In response to softlaw2's comment:

IB, Nap, Carp, Overbay, Gomez - Really?

Craze, yes, unfortunately, really! This is what happens when you sign FA "obvious to avoid like the plague" Crawbust. AGon was a great fit becuase he was the total package, even if the fans wanted 30 HR a year average out of him. It was truly absurd how he was scapegoated as "the problem", when he wasn't the Red Sox clubhouse tenured Union professor.

At the end of the day, most will never understand the true devastation domino affect of Crawford. You can see the damage it did, really!

This management doesn't anticiapte and plan, it reacts. That's what incompetence is.

AGon was a loss I agree, the rest can be corrected if we choose/trade which prospects and players we need for the future to fill voids.  The Sox consider 9 of our top 20 prospects pitchers, I only see a few that may stick. 

It's time to get creative if this FO has what it takes.

if one could go from last to contending w/ the top teams

without giving a large contract, trading a prospect or giving up a draft choice

why would anyone else ever do those things

B, Nap, Carp, Overbay, Gomez - Really?

Craze, yes, unfortunately, really! This is what happens when you sign FA "obvious to avoid like the plague" Crawbust. AGon was a great fit becuase he was the total package, even if the fans wanted 30 HR a year average out of him. It was truly absurd how he was scapegoated as "the problem", when he wasn't the Red Sox clubhouse tenured Union professor.

At the end of the day, most will never understand the true devastation domino affect of Crawford. You can see the damage it did, really!

This management doesn't anticiapte and plan, it reacts. That's what incompetence is.

AGon was a loss I agree, the rest can be corrected if we choose/trade which prospects and players we need for the future to fill voids.  The Sox consider 9 of our top 20 prospects pitchers, I only see a few that may stick. 

It's time to get creative if this FO has what it takes.

craze,

I think once they can see a little more development from some prospects they will have a clearer picture of what we have. Some may increase their worth, some may not. But I think this year is going to be a big evaluation year with our "kids"...I expect a few moves next offseason and even possibly in July...

Someone like Middlebrooks or Bogaerts or even Shaw or Cecchini may end up being our 1Bman of the extended future. I can see why we got Naps as a "bridge" or link to our next signing, but we might actually be waiting to sort out the SS/3B logjam.

In response to moonslav59's comment:

Lester and buchholz, at the very least, have to pitch up to their career norms and stay healthy.

Buch's career norm converted to 162 game season (highly debateable) is: 15-10 3.92  1.34.

Lester's career norm @ 162 games is 15-9 3.76  1.31.

These are nice numbers, and certainly both could do better or much better in 2013, but for years we keep expecting (or hoping/praying) that all goes well at the same time, but it has not worked out that way since 2007. The chances both of these guys put up these numbers or better is probably close to or below 50-50. Then, even if these two do well, we'll need plenty of help from 2-3 of the other SPs to have a good chance at advancing in the playoffs beyond the WC game. 

I'm not writing the 2013 Sox team off, but the odds are long... very long.

exactly...the question is not whether any of them can be very good - the question is when is the last time all 3 were at the same time?

In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

In response to ThefourBs' comment:

Perhaps because the "large contracts" and trades were deemed too risky this year?

Just a thought...

You make it sound like it's going to be a team strategy that will occur every year.

Kind of silly, if you ask me.

........................................................................................................................

You make it sound like it's going to be a team strategy that will occur every year.

Kind of silly, if you ask me.

where did I come close to suggesting that

I  questioned the likelihood of any last place team competing the next yr

without doing anyone of those 3 things

giving a large contract, trading a prospect or giving up a draft choice

unlike kimmi and others here, I would rather

my team gave up something to get something

'' no pain no gain''

As much as some would like to think so, the Sox are not a typical "last place team".

If you want to take the simplistic approach and say the Sox lacked talent last year and that's why they finished last, that your perogative, I suppose.

I think they finished last due to a lot of injuries, gross underperformance from talented players and a horrible manager.

If there are other last place teams ( I assume we're going by last year) that have the talent that the Sox have, feel free to name them.

The Sox (in and, I think ,Kimmi and I) think that reducing 2 of those problems and eliminating the 3rd, will allow the Sox to comptete for a wild card.

Doesn't seem all that unreasonable to me.

In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

Nothing like having a thread entitled "our concern" and get a Yankee troll to post his opinion by regurgitating 75 times that we were in last place. He also doesn't think we did the right thing this off-season by not sacrificing our prospects in the worst free agent market in years.

In his defense, he does say he comes here to keep fans real and make sure posters don't get too positive about the Sox.

Youi sure as heck do not keep things real.

In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

In response to Triumph-'s comment:

In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

Nothing like having a thread entitled "our concern" and get a Yankee troll to post his opinion by regurgitating 75 times that we were in last place. He also doesn't think we did the right thing this off-season by not sacrificing our prospects in the worst free agent market in years.

