shore up the Red Sox with that freed up money is very presumptuous in my opinion...And while Ciriaco and Middlebrooks are awesome, they cannot pitch...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What I don't get?

    Moon....I have nothing  but respect for your baseball savvy...But this to me is about an ownership cutting its losses...Not about an owner committed to building a winning franchise...People will regret letting A-Gon and CC go for nothing in return...

    1) I said I would do it for nothing, but we are getting some decent prospects. We could deal for Justin Upton, and all would be forgetten, right?
    2) To think we will not spend any of the savings on other players is not realistic. Yes, it will be hard to replace AGon's numbers, but replacing what CC has given us so far can easily be an improvement by just extending Ross and playing him in LF next year. Replacing what Beckett did this year is not impossible with a cheaper FA like McCarthy, Sanchez or Marcum, or we could deal for Shiled.

    To assume all these fantasy trades will then shore up the Red Sox with that freed up money is very presumptuous in my opinion...And while Ciriaco and Middlebrooks are awesome, they cannot pitch...

    Apparently, neither can Josh.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from GreenPartyCelt. Show GreenPartyCelt's posts

    Re: What I don't get?

    In Response to Re: What I don't get?:
    [QUOTE]Moon....I have nothing  but respect for your baseball savvy...But this to me is about an ownership cutting its losses...Not about an owner committed to building a winning franchise...People will regret letting A-Gon and CC go for nothing in return... 1) I said I would do it for nothing, but we are getting some decent prospects. We could deal for Justin Upton, and all would be forgetten, right? 2) To think we will not spend any of the savings on other players is not realistic. Yes, it will be hard to replace AGon's numbers, but replacing what CC has given us so far can easily be an improvement by just extending Ross and playing him in LF next year. Replacing what Beckett did this year is not impossible with a cheaper FA like McCarthy, Sanchez or Marcum, or we could deal for Shiled. To assume all these fantasy trades will then shore up the Red Sox with that freed up money is very presumptuous in my opinion...And while Ciriaco and Middlebrooks are awesome, they cannot pitch... Apparently, neither can Josh.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]
    Justin Upton will not come cheap...And I guess I just thought Crawford showed a lot of positive upside while he played with a damaged left elbow...Since he is not a pitcher, his long-term prognosis to come back from TJ surgery strong might be a pretty positive one...He certainly will not be firing 90 mph fastballs off of a pitchers mound...But I think that there is this fantasy baseball mentality afoot that the freed up money will NOW be spent wisely or even spent at all...Sure if you got Felix and some other decent starting pitching as a result of all this, I might change my mind...But something tells me that the King Felixes and other ace pitchers out there might not now want to come to the Boston fishbowl and pitch in the Fenway bandbox...And something tells me that offensive stars like Hamilton or even Upton might not want to deal with the media scrutiny either...And I am sorry, but to me letting go of A-Gon would be unforgivable...It is a BIG and LONG contract, and he is not hitting the number of homers that RSN expected...But he is still an offensive force and a pretty clutch hitter, as well as an excellent defensive first baseman...What I see next year is a gutted Red Sox team that Big Papi might even leave, a franchise that has been tainted and whose rebuilding project will not be a swift one...IMHO, RSN is in denial tonight...Big time...The catharsis of something "radical" being done might be nice, but the long term prognosis is a very questionable one...

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What I don't get?

    Justin Upton will not come cheap...And I guess I just thought Crawford showed a lot of positive upside while he played with a damaged left elbow...Since he is not a pitcher, his long-term prognosis to come back from TJ surgery strong might be a pretty positive one...He certainly will not be firing 90 mph fastballs off of a pitchers mound..

    One, my grandma could throw harder than CC on his best day.
    Two, even if 100% healthy for the next 5 years, CC might not even be worth $10M x 5.
    Three, I'd rather pay Ross $8M x 3 than CC $20M x 5.

    .But I think that there is this fantasy baseball mentality afoot that the freed up money will NOW be spent wisely or even spent at all...

    Excellent point, but I really see this as, we can't do any worse. I was laughed at for suggesting Adam Dunn in LF 2 years ago, but he now looks like a bargain compared to CC.

