What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In summary, I am not seeing anyway the higher 2013 SP expectations can be justified. In my opinion, there is just as much reason to think Lester, Buch, and Doubront will come close to their 2012 numbers rather than their 2009-2011 numbers. There was little reason to expect the 2012 numbers from these three last March. (I'll give Doubront's 2013 and edge though.) The Beckett-Dempster is clearly in beckett's corner to me. The Bard-Lackey is a toss-up that I could agree to give an edge to Lackey. The 6th starter role: advanatage 2013

     



    You can analyze it into the ground, in fact, no offence but you already have. :-)

     

    I guess my optimism is based on these reasons:

     

    1) I think Lester and Buchholz are both CAPABLE of pitching like good #2's.

    I think they can both pitch like #1s (assuming you count a number 1 as a top 30 MLb starter. I also think the upside on Doubront, Lackey and Dempster is perhaps being a decent #2 starter (top 31-60 MLB SP based on ERA, WHIP and other factors). My issue is that it takes too much "optimism" to believe (not wish) that enough of these guys can do well enough for us to have a top 4 to 5 AL rotation. Something I think we need to be a top ring contender.

     

    2) I'm hoping Doubront will be at least 10% better than he was last year.

    Very reasonable. 

     

    3) I'm hoping that Lackey's surgery has restored him to something resembling the pitcher we thought we were getting.

    I'm hoping too, but "hope and optimism" are different from reality and trying toformulate an  unbiased projection of what we should expect for 2013.

     

    4) Dempster - 180 innings, 4.5-4.7 ER.

    Agreed. At $13M a year, I'd expect more, but the choices were limited.

     

    I'm hoping that Salty really has improved, that Ross will be a good CERA guy, and that all the coaching and attitude changes will benefit the rotation. 

    I'm not sure Ross is that much better than Shoppach, but if he catches more innings than Shopp and Lava did in 2012, we could see an influence there. I am fairly confident that Salty will continue improving in 2013, and if we could see Iggy at SS and Bradley in CF, I'd start getting excited about a major improvement in run prevention from 2012 to 2013. (Major enough to seriously compete, perhaps.)

     

    I'm hoping that Aceves, Morales, Webster and whoever will be decent depth.

    Agree, and think it is reasonable to assume they should have higher expectation than what we had last year at this time.

     

    So yeah, a lot of hoping going on there, absolutely.  I'm choosing to be optimistic, unless and until reality slaps me upside the head, which it certainly may.

    Maybe we are arguing semantics here, and I realize my comparing March expectation fo 2012 to those of 2013 is not a usual way to look at things, but comparing this staff to the one of August-Sept of 2012 is also not a productive way to try and judge how much we have improved and what base point to choose from where we have to start from.

    Much is speculation, and although I use a lot of stats and trends to support my position, I also watch all the games and have played baseball for 25 years on my life. Much of my opinions are formulated and/or based on direct observation, and then I go look for evidence and data to support my opinion. Rarely do I look at data, and then create an opinion.

    I respect your views, and I am normally a very optimistic person and fan. Over the past few seasons, I have been one of the last fans on this forum to give up on the season. When things started poorly in the last few early seasons, sometimes I felt like a lone voice telling fans to hang in there, and we'd turn it around. I guess maybe part of it might be that I am tired of having cautious but high expectation dashed year after year, but I really do not see our signings of mediocre players and hopes that key players bounce back from poor seasons or downward trends as enough to feel strongly optimistic about the 2013 season.

    I do think we may sneak into the playoffs. I do not think we can seriously compete for a ring unless 3 staring pitchers do very very well. I know it can happen. I will cheer and pray it does. However, I do not think it will. I would not bet on it.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    moon, after that there ain't much more to say but 'Let the games begin'.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    moon, after that there ain't much more to say but 'Let the games begin'.



    I'm ready too!

    I'm hoping we see Iggy stay at SS after he proves his defense makes a difference, and I'm hoping after 11 days, we see Bradley come up and play CF full time. I'm not sure either happens, but that's my big sideshow interest.

