What is the back-up plan for 1B?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from 808soxfan. Show 808soxfan's posts

    Re: What is the back-up plan for 1B?

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
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    In response to 808soxfan's comment:
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    In response to MadMc44's comment:
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    In response to boborielly224's comment:
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    In response to hill55's comment:
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    In response to NegativeTrollsAbound's comment:

    Smoke, mark my words.


    What does this mean?

     

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    I am trying to figure out this lingo also.

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    I think he meant Justin Smoak

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    WE don't have a seasoned 1 b in the system. Smoak wold give us a pretty decent guy we could platoon with Gomez--or go with Gomez and try to trade for Goldschmidt. Goldie would probably mean: Doubie, Boggie, Gomez, Holt and Webster for Goldie, Kubel and a prospect.

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    I don't think Goldschmidt warrants a trade including Bogaerts. I would go with Morales and Brentz or Morales plus any two high-end prospects that are not the 4 B's.

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    I can understand not wanting to part w Boegarts; however, you would get laughed at offering this package.  They dont want to trade their 25 yr old superstar.  Your offer of a middle aged RP and non-ranked prospect certainly wont get their attention.

    D'Arnaud is a much better prospect than Boegarts and it took him + another top prospect for 1 yr of a 38 yr old pitcher.

    Goldschmidt is 25 and will make < 1M next year.  You;d have to blow them out of the water.

    Bogerts, Morales, and Brentz isnt even enough.  Not saying I would offer this, just saying that if we did, they;d say no.

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    Hey Drew. Not sure that I really want him given other options. He can hit, but so can WMB. He is young, but he doesn't have Upton's pedigree at the same age.

    The 38-year old pitcher won a Cy Young. PG hasn't won anything...

    Still, I agree with your point that he is a proven commodity and will make less than $1M.

    I am not attached to Bogaerts, but I would rather throw him in at 1st than to trade him plus a good outfield prospect and a pitcher who may be middle aged, but has shown that he can pitch.

    Napoli/Gomez or Berkman/Gomez would work

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: What is the back-up plan for 1B?

    In response to 808soxfan's comment:
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    In response to Drewski5's comment:
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    In response to 808soxfan's comment:
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    In response to MadMc44's comment:
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    In response to Drewski5's comment:
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    In response to boborielly224's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to hill55's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NegativeTrollsAbound's comment:

    Smoke, mark my words.


    What does this mean?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I am trying to figure out this lingo also.

    [/QUOTE]


    I think he meant Justin Smoak

    [/QUOTE]

    WE don't have a seasoned 1 b in the system. Smoak wold give us a pretty decent guy we could platoon with Gomez--or go with Gomez and try to trade for Goldschmidt. Goldie would probably mean: Doubie, Boggie, Gomez, Holt and Webster for Goldie, Kubel and a prospect.

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    I don't think Goldschmidt warrants a trade including Bogaerts. I would go with Morales and Brentz or Morales plus any two high-end prospects that are not the 4 B's.

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    I can understand not wanting to part w Boegarts; however, you would get laughed at offering this package.  They dont want to trade their 25 yr old superstar.  Your offer of a middle aged RP and non-ranked prospect certainly wont get their attention.

    D'Arnaud is a much better prospect than Boegarts and it took him + another top prospect for 1 yr of a 38 yr old pitcher.

    Goldschmidt is 25 and will make < 1M next year.  You;d have to blow them out of the water.

    Bogerts, Morales, and Brentz isnt even enough.  Not saying I would offer this, just saying that if we did, they;d say no.

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    Hey Drew. Not sure that I really want him given other options. He can hit, but so can WMB. He is young, but he doesn't have Upton's pedigree at the same age.

    The 38-year old pitcher won a Cy Young. PG hasn't won anything...

    Still, I agree with your point that he is a proven commodity and will make less than $1M.

    I am not attached to Bogaerts, but I would rather throw him in at 1st than to trade him plus a good outfield prospect and a pitcher who may be middle aged, but has shown that he can pitch.

    Napoli/Gomez or Berkman/Gomez would work

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    Thats fair; however, please keep in mind that if they floated PG out there, there would be 15 interested teams.  If the Sox offer doesnt impress them, they move on to the next buyer.  Teams arent looking for a fair package, they are looking for the best package they can get.  I think they could do better than Morales, Boegarts, Brentz.  I think someone would pay more.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 808soxfan. Show 808soxfan's posts

    Re: What is the back-up plan for 1B?

