What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    He had a stress fracture in his back. If that does not concern you at all, I do not know anything more to say, but my point is, why does anyone feel more confident about Buch now rather than this time last year?



    The answer to that should be obvious.  Last spring we didn't know if he would be able to get through the season.  He pitched 189 innings, and his back seems fine this spring.  Of course there's more confidence.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]
    There is no way anyone can honestly say they did not have higher expectations for our rotation last March than now. Our pen looks a lot better, but not enough to outweigh the SP'ers.

    [QUOTE]

    I just did. Mostly because of our starting depth. And Doubront not getting tired late. Guess I must be lying.

     

    [QUOTE]

    Last March, people were rejoicing in the fact that Lackey was not pitching, now they are praising him.

    [QUOTE]

     

    I am not "people". I liked Lackey until he got hurt. And I had doubts about Bard. Both have-had upside. Both could bust. I consider it even. Don't think this should be an amazing take. Lackey was a 6 WAR pitcher. And Bard was a middle reliever with shakey makeup and only 2 pitches.

    [QUOTE]

    Dempster is no Beckett.

    [QUOTE]

     

    Its close. You have seen their stats the last 3-4-5 years. There is not a huge difference. Still gave you Beckett. But its close.

    [QUOTE]

    Lester and Buch were coming off much better seasons in 2011 than 2012. It's a joke to pretend they have higher expectations now than then.

    [QUOTE]

     

    And they were either injured at the end of 2011 or lousy. And I called it even for both, so not sure who is joking or pretending.

     

    [QUOTE]

    People were gah gah over Bard or Aceves as starters last March. 

    [QUOTE]

     

    Like I said, I am not people.




     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    He had a stress fracture in his back. If that does not concern you at all, I do not know anything more to say, but my point is, why does anyone feel more confident about Buch now rather than this time last year?

     



    The answer to that should be obvious.  Last spring we didn't know if he would be able to get through the season.  He pitched 189 innings, and his back seems fine this spring.  Of course there's more confidence.

     



    He pitched worse though.

    I'm not more confident, but I guess I'm in a minority... again.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    Lester and Buch were coming off much better seasons in 2011 than 2012. It's a joke to pretend they have higher expectations now than then.

    [QUOTE]

     

    And they were either injured at the end of 2011 or lousy. And I called it even for both, so not sure who is joking or pretending.

    John Lester's ERAwas 3.32 on August 10th after being in the hgih .390's in June. He got it down below 3.00 in early Spetember and was at 3.15 on September 23rd. One bad game out of his last 2 starts (8 ER in 2.2 IP) brought his season ERA to 3.47. You call that "lousy"? I guess you could say he had  1 horrible start, 1 bad start (4 ER/4IP), 1 not good start (7IP/4ER), and 3 good starts 18 IP/ 3 ER total). I'm surprised that 3 bad games in September made you so pessimistic last March, but a whole season of 4.80+ ERA in 2012 followed by a nice ST has you oozing with giddy optimism.

    I'm sorry for implying you were part of the "people" last year. I didn't realize there were so many doubters last spring. I'm not saying I was high on the staff last year. I spent most of the winter arguing for trading to get a 1/2 slot SP. I said it was highly unlikely we'd win a ring without doing so. I still expected us to win 94 games. I was 25 games off. Now, with a team I think (my opinion) is worse on paper than the team we had last March, I'm just not seeing the reasons for optimism.

    Injuries hurt us badly last year, but we did get some spectacular and decent play from some players not projected to play a lot (Ross) or at all (Middlebrooks, Pods, Ciriaco). I like our bench, pen and SP depth this year, but I have always maintained that I'd rather have 3-4 solid starters in the playoffs than a buch of excellent 4/5 slot starters. 