    The SPs must come out strong. This is not likely a year where we can start out 12-18 and bounce back from it.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    moon, after that there ain't much more to say but 'Let the games begin'.

     



    I'm ready too!

     

    I'm hoping we see Iggy stay at SS after he proves his defense makes a difference, and I'm hoping after 11 days, we see Bradley come up and play CF full time. I'm not sure either happens, but that's my big sideshow interest.

    The SPs must come out strong. This is not likely a year where we can start out 12-18 and bounce back from it.



    i am also hoping for a good start out of the gate. the last few seasons we've struggled big time the first month of the season. Let's start this season off on the left foot and win some games! and with our first series being played against the AAA yankees + Youk & Cano we definitely should start out right.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

     

    With the intense rivalry among all five AL East teams, I predict a brawl by April 15th.   LOL

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

     

    With the intense rivalry among all five AL East teams, I predict a brawl by April 15th.   LOL

     




    i hope so.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

     

     

    With the intense rivalry among all five AL East teams, I predict a brawl by April 15th.   LOL

     

     




    i hope so.

     


     


    If I had to bet on who initiates the brawl, my money goes on Aceves.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

     

     

    With the intense rivalry among all five AL East teams, I predict a brawl by April 15th.   LOL

     

     




    i hope so.

     

     


     

     


    If I had to bet on who initiates the brawl, my money goes on Aceves.




    Gomes has never been one to back down from a scrap either.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    But there won't be any ARod to bodyslam.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    Or, VTek to do it.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In response to carnie's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

     

     

    With the intense rivalry among all five AL East teams, I predict a brawl by April 15th.   LOL

     

     




    i hope so.

     

     


     

     


    If I had to bet on who initiates the brawl, my money goes on Aceves.

     




    Gomes has never been one to back down from a scrap either.

     



    Gomes almost beheaded Coco Crisp a few years back.   Then a few years later, they ended up being teammates at Oakland.  Awkward.   LOL

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

     

     

    With the intense rivalry among all five AL East teams, I predict a brawl by April 15th.   LOL

     

     




    i hope so.

     

     


     

     


    If I had to bet on who initiates the brawl, my money goes on Aceves.



    I think Aceves is going to hit Jose Bautista with a fastball and then both benches will clear.  LOL

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

     

     

    With the intense rivalry among all five AL East teams, I predict a brawl by April 15th.   LOL

     

     




    i hope so.

     

     


     

     


    If I had to bet on who initiates the brawl, my money goes on Aceves.

     



    I think Aceves is going to hit Jose Bautista with a fastball and then both benches will clear.  LOL

     



    ace is too obvious. my money is on Doobie starting it

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

     

     

    With the intense rivalry among all five AL East teams, I predict a brawl by April 15th.   LOL

     

     




    i hope so.

     

     


     

     


    If I had to bet on who initiates the brawl, my money goes on Aceves.

     



    I think Aceves is going to hit Jose Bautista with a fastball and then both benches will clear.  LOL

     

     



    ace is too obvious. my money is on Doobie starting it

     




    Iggy goes deep on Joba and gets thrown at next AB. having flashbacks of almost getting beaned in the head by him, Youk then goes after Joba, forgetting which team he is on :)

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In response to UnionFallsNY's comment:

    You can't compare last year's team ito this year unless you include 32 trips to the DL this year with key players out for two months and several pitchers having off years. Assume those unexpected events and THEN compare. Everything went wrong last year. Assume that EVERYTHING will go wrong again this year and THEN make your comparison.



    I'm not assuming everything goes wrong, that is why I was comparing my expectations last march- not what happened in 2012.

    Also, this thread was supposed to be about comparing the traditional 25 man roster envisioned by most here vs one that included Iggy, JBJ, Tazawa, and Brentz/Linares in key roles.

