When Albers was Recalled from the DL, Who would you have sent down, Wakefield or Aceves?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: When Albers was Recalled from the DL, Who would you have sent down, Wakefield or Aceves?

    If Wake's only role is to pitch in blowouts, then it is a waste of a roster spot.  Plain and simple. There seems to be zero confidence in him right now.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: When Albers was Recalled from the DL, Who would you have sent down, Wakefield or Aceves?

    Moon, why don't you care for Wake? You said you didn't like him that much.
    In what capacity?

    I didn't mean it the way it sounded. He just was never one of my favorites. Softy thinks I ove the guy, because I have defended him fo years against him and others that wanted him gone for years.

    I should hvae said, he's never been one of my favorites. Not because I don't like him, but just because I like others more. I love defense. I respect Wake. I have a connection to him in that I pitched a knuckler in softball for years. He's a model citizen. If that means he's a "good ole boy" to some, so be it.

    I till think there's a good chance he can do well this year. I'd be thrilled if he does, but not surprised if he doesn't,especially the way he is being used now.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: When Albers was Recalled from the DL, Who would you have sent down, Wakefield or Aceves?

    Well, I'll throw in my two cents: I don't like the fact Wake hunts animals for sport.  Beckett/Timlin and several others are also avid hunters. This really bothers me.

    But I don't believe is detrimental to the team. I separate my own fetish from theirs in this regard.

    Wake donates so much of his time and resources to charitable causes. He has given this team a great deal over the years - at team-friendly prices. Because of this, it has helped put the team in a position where they can spend money in other areas - money that would have gone to him.

    His charitable work affects other players in a positive way. It's contagious.

    When I see him sitting in the BP, I can't help but think "this isn't easy for him".
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: When Albers was Recalled from the DL, Who would you have sent down, Wakefield or Aceves?

    If you need a #6 and Wake is here, you have nothing. If you need a lefty and Oki is gone, you have Hill or Reyes.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: When Albers was Recalled from the DL, Who would you have sent down, Wakefield or Aceves?

    If you need a #6 and Wake is here, you have nothing. If you need a lefty and Oki is gone, you have Hill or Reyes.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: When Albers was Recalled from the DL, Who would you have sent down, Wakefield or Aceves?

    When people bashed Oki and Dice-K, I defended them as well.

    Did you defend Dice-K when he bumped Wakefield from the rotation, in 2010?

    If Wake's only role is to pitch in blowouts, then it is a waste of a roster spot.  Plain and simple. There seems to be zero confidence in him right now.

    That is all he is doing, and, like you say, that's not a role. The notion that Aceves needs to be stretched out is a joke. If that were true, he wouldn't have been Yo-Yo'd up and down. In addiiton to Aceves, they have Atchison, who was better than Wakefield last year (2010 ERA 4.55 2011 12.1 innings 1 earned run 0 Walks in AAA). In addition, Miller 13.2 IP  2 ER in AAA, Bowden 10.1 innings and 2 ER in AAA, 2010 Majors 15.1 innings 4.70 ERA, )
     
    No one can honestly say that Wakefield's departure leaves anything but a poor 9th or 10th starter out the door. A lot of bad starters are looking for work.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: When Albers was Recalled from the DL, Who would you have sent down, Wakefield or Aceves?

    You really want to bring up Miller this early? Bowden been given numerous chances at this level, never impressed to date, Athinson to date has been serviceable, but will never be anything more than that at best, he was ok last year in a terrible pen. One thing Wakefield has over all these guys is he's proven himself to be a top level MLB pitcher, is he over the hill/done?, maybe or is he just getting used to life as a reliever after starting for such a long period. Not willing to give up chance this early that he may end up being useful part of RS staff as part time starter, long reliever or mop up guy. Because none of the guys you mention has done nearly what Wake has done in his career. Aceves while he looks like he may help RS, is the guy Yanks gave up on because of bad back that he decided not to have surgery on, will he stay healthy? Lets hope so, because RS may need another starter at some point. Leave it alone and enjoy run RS are starting, take negativity elsewhere.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: When Albers was Recalled from the DL, Who would you have sent down, Wakefield or Aceves?

    When people bashed Oki and Dice-K, I defended them as well.

    Did you defend Dice-K when he bumped Wakefield from the rotation, in 2010?

    1) I did not defend Tito's decision to take Wake out of the rotation before Dice-K was ready. I did not bash Dice-K by having that position. As it turned out, I was right. Dice-K was not ready ad had a 7.89 ERA in those first 4 starts.