    Sure if you got Felix and some other decent starting pitching as a result of all this, I might change my mind...But something tells me that the King Felixes and other ace pitchers out there might not now want to come to the Boston fishbowl and pitch in the Fenway bandbox..

    CC is not coming here. They'd want out top 5-6 prospects, which I would give if his salary was $4M a year x 5.

    .And something tells me that offensive stars like Hamilton or even Upton mightvnot want to deal with the media scrutiny either...

    Could be, but Upton does not have 10/5 rights.

    And I am sorry, but to me letting go of A-Gon would be unforgivable...It is a BIG and LONG contract, andhe is not hitting the number of homers that RSN expected...But he is still an offensive force and a pretty clutch hitter, as well as an excellent defensive first baseman...

    I like AGon, but saying goodbye to CC trumps all. Most here said it couldn't be done. We need to pounce, or it would really be "unforgivable".

    What I see next year is a gutted Red Sox team that Big Paapi might even leave, a franchise that has been tainted and whose rebuilding project will not be a swift one...IMHO, RSN is in denial tonight...Big time...The catharsis of something "radical" being done might be nicce, but the long term prognosis is a very questionable one...

    I'm not predicting a WS run next year without these guys, but I do think we can win more than 2012, and with Bradley, Barnes, Bogaerts, Brentz and others rising quickly, I don't think the wait will be any longer than if we held onto these guys and had our hands tied on any trade or big signing due to finances.

    I could see us trading Lava and another top prospect or tow for Shields.
    I could see us trading Doubront, Brentz, Iggy, Melancon, and Ranaudo for Justin Upton.
    I could see us signing Marcum, Ross and maybe even Montero.

    It may take more, but we have some prospects coming from LA ato sweeten the pot.

    We could see this...

    1) Ellsbury  CF
    2) Pedroia  2B
    3) J Upton   RF
    4) Papi       DH
    5) Montero C
    6) Midds     3B
    7) Ross       LF
    8) Salty/Gomez or bridge 1 year FA  1B
    9) Ciriaco/Aviles

    S1 Shields
    S2  Lester
    S3  Buch
    S4  Marcum
    S5  Morales
    S6  Lackey

    CL Bailey
    R2 Aceves
    R3 Breslow
    R4 Miller
    R5 Mortensen
    R6 Atchison/R Hill
    R7 Tazawa/Bard  

    I'm not saying this will happen, but we can instantly be better at way less the cost with this example.


     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: What I don't get?

    In response to "Re: What I don't get?": [QUOTE]Dumping CC is worth giving AGon away for free. Any prospects we get are a bonus. Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE] That is by far the dumbest post I've ever seen from you.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What I don't get?

    That is by far the dumbest post I've ever seen from you.

    Dude, we are spending $43M a year until 2017 on these two and CC is useless.

    You don't think we can get a 1Bman and LF'er better than these 2 for $42M?

    The fatc is, we can get a 1Bman, LF'er, SP and some super subs for that dough....

    every year for 5 more years.


    I'm not in favor of signing Hamilton or Greinke, and I don't think this is what the Sox have in mind, , but I'd rather have Hamilton (~$24M x 5) and Gomez/Lava at 1B (no added cost), and Greinke (~$19M x 5) than CC and AGon.

     Or, Ross in LF (~$8M x 3), Montero at C ($16M x 5), & Greinke ($19M)

    Or, ....
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter55. Show parhunter55's posts

    Re: What I don't get?

    Got to disagree with moon on this one.  Crawford may not be worth 20 million a year, but he is a good ballplayer and will put up some good years for LA if he goes there, mark my words.  And giving them Gonzalez to facilitate the Crawford salary dump is really ridiculous.  Gonzalez may not have hit the HRs we all expected, but he has been the best clutch hitter on this team for two seasons.

    The money saved is useful only if it is spent.  But spending it means more overpaid talent and bad deals. 

    I suspect that this trade, if it goes down is really about 2 things (neither a good sign for this team):  1) The ownership feels they can have a .500 team at far less money and much higher profitability...fans filled most of the seats for ove a year of dismal play, they'll continue to do it even if the roster is filled with decent, if not all-star caliber players; and 2) Gonzalez wants out in the worst way (maybe even asked to be traded after calling the anti-management meeting...one has to wonder why a player of his caliber does not want to play in Boston and how much that will affect others wanting to play in Boston as well.