    If an amzing confluence of events occurs this year, we could compete, but to me the odds are heavily against it happening. I'm trying not to let hope overcome reality. I think I did that to some extent over the last few years, and I'm trying to learn from my mistakes.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    What if we played it half way a bit...(from my original post)

     

    The team we have now, or spend the $120+M and have this team:

    C  Ross (Lava)

    C/1B Salty 

    1B/C/DH Napoli (Gomez/Carp)

    2B Pedroia

    3B Middlebrooks

    SS Iggy  (XB)

    IF Ciriaco (Holt)

    LF Gomes  

    LF/1B Nava

    CF Bradley

    RF Linares/Brentz (Nava)

    OF Sweeney

    DH Papi (1 year at $14M + incentives)

    SP A Sanchez, Lester, Buch, Lackey, Doub (Bauer/DLR/Webster)

    RP Hanrahan, Bailey, Uehara, Aceves, Breslow, Miller, Morales (Taz, Mort, Bard)

     

    Basically, the money spent on SV, Demp, Drew, Ellsbury, and one year of Papi went to A Sanchez, and Ellsbury was traded with some cash for Bauer.

     

    1) Bradley

    2) Gomes/Nava

    3) Pedroia

    4) Papi

    5) Napoli

    6) Middlebrooks

    7) Salty/Ross

    8) Linares/Brentz

    9) Iggy/Ciriaco

    Personally, I'd love to watch this team in 2013 more that the one we'd see this year with everyone healthy.

    If you don't like Sanchez, then we could have signed B McCarthy and Marcum and had many millions left over to upgrade at some other position (OF?).

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    i don't understand what our expectations for last season and this season have to do with our W/L record..

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In response to mef429's comment:

    i don't understand what our expectations for last season and this season have to do with our W/L record..



    It's a forum for debate. It's a topic for discussion.

    This board has had high expectations not met for the Sox for 5 straight years. I am asking why is this season any different? Maybe you think the question is absurd and not worthy of discussion; that's fine. Maybe you don't want to discuss alternative scenarios this past winter offered, but some of us do.

    In the grand sceme of life, last year's Sox expectations mean diddilee, but I thought I might mention that I liked our team at this time last March better than this team and we ended up winning only 69 games. To me, that is relevent to asking the question, why should we feel more confident about this year than last, and if the answer is, "we shouldn't" as I feel is the right answer, then the next logical step would be to ask, why didn't we instead begin to build a team geared towards winning in 2015 and beyond?

    As a biproduct of building such a team, I proposed that such a team might even be more fun to watch this year than the one we have. Maybe it might win 80 games instead of 84, but I feel it would be more enjoyable to watch, and give us more information about the status of our prospects going forward.

    If you'd rather us talk only about our W/L record, I suggest you start a thread on the subject.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    i don't understand what our expectations for last season and this season have to do with our W/L record..

     



    It's a forum for debate. It's a topic for discussion.

     

    This board has had high expectations not met for the Sox for 5 straight years. I am asking why is this season any different? Maybe you think the question is absurd and not worthy of discussion; that's fine. Maybe you don't want to discuss alternative scenarios this past winter offered, but some of us do.

    In the grand sceme of life, last year's Sox expectations mean diddilee, but I thought I might mention that I liked our team at this time last March better than this team and we ended up winning only 69 games. To me, that is relevent to asking the question, why should we feel more confident about this year than last, and if the answer is, "we shouldn't" as I feel is the right answer, then the next logical step would be to ask, why didn't we instead begin to build a team geared towards winning in 2015 and beyond?

    As a biproduct of building such a team, I proposed that such a team might even be more fun to watch this year than the one we have. Maybe it might win 80 games instead of 84, but I feel it would be more enjoyable to watch, and give us more information about the status of our prospects going forward.

    If you'd rather us talk only about our W/L record, I suggest you start a thread on the subject.




    I don't consider saying the Sox should be able to contend for a wildcard spot, which is what most posters are saying, as "high expectations".

    If there are posters expecting more than that, they're in the minority.

    The Sox earned high expectations in 2012.

    They were the best tean in baseball for 4 of the 6 months of the season.

    I didn't think it was unreasonable to expect them to get their crap together, at the start of last season.

    They didn't and the problem was compounded by the BV hiring.

    I expect Lester and Bucch to be much better this year.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    i don't understand what our expectations for last season and this season have to do with our W/L record..

