Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    For 3 mos. of season RS were best team in baseball. So its not like team needs major overhaul. If I were new GM I would start w/ strength & conditioning staff / medical staff. I'm so tired of RS players showing up out of shape, these guys get paid very well not too much too ask for a player to show up ready to go come ST? How many times have we heard RS medical staff tell us a player has a minor injury and next thing we know he missing a good portion of season. 
    If we can get players back on field and playing this team will be fine, just seems for 3 years all we talk about is the injuries that ruined our season. At first I thought it was bad luck, but now firm believer there is more to it. Need a strength & conditioning staff that is on these players 24/7 12 mos. a year and a medical staff that can diagnose an injury properly and do what gets the player back 100% and on the field as quickly as possible. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    In Response to Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???:
    [QUOTE]For 3 mos. of season RS were best team in baseball. So its not like team needs major overhaul. If I were new GM I would start w/ strength & conditioning staff / medical staff. I'm so tired of RS players showing up out of shape, these guys get paid very well not too much too ask for a player to show up ready to go come ST? How many times have we heard RS medical staff tell us a player has a minor injury and next thing we know he missing a good portion of season.  If we can get players back on field and playing this team will be fine, just seems for 3 years all we talk about is the injuries that ruined our season. At first I thought it was bad luck, but now firm believer there is more to it. Need a strength & conditioning staff that is on these players 24/7 12 mos. a year and a medical staff that can diagnose an injury properly and do what gets the player back 100% and on the field as quickly as possible. 
    Posted by garyhow[/QUOTE]

    Injuries have certainly been a big part of our recent failures, but I also think we have to start planning a little more for what seems like the inevitable.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    Wastefield and Varitek and 4 to 6 million will be great injury insurance, as 2010 and 2011 proved out.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    Wake led the team to a 12-11 record despite 5 inherited runners allowed to score after he left. He was equal to or better than 55 other MLB starters who pitched a significant amount of time for their teams.

    He certainly did better than your choices: Miller, Weiland, and Wally.


    VTek had a better OPS than 22 team catcher OPS in 2011.... and he was just a back-up.

    I know you want to spend $3-5M on Hernandez and then sign 2 Ben Sheets, but you are alone there.

    VTek and Wake can probably be had for $3-3.5M combined total in 2012... not $4-6M. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    VTek and Wake can probably be had for $3-3.5M

    LMAO! Those 2 jokes can be had for minor league contracts. Weiland was never in the rotation on any schedule. Miller was quite decent on the road, and never in the rotation on any schedule.

    Wastefield didn't lead the team anywhere but a big pile. He was put in the rotation on a regular schedule and was a laughing stock pile. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from djsongs. Show djsongs's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    The true baseball fans know Carl will do a lot better next year. Remember in 2010 when the Yankees Curtis Granderson had lackluster statstics. Then in 2011 he had a tremendous year even though he played with that short right field fence in Yankee Stadium.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    VTek and Wake can probably be had for $3-3.5M

    LMAO! Those 2 jokes can be had for minor league contracts. Weiland was never in the rotation on any schedule. Miller was quite decent on the road, and never in the rotation on any schedule.

    Wastefield didn't lead the team anywhere but a big pile. He was put in the rotation on a regular schedule and was a laughing stock pile. 

    Every thread turns into a Tek/Wake bashfest with you. You really need to find a new bash buddy soon. Any idea on the 2012 model?

    The cherry picking of Miller's stats do not hide the fact that he did exactly what you say everyone else will do: he returned to his career abysmal norm. (slightly better ERA/slightly worse WHIP). I never knew home games count less than away games, but you're the "genius".

    He was in the rotation on a regular schedule for 8 straight starts in 35 days. He was removed for a reason...

