Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    In Response to Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???:
    The Sox were already a recognized brand before those 3 got here...all they brought in was the allotment of non-fans to jump on the bandwagon. In reality, the Sox won 2 WS titles thanks to a combination of two regimes--Damon, Manny, Tek, Wakefield, Pedro, Lowe--and then the Larry/Theo players added on top. It's the winning that made the brand, not the owners. The winning brought on the bandwagon effect. The Patriots were an unrecognized brand before Kraft took over. It's different in that respect. The Sox always were a recognized brand--as for underachieving, I think this ownership group has done quite well in that area since 2007. The 2008 and 09 teams were not built to win the WS and were thusly eliminated. The 2010 was a non-playoff team, rightfully so. The 2011 team was built to win--and greatly underachieved.
    Posted by dannycater


    Danny,

    the 2008 team was one game away from the WS...2009 they were a playoff team...2010 and this past year most of thier failing were a dirct result of injuries...revisonist historians can write what ever they want....facts are facts...

    The Red Sox brand before Henry was that of a second division club, one that played the role of also ran to the Yankees...paint the past anyway you'd like.

    If you can't recognize the contributions that Henry and his team have made to changing the entire mindset of generations of Red sox fans then clearly you can't have been a fan for long...Today we yearn to win championships and are disapointed when we don't. Pre 2004 once a deacade or so when we were in position to win it all we lamented the curse of the bambino and when we once agian were left to wait til next year we accepted that as part of the norm of being fans of the Boston Red Sox Baseball Club...

    Ironically, your opins of the current teams owners is rooted in the new era of entitlement and is an example of just how far Henry has moved the dial...like it or not big guy, you've become spoiled with success...
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    If you were really a Sox fan prior to 2004, bean, you would never use the term "curse" since it was only created by a sportswriter AFTER 1986 WS...sense of entitement is a two-way street. There are a lot of Sox fans who happen to know every little nugget about Sox baseball prior to John Henry owning the team. This was not a bad franchise by any stretch. The Sox had several fine teams, the 86 team, 78, 75, 67, 95, 99, 72. The 2003 team was as good as I've ever seen offensively. The lamenting prior to 2004 were made by three authors of books who think they know the heart of Sox fanship. Bullshoy. The team was always a very competitive franchise. Not loveable losers like the Cubs. Sorry, this is not about entitlement, nice try there, dumbazz.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    People act like because you win 2 WS titles, you are entitled to sit on your derrieres, and bask because winning a WS 4 YEARS AGO is what you get to live on. Well, bask, I'm not wishing the Sox wait another season to miss the postseason. It's been 2 years and counting by the way for the 2nd highest payroll in sports. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    A franchise that is about to hire a non-manager to be manager, and has a cherub for a GM..again. One who rubberstamped the CC deal and Lackey deal.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from KingOSmakk. Show KingOSmakk's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    This is what I remember.  You had the title all locked up.

    How is that serving of crow?


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    In Response to Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???:
    If you were really a Sox fan prior to 2004, bean, you would never use the term "curse" since it was only created by a sportswriter AFTER 1986 WS...sense of entitement is a two-way street. There are a lot of Sox fans who happen to know every little nugget about Sox baseball prior to John Henry owning the team. This was not a bad franchise by any stretch. The Sox had several fine teams, the 86 team, 78, 75, 67, 95, 99, 72. The 2003 team was as good as I've ever seen offensively. The lamenting prior to 2004 were made by three authors of books who think they know the heart of Sox fanship. Bullshoy. The team was always a very competitive franchise. Not loveable losers like the Cubs. Sorry, this is not about entitlement, nice try there, dumbazz.
    Posted by dannycater


    danny,
    If your going to resort to using perjoritives, than I'd rather we just ended the debate. You obviously see things as half full, I chose to see thing differently, we can agree to disagree without being disagreeable. The Curse of the Bambino and the book written by Shaunessey. Served to reinforce what had already been cited as why the Sox hadn't won since he was sold to the dreaded Yanks...The idea that the team was cursed was not Shaunessey, penning the words The Curse of the Bambino was.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_the_Bambino

    Listen I spent many a day sitting next to my dad, listening to the Sox on the radio and remember all to well learning the meaning of wait til next year. The loser lamment in Boston was palpable...

    Not that I have to prove my allegiance to the home town nine to anyone. I've been a fan since the days of Yaz, I can remember to this day the excitement surrounding the team in 67, when I was 10 years old boy. My father was a WWII era guy and a fan of Teddy ball games, my grandfather and his father go back to the days of Ruth and Cy Young playing on the Huntington ground where my HS used to practice when I played football.