     

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    Thats fair; however, please keep in mind that if they floated PG out there, there would be 15 interested teams.  If the Sox offer doesnt impress them, they move on to the next buyer.  Teams arent looking for a fair package, they are looking for the best package they can get.  I think they could do better than Morales, Boegarts, Brentz.  I think someone would pay more.

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    I understand your point. I just don't think we need PG. Not at that price.

    The more I think about it, I would like to see Bogaerts and WMB as corner infielders in 2014-2015. I would rather that Iggy, or someone of his defensive caliber, stay at SS.

    Figure that if the Sox have Bogaerts, Iggy, Pedey, and WMB as an infield, it would leave alot of salary for starting pitching.

    2013: Naps/Gomez or Berkman/Gomez until All-Star break. After the break, if Bogaerts is doing well at AAA, it would become Bogaerts if Naps/Berkman are on the disabled list; otherwise, wait until September to call up Bogaerts. You have to think that if Papi's ankle acts up, we could have Naps as DH to save his hip.

    2014: Salty or Lav is with another team. If Gomez does well in his part-time role, trade him for prospects.  Naps/Papi at DH. Bogaerts/Naps at first. Bogaerts/WMB at third. If Naps does not join the RS in 2013, then Berkman is done, so Bogaerts is full-time at first.

    2015: Papi is done. Naps at DH. Bogaerts at 1st/3rd. WMB at 1st/3rd. If no Naps, then I am sure that we can find a DH or rotate players into the spot.

    Why do we need PG? If we aren't going to find a place for Bogaerts, then we should trade him.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: What is the back-up plan for 1B?

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:
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    I just believe that Lavarnway is going to hit at the MLB level.  The guy is a hitter - and that is the reason he needs to play some 1B - just to get ABs

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    Why would the Sox stick him at first when he's a better C than Salty? 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: What is the back-up plan for 1B?

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:
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    In response to Alibiike's comment:
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    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars's comment:
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    In response to Alibiike's comment:
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    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars's comment:
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    OPS

    2012:  Berkman .826, Napoli .812

    2011:  B .959, N 1.046

    2010:  B .781, N .784

    2009:  B .907, N .842

    2008:  B .986, N .960

     

    Also:  Berkman is 6 years older, Berkman did most of the above in the NL, Napoli did most of the above as a catcher.

    If Napoli is healthy he is a FAR better choice than Berkman.

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    Look at their career clutch stats and try again. And Berkman's career OPS is .953 compared to .863 for Naps plus a .409 OBP compared to .356.
    Berkman has more experience playing 1B than Napoli and can play the OF as well.

     

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    Most of his best seasons were 5-15 years ago, hence my quick look at the past 5 years....even that is generous toward Berkman as he is 37 in February.  Berkman played 0 games in the OF in 2012, and is now a year older.  Playing is not the same as playing well.  Plus Napoli's ability to catch has more value than Berkman's ability to play the OF.

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    His 2011 season was one of his best and he played 123 games in the OF. He was hurt last year, only playing in 32 games. Plus his ability to play OF has more value than Napoli's ability to play 1B.

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    Well both would be 1Bman here on the Sox, so would you rather have  37 year old who could play OF or a 31 year that could play catcher. Catcher's are much harder to fine. If the Red Sox went with Berkman you would be switch the names but your song would be the same.

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    The Sox already have 3 catchers, why do they need a 4th? 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: What is the back-up plan for 1B?

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:
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    I just believe that Lavarnway is going to hit at the MLB level.  The guy is a hitter - and that is the reason he needs to play some 1B - just to get ABs

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    Why would the Sox stick him at first when he's a better C than Salty? 

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    if he was a better C than salty then salty would have been traded already. keep in mind lava may also be traded before the season starts. But as it stands now -discounting a trade- the depth chart at C will be salty, ross and then Lava in AAA.

    use your brain for once Ali

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What is the back-up plan for 1B?

    Salty & Lava are not options for 1B.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: What is the back-up plan for 1B?

    Mauro Gomez is the reigning IL MVP, and he won another MVP in the winter leagues.  If he was 3 years younger, we'd be salivating over him.  I say he deserves the shot, if the Napoli deal falls through.

    There's certainly nothing on the FA market that looks better, and I hate the thought of giving up a top prospect or two when in six months we could very likely either 1) be watching Gomez dominating AAA pitching or 2) have all the offense we need, but still be ten games out of the division.

     

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What is the back-up plan for 1B?

    If we end up with Mauro as our FT 1Bman in 2013, it will make all the signings we made this winter look even more foolish than thety already are.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: What is the back-up plan for 1B?