    Miller's 1st 8      Wake's first 8 as a "regular"
    IP  ER  H+BB    IP  ER  H+BB
    5.2  3  10           6.2  1   1
    6.0  1   7            7.0  2   7
    6.0  2   9            6.0  4   8
    5.0  3  10           5.0  5   8
    2.2  7  10           7.0  1   9
    5.2  0    8           8.0  3   4
    3.2  5   11          6.0  5  11 
    5.2  3   11          5.1  5  11
    Total:
    40  24  76           51  26  59

    Notice Miller never went beyond 6 IP while Wake only went under 6 two times in his first 8 starts.

    Wake's first 8:  4-2  4.59   1.16  WHIP
    Miller's first 8:  4-1   5.40   1.90 WHIP

    Weiland had 24 starts in AAA and barely had a better WHIP than Wake in MLB.
    He got 5 starts in MLB for a total of 29 in 2011. That's about as regular as you can get, and certainly more "regular" than Wake's last 2 years. He only made it past 4.2 IP once. (He average 5.1 IP/GS in AAA)

    Funny how not being a "regular starter" is an excuse for Miller and Weiland, but not for Wake.

    Wake in 2011:
    Relief for April
    GS
    3 days later: relief
    2 days later: start 
    5 days later: relief
    11 days later: beginning of 17 straight starts.
    1 game of relief
    back to starter for 4 games

    Wake in 2010:
    Jerked from starter to relief and back 11 times.

    Stick to the fat and old jokes: it's more becoming of you.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    moon,

    you make a lot of sense, and always have, when it comes to Wake and Varitek, and the value they offer.  And I, for one, always appreciate the statistical work you put into your arguments.  That is why I enjoy reading all your posts defending the value of resigning Wake and/or Varitek.  So, I am not saying that you should stop.  But I will say, you will never convince some.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    moon,

    you make a lot of sense, and always have, when it comes to Wake and Varitek, and the value they offer.  And I, for one, always appreciate the statistical work you put into your arguments.  That is why I enjoy reading all your posts defending the value of resigning Wake and/or Varitek.  So, I am not saying that you should stop.  But I will say, you will never convince some.

    Thanks par...

    I'm not expecting to convince them either.

    1) I'm trying to show them that the same arguments they use against Wake make their choices look even worse.

    2) I'm not saying Wake and VTek are the best choices out there, but I'm talking about 1 #6/7 starter and a back-up catcher for pretty cheap.

    3) I've already gone on record as saying that if Papi stays, VTek is 100% gone as Lava becomes more catcher than DH. If Papi walks, VTek is but one option for backing up Salty at a low cost, but with a high familiartity position with the staff.  People want to blame Josh for needing his security binky, but the fact remains, the disparity is frightening.

    4) Wake as $1 to 1.5M choice to fill in the 6/7 starting depth chart is not great or bad, but a pretty reasonable choice. I'm happy with winning 12 of 23 starts when my 7th slot starter is forced into action for 2/3rds of the season.

    5) Wake will be starting somewhere in the bigs in 2012. Just look at the numbers of so many guys that teams were forced to stick with for long stretches this summer. The silly clown has already started his spin job on his minor league contract drivel.

    6) VTek is the Doug Flutie of MLB. Just win, baby!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    That's the thing.  Varitek plays, the Sox win.  He is better than most of the backups available, especially now that the oder Molina is signed.  If the Sox need a backup catcher, he is a bargain worth resigning.

    As for Wake, some here would pay three to four times as much for someone with a worse WHIP and ERA, just because he is younger and doesn't have a belly.  Good example, all the people who wanted Joe Blanton over Wakefield. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    Your stats splits are always contrived and loaded. Read how to lie with statistics so you can do a better job. Wastefied stinks, no matter what "first 8" nonsense you come up with. Time needs to be invested in players under 45 without big beer guts.

    Taking a washed up old womanizer on wins and losses is absurdly skewed by personal catcher nonsense. Varitek has been unable to complete any of the last 2 seasons, even as a 53 game average back-up.