    Trust me I learned what it meant to be Sox fan in 75, then once more in 78 before having my heart ripped out in 86. When as an adult,  I prematurely jump for joy while watching game 6 on a small black and white TV while fiddling with the rabbit ears tyring to get a clearer pictute, all the while toiling at work on the west coast with no other Sox fans to share in my glee and or help me later that evening drown my sorrows with a bottle of Jack.

    To that end the 2004 Red Sox changed the dynamics of an entire fan base and then 2007 served to put a nice bow on our new found standing...Gone were any reference to the infamous past of our beloved home town nine...silant went the masses at the Old Yankees stadium gone were the chants of 1918 and forever banished to the trash bins were the images of Ruth. Gone were the condesending looks we'd get from Yankees fans for alway being a second division team....Trust me I know all to well what it was like to ba a Sox fan before Henry and today we sit on level ground with the fans from the EE!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    Then don't categorize me like you did a few posts earlier...that's why I called you what I called you, it was based on your categorization of my being a certain type of Sox fan. As for glass halffull, half-empty, I happen to be loving life. The B's are Stanley Cup champs, the patch-work defense Pats lead the AFC East, and the sport I no longer care for now longer cares for itself--the NBA.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    As for the Sox, I don't see a lot being done to change the way things are...It's a dysfunctional clubhouse that needs direction, it's a franchise that needs a real GM to be frank--Ben is just another Moneyball guy with money...that's dangerous too...ask Theo.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    **If you can't recognize the contributions that Henry and his team have made to changing the entire mindset of generations of Red sox fans then clearly you can't have been a fan for long.**

    that was a lot worse than me calling you dumb, for the record.

    The mindset of generations might need to realize you go to the Sox games to root for the team, not sing songs. But hey, I'm just a Pink Hatter now. Heck, I was thinking of making it a fun night. Go to the Sox game, drink an imported, sing a few songs, maybe throw a beach ball around, and then leave around the 6th inning, you know have reservations for dinner downtown.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    In Response to Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???:
    **If you can't recognize the contributions that Henry and his team have made to changing the entire mindset of generations of Red sox fans then clearly you can't have been a fan for long..
    Posted by dannycater

    danny you are right they have changed the mind set. However I believe they have in two different ways. IMHO the older guys like me (55 years a fan) appreciate the two WS much more than the new comers 80's+. I watch a game and still hope they win and I am not sure they have a game won until the last out in the 9th.

    Newer fans are pissed they don't win every game. They expect them to win even when down by 3 in the ninth. They expect a win when up by 3 in the ninth. They don't have a history to look back on and understand that NOTHING is garunteed.

    Newer fans have a sense on entitlement.

    I have seen the RS win a game in the 9th when they were down by 7 runs and won. I've seen it go the other way.

    I like many older fans enjoy every game some more than others wins and loses.IMO we take nothing for granted like younger fans.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    Nice post jim.

    I remember thinking I'd be happy with 10 last place finishes if we could just win one ring. That's how bad it was for us longterm Sox fans. I realize I am a bit more gready now, so maybe I'm a "tweener".

    (Sox fan since early 70's)
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    Sox fan since 1969.  After 2003 I honestly felt the Sox had a one in three chance of winning a title in my lifetime.  I do still have a feeling of gratitude toward the current ownership.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    In Response to Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???:
    A franchise that is about to hire a non-manager to be manager, and has a cherub for a GM..again. One who rubberstamped the CC deal and Lackey deal.
    Posted by dannycater


    Danny,
    Aside from Larassa who just retired, Torre who works for MLB and Francona who's probably not in the mix. Who would you pick to be the new skipper? Bobby "I ain't ever won a thing" Valentine? That cherub that you're refering too is also the guy that was part of the Beckett for Ramirez deal and like Epstein before him has been mentored by Luccino. I'd say we give him a chance to prove his worth before concluding that he's not worthy. If you check his resume, he played ball in college and came up through the ranks as a coach and scout. His addimission to being in support of the CC deal IMHO shows him to be accountable. I've never read any quotes attributed to him regarding his being on board with the Lackey signing. Even is he had, so be it. I'm not ready to conclude that either of them are bust, Lackey pitched with a bad wing, his signing IMHO given a pre existing condition was in hindsight a bad move, he does however still have 3 more seasons after returning from surgury to move the dial and earn his money's. Ditto Crawford.

    Your above opins speak volumes in that you appear to have all the answers, yet have only penned critiques, laced with prrjuratives. Opins that you're entitled to express, ones that I don't share.

    If you want to beat up Henry becasue of the change in the demographic at the ball park. Then you fail to understand what has been the single most important driver of the fiscal success of the game in the last decade. Which is to present a product that is compelling to the casual fan. Aside from the new seating to expand the revenue base. Every change to the park has been done with an eye on creating an eviornment that is fan friendly and speaks to the casual fan. . A formula that is used in the construction of every new ballpark.