    It looks like Iggy will start due to Drew's injury, but he will be sent down the second Drew is ready. JBJ has done everything possible to earn a slot after his 11 days are up, but that may not happen either, and if it does, he will be put in LF, even though he is better in CF than Jacoby. Same old Sox story.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    All the attention on JBJ has helped many neglect to care about Victorino's numbers. He's having a hard time.

    Gotta like this though:

    Lester  0.90  0.50 WHIP

    Buchh   0.96  0.86

    Demp   3.06   1.08

    Acev    3.00   1.33

    Webst  1.64  0.91

    Tazawa 3.48  1.16

    Uehara 0.00  0.63

    A Miller 2.45  0.82

     

    Hmm...

    Doubront  4.15  1.46

    Lackey      5.40  1.29

     

     

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In response to UnionFallsNY's comment:

    I noticed that also and have been wondering why Georom, Bill, and Softlaw haven't picked up on it and ran it up the negativity flagpole for all to see.  The forum could be livened up with some Shane bashing. The pot needs to be stirred. Go at it Georom, Bill, Softlaw, and Burrito.



    Yes, maybe softy can start 32 more threads and push the Wake & VTek thread to the 2nd page.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    I'm hoping Iggy and Bradley get long long looks. I guess that's about all I can hope for out of all the kids early this year.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    I'm quietly hoping Brentz will start out hot at Pawtucket and take a 2012 Middlebrooks-like path to the majors at some point this season. (Which is partially why the three years given to SV are the most befuddling of this winter's signings to me. Even if he performs to expectations, I think we'll be wishing he was out of the way as early as this summer.)

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

    I'm quietly hoping Brentz will start out hot at Pawtucket and take a 2012 Middlebrooks-like path to the majors at some point this season. (Which is partially why the three years given to SV are the most befuddling of this winter's signings to me. Even if he performs to expectations, I think we'll be wishing he was out of the way as early as this summer.)



    I'm hoping so too, but I'm not sure Brentz's numbers in AAA will translate so well into MLB- just a hunch.

    I like Linares to make a strong push as well.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    By June and maybe earlier, we will be seeing posters come out of the woodwork claiming they were against signing Drew, Dempster and Victorino from the start.

    Just watch.

    Well, June is when we can trade them.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    In response to UnionFallsNY's comment:

    You can't compare last year's team ito this year unless you include 32 trips to the DL this year with key players out for two months and several pitchers having off years. Assume those unexpected events and THEN compare. Everything went wrong last year. Assume that EVERYTHING will go wrong again this year and THEN make your comparison.




    Best quote of the day right here. People should just ignore the 2012 stats. It was just one of those yrs.

    1. Most DL days lost by players of any team since 1987

    2. A trade which basically gave up the season at trade deadline, how does anyone perform at their best under such circumstances?

    3. A manager who was out of touch w/ MLB player having not managed in over 10 yrs in MLB. A seriously bad decision that was one of the worst in recent times [Thanks Larry!]

    4. The firing and resignations of franchises best Mgr/GM combination the team has ever had.

    5. Trade that worked out terribly Reddick for Bailey.

    6. Nut case on the staff - Aceves

    Union you are absolutely correct in saying that anything that could go wrong did go wrong. Look this team basically won 90 games for 10 staright yrs and IMO was still reeling from the collapse of 2011, then add all the above and you have nothing short of a dissaster! Hopefully better days ahead.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from M1A2. Show M1A2's posts

    Re: What Team Would Have Been More Fun To Watch And Maybe Even Better?

    I honestly don't see how the Sox can get into the playoffs this year, but I do see some optimisim for going over .500.  With four games left in ST, the Sox lead MLB in team ERA, which is very unusual.  I don't think that's sustainable of course, but like to think the front line pitching could bounce back this year.

    The Sox are also dead last in ST in home runs--fewer than 29 other MLB clubs.  Hopefully, it's just a slow start, but as a minimum it's clear why the Sox re-signed Ortiz. 

    The good news on the lineup side is the young talent--Iglesias, Bradley, and Middlebrooks especially--that could make a real difference.  Combined with the hoped-for better pitching, it could make Sox games watchable if not always winnable. 

     

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