WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?

    HES BEEN EQUAL TO OR BETTER THAN  lackey and wake. if we let him work on it, he may be better by playoffs or by next year (and in the meantime, he could just continue winning games allowing 1-4 runs per game usually 1-3).
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from westcoastsox9. Show westcoastsox9's posts

    Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?

    In Response to WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?:
    [QUOTE]HES BEEN EQUAL TO OR BETTER THAN  lackey and wake. if we let him work on it, he may be better by playoffs or by next year (and in the meantime, he could just continue winning games allowing 1-4 runs per game usually 1-3).
    Posted by brdbreu[/QUOTE]

    Yea but he hasnt had to battle the yankees yet.. If he can get through 6 innings of them and keep us in the game, then he has earned his chance. Most appearances have come facing the likes of the Orioles and Royals.  But good improvement from Miller, but would like to see him make it to the 7th inning and through it more often.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?

    In Response to Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW? : Yea but he hasnt had to battle the yankees yet.. If he can get through 6 innings of them and keep us in the game, then he has earned his chance. Most appearances have come facing the likes of the Orioles and Royals.  But good improvement from Miller, but would like to see him make it to the 7th inning and through it more often.
    Posted by westcoastsox9[/QUOTE]

    Way to turn a positive thread into a "keep worrying" thread, and about the Yankees, no less. Almost 700 posts in less than two months? Yeah, I thought so. lol

    Edit: It's amazing you came on at this time to just post two negative comments on threads after we won the last two games. Who doesn't see you coming after that? And it's good to know "Yazzer" is a pal of yours.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?

    Busy lauding Wakefield, 45 years old and 5 plus ERA over 2 years and all.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from therimrattler. Show therimrattler's posts

    Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?

    miller took a very different mental approach into last night's game-that of not slowing things down but rather picking up his pitching pace. if nothing else  he was much more fun to watch after ditching his dice-k slow down style.

    i have to give credit to the KC announcers for mentioning this, but we were talking about it before their announcers mentioned that miller was throwing, getting the ball back and throwing it again (and quickly).

    whomever helped him with this change may have just saved his major league career as he was about to lose everything if he had continued like he had been doing in his last few starts.

    he has enough "stuff" to win in the majors, but needs to think less (which he was doing last night) and let that "stuff" be his calling card.

    i was very impressed last night and hope to see him at least a few more times as a starter this season.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from YOUKILLUS20. Show YOUKILLUS20's posts

    Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?

    In Response to Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?:
    [QUOTE]miller took a very different mental approach into last night's game-that of not slowing things down but rather picking up his pitching pace. if nothing else  he was much more fun to watch after ditching his dice-k slow down style. i have to give credit to the KC announcers for mentioning this, but we were talking about it before their announcers mentioned that miller was throwing, getting the ball back and throwing it again (and quickly). whomever helped him with this change may have just saved his major league career as he was about to lose everything if he had continued like he had been doing in his last few starts. he has enough "stuff" to win in the majors, but needs to think less (which he was doing last night) and let that "stuff" be his calling card. i was very impressed last night and hope to see him at least a few more times as a starter this season.
    Posted by therimrattler[/QUOTE]

     I watched the KC feed too, and right after the annoucers were talking about Miller speeding up his tempo, and recording two quick outs, he got the ball back and started examining it. He decided he didn't like it. It seemed like that was the point where he began to overthink the situation. KC helped him a lot, as he was missing Salty's target all night long. Ninety percent of his game is half-mental.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?

    In Response to Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW? :  I watched the KC feed too, and right after the annoucers were talking about Miller speeding up his tempo, and recording two quick outs, he got the ball back and started examining it. He decided he didn't like it. It seemed like that was the point where he began to overthink the situation. KC helped him a lot, as he was missing Salty's target all night long. Ninety percent of his game is half-mental.
    Posted by YOUKILLUS20[/QUOTE]

    LOL...you do have to give the KC announcers credit for doing a little homework on the pitcher they're facing.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?

    The OP is badly misinformed.  Sending Miller back to the minors is not an option, which is why the Sox had to bring him up in mid June. 