    Varitek and Wastefield cost nearly 6 million in 2011. For the Red Sox to get down to business and end the country club cerominial nonsense, these are the first 2 bums who need to be kicked out the door.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    hank, I love the way you talk about Varitek and Wakefield as if they're conjoined twins. 

    Varitek made 2 million last year.  He hit 221/300/423 in 250 PA.

    The low-budget Rays paid Shoppach 3 million last year to hit 176/268/339 in 253 PA.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    In Response to Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???:
    [QUOTE]hank, I love the way you talk about Varitek and Wakefield as if they're conjoined twins.  Varitek made 2 million last year.  He hit 221/300/423 in 250 PA. The low-budget Rays paid Shoppach 3 million last year to hit 176/268/339 in 253 PA.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    ...and Mr. Hanky implies that to bring back Wake and Vtek, it will cost $6M. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    Varitek made 2 million last year. He hit 221/300/423 in 250 PA.

    You failed to note that:

    1. Varitek is pitiful fielding the position

    2. Varitek can hardly stand up the last part of the season, and has been unable to finish a season in 2 years despite averaging only 53 games. Varitek should be fresh at year end, instead, he is wooden as 40 year old men are sure to be.

    Moonslob wants to spend 3 or 4M on these 2 jokes, a year older. It has nothing to do with putting best value and fit roster and roster flexibility the trade and FA market can provide. It has everything to do with two old fan favorites who are the right color. Ortiz is the only veteran FA who earned a FA contract market offer.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    The Phillies didn't fail last season.  they just got beat in Playoffs by a team that put together the mojo at the right time.  The Phillies were everybody's (literally) pick to represent the NL in the WS.

    Space, I wasn't totally surprised that the Phils lost. They actually helped a team that matched up well with them get into the playoffs. Often it's about how teams match up. The Phils cleaned up against most teams, but the Cards gave them trouble. If the Phils were truly dominant, they would have swept the Cards. But very few teams are that dominant.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    Wha a shock a Tek and Wake debate broke out.

    Tek from a purely baseball perspective is a fine back-up and in some ways more in 2012 than 2011 assuming Lavarnway is left to finish his skills with emphasis on catching skills in AAA to start the season.

    The issue last year which the RS avoided is their back-up can't carry more than a 2 out 5 role very long at all at his age. But Salty worked out OK and in 2012 the RS AAA depth if there was an injury to Salty is better.

    Wake hasn't been either compellingly good or lucky since his 2009 back injury but as depth you could do worse and many teams do.

    But both guys may be carrying baggage. Wake would be tough to DFA mid year if it turned out he was blocking a better roster and the all time RS win streak hangs in the wind. Beyond that it is all speculation.

    Pure speculation just what the dynamics with Tek might be beyond the obvious baseball factors which are compellingly in his favor as back-up aside from the fact that he throws like Johnny Damon in catcher's gear. By example who knows if the CERA argument rages within the RS walls? If it does it could get old quick having to listen to it when Tek's use is limited by age. 

    And if the RS want to change culture it easier to move past these guys than blow out the likes of Josh Beckett, even if Beckett was more at the epicenter of unrest. Nobody knows if these veterans were part of the problem but the end result was they weren't part of the solution.

    This IMO could go either way.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    Wha a shock a Tek and Wake debate broke out.

    There's a first time for everything!

    Tek from a purely baseball perspective is a fine back-up and in some ways more in 2012 than 2011 assuming Lavarnway is left to finish his skills with emphasis on catching skills in AAA to start the season.

    The issue last year which the RS avoided is their back-up can't carry more than a 2 out 5 role very long at all at his age...

    True, but only 2 teams in MLB had a back-up catcher with more innings than VTek, so expecting more than 2 out of 5 is more than the norm. Of course, if an injury knocks Salty out for a long time, then VTek's age and durability could be a big issue. However, having Lava eases that concern somewhat.

    Wake hasn't been either compellingly good or lucky since his 2009 back injury but as depth you could do worse and many teams do.