    Therein lyes the opportunty to grow revenues, make no mistake about it John Henry didn't buy the Red Sox becasue he needed a new toy, he did so because of the moneys to made. He is also savy enough to understand that winning is a key to the formula to attract and hold the interest of the casual fan. Those of us that represent the core of this board are already hooked and we're drawn to spend our moneys because of our love for the game. Whoever we're out numbered in the millions by the casual fan. Who once they turn thier attention elsewhere take thier moneys with them and don't spend them on all things Red Sox....
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    jim, was that the Allenson bunt game? v. the Angels? 7 runs down in the 9th...I just remember the craziest comeback I've ever seen was the Halos making 3 dropped balls or something like that during a wild inning and then Gary Allenson putting down a perfect squeeze to win the game...Lots of memorable comebacks.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    Bean, you're right...let's give the new-old regime a chance to make new-old moves that turn the team into a new-old coulda-woulda-shoulda playoff team that doesn't have the new-old goods to win the big games....
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    I want a show of hands btw...how many of you want the Sox to win another WS? Or are you all just satisfied now...I get it, don't get me wrong. I probably myself have gotten complacent in the winning seasons, but I am not satisfied with the team missing out on the postseason last 2 years..The dynamics changed with the team becoming a top 3 payroll, so the expectations should/are different more so due to payroll than previous WS titles....
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    In Response to Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???:
    Bean, you're right...let's give the new-old regime a chance to make new-old moves that turn the team into a new-old coulda-woulda-shoulda playoff team that doesn't have the new-old goods to win the big games....
    Posted by dannycater


    Sound's like you need to jump on a new bandwagon my friend...You can continue to see all that is wrong. I prefer to wait and see and give the new-old regime a chance to disprove your Nostradamos-Shaunessey doom and gloomer predictions of failure, to be off the mark. In the end, I live by the credo that you can't fail until you stop trying. To that end I've heard nothing coming from Yawkey way to suggest that Henry and Co. have thrown in the towel and will stop striving to field a championship team.


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    In Response to Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???:
    jim, was that the Allenson bunt game? v. the Angels? 7 runs down in the 9th...I just remember the craziest comeback I've ever seen was the Halos making 3 dropped balls or something like that during a wild inning and then Gary Allenson putting down a perfect squeeze to win the game...Lots of memorable comebacks.
    Posted by dannycater


    1961 Washington Senators and Jim Pagliaroni hit a grand slam with 2 out in the 9th
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    holy toledo..61 Senators...funniest comeback ever for me was Dodgers v. the Phillies...I was at the game, we had to leave, even though you could sense there was something odd going on..The Dodgers I think trailed by 11 runs, but then chipped away. In the entire time it took to get to the car, drive home, we listened to the game on radio, the Dodgers sent the game to extra innings. And then won it while we watched it on TV at home....I cursed my brother on that one. Left the greatest comeback evah.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    In Response to Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???:
    In Response to Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now??? : danny you are right they have changed the mind set. However I believe they have in two different ways. IMHO the older guys like me (55 years a fan) appreciate the two WS much more than the new comers 80's+. I watch a game and still hope they win and I am not sure they have a game won until the last out in the 9th. Newer fans are pissed they don't win every game. They expect them to win even when down by 3 in the ninth. They expect a win when up by 3 in the ninth. They don't have a history to look back on and understand that NOTHING is garunteed. Newer fans have a sense on entitlement. I have seen the RS win a game in the 9th when they were down by 7 runs and won. I've seen it go the other way. I like many older fans enjoy every game some more than others wins and loses.IMO we take nothing for granted like younger fans.
    Posted by JimfromFlorida


    Jim,
    The quote above that your refering too, was in fact mine...I will add that each of us came to root for the Sox for differing reasons. Some of us are 3rd and 4th generation fans, that grew up and were influenced by our fathers perception of the Red Sox. I come from a long line of Sox fans dating back to the days of Ruth. That's not to imply that I somehow have earned the right to judge those that didn't or weren't born into a family with parants and grandparents that we all ardent fans of the hometown nine. Nor am I sitting in judgement of those that today have been blessed with the new found successes of the Sox. I also don't feel that I am somehow more of a fan then those that are today considered pink hats. I am however grateful that the Sox under Henry won it all in 2004 and in the process dispatched the hated Yank's...

    My son who's a teenager today and a 5th generation Sox fan doesn't carry the burden of the losers lamment that many kids my age did, which was only reinforced in 1978 and then again in 1986. Nor did he have to endure season after season of listening to fans of the Yankees bellowing from the rafters in the house that Ruth built with the now banished forever "chant of 1918". which cut like a knife, through the hearts of every Sox fan and resonated "like fingers scratching a chalk board", serving to reinforce the angst of those that today are referred to as Red Sox Nation!