    Miller is still very much a work in progress.  You can make a case I think that Francona took him out in the 6th, not because he was tiring or had loss control or whatever, but simply because Francona couldn't stand the agony of suspense for even one more batter.  Miller's "work in progress" will raise any manager's blood pressure, get his stomach churning, get him chewing tobacco, whatever. 
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mikeyinthebronx2. Show Mikeyinthebronx2's posts

    Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?

    In Response to Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW? : Way to turn a positive thread into a "keep worrying" thread, and about the Yankees, no less. Almost 700 posts in less than two months? Yeah, I thought so. lol Edit: It's amazing you came on at this time to just post two negative comments on threads after we won the last two games. Who doesn't see you coming after that? And it's good to know "Yazzer" is a pal of yours.
    Posted by kimsaysthis[/QUOTE]

    Hmmm counting posts and judging what others write, reminds me a lot of Pawsoxphil.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosox0489. Show bosox0489's posts

    Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?


     if miller developes a 12 to 6 curve. to compliment the rest of his stuff,we will have a real valuable starter. lets face it his command of the strike zone is not going to remind you of bruce hurst or mel parnell.if he works on his control to tghe extent that lester has done vhe could become one helluva asset

                                                              semper fi
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from playball01. Show playball01's posts

    Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?

    In Response to WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?:
    [QUOTE]HES BEEN EQUAL TO OR BETTER THAN  lackey and wake. if we let him work on it, he may be better by playoffs or by next year (and in the meantime, he could just continue winning games allowing 1-4 runs per game usually 1-3).
    Posted by brdbreu[/QUOTE]

    While I applaud Miller's performance last night I am also able to place the win in the proper perspective. All one has to do is view Miller's seasonal stat line to understand that the pitcher hasn't beaten any playoff contending team(s) or been placed in pressure situations against top contenders. In fact, one of his shortest outings and worst performances, resulting in the "L" on his 2011 resume, was against Tampa Bay.

    Once Miller is placed in the same type of high pressure situations as Lackey/Wakefield then there can be some discussion with regards to who is better or equal to whom.

    Although good to see Miller's confidence being restored. I won't be sold until I see how he performs against the likes of the Yankees, Rangers, etc. The guy is great pitching depth but beyond that is yet to be determined. Youth is definitely on the pitcher's side moving forward and he is in the right organization to grow. What he will become is unknown as of yet.

    By the way Kim, pointing out the obvious is not a "Keep Worrying" post or negative bias against a team/player "IF" the facts support an argument or a differing view than that of your own or another. If you grow up and leave the homerism at the door then you may become a positive member of the fraternity known as BDC On the Front Burner.

    You take issue with anyone here that says anything positive about the Yankees yet you fail to realize that they are our biggest rival "AND" are currently in first place. Don't you think that if a starting pitcher hasn't proven that he can beat our biggest rival that maybe there is a debatable issue?


     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from PawsoxPhil. Show PawsoxPhil's posts

    Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?

    Well each win is worth about $1 mil. so it is nice that we won last night's game and thanks to Miller and Aceves. Didn't we get Miller for next to nothing. Do you check out the teeth of a gifthorse. Babe only wishes that his Yankees had signed Miller. Why so many guarded and cautious opinions. Do you people get bonus BDC points for always being guarded? Is it a Calvinist trait?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mikeyinthebronx2. Show Mikeyinthebronx2's posts

    Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?

    In Response to Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?:
    [QUOTE]Well each win is worth about $1 mil. so it is nice that we won last night's game and thanks to Miller and Aceves. Didn't we get Miller for next to nothing. Do you check out the teeth of a gifthorse. Babe only wishes that his Yankees had signed Miller. Why so many guarded and cautious opinions. Do you people get bonus BDC points for always being guarded? Is it a Calvinist trait?
    Posted by PawsoxPhil[/QUOTE]

    Not just Miller, we pine for Bedard, Wakefield and of course Carl Crawford and his contract.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?

    wake should be replaced by Miller permanently...his upside is simply too great and even at this point in his career he is better than Father Time....seriously, if you had to win the last game of the season to get in to the post-season and had to start wake or miller, who would you want pitching??? No contest imo
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from summerof67. Show summerof67's posts

    Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?

    Gone missing, I reckon.