     



    It's a forum for debate. It's a topic for discussion.

     

    This board has had high expectations not met for the Sox for 5 straight years. I am asking why is this season any different? Maybe you think the question is absurd and not worthy of discussion; that's fine. Maybe you don't want to discuss alternative scenarios this past winter offered, but some of us do.

    In the grand sceme of life, last year's Sox expectations mean diddilee, but I thought I might mention that I liked our team at this time last March better than this team and we ended up winning only 69 games. To me, that is relevent to asking the question, why should we feel more confident about this year than last, and if the answer is, "we shouldn't" as I feel is the right answer, then the next logical step would be to ask, why didn't we instead begin to build a team geared towards winning in 2015 and beyond?

    As a biproduct of building such a team, I proposed that such a team might even be more fun to watch this year than the one we have. Maybe it might win 80 games instead of 84, but I feel it would be more enjoyable to watch, and give us more information about the status of our prospects going forward.

    If you'd rather us talk only about our W/L record, I suggest you start a thread on the subject.

     




    I don't consider saying the Sox should be able to contend for a wildcard spot, which is what most posters are saying, as "high expectations".

     

    If there are posters expecting more than that, they're in the minority.

    The Sox earned high expectations in 2012.

    They were the best tean in baseball for 4 of the 6 months of the season.

    I didn't think it was unreasonable to expect them to get their crap together, at the start of last season.

    They didn't and the problem was compounded by the BV hiring.

    I expect Lester and Bucch to be much better this year.

     



    I expect them to be better than 2012 as well, but we need both of them to stay healthy and bounce back, plus others to do well to have a chance at just making the playoffs. I think it's a longer shot than many here believe, but hey, I've been wrong before... just look at last year.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    i dont know what people are smoking these days to make them think playoffs - maybe its cabin fever but this team is not better than the one that started last season...and based on some of the ages of the new players, it could be disasterous (think 2012 after the trade deadline)  Im hoping the pitchers finally bounce back a bit and get us to .500.  That would be a nice accomplishment.  Playoffs?

    fougatabouttiit

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In response to georom4's comment:

    i dont know what people are smoking these days to make them think playoffs - maybe its cabin fever but this team is not better than the one that started last season...and based on some of the ages of the new players, it could be disasterous (think 2012 after the trade deadline)  Im hoping the pitchers finally bounce back a bit and get us to .500.  That would be a nice accomplishment.  Playoffs?

    fougatabouttiit



    It's better just by not having an idiot for a manager.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    i dont know what people are smoking these days to make them think playoffs - maybe its cabin fever but this team is not better than the one that started last season...and based on some of the ages of the new players, it could be disasterous (think 2012 after the trade deadline)  Im hoping the pitchers finally bounce back a bit and get us to .500.  That would be a nice accomplishment.  Playoffs?

    fougatabouttiit

     



    It's better just by not having an idiot for a manager.

     




    +1

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    i dont know what people are smoking these days to make them think playoffs - maybe its cabin fever but this team is not better than the one that started last season...and based on some of the ages of the new players, it could be disasterous (think 2012 after the trade deadline)  Im hoping the pitchers finally bounce back a bit and get us to .500.  That would be a nice accomplishment.  Playoffs?

    +1

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    Im excited about farrell as manager (much to my own surprise)  i think he's going to be really good...but the players??????

    you cant fix old.....i hope he goes with youth as much as possible

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In response to georom4's comment:

    Im excited about farrell as manager (much to my own surprise)  i think he's going to be really good...but the players??????

    you cant fix old.....i hope he goes with youth as much as possible




    Who on the Red Sox would you classify as old besides Big Papi, Dempster and Lackey?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In response to carnie's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    Im excited about farrell as manager (much to my own surprise)  i think he's going to be really good...but the players??????

    you cant fix old.....i hope he goes with youth as much as possible

     




    Who on the Red Sox would you classify as old besides Big Papi, Dempster and Lackey?