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    OPS

    2012:  Berkman .826, Napoli .812

    2011:  B .959, N 1.046

    2010:  B .781, N .784

    2009:  B .907, N .842

    2008:  B .986, N .960

     

    Also:  Berkman is 6 years older, Berkman did most of the above in the NL, Napoli did most of the above as a catcher.

    If Napoli is healthy he is a FAR better choice than Berkman.

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    Look at their career clutch stats and try again. And Berkman's career OPS is .953 compared to .863 for Naps plus a .409 OBP compared to .356.
    Berkman has more experience playing 1B than Napoli and can play the OF as well.

     

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    Most of his best seasons were 5-15 years ago, hence my quick look at the past 5 years....even that is generous toward Berkman as he is 37 in February.  Berkman played 0 games in the OF in 2012, and is now a year older.  Playing is not the same as playing well.  Plus Napoli's ability to catch has more value than Berkman's ability to play the OF.

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    His 2011 season was one of his best and he played 123 games in the OF. He was hurt last year, only playing in 32 games. Plus his ability to play OF has more value than Napoli's ability to play 1B.

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    Well both would be 1Bman here on the Sox, so would you rather have  37 year old who could play OF or a 31 year that could play catcher. Catcher's are much harder to fine. If the Red Sox went with Berkman you would be switch the names but your song would be the same.

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    The Sox already have 3 catchers, why do they need a 4th? 

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    The Sox don't already have 3 catchers by your reasoning;  they have about 15 in the organisation.  Only 2 will be on the MLB roster plus, possibly, Napoli.

    One pretty key additional aspect of Napoli's value (the primary being his bat):  to catch in NL parks, enabling our (presumably) best hitter to play at first.   There is also value to having an emergency (health/strategy) catcher in the ballpark on the night. 

    I don't assume that Ciriaco, for example, would be great if pushed into the OF in an emergency, but I'd be much more worried if he had to strap on catcher's gear!

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: What is the back-up plan for 1B?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
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    If we end up with Mauro as our FT 1Bman in 2013, it will make all the signings we made this winter look even more foolish than thety already are.

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    How would a Mauro Gomez Joe Hardy-like 2013 miracle at 1B reflect on the signings of a catcher, shortstop, left fielder, outfielder and starting pitcher?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: What is the back-up plan for 1B?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If we end up with Mauro as our FT 1Bman in 2013, it will make all the signings we made this winter look even more foolish than thety already are.

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    I don't see anything all that foolish - I see a handful of short-term signings designed to make us competitive while our prospects reach their potential.

    Giving up a second round draft pick (and maybe more importantly the slot cash) for Adam LaRoche is more foolish than giving Mauro Gomez a shot.

    Gomez actually hit righties better than lefties last year, in a short sample.  I don't know if he's a good platoon candidate. 

    Right now, do you see any better options, if Napoli falls through?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: What is the back-up plan for 1B?

    If we end up with Mauro as our FT 1Bman in 2013, it will make all the signings we made this winter look even more foolish than thety already are.

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    I don't see anything all that foolish - I see a handful of short-term signings designed to make us competitive while our prospects reach their potential.

    Giving up a second round draft pick (and maybe more importantly the slot cash) for Adam LaRoche is more foolish than giving Mauro Gomez a shot.

    Gomez actually hit righties better than lefties last year, in a short sample.  I don't know if he's a good platoon candidate. 

    Right now, do you see any better options, if Napoli falls through?

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    I have little faith in Gomez (though, as ever, high hopes!)....but LaRoche?  33-years old, 3-year (?) contract, career OPS .820, great fielder, would cost a 2nd round pick (if our 1st pick wasn't protected would anyone advocate spending it on LaRoche?  Shame we can't roll the protection to the next off-season, but there were no good risks to spend it on this winter). 

    I'd greatly prefer Napoli;  if his health is judged too risky I'd rather patch with Gomez/Papi in NL parks/Lav?/suprise?/other? than forfeit a 2nd round pick (like Pedroia....or Piazza (62nd) or a thousand others) for the privilege of overpaying for a medioce first baseman.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What is the back-up plan for 1B?

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:
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    In response to moonslav59's comment:
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    If we end up with Mauro as our FT 1Bman in 2013, it will make all the signings we made this winter look even more foolish than thety already are.

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    How would a Mauro Gomez Joe Hardy-like 2013 miracle at 1B reflect on the signings of a catcher, shortstop, left fielder, outfielder and starting pitcher?

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    The first base position in MLB is the major offensive position for most teams. Playing Mauro FT at 1B is conceding a huge differential loss against nearly every opponent we will play. It cancels out part of even most of the gains we may get from Victorino, Gomes, D Ross, and Dempster.

