What would it take to get Ubaldo?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: What would it take to get Ubaldo?


     
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    In Response to What would it take to get Ubaldo?:
    What do you think it would take to get Ubaldo from the Rockies? I think the Red Sox could trade Kalish, Weiland, Doubront, Miles Head, and Michael Bowden and get the the deal done. What are your thoughts?
    Posted by redsox0426


    No where near enough. Your not looking closely enough at Ubaldo's age, performance away from home nor his salary the next 2 years.
    Bowden and Weiland project as AAAA type pitchers. Doubront hasn't the maturity needed to perform at the AAA level yet. Kalish is still fringe, he could go either way, but doesn't project to being anywhere near an impact player.
    I would assume that Ubaldo would need to return Ranaudo and Lavarnway from the Sox, as Lavarnway could project as a replacement to Helton eventually, and Ranaudo could project to a #1/2.
    I also think that numerous teams could offer a more enticing package than the Sox could with these 2 players.
     
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    In Response to Re: What would it take to get Ubaldo?:
    In Response to What would it take to get Ubaldo? : No where near enough. Your not looking closely enough at Ubaldo's age, performance away from home nor his salary the next 2 years. Bowden and Weiland project as AAAA type pitchers. Doubront hasn't the maturity needed to perform at the AAA level yet. Kalish is still fringe, he could go either way, but doesn't project to being anywhere near an impact player. I would assume that Ubaldo would need to return Ranaudo and Lavarnway from the Sox, as Lavarnway could project as a replacement to Helton eventually, and Ranaudo could project to a #1/2. I also think that numerous teams could offer a more enticing package than the Sox could with these 2 players.
    Posted by rkarp


    Wow, I agree with you 99%.  The only thing I'll challenge you on is that Kalish could become an impact player, although he certainly has a ways to go before he would get there.    Agreed on everything else though.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: What would it take to get Ubaldo?

    I was hoping of course to see Kalish this year, but like most any young player I saw a lot to not like last year. Not good pitch recognition, couldn't lay off of the high stuff and had trouble on the inside part of the plate. All issues that could be worked out and improved given time, or not. I have seen it go both ways.
    That being said I don't see that Kalish posesses a single great tool, never mind 2 or 3. Of course, you could say the same thing about Pedroia.
    Anyways, I think it is fair to say that "it remains to be seen" with Kalish, and to think that he is a center piece to get Uboldo is kind of silly.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsox0426. Show redsox0426's posts

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    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/778248-red-sox-trade-rumors-5-possible-moves-that-would-rattle-the-yankees/page/4

    The bleacher report proposes a deal where the Red Sox would be giving up Weiland, Lowrie, and Che-Hsuan Lin for Ubaldo. I would think that the two packages are fairly similar in terms of value.
     
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    Re: What would it take to get Ubaldo?

    In Response to Re: What would it take to get Ubaldo?:
    In Response to What would it take to get Ubaldo? : No where near enough. Your not looking closely enough at Ubaldo's age, performance away from home nor his salary the next 2 years. Bowden and Weiland project as AAAA type pitchers. Doubront hasn't the maturity needed to perform at the AAA level yet. Kalish is still fringe, he could go either way, but doesn't project to being anywhere near an impact player. I would assume that Ubaldo would need to return Ranaudo and Lavarnway from the Sox, as Lavarnway could project as a replacement to Helton eventually, and Ranaudo could project to a #1/2. I also think that numerous teams could offer a more enticing package than the Sox could with these 2 players.
    Posted by rkarp


    Great post with solid facts to back it up.I believe someone will overpay for Ubaldo because he seems to be a top of the line starter.IMO,a more realistic goal would be for the Sox to try and trade for someone like Kuroda from LA.He's a decent pitcher and is more of a second tier type of acquisition that the Sox can afford
    without totally draining their farm
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: What would it take to get Ubaldo?