    To that end, I choose to challenge those that only want to see what is wrong and don't have the perspective of decades of being a second division team...My heart goes out to the fans of teams like the Texas Rangers who have endured 50 years of not revelling in the unmitigted joy of pronoucing your hometime nine "the champions of baseball" and share in the disapointment I felt after falling short, when we were this close to winning it all in 1986...



     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    In Response to Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???:
    I want a show of hands btw...how many of you want the Sox to win another WS? Or are you all just satisfied now...I get it, don't get me wrong. I probably myself have gotten complacent in the winning seasons, but I am not satisfied with the team missing out on the postseason last 2 years..The dynamics changed with the team becoming a top 3 payroll, so the expectations should/are different more so due to payroll than previous WS titles....
    Posted by dannycater


    Geesh danny, if anybody is a fan of any team of course you want them to win...however that is easier said than done.

    Every year I hope the team makes it to the postseason where anything can happen...it is usually the teams that get HOT in the postseason that end up winning it all and beating the odds on favorites.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    In Response to Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???:
    I want a show of hands btw...how many of you want the Sox to win another WS? Or are you all just satisfied now...I get it, don't get me wrong. I probably myself have gotten complacent in the winning seasons, but I am not satisfied with the team missing out on the postseason last 2 years..The dynamics changed with the team becoming a top 3 payroll, so the expectations should/are different more so due to payroll than previous WS titles....
    Posted by dannycater


    Danny - I agree with you in some sense.  Certainly, expectation is higher when your payroll is one of highest in the league.  But, the thing is, payroll in MLB, despite having no salary cap, does not bear out in correlation to championships.  Baseball is a quirky and elusive game.  unlike, say, basketball, where if you are stocked with talent you are going to the conference finals at least and are going to win 55+ games in an 82 game schedule, the only thing money guarantees you in baseball is that you are going to be competitive.  But, more than any other sport, the games are won and lost on the field.  Injuries happen.  Surprisingly bad player seasons happen all the time, and surprisingly good player seasons happen too.  Thats just the way it goes.  But, sometimes it goes the other way.

    In order to not become bitter, spoiled, dissillusioned, and just plain miserable as a fan, I really believe that it is important to accept the fickle whims of the baseball gods, and, as Jim suggests, just root for the club and know that it mostly does not work out, but thats what it so unbelievably sweet when it does.

    That is not to say that we can not be critical of moves that the FO makes, managerial gaffes, or poor performance.

    Just to recognize that, in baseball more than anywhere else, those things happen even in the best organizations, to the best players, to the starriest teams.  Dashed hopes are the rule, not the exception.

    The Phillies didn't fail last season.  they just got beat in Playoffs by a team that put together the mojo at the right time.  The Phillies were everybody's (literally) pick to represent the NL in the WS.  

    But baseball happened.  Doesn't mean that Amaro or Manuel FAILED.  Just means baseball happened.  
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    The 2011 Phillies are a perfect example of the playoff crapshoot.  They lost a 1-0 deciding game with Roy Halladay on the mound.  If Chris Carpenter doesn't have the game of his life the Phillies are quite possibly 2011 champs. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    In Response to Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???:
    The 2011 Phillies are a perfect example of the playoff crapshoot.  They lost a 1-0 deciding game with Roy Halladay on the mound.  If Chris Carpenter doesn't have the game of his life the Phillies are quite possibly 2011 champs. 
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut


    Hfx,
    I think the Phillies and the Rangers both were team that were built to win, but lost to team that was also pretty good...The Cardinal's were a much better team than their record entering the post season suggested...1 through 9 their lineup was equal too or more formidable than the Phils and Rangers. Carpenter pitched big, in big games and was clearly the best starter in the WS by a wide margin. Their pen was deep with a big armed guy to shut the door in Motte to close games with both Jackson and Garcia pitching well enough to keep them in games...Frankly if this post season proved anything it's the importance of your #1 starter winning his starts...The Rangers remind me of the 116 game winning Mariners of 2001, a team built to win over the long term, but lacked a horse at the top of the rotation with the mioxy and stuff to win big games.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    I agree with all of you on some levels, but here's the important thing to keep in mind--The Sox cleaned house based on some factors that were discussed--the team not making it into the postseason the last 2 years, not winning. I believe most of us here also would not have cared had Tito stayed as manager and Theo as GM, and I was fine with both despite my criticism of Theo for his decision. So if we weren't "worried" as level-headed fans, then how come the Executive Committee of Sox couldn't hold on to their manager, their GM, and their closer. People were thrown under buses, players reputations tarnished, Manager's rep severly hampered.....The Sox current FO has just as much to do with this year's team as it does now. There really isn't any change in the philosophy. 
     
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