    2) I had said all along, I thought Dice-K should be the starter over Wake in 2010. Things changed when Dice-K got hurt.

    3) I have always used WHIP and quality starts % (and better than QSs %) as my preferred evaluation stats over ERA. I do value ERA, but not as much as others, and I do use several stats to back up my position. I do not cherry pick some stats for some players and the opposite for others as you do. I do not change time frame measurements like you do. Career for some, one year for others or even one AB for others. Your moving the goalpost constantly is absurd.

    If Wake's only role is to pitch in blowouts, then it is a waste of a roster spot.  Plain and simple. There seems to be zero confidence in him right now.

    I have said it several times before, but you don't read very well. You choose to only see what you want to see. I'll say it one more time: if Tito continues to use Wake as he has, then Theo should trade Wake as much for the good of Wake as for the good of the team. I said this before the season started and on several Wake-bashing threads since. Holding this position does not mean I have given up on Wake as a possible future contributor to this team. I think he can still be good, but we may never find out.

    That is all he is doing, and, like you say, that's not a role. The notion that Aceves needs to be stretched out is a joke. If that were true, he wouldn't have been Yo-Yo'd up and down. In addiiton to Aceves, they have Atchison, who was better than Wakefield last year (2010 ERA 4.55 2011 12.1 innings 1 earned run 0 Walks in AAA).

    Another example of cherry-picking time frames and stats. You know ERA is not an accurate stat to judge relief pitcher effectiveness, especially if they come in for 1 or 2 outs.

    In addition, Miller 13.2 IP  2 ER in AAA,

    Moving the goalpost again, I see. You use last year's cherry-picked ERA stats for some and AAA 2011 stats for others. Why not post Miller's 2010 numbers?
    Here they are:
    32.2 IP  51 H  26 BB  for an awful 2.357 WHIP and an 8.54 ERA
    Career: 5.84 ERA  1.736 ERA

    Just because he is a lefty, does not mean he is a better option than Wake or anyone else on this team. 


    Bowden 10.1 innings and 2 ER in AAA, 2010 Majors 15.1 innings 4.70 ERA, )

    Bowden had a 1.565 WHIP last year and has a career 1.679 WHIP.
    2010: 15.1 IP  20 H  4 BB
     
    No one can honestly say that Wakefield's departure leaves anything but a poor 9th or 10th starter out the door. A lot of bad starters are looking for work.

    A lot of worse starters are starting right now for many teams. If we have an injury to a starter or two, we will be relying on the hopes of several pitchers to fill their roles enough to give us a chance to win.

    Yes, it's been over a year and a half since Wake has put together many good games as a starter. Last year, he did not to badly as a reliever. #HRs in 10.1 IP this year is very troubling, but the sampole size is small.

    While his ERA number in 2010 was not good, he was not as bad as many want to believe. He was jerked around from starter to reliever, given many days off between work, and had little notice several times. Dice-K has not started due to injury only. He has never been benched or putin relief as a result of his performance. Even if you choose to ignore WHIP as a valuable measurement and only use ERA,

    In 2010:
    Wake had 19 starts, 10 letting up 3 or less ERs (1.417 WHIP/5.71 ERA).
    DiceK had 25 starts, 13 letting up 3 or less ERS (1.373 WHIP/4.69 ERA).
      (Dice-K did better, over the whole season as expected, even though some of these starts had less IP than those of Wake.)

    In 2009:
    Wake had 21 starts with 12 under 3 ERs (1.442 WHIP/4.58 ERA).
    DiceK had 12 starts with 5 under 3 ERs.  (1.871 WHIP/5.76 ERA).

    Combine 2009 & 2010 and we have:
    Wake: 40 starts, 22 with 3 ERs or less.
    DiceK: 37 starts, 18 with 3 ERs or less.

    I'm not saying Wake is better than Dice-K, but you are using stats to show Dice-K and others are better choices than Wake, but you refuse to acknowledge the fact that Wake has had some pretty good numbers outside of his ERA. He has don about as well as Dice an Oki from 2009-2010 in many areas, but you act as if they are great pitchers and Wake is a bum.

    As a releiver in 2010, Wake had a 1.040 WHIP (3.60 ERA for your benefit).   The opponents batted .253/.281/.396/.677.