    In Response to Re: What would it take to get Ubaldo?:
    I was hoping of course to see Kalish this year, but like most any young player I saw a lot to not like last year. Not good pitch recognition, couldn't lay off of the high stuff and had trouble on the inside part of the plate. All issues that could be worked out and improved given time, or not. I have seen it go both ways. That being said I don't see that Kalish posesses a single great tool, never mind 2 or 3. Of course, you could say the same thing about Pedroia. Anyways, I think it is fair to say that "it remains to be seen" with Kalish, and to think that he is a center piece to get Uboldo is kind of silly.
    Posted by rkarp


    Completely agree.  I do think that Kalish showed some encouraging things in AAA last year before his callup though.  5 HR's and 12 SB's in just 37 games, suggest that he has the potential to have a 20-20 season or 2 down the road, although that would likely be the peak of his power.  I don't think it's unreasonable to think he could be a 10-30 guy right now if he were healthy.  He needs to show better plate discipline as you said, but at the same time I can understand him being anxious at the plate his first time called up to MLB.  He was much more disciplined in AAA.
     
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    Re: What would it take to get Ubaldo?

    In Response to Re: What would it take to get Ubaldo?:
    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/778248-red-sox-trade-rumors-5-possible-moves-that-would-rattle-the-yankees/page/4 The bleacher report proposes a deal where the Red Sox would be giving up Weiland, Lowrie, and Che-Hsuan Lin for Ubaldo. I would think that the two packages are fairly similar in terms of value.
    Posted by redsox0426


    The bleacherreport proposal is even more laughable.
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from beavis. Show beavis's posts

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    Rockies are doing what Zona D-Back when they dangled BJ Upton last year: see what team is interested and that would overpay for that player...
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from wafostermisionero. Show wafostermisionero's posts

    Re: What would it take to get Ubaldo?

    rkarp is right!

    You have to put yourself in Colorado´s shoes for a minute. What the bleacher report is saying isn´t even a pipe dream. Lowrie? Injury prone. Weiland? Good Arm, secondary pitches are lacking. Lin I could see because he has some upside and is steadily improving. Great arm, great speed, solid pop in the bat, has made great strides at the plate this year...it will take Lin with at least 2 other top prospects like Middlebrooks and Lavarnway..and even that probably won´t get it done. Heck, I´m not sure Reddick, Lavarnway, Middlebrooks, Iglesias, and Droubant would get it done..there are not many young (favorable contract status) superstar pitchers who throw 98 mph with filthy secondary stuff on earth! Translation: We need to think like the Rockies GM not like a Sox fan.

    Oh and by the way, Sox won´t deal Ronaldo.

    Pray Buchholz gets healthy and you don´t need Ubaldo. SAVE THE FARM!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from CTJake14. Show CTJake14's posts

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    lavarnway at coors field ... [drool] for rockies fans.  so.  many.  bombs.
     
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    In Response to Re: What would it take to get Ubaldo?:
    rkarp is right! You have to put yourself in Colorado´s shoes for a minute. What the bleacher report is saying isn´t even a pipe dream. Lowrie? Injury prone. Weiland? Good Arm, secondary pitches are lacking. Lin I could see because he has some upside and is steadily improving. Great arm, great speed, solid pop in the bat, has made great strides at the plate this year...it will take Lin with at least 2 other top prospects like Middlebrooks and Lavarnway..and even that probably won´t get it done. Heck, I´m not sure Reddick, Lavarnway, Middlebrooks, Iglesias, and Droubant would get it done..there are not many young (favorable contract status) superstar pitchers who throw 98 mph with filthy secondary stuff on earth! Translation: We need to think like the Rockies GM not like a Sox fan. Oh and by the way, Sox won´t deal Ronaldo. Pray Buchholz gets healthy and you don´t need Ubaldo. SAVE THE FARM!

    Posted by wafostermisionero

    Excellent post.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mannyortez3424. Show mannyortez3424's posts

    Re: What would it take to get Ubaldo?

    Peter Gammons thinks Ryan Kalish will be a stud...

    That's all I care about...
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: What would it take to get Ubaldo?

    Completely agree.  I do think that Kalish showed some encouraging things in AAA last year before his callup though.  5 HR's and 12 SB's in just 37 games, suggest that he has the potential to have a 20-20 season or 2 down the road, although that would likely be the peak of his power.  I don't think it's unreasonable to think he could be a 10-30 guy right now if he were healthy.  He needs to show better plate discipline as you said, but at the same time I can understand him being anxious at the plate his first time called up to MLB.  He was much more disciplined in AAA.