    Until Mr. Miller loses his control with runners on first and third - which is not inevitable but certainly within the realm of probabilitiy.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?

    I don't recall anyone saying "send him to the minors". I'm not even sure if that was ever an option. 

    Good to see Miller pitch well. The Royals have a just barely better-than-average offense. He hasn't really faced many good offenses this season, but it is nice to see his ERA go under 5.00. Here's a look at Miller's opponents and their offensive rating (by runs sscored)
    SD    (25)
    Pitt  (27)
    Hou (26)
    Bal   (18)
    TB    (14)
    Bal  (18)
    KC   (13)
    CWS (19)
    KC    (13)

    Out of this group, only TB has a great pitching staff, so with the great run support the Sox provide, perhaps Miller has been set up to succeed more than any other starter in MLB this year. Still, you gotta love the team 8-1 record

    As for this:

    "HES BEEN EQUAL TO OR BETTER THAN  lackey and wake.."

    I couldn't disagree more. Yes, he has a better 2011 ERA than Lackey, but that is where it ends. If you go back beyond this season, Miller's numbers pale in comparison. Besides his much easier opponents faced than Wake and Lackey, look at these starter numbers this year:

    IP/GS
    Wake     108/17  (6.3 per start)
    Lackey 122.2/21 (5.8)
    Miller     45.2/9   (5.1)

    When you start Miller over Wake, you need about 1 and 1/3 more IP from the pen, and it's not from Bard or Paps. 

    ERA
    Wake    4.92
    Miller    4.93
    Lackey  6.02
    (2nd half: Lackey 4.53, Wake 5.22, Miller 6.23)

    Miller's ERA is now under 5.00, but remember he has not started vs an offense rated higher than 13th out of 30, and he has only had a sub 5.00 ERA once in his 5 previous seasons in MLB (4.84 in 2009). His career ERA is 5.72. (Sidenote to Geo: there is also much more "downside" to Miller than to Lackey, Bedard or Wake).

    WHIP
    Wake   1.315
    Lackey 1.549
    Miller    1.774
    (2nd half: Wake 1.336, Lackey 1.557, Miller 2.000)

    Miller is way behind here, and to me, WHIP is a very good indicator on how well a starter is pitching (or not in Miller's case).

    Opponent's OPS
    Wake   .772
    Miller   .843
    Lackey .847
    (2nd half: Wake .834, Lackey .856, Miller .898) 

    Miller is close to Lackey here, but not close to Wake.

    SO/BB
    Lackey  2.32
    Wake    1.90
    Miller    1.18
    (2nd half: Lackey 3.78, Wake 2.89, Miller 1.05)

    Miller has serious BB issues. Wake has the bext BB/9 rate out of all Sox starters from 2010 to present.

    Other than ERA, there really is no comparison, especially  when looking at the overall context of strength of opponents faced, run support, and prior performance records.


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from law2009a. Show law2009a's posts

    Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?

    m
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from law2009a. Show law2009a's posts

    Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?

    m
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?

     I don't think he should be sent back to the minors but I amazed at how badly he misses the plate with alot of his pitches. Maybe it helps him in that batters may be reluctant to dig in, cause some of his pitches miss by a foot or two. Having said that, he did a nice job last night and what pleased me most was that Francona hooked him with one down in the bottom of the 6th before things started to unravel. The 2 stars of the night had to be Salty and Aceves. Aceves pitched brilliantly and we didn't burn up the bullpen. 
     Back to Miller----he has pretty good stuff so his lack of control must be all mental. I hope he's working with a sports psychologist. I think it really could be quite helpful or him.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?

    In Response to Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?:
    [QUOTE]miller took a very different mental approach into last night's game-that of not slowing things down but rather picking up his pitching pace. if nothing else  he was much more fun to watch after ditching his dice-k slow down style. i have to give credit to the KC announcers for mentioning this, but we were talking about it before their announcers mentioned that miller was throwing, getting the ball back and throwing it again (and quickly). whomever helped him with this change may have just saved his major league career as he was about to lose everything if he had continued like he had been doing in his last few starts. he has enough "stuff" to win in the majors, but needs to think less (which he was doing last night) and let that "stuff" be his calling card. i was very impressed last night and hope to see him at least a few more times as a starter this season.
    Posted by therimrattler[/QUOTE]

    Exactly!  This kid's got great stuff.    Picking up the pace is key!  Not to mention him jacking up the speed on the fastball!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PawsoxPhil. Show PawsoxPhil's posts

    Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?