    Wake may never pitch well aain. I know that. I know a knuckleballer can not keep pitching until he's 80. I know he may stink the rest of this year, even if used properly. My point has always been that there is a significant chance he can pitch well this year. We only have about 8 pitchers who we can count on to be reliable. Even if they all stay healthy, we still need a pool of pitchers to choose fom to fill out the reaining slots. I want to keep as many options available as possible. The history has shown that 14-17 pitchers are needed every year. To me, Wake is in the top 14-17 choices.
    It's not about me being sure he will do better than Aceves, Atchison or others. I am not sure. Are you 100% sure he is worse?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: When Albers was Recalled from the DL, Who would you have sent down, Wakefield or Aceves?

    One thing Wakefield has over all these guys is he's proven himself to be a top level MLB pitcher, is he over the hill/done?

    Wakefield never proved himself to be "a top level MLB pitcher". 1/2 season and a sympathy vote doesn't count.

    The guy can't throw to the plate with bouncing balls to the backstop. He has no business in the pen, and using an active roster spot to hold him as a #9 lousy starter isn't a reason to keep him. It's pure politics. Trying to make a case for Wakefield is laughable.

    Slav, where is the stat for "stolen bases against and passed balls by a pitcher"? You'd better include that in your Wakefield selective stats smear campaign.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: When Albers was Recalled from the DL, Who would you have sent down, Wakefield or Aceves?

    Ignore that he was 5th in the AL in WHIP in 2008, 17-12 in 2007, and vry deserving of the Allstar vote in 2009.

    It's just as easy to cherry pick the good as the bad. You are th master at changing criteria to fit your position. I have always looked at WHIP, quality and better than official quality start numbers, ERA, and more when ever I look at any pitcher's value. I hav recognized Wake's ERA has been high. I never hear you say anything about anything good Wake has ever done, except just recently on his charity contributions.

    You also keep aying you said things over a year ago, but your new ID says you were not here then. You deny you are softy, then tell us who you were before GM?

    The only smear campaign is headed by you.

    Despite your lies,I have defended Dice-K and Oki. I was glad we resigned him. Just because I pointed out he has declined for 3 years, does not mean I do not think he still have value. (By the way, his decline was in all the stat areas you use, but you denied he was in decine.) Talk about "smear".
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: When Albers was Recalled from the DL, Who would you have sent down, Wakefield or Aceves?

    Who were you before you were here? What kind of question is that............

    Now, let's see the stolen bases against and wild pitch and passed balls total for Wakefield. Thank you.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: When Albers was Recalled from the DL, Who would you have sent down, Wakefield or Aceves?

    It says your first post was 3/22/2011, yet you keep saying "I said this and that" from months and months before March.
     
    I'm asking what identity you used before Basbeall GM. You know what I asked.

    Stop playing the clown and answer a question for once.

    If you are so interested in PBs, SB%s and WPs, why not do some research yourself. I'm sure Wake's numbers are not as good as others, but there are other more relevant numbers I left out as well that show Wake has been equal or better than Dice-K, such as BB/9, IP per start, QS%, K/BB, and more...

    Keep moving the goalpost and eventually it will end up where it started: Wake has not been much different than Dice since the start of 2007, 2008 or 2009. He certainly has been a very capable 4-5 starter in MLB. That doesn't sound like someone we should be cutting loose when we have 2-3 staff slots in turmoil.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: When Albers was Recalled from the DL, Who would you have sent down, Wakefield or Aceves?

    In Response to Re: When Albers was Recalled from the DL, Who would you have sent down, Wakefield or Aceves?:
    It says your first post was 3/22/2011, yet you keep saying "I said this and that" from months and months before March.   I'm asking what identity you used before Basbeall GM. You know what I asked. Stop playing the clown and answer a question for once. If you are so interested in PBs, SB%s and WPs, why not do some research yourself. I'm sure Wake's numbers are not as good as others, but there are other more relevant numbers I left out as well that show Wake has been equal or better than Dice-K, such as BB/9, IP per start, QS%, K/BB, and more... Keep moving the goalpost and eventually ti end up where it started: Wake has not been much different than Dice since the start of 2007, 2008 or 2009. He certainly has been a very capable 4-5 starter in MLB. That doesn't sund like someone we should be cutting loose when we have 2-3 staff slots in turmoil.
    Posted by moonslav59


    This question is like using Raid. He won't go near it.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: When Albers was Recalled from the DL, Who would you have sent down, Wakefield or Aceves?

    It's a question we all know the answer to.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: When Albers was Recalled from the DL, Who would you have sent down, Wakefield or Aceves?

     I never said "you said this and that for months before". And you can't back that up. Either admit you have posted a falsity, or self impose your board departure.