    In any case...this trade is NOT going to improve this team, now or in the long run.  If I were working out this trade I would demand the top 4 starting pitching prospects the Dodgers have and take on James Loney as a favor.  Forget DeJesus and Sands.  Neither is a star in the making, and the Sox DO NOT have any need for so-so infielders and outfielders, regardless of their age.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: What I don't get?

    In Response to What I don't get?:
    [QUOTE]How did Gonzalez get all the way to the Dodgers unclaimed? Yes, he has a big contract, but it's a bargain compared to the recent ones signed by other slugging 1B.  How did Baltimore not calim him?  They tried to spend more money on Mark Teixeira 3 years ago.  They've used Jim Thome at DH this year!  How is that not a match worth trying a claim on? How did the Cardinals not claim him?  Gonzalez would be a great candidate to replace Pujols.  Yes, he is no Pujols, but he is a lot closer than Allen Craig. It seems odd to say, but Ned Colletti does get it...
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    It does seem curious that Gonzalez would'nt have been claimed by an American League Club. His limited no trade may have played a role, if for example the Orioles were on the list. The Sox would then have had to release him outright and allow the Orioles to assume his contract. Neting nothing in return. Aside from them the only other AL teams with the need, were the A's and Ray's, teams that clearly can't afford a player making 20M per...

    In the National League; The Cardinals didn't have the chance to put in a claim based on the current standings (see below)...Doubt they would have, if given the chance based on the money's owed. Aside from the Card's and Dodgers, the only other team in the NL Race that might have bitten was the Giant's...

    American League
    AMERICANW LPCTGB
    Texas74 51 .592 -
    NY Yankees73 52 .584 1
    Chicago Sox69 55 .556 4.5
    Tampa Bay70 56 .556 4.5
    Oakland68 57 .544 6
    Baltimore68 57 .544 6
    Detroit67 58 .536 7
    LA Angels66 60 .524 8.5
    Seattle61 65 .484 14
    Boston60 66 .476 15
    Toronto56 69 .448 18
    Kansas City55 69 .444 19
    Cleveland54 71 .432 20
    Minnesota51 74 .408 23
    National League 
    NATIONALW LPCTGB
    Washington77 48 .616 -
    Cincinnati76 51 .598 2
    San Francisco71 55 .563 6.5
    Atlanta71 55 .563 6.5
    St. Louis69 56 .552 8
    LA Dodgers68 58 .540 9.5
    Pittsburgh67 58 .536 10
    Arizona64 62 .508 14
    Philadelphia59 67 .468 19
    Milwaukee58 66 .468 19
    NY Mets57 69 .452 21
    Miami57 70 .449 21
    San Diego57 70 .449 21
    Colorado50 74 .403 27
    Chicago Cubs48 76 .387 29
    Houston40 86 .317 38
     
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: What I don't get?

    In response to "Re: What I don't get?": [QUOTE]That is by far the dumbest post I've ever seen from you. Dude, we are spending $43M a year until 2017 on these two and CC is useless. You don't think we can get a 1Bman and LF'er better than these 2 for $42M? The fatc is, we can get a 1Bman, LF'er, SP and some super subs for that dough.... every year for 5 more years. I'm not in favor of signing Hamilton or Greinke, and I don't think this is what the Sox have in mind, , but I'd rather have Hamilton (~$24M x 5) and Gomez/Lava at 1B (no added cost), and Greinke (~$19M x 5) than CC and AGon.  Or, Ross in LF (~$8M x 3), Montero at C ($16M x 5), & Greinke ($19M) Or, .... Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE] Who is we? Who cares what Henry and Co spend? What does it matter? What matters is a championship. The $$$$ are irrelevant , The value of a player should not be based on $$$$, but on desire, and a willingness to put team ahead of self. Podsednik is just as valuable as Agon. You guys act as though the salaries are coming out of your pocket. The only way it impacts you is in ticket and concession prices. Agon's salary is not hamstringing the Sox, nether was Beckett's or CCs. If you believe that the sox are financially strapped, that's idiotic. Beckett and CC needed to go but not at the expense of the best player the Sox have (had).
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: What I don't get?