    It shows we are not serious about 2013, and further exposes the waste of money and other resources we spent trying to make us "competitive" in 2013, when we should have just came right out and siad this was a "bridge year" and made deals and signings accordingly.

    The chance that Mauro becomes even close to what the average MLB 1Bman produces in 2013 is remote, in my opinion. There are easily 30 better 1Bmen in MLB today. Sorry, if I can not be content about that. Sorry, if I can't let wishful thinking overide reality as easily as some here.

    I really can't see Ben thinking Mauro is a serious starting 1B option.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: What is the back-up plan for 1B?

    Maybe the Twins would take that loon Aceves and a second tier prospect for Morneau. Or even Bailey or Bard straight up.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What is the back-up plan for 1B?

    If we end up with Mauro as our FT 1Bman in 2013, it will make all the signings we made this winter look even more foolish than thety already are.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't see anything all that foolish - I see a handful of short-term signings designed to make us competitive while our prospects reach their potential.

    Giving up a second round draft pick (and maybe more importantly the slot cash) for Adam LaRoche is more foolish than giving Mauro Gomez a shot.

    Nowhere have I ever said I am for signing LaRoche and losing the draft pick and money for that draft slot.

    Gomez actually hit righties better than lefties last year, in a short sample.  I don't know if he's a good platoon candidate. 

    That is likely a fluke. His BAbip make me think that his pedestrian 2012 numbers may be the best he can be expected to ever give us.

    Right now, do you see any better options, if Napoli falls through?

    Yes, Bogaerts or Middlebrooks.  I'd even probably rather have Stephen Drew at 1B and Iggy at SS than Gomez as the FT starter. I even expect Salty is going to hit better than Gomez in 2013, so even though I have said Salty is not "an option at 1B" other than as an emergency fill-in, even starting him at 1B and Ross/Lava at catcher is possibly a better option than Gomez as our FT 1Bman.

    I had mentioned Kendrys Morales earlier, but he's gone and the one year of team control was worrisome (as with Morse). I suppose Butler may be an option.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: What is the back-up plan for 1B?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
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    Yes, Bogaerts or Middlebrooks.  I'd even probably rather have Stephen Drew at 1B and Iggy at SS than Gomez as the FT starter.

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    So you are saying just about anyone in the Sox organization can learn 1B except Lavarnway?

     

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: What is the back-up plan for 1B?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If we end up with Mauro as our FT 1Bman in 2013, it will make all the signings we made this winter look even more foolish than thety already are.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't see anything all that foolish - I see a handful of short-term signings designed to make us competitive while our prospects reach their potential.

    Giving up a second round draft pick (and maybe more importantly the slot cash) for Adam LaRoche is more foolish than giving Mauro Gomez a shot.

    Nowhere have I ever said I am for signing LaRoche and losing the draft pick and money for that draft slot.

    Gomez actually hit righties better than lefties last year, in a short sample.  I don't know if he's a good platoon candidate. 

    That is likely a fluke. His BAbip make me think that his pedestrian 2012 numbers may be the best he can be expected to ever give us.

    Right now, do you see any better options, if Napoli falls through?

    Yes, Bogaerts or Middlebrooks.  I'd even probably rather have Stephen Drew at 1B and Iggy at SS than Gomez as the FT starter. I even expect Salty is going to hit better than Gomez in 2013, so even though I have said Salty is not "an option at 1B" other than as an emergency fill-in, even starting him at 1B and Ross/Lava at catcher is possibly a better option than Gomez as our FT 1Bman.

    I had mentioned Kendrys Morales earlier, but he's gone and the one year of team control was worrisome (as with Morse). I suppose Butler may be an option.

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    Gomez won another MVP in the winter leagues.  He had an .878 OPS with the Atlanta AAA team in 2011.  Why do you think he would be so bad offensively at the next level?  What would you predict from him for a full season?  I'm thinking it would be between .800 and .850 OPS, which is not great for a 1B, but not a liability either.  I don't think LaRoche would do any better.  I doubt Bogaerts would be better in 2013 - soon yes, but not in 3 months.  Billy Butler would probably be better, but at what cost?

    There's no way Salty is better than Gomez - if anything translates to the big leagues, it's OBP.  I'd rather have Daric Barton than Salty at 1B.  Salty's good for a C, but by your same argument, no way on 1B.  Besides - if Salty is at 1B against righties, what do we do behind the plate?  I don't think Lavarnway catches more than 100 games - if Ross gets a ton of ABs against RHP, we're even worse off offensively.

     

     

     

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