What was the best team of all time?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: What was the best team of all time?

    In response to GreenPartyCelt's comment:

    In response to prknsdnld's comment:

     

    In response to GreenPartyCelt's comment:

     

    Not sure why the 1963 Dodgers get so little love.....Koufax, Drysdale and company were largely unhittable and routed a not-too-shabby Yankees team...They might not be number one, but I think they should be rated higher than they are....

     




    Hardly a "rout" -5-2, 4-1, 1-0, 2-1. Pitching at it's finest.  

     

     



    Absolutely, prknsdnld. "Rout" is definitely misleading given how few runs were scored...What I was trying to convey was just how dominant the Dodgers pitching was.....As NHsteven mentioned, the Yanks were heavy faves and yet they went so quietly into that good night....A bit like the 2012 Yankee Hollow Men, whose ALCS world ended not with a bang but a whimper...The difference, of course, is that after Verlander, the Bengals pitching staff would have been no match for the 1963 Dodgers starting staff....Although I do wonder what a sophisticated computer program, trying to account for all the period-related variables, would reveal after 100's of simulations matching up Koufax against Verlander....

     




    Johnny Podres was no slouch either.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: What was the best team of all time?

    I've watched a lot of baseball since a boy and honestly of the teams I've seen can't pick one of them as being the most dominent.

    Here are a list of some of my favorite teams of all time in no order of preference except the year:

    1955 Brooklyn Dodgers

    1957 Milwaukee Braves

    1961 NY Yankees

    1963 LA Dodgers

    1973 Oakland Athletics

    1976 Cincinnati Redlegs

    1998 NY Yankees

     
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    Re: What was the best team of all time?

    In response to HelloItsMeAgain1's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    The tax rate is reset, but there's also a new penalty which has to do with forfeiting revenue-sharing money. and apparently that can be a hefty penalty in itself.  I think it's this new penalty that really motivated Hal to get the Yanks under the $189 million next year.

     

     

    I don't know all the details of it, all I know is I keep reading that the Yanks will be able to spend again after getting below the cap for one year.



    But if they go way over the cap in 2014 and some of it's long term deals their rate starts going up again and...

    This crap's getting too hard to figure out.

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from RickEO. Show RickEO's posts

    Re: What was the best team of all time?

     2004 RED SOX

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from GreenPartyCelt. Show GreenPartyCelt's posts

    Re: What was the best team of all time?

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

    I've watched a lot of baseball since a boy and honestly of the teams I've seen can't pick one of them as being the most dominent.

    Here are a list of some of my favorite teams of all time in no order of preference except the year:

    1955 Brooklyn Dodgers

    1957 Milwaukee Braves

    1961 NY Yankees

    1963 LA Dodgers

    1973 Oakland Athletics

    1976 Cincinnati Redlegs

    1998 NY Yankees



    Nice list, TWM.....As I mentioned in an earlier post, I think the 1963 Dodgers are underrated...Would love to see Verlander go up against Koufax in a computer simulation done a gazillion times....

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: What was the best team of all time?

    In response to GreenPartyCelt's comment:

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

     

    I've watched a lot of baseball since a boy and honestly of the teams I've seen can't pick one of them as being the most dominent.

    Here are a list of some of my favorite teams of all time in no order of preference except the year:

    1955 Brooklyn Dodgers

    1957 Milwaukee Braves

    1961 NY Yankees

    1963 LA Dodgers

    1973 Oakland Athletics

    1976 Cincinnati Redlegs

    1998 NY Yankees

     



    Nice list, TWM.....As I mentioned in an earlier post, I think the 1963 Dodgers are underrated...Would love to see Verlander go up against Koufax in a computer simulation done a gazillion times....

     




    Gpc

    Hated Koufax as a kid.

    1963 Dodgers a powerhouse. Shut the Yankees down in 4 straight.

    Different eras, but if you asked me to take one pitcher in his prime to start a must needed game I'd pick Koufax of all the pitchers I've watched in my lifetime.

    Koufax lost a few WS games however after 4 ws he had a career WS 0.95 ERA.

     

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: What was the best team of all time?

    I can't believe how little love the '27 Yankees are getting on this thread.

     
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    Re: What was the best team of all time?

    2011or 2012 Red Sox

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from GreenPartyCelt. Show GreenPartyCelt's posts

    Re: What was the best team of all time?

    I know it might be unfair, but...Were they in as good athletic shape as today's athletes...I doubt it....Maybe they were not using steroids but the Babe was both a smoker and a boozer....I guess that is even more of a testament to his talent, but I wish I knew what the median pitch speed was back then....Probably no stats on that, but I doubt the Babe had to hit too many 90 plus mile an hour fastballs...Anyway, carnie, I think the 1998 Yanks would have swept the 1927 Yanks in a virtual WS...IM(not so)HO.....

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: What was the best team of all time?