    In Response to Re: What I don't get?:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: What I don't get?": Who is we? Who cares what Henry and Co spend? What does it matter? What matters is a championship. The $$$$ are irrelevant , The value of a player should not be based on $$$$, but on desire, and a willingness to put team ahead of self. Podsednik is just as valuable as Agon. You guys act as though the salaries are coming out of your pocket. The only way it impacts you is in ticket and concession prices. Agon's salary is not hamstringing the Sox, nether was Beckett's or CCs. If you believe that the sox are financially strapped, that's idiotic. Beckett and CC needed to go but not at the expense of the best player the Sox have (had).
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    Alright then, money means nothing.  Budgets mean nothing.  Pretty soon all tickets will be free too.......
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: What I don't get?



    Moon save your frustration---remember who you are dealing with. You are right---trade for Montero and Upton and sign Napoli as the 1B and Ross for LF. Montero may not be as good a catcher as Lav but he will rake at Fenway and perhaps take Ortiz's place as DH.

    Starting pitching --let's see what shakes out when the trade dust settles and we see how the prospects do in Sept.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: What I don't get?

    In Response to Re: What I don't get?:
    [QUOTE]Moon save your frustration---remember who you are dealing with. You are right---trade for Montero and Upton and sign Napoli as the 1B and Ross for LF. Montero may not be as good a catcher as Lav but he will rake at Fenway and perhaps take Ortiz's place as DH. Starting pitching --let's see what shakes out when the trade dust settles and we see how the prospects do in Sept.
    Posted by MadMc44[/QUOTE]

    Be aware of Upton.........
     
  21. This post has been removed.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What I don't get?

    Who is we? Who cares what Henry and Co spend? What does it matter? What matters is a championship. The $$$$ are irrelevant , 

    We do not have an unlimited budget, so yes, money does matter, and yes it is about evaluating who gets more bang for the buck-like it or not.


    The value of a player should not be based on $$$$, but on desire, and a willingness to put team ahead of self. Podsednik is just as valuable as Agon.

    Then we can sign 20 Pods with AGon's money.

    You guys act as though the salaries are coming out of your pocket.

    No I don't, but I know that Henry was not going to go to $200M, so it's give and take, like it or not.

    The only way it impacts you is in ticket and concession prices.

    Not really.

    Agon's salary is not hamstringing the Sox, nether was Beckett's or CCs. If you believe that the sox are financially strapped, that's idiotic. Beckett and CC needed to go but not at the expense of the best player the Sox have (had).

    I know Henry could pay $300M a year, but I also know he will not, and that is what you are ignoring. Our budget is limited, and our GM has to work within certain boundaries. Thinking that CC and Beckett weren't hampering our ability to field a strong team shows a glaring weakness in your thought proccess.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What I don't get?

    Moon save your frustration---remember who you are dealing with. You are right---trade for Montero and Upton and sign Napoli as the 1B and Ross for LF. Montero may not be as good a catcher as Lav but he will rake at Fenway and perhaps take Ortiz's place as DH.

    Miguel Montero is a FA.

    If we sign him, AZ needa a catcher and we'd have 3 (Montero, Salty & Lava). That's a start to building a trade for Upton.

    Don't short-changeMiguel Montero's skillset. He's only 29, and many catchers reach prime from 30-34. He has a career .348 OBP and is at .390 this year. He has 20 HR power. This year, he is on a 650 PA pace of .280  20  110. He kills RHPs, but struggles vs LHPs, so if we could find another Shoppach or use Lava vs LHPs at catcher, we'd have nice offense from the catcher position.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from rightymclefty. Show rightymclefty's posts

    Re: What I don't get?

    Anyone have any idea why Lin was recalled?
    Is there another move involving an OF in the worlks?
    Maybe Ross is going?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What I don't get?

    Ross is a FA after this year. He should be dealt, but told we want to sign him this winter. (LF and maybe DH)
     
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