Where are ALL the Doubront basher's today?????

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    Re: Where are ALL the Doubront basher's today?????

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    Id like to think I understand, and are pretty patient with young starting pitchers. Most dont come into the league with a big parade like Strasburg etc... Webster for example, had a decent 1st start, then got roughed up pretty good. Some on here were already saying he was no good. Thats foolish. This is MLB and he isnt completely ready yet, but pitching a few games in MLB before hes fully ready will prepare him that much more for whats to come. His last start was great, 6IP 1ER 5H. He still has some consistency and control to work on, but for a 23yr old kid, thats a solid improvement. Hes adjusting well and should look good in the rotation next year.

    Doubront is the same thing. I didnt like him coming into camp looking like a tub of goo for the 2nd time. I questioned his heart. But since I am not there to hear whats being said Ill just leave it that JF knows whats best. LHP can take more time to develop and thus, more patience. Hes probably the best #4-#5 in MLB right now. Doubie has become very consistent and is constantly improving.

    You just cant expect greatness from every kid that is brought up to MLB. It usually doesnt work that way. You have to be patient. Unfortunately that word is not is some Boston fans' vocabulary.



    Well said SP.  Doobie is really coming into his own these past several starts. That said, he is still our #5 and if we pick someone up via the trade market that makes him the odd man out. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. odds are that one of our current starters will go to the DL at some point before seasons end and Doobie would be a much better option to turn to than Webster and Aceves (who don't get me wrong have filled in wonderfully). Plus we really need BP help and Doobie can go out there everyday since his arm is stretched out for starting. Either way, we're in good shape going forward. I'd just like to be safe than sorry. in 2011 we desperately needed starter help down the stretch and couldn't find it anywhere. to the point where they had to keep trotting Miller and Weiland out there to get pounded.

     
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    Re: Where are ALL the Doubront basher's today?????

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Id like to think I understand, and are pretty patient with young starting pitchers. Most dont come into the league with a big parade like Strasburg etc... Webster for example, had a decent 1st start, then got roughed up pretty good. Some on here were already saying he was no good. Thats foolish. This is MLB and he isnt completely ready yet, but pitching a few games in MLB before hes fully ready will prepare him that much more for whats to come. His last start was great, 6IP 1ER 5H. He still has some consistency and control to work on, but for a 23yr old kid, thats a solid improvement. Hes adjusting well and should look good in the rotation next year.

    Doubront is the same thing. I didnt like him coming into camp looking like a tub of goo for the 2nd time. I questioned his heart. But since I am not there to hear whats being said Ill just leave it that JF knows whats best. LHP can take more time to develop and thus, more patience. Hes probably the best #4-#5 in MLB right now. Doubie has become very consistent and is constantly improving.

    You just cant expect greatness from every kid that is brought up to MLB. It usually doesnt work that way. You have to be patient. Unfortunately that word is not is some Boston fans' vocabulary.

     



    Well said SP.  Doobie is really coming into his own these past several starts. That said, he is still our #5 and if we pick someone up via the trade market that makes him the odd man out. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. odds are that one of our current starters will go to the DL at some point before seasons end and Doobie would be a much better option to turn to than Webster and Aceves (who don't get me wrong have filled in wonderfully). Plus we really need BP help and Doobie can go out there everyday since his arm is stretched out for starting. Either way, we're in good shape going forward. I'd just like to be safe than sorry. in 2011 we desperately needed starter help down the stretch and couldn't find it anywhere. to the point where they had to keep trotting Miller and Weiland out there to get pounded.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    He is not pitching like a #5. Since May 16 his ERA is 2.87 with an OPSa of .685 and has 52Ks to 25 BBs. Dempster has an ERA over the same time period of 4.44 with an OPSa of .796. Lester has an ERA of 6.26 and an OPSa of .889. As ugly as Doubront appears sometimes, the stats indicate that he has been our third most effective SP for over six weeks now. There is no way he should be demoted to the bullpen.

     
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    Re: Where are ALL the Doubront basher's today?????

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Id like to think I understand, and are pretty patient with young starting pitchers. Most dont come into the league with a big parade like Strasburg etc... Webster for example, had a decent 1st start, then got roughed up pretty good. Some on here were already saying he was no good. Thats foolish. This is MLB and he isnt completely ready yet, but pitching a few games in MLB before hes fully ready will prepare him that much more for whats to come. His last start was great, 6IP 1ER 5H. He still has some consistency and control to work on, but for a 23yr old kid, thats a solid improvement. Hes adjusting well and should look good in the rotation next year.

    Doubront is the same thing. I didnt like him coming into camp looking like a tub of goo for the 2nd time. I questioned his heart. But since I am not there to hear whats being said Ill just leave it that JF knows whats best. LHP can take more time to develop and thus, more patience. Hes probably the best #4-#5 in MLB right now. Doubie has become very consistent and is constantly improving.

    You just cant expect greatness from every kid that is brought up to MLB. It usually doesnt work that way. You have to be patient. Unfortunately that word is not is some Boston fans' vocabulary.

     

     



    Well said SP.  Doobie is really coming into his own these past several starts. That said, he is still our #5 and if we pick someone up via the trade market that makes him the odd man out. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. odds are that one of our current starters will go to the DL at some point before seasons end and Doobie would be a much better option to turn to than Webster and Aceves (who don't get me wrong have filled in wonderfully). Plus we really need BP help and Doobie can go out there everyday since his arm is stretched out for starting. Either way, we're in good shape going forward. I'd just like to be safe than sorry. in 2011 we desperately needed starter help down the stretch and couldn't find it anywhere. to the point where they had to keep trotting Miller and Weiland out there to get pounded.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    He is not pitching like a #5. Since May 16 his ERA is 2.87 with an OPSa of .685 and has 52Ks to 25 BBs. Dempster has an ERA over the same time period of 4.44 with an OPSa of .796. Lester has an ERA of 6.26 and an OPSa of .889. As ugly as Doubront appears sometimes, the stats indicate that he has been our third most effective SP for over six weeks now. There is no way he should be demoted to the bullpen.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    i like Doobs a lot and agree with that but who is JF more likely to send to the BP? any one of our 4 vets on a healthy staff in Lester, Buch, Demp, Lackey. Or a 2nd year pitcher in Felix Doubront.