    In response to HelloItsMeAgain1's comment:

    In response to GreenPartyCelt's comment:

     

    I know it might be unfair, but...Were they in as good athletic shape as today's athletes...I doubt it....Maybe they were not using steroids but the Babe was both a smoker and a boozer....I guess that is even more of a testament to his talent, but I wish I knew what the median pitch speed was back then....Probably no stats on that, but I doubt the Babe had to hit too many 90 plus mile an hour fastballs...Anyway, carnie, I think the 1998 Yanks would have swept the 1927 Yanks in a virtual WS...IM(not so)HO.....

     



    It's all relative. 

     

    The Babe would have also had the benefit of today's training methods that todays players have. Not too mention the spitball was legal, the parks were HUGE, the beanball was part of the game and the bats and balls are different than today.

    On the other side of the coin, he played in an era before integration. Also, the fields were not in as good as shape today and the fielding gloves left a lot to be desired. The gloves might not have changed his HR's, but I would have to imagine it was certainly a boost on your BA.

    I read an article once that was about this hand - eye coordination test that has been around for over a century, and it said the only baseball player to score as high as Ruth was Pujols. I'll see if I can find the article.



    I recall that article as well.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from GreenPartyCelt. Show GreenPartyCelt's posts

    Re: What was the best team of all time?

    In response to HelloItsMeAgain1's comment:

    In response to GreenPartyCelt's comment:

     

    I know it might be unfair, but...Were they in as good athletic shape as today's athletes...I doubt it....Maybe they were not using steroids but the Babe was both a smoker and a boozer....I guess that is even more of a testament to his talent, but I wish I knew what the median pitch speed was back then....Probably no stats on that, but I doubt the Babe had to hit too many 90 plus mile an hour fastballs...Anyway, carnie, I think the 1998 Yanks would have swept the 1927 Yanks in a virtual WS...IM(not so)HO.....

     



    It's all relative. 

     

    The Babe would have also had the benefit of today's training methods that todays players have. Not too mention the spitball was legal, the parks were HUGE, the beanball was part of the game and the bats and balls are different than today.

    On the other side of the coin, he played in an era before integration. Also, the fields were not in as good as shape today and the fielding gloves left a lot to be desired. The gloves might not have changed his HR's, but I would have to imagine it was certainly a boost on your BA.

    I read an article once that was about this hand - eye coordination test that has been around for over a century, and it said the only baseball player to score as high as Ruth was Pujols. I'll see if I can find the article.



    The training methods are a big part of it, helloitsmeagain1, but the reality is they were not as "trained"...I am comparing the players/teams as they were, not with anachronistic adjustments...Still, I would be fascinated to read that article on the Babe....Not sure how they determined that Ruth had hand-eye coordination on a par with Pujols and superior to everyone, but I will keep an open mind...

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: What was the best team of all time?

    In response to GreenPartyCelt's comment:

    In response to HelloItsMeAgain1's comment:

     

    In response to GreenPartyCelt's comment:

     

    I know it might be unfair, but...Were they in as good athletic shape as today's athletes...I doubt it....Maybe they were not using steroids but the Babe was both a smoker and a boozer....I guess that is even more of a testament to his talent, but I wish I knew what the median pitch speed was back then....Probably no stats on that, but I doubt the Babe had to hit too many 90 plus mile an hour fastballs...Anyway, carnie, I think the 1998 Yanks would have swept the 1927 Yanks in a virtual WS...IM(not so)HO.....

     



    It's all relative. 

     

    The Babe would have also had the benefit of today's training methods that todays players have. Not too mention the spitball was legal, the parks were HUGE, the beanball was part of the game and the bats and balls are different than today.

    On the other side of the coin, he played in an era before integration. Also, the fields were not in as good as shape today and the fielding gloves left a lot to be desired. The gloves might not have changed his HR's, but I would have to imagine it was certainly a boost on your BA.

    I read an article once that was about this hand - eye coordination test that has been around for over a century, and it said the only baseball player to score as high as Ruth was Pujols. I'll see if I can find the article.

     



    The training methods are a big part of it, helloitsmeagain1, but the reality is they were not as "trained"...I am comparing the players/teams as they were, not with anachronistic adjustments...Still, I would be fascinated to read that article on the Babe....Not sure how they determined that Ruth had hand-eye coordination on a par with Pujols and superior to everyone, but I will keep an open mind...

     



    This is like saying Rembrandt didn't have the water colors Picasso had.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from GreenPartyCelt. Show GreenPartyCelt's posts

    Re: What was the best team of all time?

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    In response to GreenPartyCelt's comment:

     

    In response to HelloItsMeAgain1's comment:

     

    In response to GreenPartyCelt's comment:

     

    I know it might be unfair, but...Were they in as good athletic shape as today's athletes...I doubt it....Maybe they were not using steroids but the Babe was both a smoker and a boozer....I guess that is even more of a testament to his talent, but I wish I knew what the median pitch speed was back then....Probably no stats on that, but I doubt the Babe had to hit too many 90 plus mile an hour fastballs...Anyway, carnie, I think the 1998 Yanks would have swept the 1927 Yanks in a virtual WS...IM(not so)HO.....