    I wasn't aware of the litmus test that one had to wait until a new pitcher faces the Yankees and performs well before you can give him kudos for an impressive performance. Do we give kudos to pitchers who pitch well against us or do we wait until their performance vs. the Yankees? Is every outing against every team but the Yankees not factual or valid or count. Maybe we should not start anymore threads about Miller until he has faced the Yankees and that will put a cap on homerism and irrational exuberance. Heaven forbid if Red Sox fans start acting like Red Sox fans. The nerve.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?

    In Response to Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?:
    [QUOTE]I don't recall anyone saying "send him to the minors". I'm not even sure if that was ever an option.  Good to see Miller pitch well. The Royals have a just barely better-than-average offense. He hasn't really faced many good offenses this season, but it is nice to see his ERA go under 5.00. Here's a look at Miller's opponents and their offensive rating (by runs sscored) SD    (25) Pitt  (27) Hou (26) Bal   (18) TB    (14) Bal  (18) KC   (13) CWS (19) KC    (13) Out of this group, only TB has a great pitching staff, so with the great run support the Sox provide, perhaps Miller has been set up to succeed more than any other starter in MLB this year. Still, you gotta love the team 8-1 record As for this: "HES BEEN EQUAL TO OR BETTER THAN  lackey and wake.." I couldn't disagree more. Yes, he has a better 2011 ERA than Lackey, but that is where it ends. If you go back beyond this season, Miller's numbers pale in comparison.   Besides his much easier opponents faced than Wake and Lackey, look at these starter numbers this year: IP/GS Wake     108/17  (6.3 per start) Lackey 122.2/21 (5.8) Miller     45.2/9   (5.1) When you start Miller over Wake, you need about 1 and 1/3 more IP from the pen, and it's not from Bard or Paps.  ERA Wake    4.92 Miller    4.93 Lackey  6.02 (2nd half: Lackey 4.53, Wake 5.22, Miller 6.23) Miller's ERA is now under 5.00, but remember he has not started vs an offense rated higher than 13th out of 30, and he has only had a sub 5.00 ERA once in his 5 previous seasons in MLB (4.84 in 2009). His career ERA is 5.72. (Sidenote to Geo: there is also much more "downside" to Miller than to Lackey, Bedard or Wake). WHIP Wake   1.315 Lackey 1.549 Miller    1.774 (2nd half: Wake 1.336, Lackey 1.557, Miller 2.000) Miller is way behind here, and to me, WHIP is a very good indicator on how well a starter is pitching (or not in Miller's case). Opponent's OPS Wake   .772 Miller   .843 Lackey .847 (2nd half: Wake .834, Lackey .856, Miller .898)  Miller is close to Lackey here, but not close to Wake. SO/BB Lackey  2.32 Wake    1.90 Miller    1.18 (2nd half: Lackey 3.78, Wake 2.89, Miller 1.05) Miller has serious BB issues. Wake has the bext BB/9 rate out of all Sox starters from 2010 to present. Other than ERA, there really is no comparison, especially  when looking at the overall context of strength of opponents faced, run support, and prior performance records.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    EXCELLENT, informative post.

    FWIW: I still like Miller as a specialist in the pen this year, as the need is there.
    But it'll take time for the adjustment, and it doesn't appear the team wants to go there.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: WHERE ARE ALL THE "SEND MILLER BACK TO THE MINORS" PEOPLE NOW?


    Posts: 578
    First: 8/1/2011
    Last: 8/20/2011
    I wasn't aware of the litmus test that one had to wait until a new pitcher faces the Yankees and performs well before you can give him kudos for an impressive performance...

    I never said anything like this. I only meant
    to show that his numbers should be taken
    in context. He has 9 starts this year, but
    none of them vs any top 12 offensive
    teams. When you look at his numbers,
    they are still worse than Wake's and
    Lackey's. 

     
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