     




    Uehara 38

    Papi  37

    Dempster 36

    D Ross 36

    Lackey 34

     

    Marginal past peak:

    Victorino 32

    Gomes 32

    Breslow 32

    Napoli 31 (bum hip)

    S Drew 30 (with injury history)

    Hanrahan 31

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In response to carnie's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    Im excited about farrell as manager (much to my own surprise)  i think he's going to be really good...but the players??????

    you cant fix old.....i hope he goes with youth as much as possible

     



    Who on the Red Sox would you classify as old besides Big Papi, Dempster and Lackey?

     

    were you asleep this past hot stove? was there anyone ben signed who was even in the late 20s?




     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to carnie's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    Im excited about farrell as manager (much to my own surprise)  i think he's going to be really good...but the players??????

    you cant fix old.....i hope he goes with youth as much as possible

     



    Who on the Red Sox would you classify as old besides Big Papi, Dempster and Lackey?

     

    were you asleep this past hot stove? was there anyone ben signed who was even in the late 20s?




     




    So what you're saying is that 30 is the new 40?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In response to carnie's comment:

    were you asleep this past hot stove? was there anyone ben signed who was even in the late 20s?

    So what you're saying is that 30 is the new 40?



    LOL looks that way, carnie.  And I think 32 is the new 45.

     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    The typical first-time free agent is 29-30.  Ellsbury will be 30 right at the end of this season. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    The typical first-time free agent is 29-30.  Ellsbury will be 30 right at the end of this season. 



    But the average FA is much older.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    Greinke & A Sanchez were 29

    (Both will be younger than Dempster is now during their last year of their deals.)

     

    E Jackson & B McCarthy are 29 as well

     

    BJ Upton 28 (He'll be as old is Shane during his 4th of the 5 year deal.)

     

    Melky Cab was 28

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    Greinke & A Sanchez were 29

    (Both will be younger than Dempster is now during their last year of their deals.)

     

    E Jackson & B McCarthy are 29 as well

     

    BJ Upton 28 (He'll be as old is Shane during his 4th of the 5 year deal.)

     

    Melky Cab was 28

     

    There were choices this year, some too expensive, some big gambles, and some for 5+ years, but the fact is, Ben did choose older FAs.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from emp9. Show emp9's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    i don't understand what our expectations for last season and this season have to do with our W/L record..

     



    It's a forum for debate. It's a topic for discussion.

     

    This board has had high expectations not met for the Sox for 5 straight years. I am asking why is this season any different? Maybe you think the question is absurd and not worthy of discussion; that's fine. Maybe you don't want to discuss alternative scenarios this past winter offered, but some of us do.

    In the grand sceme of life, last year's Sox expectations mean diddilee, but I thought I might mention that I liked our team at this time last March better than this team and we ended up winning only 69 games. To me, that is relevent to asking the question, why should we feel more confident about this year than last, and if the answer is, "we shouldn't" as I feel is the right answer, then the next logical step would be to ask, why didn't we instead begin to build a team geared towards winning in 2015 and beyond?

    As a biproduct of building such a team, I proposed that such a team might even be more fun to watch this year than the one we have. Maybe it might win 80 games instead of 84, but I feel it would be more enjoyable to watch, and give us more information about the status of our prospects going forward.

    If you'd rather us talk only about our W/L record, I suggest you start a thread on the subject.

    Why should you feel more confident about this yr than last yr? 

    Because we saw what last yr brought us. 

    I think you're over-rating Beckett, over-rating AGone. Don't think you've ever been guilty of over-rating CC. ;) 

    1) got rid of a LF that never really playedV& was horrible the 3 months he did. 

    2) rid of 1B that never matched expectations.

    3) rid of a SP on the decline & one I never personally wanted to re-sign in the first place. 

    4) rid of a shoddy manager & got someone familiar/great history w/ team.

    5) got some proven players on the flip.

    6) kept young talent we might need if/when injury bug comes back again ( apparently its already happening).

    7) maybe a FULL season of Pedroia, WMB, Ellsbury Buch.

    8) a real RFer ( Ells can play more center-left ).

    9) Better Bp

    10) Better @ C

    20 more wins, Hold me to it. 

     

     

     

     
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