    Actually Kalish could develop into a 22530 guy in Colorado.
    In Boston, I don't see him getting on base enough (so far). I also can't project him as a 20 hr guy, but then look at Ellsbury. Will his arm play in Fenway RF?  Of course, I would never write him off based on his play in Boston last year, especially because he was rushed...but I saw too much not to like. Lets give him many, many more PA's however.  
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: What would it take to get Ubaldo?

    In Response to What would it take to get Ubaldo?:
    What do you think it would take to get Ubaldo from the Rockies? I think the Red Sox could trade Kalish, Weiland, Doubront, Miles Head, and Michael Bowden and get the the deal done. What are your thoughts?
    Posted by redsox0426


    Just what the Rockies want; a ragtag team in return.  
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: What would it take to get Ubaldo?

    In Response to What would it take to get Ubaldo?:
    What do you think it would take to get Ubaldo from the Rockies? I think the Red Sox could trade Kalish, Weiland, Doubront, Miles Head, and Michael Bowden and get the the deal done. What are your thoughts?
    Posted by redsox0426


    I think you may be correct on giving the Rockies two pitchers like Doubront, along with Renaudo or Weiland but they would probably also want one or two guys like Kalish, Reddick, Middlebrooks etc.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: What would it take to get Ubaldo?

    It looks like Babe got banned again; I tried to respond to his post with a rare agreement; that a trade needs to be thought through from the other GM's POV, as  1st mentioned by wafostermisionero (interesting name) and Poof, his post was gone.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: What would it take to get Ubaldo?

    In Response to Re: What would it take to get Ubaldo?:
    Rockies are doing what Zona D-Back when they dangled BJ Upton last year: see what team is interested and that would overpay for that player...
    Posted by beavis


    Shouldn't Tampa file tampering charges if the D-Backs were shopping BJ Upton?  Now Justin Upton, on the other hand, is one hell of a player.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: What would it take to get Ubaldo?

    In Response to Re: What would it take to get Ubaldo?:
    He was much more disciplined in AAA. Actually Kalish could develop into a 22530 guy in Colorado. In Boston, I don't see him getting on base enough (so far). I also can't project him as a 20 hr guy, but then look at Ellsbury. Will his arm play in Fenway RF?  Of course, I would never write him off based on his play in Boston last year, especially because he was rushed...but I saw too much not to like. Lets give him many, many more PA's however.  
    Posted by rkarp


    IN the minors, Kalish has consistently posts OBP's above .350, so I'm not as concerned about his getting on base as he gets more experience at the AAA and MLB level.  As far as seeing him as a 20 HR guy at Fenway, just extrapolate his numbers at AAA over a full season.  In his first season at AAA, he was on pace for ~21 HR's and ~49 SB's.  He was even better at AA last year (where he started the season), with 8 HR's and 13 SB's in 41 games.

    Last year alone Kalish hit 17 HR's and had 35 SB's in 131 games while being rushed up through the system.  He may not have looked polished in any way at the MLB level, but he certainly has big time potential assuming he comes back from his shoulder injury alright.
     
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    Posted by ZILLAGOD
    maybe, after (the arrival of) dark
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from LB34. Show LB34's posts

    Re: What would it take to get Ubaldo?

    Dustin Pedroia.  I don't believe the Sox have the prospects to get Ubaldo because the Rocks will not be accepting anything short of can't miss kids.  We don't currently have any of those in our system.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

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    A bicycle license plate with his name on it!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from antibody. Show antibody's posts

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    A straight razor and a can of Barbasol.
     
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    Re: What would it take to get Ubaldo?

    In Response to Re: What would it take to get Ubaldo?:
    In Response to Re: What would it take to get Ubaldo? : Shouldn't Tampa file tampering charges if the D-Backs were shopping BJ Upton?  Now Justin Upton, on the other hand, is one hell of a player.
    Posted by JB-3
    The Rays were going to until they found out Joe Maddon and Evan Longoria asked the DBacks to help them out since the FO in Tampa was moving so slowly. :)

    It may turn out that Ubaldo becomes all that for more than half a season (last year) but right now with what the Rox will want in return for potential and a team friendly contract makes me feel that RS are well off to just pass go and collect their $200. 


     
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