    I'm sure Wake's numbers are not as good as others, but there are other more relevant numbers

    No, there aren't more "relative numbers". It's part of all the numbers, and Wakefield has no business in the pen. He also has no business taking up roster spot as the "#6 starter", which is joke. He's a #9 or #10 starter, if there was any merit.

    The reason for the campaign to bump Wakefield off the active roster is because management responds to enough fan disgust. Lowell, sadly, had too many fans who were willing to let that go. So far, the same embarrassment is unfolding with Wakefield.

    I urge all fans to email and post demands that Wakefield be asked to acccept a AAA asignment or retire or be traded or, if necessary, released.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: When Albers was Recalled from the DL, Who would you have sent down, Wakefield or Aceves?

    If fans disagree, should they self-impose departure?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: When Albers was Recalled from the DL, Who would you have sent down, Wakefield or Aceves?

    I'd say "fans" don't disagree. Some do, and a lot don't. Given Wakefield's mascot status, that's like a banana republic dictator claiming a win by 10%. That makes it a loss by about 89%.

    Wakefield is losing by about 99%. You should be embarrassed, the way he sits in that dugout looking like a giant elephant. He's about as round as an elephant.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: When Albers was Recalled from the DL, Who would you have sent down, Wakefield or Aceves?

    Figuring the many IDs of softlaw voted against Wake, it's hard to understand your math. The again, numbers were never your specialty.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: When Albers was Recalled from the DL, Who would you have sent down, Wakefield or Aceves?

    In Response to Re: When Albers was Recalled from the DL, Who would you have sent down, Wakefield or Aceves?:
    BaseballGM he is not. Right now Aceves is more important to RS being stretched out in case of injury to one of the starters. Right now RS are thin behind the starting five, w/ Doubront and his ST elbow concerns, not sure he would be answer at this point. Bowden, Miller, or Brandon Duckworth not sure would be the answer right now either. We're not even into May yet, so I'm not worried about a players era for 3 weeks of April baseball, I'd prefer to have someone ready to step into rotation if someone were to go down which seems to have happened every year since 04. That's what a smart BaseballGM would do, once Aceves is stretched out come June 1 let him join RS if someone is still pitching poorly. Now we have help for pen plus someone who could step in for spot start if needed.
    Posted by garyhow


    This post is the definition of logical..and spot on in his analysis.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: When Albers was Recalled from the DL, Who would you have sent down, Wakefield or Aceves?

    I'm not softlaw, and I only have one identity. You and Harness, on the other hand, have scads of monikerks and are 7 of the 8 votes for keeping Wakefield on the active roster over Aceves.

    Anyone wanting Wakefield on the active roster over Aceves has no crediblity. Since Wakefield is this "great guy", he would welcome a chance to help the team by agreeing to a AAA asignment.
     
  21. This post has been removed.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: When Albers was Recalled from the DL, Who would you have sent down, Wakefield or Aceves?

    It will never happen, but Wakefield should have been let go. Do you really need a 45 year old mop up guy on your roster? Atchison deserves to be here more than he does, and he could actually pitch in a "meaningful" game. When will Wakefield pitch in a meaningful game?
    His game log:

    April 1  IP  0.1    L  9-5
    April 2  IP  1.2    L  12-5
    April 6  IP  2.0    L   8-4
    April 9  IP  2.0    L   9-4
    April 11 IP  3.1   L 16-5
    April 18 IP  1.0   W 9-1

    He hasn't pitched in two weeks.

    Wouldn't you rather have Atchison with the following numbers?
    12.1 IP   9 H  1 ER  0 BB  15 K
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: When Albers was Recalled from the DL, Who would you have sent down, Wakefield or Aceves?

    ADG, great points, but remember what Slav is pleading. If a starter or two hits the long term DL, what will the team do if it doesn't have Wakefield to enter the rotation and show his form of the last year and a half? I mean, you can't seriously think that Aceves or Atchison or Doubrant or Bowden or Miller could fill in like the great Tim Wakefield, can you? I'm being sarcastic.

    There's another guy named Roy, who is using a sample snipet that could be used to show that Wakefield in 2010 was as good as Cliff Lee in 2010.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: When Albers was Recalled from the DL, Who would you have sent down, Wakefield or Aceves?

    Where will you be if it happens and Bowden gets lit up?

    Canging IDs again?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: When Albers was Recalled from the DL, Who would you have sent down, Wakefield or Aceves?

    "Canging" ID"s isn't what I do. Bowden is one of several options. Where will you be if Wakefield gets lit up after wasting a roster spot for the month or more of the season?
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share