In his defense, he does say he comes here to keep fans real and make sure posters don't get too positive about the Sox.

Youi sure as heck do not keep things real.

Do you work for BDC? I'm just not getting your trolling comments on all forums on this site without any discussion of sports -- just insults -- and you're still going strong on to 600 posts. Something is not right here -- especially since you're an admitted Yankee troll and Sox fans have been banned for less.

yeah.....I am here waxing the floors and taking out the trash.....seem to be typing a post and responding to a BIG piece of trash right now.

Nothing like having a thread entitled "our concern" and get a Yankee troll to post his opinion by regurgitating 75 times that we were in last place. He also doesn't think we did the right thing this off-season by not sacrificing our prospects in the worst free agent market in years.

In his defense, he does say he comes here to keep fans real and make sure posters don't get too positive about the Sox.

In response to Beantowne's comment:

In response to Drewski5's comment:

Big market teams have an advantage.  We shouldnt operate like a small market team.  To do so would be to disregard our competitive advantage.

Hey Drewski,

I don't foresee us operating like a small market team. In fact if you look at the player aquisitions they've made this offseason they in fact haven't. Although they didn't sign what one would consider an impact player. They did spend a ton of dough and also took on the contract of Hanrahan from the Pirates. Lost on most is that the team is in a transistion period and patience will be the word of the day until they get a firm grip on what they have and what they need moving forward.

Major league Roster Questions:

1) Lester & Lackey; both are earning in excess of 13M each and under the teams control for a few more seasons. If both pitch to thier resumes the Sox will be in the mix. Of the two Lester's return to form has long term implications...is he the guy they build the staff around or not...the answer to that question will take all of 2013 to answer.

2) Buccholz & Dempster; Solid middle of the rotation near term guys. Buccholz upside is that of a #2 if he can pitch to that and stay on the field the question then becomes signing him to an extension once his current deal expires...Dempster is a one and done contract guy so they'll need to replace him and Lackey in two or three years....

3) Doubront and the kids on the farm. The long term 3 to 5 year and the near term 1 to 2 year plans is dependent on our abliltiy to develop the young guns in the system to provide cost controlled organizational depth. Doubront is the first in line to show that he's ready, willing and able to be a legit Major League starter. Last year he showed promise, in 2013 he has to continue to progress, prove that he can take the ball every 5 days and compete. If he does then they then have a solid nucleus from which they can allow the young gun in the system to mature and or use any number of combinations to trade for missing links on the major league roster....

What's Missing? A bonified top of the rotation starter! One that every time he takes the ball he says boys climb on board cause I got this. Every club needs a staff leader AKA Clemens to Pedro to Schilling to Beckett to job opening?

The Pen; This years group is solid and since most teams treat the bullpen as fluid each year it's not a long term concern. The only short term question is who's the closer for 2013 and beyond will they resign Hanrahan or let Bailey have another shot entering 2014. Not unlike the top of the rotation guy, the pen leads a leader too...The long term question of who that will be remains unanswered, the need is real...

Everyday players: Fact is they lack it! and it is defined as impact middle of the order bats...

Infield: Pedrioa is the only near and long term player that currently ranks in the top 5 at his position...Questions abound about the rest of the infield...

1B: Napoli is a bandaid and one that's perilously close to falling off...with no legit prospects on the horizon this could well be a position that remains fluid (Middlebrooks?)

2B; Pedrioa enough said.

SS: Drew's plyiong for a contract and could be a short term fix if he's healthly. Down on the farm we have multiple options...my guess is that they'll continue to allow Iggy, Marerro and Bogharts to show they have the ability to be an everyday ML SS...In the meantime continue to fill this on an as needed basis is search of the next Nomar. 2013 is IMHO Iggy last chance to show he's capable of being an everyday player...other wise he could well end up taking Ciriaco spot as a super utility guy...Bogharts is the one with the "it" the question is whether he can filed the position (3B?)

3B; It's Middlebrooks job to lose in the near term. If he hits .280 with 25 bombs and drives in 90 it's his for the long term too...Unless they move him to first to make room for Bogharts?

The Outfield; Let's not kid ourselves there's currently no long term locks on the roster and none of the current group nor the kids on the farm project to be impact bats...

LF; This is the 1# position IMHO where they have both the need and the roster flexibility to use thier resources to trade for and or sign an impact bat.

CF: The near term is Ellsbury & Victorino...the long term is Bradly JR. The only real question that remains is do they trade Ells or let him play it out...looks like they're going to let him play it out.

RF: Not unlike leftfield this is also a near term and long term position of need...what differs is that due to the spacious confines of RF in Fenway this is alos a position that requires a player that is a plus defender...one with range.

C; In the near term it's Salty's job to lose, the best prospect in out system, Swiihart is still "years away"...My guess is they they like SS postion our catcher of the future is not on our current roster...Near term I could see them signing Salty, if he continue to develop and Farrel buys off on him being the leader on the field...