     



    It's all relative. 

     

    The Babe would have also had the benefit of today's training methods that todays players have. Not too mention the spitball was legal, the parks were HUGE, the beanball was part of the game and the bats and balls are different than today.

    On the other side of the coin, he played in an era before integration. Also, the fields were not in as good as shape today and the fielding gloves left a lot to be desired. The gloves might not have changed his HR's, but I would have to imagine it was certainly a boost on your BA.

    I read an article once that was about this hand - eye coordination test that has been around for over a century, and it said the only baseball player to score as high as Ruth was Pujols. I'll see if I can find the article.

     



    The training methods are a big part of it, helloitsmeagain1, but the reality is they were not as "trained"...I am comparing the players/teams as they were, not with anachronistic adjustments...Still, I would be fascinated to read that article on the Babe....Not sure how they determined that Ruth had hand-eye coordination on a par with Pujols and superior to everyone, but I will keep an open mind...

     

     



    This is like saying Rembrandt didn't have the water colors Picasso had.

     



         Actually, nh, it's nothing like that..That analogy breaks down pretty quickly....What I am saying is that Ruth was probably not in the athletic shape that many players are today..Did he have great eye hand coordination? Of course. But I am just sceptical about his ability to hit 90 plus mile an hour fast balls with the same success rate that great hitters of this era do...Of course, he was not using steroids or other enhancements, like a number of players on the 1998 Yankees....That is probably where my argument remains somewhat flawed..I hope someone will post a link to the Ruth-Pujols article, because I have an open mind....

         This Yankee fan finds himself in the peculiar position of appearing to disparage Ruth's greatness....He still stands as the best player of all time because he has the accomplishments to prove it, including the fact that he was a dominant pitcher while he was on the mound...But I still do not believe the boozing smoker Ruth would not have had the same great results against today's superior pitching competition...

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from GreenPartyCelt. Show GreenPartyCelt's posts

    Re: What was the best team of all time?

    In response to HelloItsMeAgain1's comment:

    As far as how fast the pitcher's threw, I believe the earliest accurate recording was Bob Feller in 1937 or 1938. He it 98.5.

    So it doesn't sound impossible that some guys earlier were able to pitch in the 90's.



    Not sure why you are accusing me of being lazy because I have not had a chance to look it up yet, but I was hoping someone would just post the link....Quite rude of me...

         As for citing Bob Feller's throwing 98 mph, I think that clearly tells us a lot about 99% of the other pitchers in that era...You will have to work a little harder to make your argument cogent...We know that Feller had a monster arm...Limply stating that "it doesn't sound impossible that some guys earlier were able to pitch in the 90's" makes it sound like you are trying to win my argument for me....And I thought I made it clear that I do believe that the Babe was the greatest player of all time...My point is about the comparative athleticism of the players in that era and the modern era...

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from GreenPartyCelt. Show GreenPartyCelt's posts

    Re: What was the best team of all time?

    I also forgot to mention above that Ruth retired in 1935, and Feller began his career in 1936...Saying they are from the same era means someone thinks all those "oldtimers" played around the same time....

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from GreenPartyCelt. Show GreenPartyCelt's posts

    Re: What was the best team of all time?

    In response to HelloItsMeAgain1's comment:

    In response to GreenPartyCelt's comment:

     

    In response to HelloItsMeAgain1's comment:

     

    As far as how fast the pitcher's threw, I believe the earliest accurate recording was Bob Feller in 1937 or 1938. He it 98.5.

    So it doesn't sound impossible that some guys earlier were able to pitch in the 90's.

     



    Not sure why you are accusing me of being lazy because I have not had a chance to look it up yet, but I was hoping someone would just post the link....Quite rude of me...

     

         As for citing Bob Feller's throwing 98 mph, I think that clearly tells us a lot about 99% of the other pitchers in that era...You will have to work a little harder to make your argument cogent...We know that Feller had a monster arm...Limply stating that "it doesn't sound impossible that some guys earlier were able to pitch in the 90's" makes it sound like you are trying to win my argument for me....And I thought I made it clear that I do believe that the Babe was the greatest player of all time...My point is about the comparative athleticism of the players in that era and the modern era...

     



    The only one arguing is you.

     

    From what I read, there really wasn't much in the way of what we would deem "accurate measurement" prior to Feller. Does that mean that nobody in the prior 15 years of that test was able to come within 10% of Feller? Not that that offers any hard proof, but I would think the chances are pretty good. And just because they chose to record Feller, doesn't mean that some of his contemporaries didn't come close. You can read about many guys who faced both Feller and Walter Johnson and they say that Johnson threw harder. Does that offer accurate proof? Not in my opinion, but it means it must have at least been close.



    All I am saying, helloits, and I can hardly marshal any irrefutable proof, is that the Babe would not have fared as well against today's pitchers, and that today's players are more athletic overall compared to those from Ruth's era....And yes it is an argument or theory or whatever because we will never know for sure....

     
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