    We are almost certainly going to sign at least a couple pure gambles to fill out the back end of the rotation and starter depth. Is Webb really a better "gamble" than Wake? His upside might be bigger, but if you had to bet on who is more likely pitch 18-24 decent starts, I'd bet on Wake.

    But both guys may be carrying baggage. Wake would be tough to DFA mid year if it turned out he was blocking a better roster and the all time RS win streak hangs in the wind. Beyond that it is all speculation.

    I know a few posters here think the whole record thing has been the driving force behind him still being here, but I disagree. Wake pitched very well from 2008 to mid 2009 at a very advanced age. Other than letting up a few more gopher balls this year, I think Wake pitched nearly as well as that 50 game stretch. He was not hit hard. The amount of bunt hits, IF hits, PBs, Sac flies, and inherited runners allowed to score were amazingly high. There are many similar options to Wake: some more expensive, and maybe a few less expensive. I just hope next year's 6/7th starter can and will lead the team to a 12-11 record.

    Pure speculation just what the dynamics with Tek might be beyond the obvious baseball factors which are compellingly in his favor as back-up aside from the fact that he throws like Johnny Damon in catcher's gear. By example who knows if the CERA argument rages within the RS walls? If it does it could get old quick having to listen to it when Tek's use is limited by age. 

    Salty should be ready to take on more innings as a catcher, but the way he broke down last year, I'm not sure if we won't need less from our back-up catcher. I just don't see many cheap options out there that don't have at least one severe limitation. Noodle arm or not, VTek gets the most out of Beckett. Call it voodoo magic or whatever, but to me, VTek is worth $1M just to pitch every 5th game with Josh.

    And if the RS want to change culture it easier to move past these guys than blow out the likes of Josh Beckett, even if Beckett was more at the epicenter of unrest. Nobody knows if these veterans were part of the problem but the end result was they weren't part of the solution.

    This IMO could go either way.

    So true.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???




    2008 thru mid-way 2009 is hardly 2012.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    In Response to Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now??? : If Crawford had a great year what would you be writing about. After the fact jack.... It's not your f....... money dude!!!
    Posted by donrd4[/QUOTE]

    Moon never posted anything under a thousand words, which is why most readers skip his statistic laden essays. He acts as if what he posts from his new "Little Steven Hawking Work Station" has an effect on what the team will do. Could be he's Luccino in disguise--trying to get the pulse of the Nation before he makes a move? No wonder things went so horribly wrong last year......
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    Moon never posted anything under a thousand words, which is why most readers skip his statistic laden essays.

    I can see how facts and data might interfere with your sense of what the truth is.

    He acts as if what he posts from his new "Little Steven Hawking Work Station" has an effect on what the team will do.

    You have no clue. I have often chastized posters like softy who actually believe anyone of importance to the operations of the team read anything on this forum.

    I give my opinions on what I think we should do. I have been wrong several times, and I admit it when I am. I have never pretended to be smarter than Theo or any Sox GM.

    Could be he's Luccino in disguise--trying to get the pulse of the Nation before he makes a move?

    Could be you're softy in disguise--trying to make it look like he has followers.

    No wonder things went so horribly wrong last year......

    Now, it sounds like it is you who thinks he has all the better answers and is trying to have "an effect the team".


     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    Wastefield did not lead the Red Sox to a 12-11 record. Utterly absurd! The Red Sox won in spite of Wastefield, not an easy task with a human T-Ball pitcher.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???

    In Response to Re: Where are all the Crawford Signing Apologists Now???:
    [QUOTE]Wastefield did not lead the Red Sox to a 12-11 record. Utterly absurd! The Red Sox won in spite of Wastefield, not an easy task with a human T-Ball pitcher.
    Posted by hankwilliams[/QUOTE]

    So does this make you a racist, since you called me one for saying the Sox won a ring "in spite of Lugo"?
     

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