DH; Ortiz then whom, this is another "impact bat position" where they don't have to place a premium on the players ability to field. One that they can use in many differing manners not a real worrisome long term nor near term issue...

The starting rotation in 2016.

#1 Job Opening

#2 Buccholz

#3 Job Opening

#4 Job Opening

#5 Doubront

The Pen

#1 Closer Job Opening....

#2....the rest of the pen...

The lineup in 2016

#1 Job Opening

#2 Pedrioa

#3 Job Opening

#4 Job Opening

#5 Middlebrooks

#6 Job Opniong

#7 Job Opening

#8 JOb Opening

#9 Job Opening

End of the day, the Sox are positioned to remake the team in any manner they choose....Down on the farm we've got some decent prospects whom should fill a few of the openings....bottom line is the need is greater than any one teams system can supply the nessasary player to fill all of our voids....unless you're ok with losing 100 games and bieng the Houston Astro's a solid AAAA club...

Good post Bean, we really do have a lot of issues.  I feel management lacks the creative insight to trade players we may not need for those who other teams might in order to solidify our future a bit better at all positions. 

When you look at this club there are really only a few "every day guys" I would consider untouchable at the moment like .... Papi, Pede, Victorino, Ross, Clay, Middy and a few relievers.  Then there are players like Ells, Lester and Lackey who need to prove themselves again to have any value at all.  Everyone else besides a few good prospects are just pieces to a very sketchy "short term" puzzle. 

No need to wait on issues we already know need to be addressed.

In response to ThefourBs' comment:

Perhaps because the "large contracts" and trades were deemed too risky this year?

Just a thought...

You make it sound like it's going to be a team strategy that will occur every year.

Kind of silly, if you ask me.

........................................................................................................................

You make it sound like it's going to be a team strategy that will occur every year.

Kind of silly, if you ask me.

where did I come close to suggesting that

I  questioned the likelihood of any last place team competing the next yr

without doing anyone of those 3 things

giving a large contract, trading a prospect or giving up a draft choice

unlike kimmi and others here, I would rather

my team gave up something to get something

'' no pain no gain''

In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

if one could go from last to contending w/ the top teams

without giving a large contract, trading a prospect or giving up a draft choice

why would anyone else ever do those things

We already had a solid core of good players. And it's not like the Sox didn't do anything this offseason. They spent a fair amount of money and added solid players, though they might not be the superstar names that some had hoped for.

As FourBs touched on in one of his responses, the 69 wins that the Sox had last year was not truly indicative of the talent/ability of the team. Just about everything that could go wrong last year did, from underperformances, to injuries, to the circus known as BobbyV.

I don't think we even need everything to break in our favor this year to contend. I think we just need to have better than average good breaks this season as opposed to having the inordinate amount of bad breaks, underperformances included, that we had last year.

I'm thinking if Francona cost the team about 7 wins every season, as many insist, then Valentine alone cost the team at least 10 last year. ;-)

As FourBs touched on in one of his responses, the 69 wins that the Sox had last year was not truly indicative of the talent/ability of the team.

some say U R what your record is

I told 4B's his point had more merit B4 the  punto trade

ok I'll B quiet

bottom line

it's spring training so we R allowed 2 believe anything is possible

including that  I might be right ;-)

In response to Beantowne's comment:

Where we difer is that I do think that Cherington has a plan...first and foremost is he needed to purge the lockeroom of the malcontents and begin constructing the team with players and managers that buy into the mission statement. He inhereted a team with a ton of bad contracts, one that lacked on field leaders. My guess is that if all goes well and Henry and Luccino don't cut his legs out from under him. That come 2015 or 2016 the makeup of the roster and the quality of the team's play will be of championship mettle.

Bean, I completely agree with the fact we did some things to right the ship.  What I doubt is whether we have the right mix of prospects for future slotsand feel we could easily package a few prospects and guys off the 40 man roster to get the right fits without hurting our current chances in the next couple of years. 

I also agree Ben will have an opportunity to grab a couple fA's at some point and the team isn't that far away from really being a contender but is our plan year to year, or more long term?  Also, will it hurt us defensively if our current prospects need to learn a new position at the last minute just to break into our lineup?

At the moment only Bradley Jr. appears to be destined to play CF to replace Ells.  Nothing else besides possibly De La Rosa and Barnes seem to be clear.  Even Iggy doesn't appear to have a spot on this team with Drew, Bogy and Ciriaco now in the picture and Lav?  Salty should be traded at some point to allow Ryan and Ross to catch, otherwise trade Lav if we really want Salty's low OBP in the every day lineup.  Lav deserves the same chance we handed Salty, it's pretty obvious our DH spot is filled so where are these guys futures?

I'm not sure we really have a plan at all moving forward.