    Not to mention i believe Doobie would be a more effective relief pitcher than Lester, Demp or Lackey. tell him to turn up the gas since he doesn't have to worry about going deep into games.

     
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    Re: Where are ALL the Doubront basher's today?????

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    Id like to think I understand, and are pretty patient with young starting pitchers. Most dont come into the league with a big parade like Strasburg etc... Webster for example, had a decent 1st start, then got roughed up pretty good. Some on here were already saying he was no good. Thats foolish. This is MLB and he isnt completely ready yet, but pitching a few games in MLB before hes fully ready will prepare him that much more for whats to come. His last start was great, 6IP 1ER 5H. He still has some consistency and control to work on, but for a 23yr old kid, thats a solid improvement. Hes adjusting well and should look good in the rotation next year.

    Doubront is the same thing. I didnt like him coming into camp looking like a tub of goo for the 2nd time. I questioned his heart. But since I am not there to hear whats being said Ill just leave it that JF knows whats best. LHP can take more time to develop and thus, more patience. Hes probably the best #4-#5 in MLB right now. Doubie has become very consistent and is constantly improving.

    You just cant expect greatness from every kid that is brought up to MLB. It usually doesnt work that way. You have to be patient. Unfortunately that word is not is some Boston fans' vocabulary.

     

     

     



    Well said SP.  Doobie is really coming into his own these past several starts. That said, he is still our #5 and if we pick someone up via the trade market that makes him the odd man out. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. odds are that one of our current starters will go to the DL at some point before seasons end and Doobie would be a much better option to turn to than Webster and Aceves (who don't get me wrong have filled in wonderfully). Plus we really need BP help and Doobie can go out there everyday since his arm is stretched out for starting. Either way, we're in good shape going forward. I'd just like to be safe than sorry. in 2011 we desperately needed starter help down the stretch and couldn't find it anywhere. to the point where they had to keep trotting Miller and Weiland out there to get pounded.

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    He is not pitching like a #5. Since May 16 his ERA is 2.87 with an OPSa of .685 and has 52Ks to 25 BBs. Dempster has an ERA over the same time period of 4.44 with an OPSa of .796. Lester has an ERA of 6.26 and an OPSa of .889. As ugly as Doubront appears sometimes, the stats indicate that he has been our third most effective SP for over six weeks now. There is no way he should be demoted to the bullpen.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    i like Doobs a lot and agree with that but who is JF more likely to send to the BP? any one of our 4 vets on a healthy staff in Lester, Buch, Demp, Lackey. Or a 2nd year pitcher in Felix Doubront.

     

    Not to mention i believe Doobie would be a more effective relief pitcher than Lester, Demp or Lackey. tell him to turn up the gas since he doesn't have to worry about going deep into games.

    [/QUOTE]


    Dempster has plenty of BP experience. In the playoffs a 1-2-3 punch of Lackey, Buchholz and Lester should be just fine in a short series. I also would have no issue with either Doubie or Demp being our 4th guy in a long series. Id trust Lackey or Lester to go on short rest out of those guys if need be.

    I know what your getting at. You want to try and get someone like Garza just in case someone goes down. But thats why we have Aceves and Webster. Doubie belongs in this rotation right now. getting a Garza type only disrupts whats going good right now and costs us prospects for something that hasnt, or might not even happen.

     
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    Re: Where are ALL the Doubront basher's today?????

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

     

     

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    Id like to think I understand, and are pretty patient with young starting pitchers. Most dont come into the league with a big parade like Strasburg etc... Webster for example, had a decent 1st start, then got roughed up pretty good. Some on here were already saying he was no good. Thats foolish. This is MLB and he isnt completely ready yet, but pitching a few games in MLB before hes fully ready will prepare him that much more for whats to come. His last start was great, 6IP 1ER 5H. He still has some consistency and control to work on, but for a 23yr old kid, thats a solid improvement. Hes adjusting well and should look good in the rotation next year.

    Doubront is the same thing. I didnt like him coming into camp looking like a tub of goo for the 2nd time. I questioned his heart. But since I am not there to hear whats being said Ill just leave it that JF knows whats best. LHP can take more time to develop and thus, more patience. Hes probably the best #4-#5 in MLB right now. Doubie has become very consistent and is constantly improving.

    You just cant expect greatness from every kid that is brought up to MLB. It usually doesnt work that way. You have to be patient. Unfortunately that word is not is some Boston fans' vocabulary.

     

     

     

     



    Well said SP.  Doobie is really coming into his own these past several starts. That said, he is still our #5 and if we pick someone up via the trade market that makes him the odd man out. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. odds are that one of our current starters will go to the DL at some point before seasons end and Doobie would be a much better option to turn to than Webster and Aceves (who don't get me wrong have filled in wonderfully). Plus we really need BP help and Doobie can go out there everyday since his arm is stretched out for starting. Either way, we're in good shape going forward. I'd just like to be safe than sorry. in 2011 we desperately needed starter help down the stretch and couldn't find it anywhere. to the point where they had to keep trotting Miller and Weiland out there to get pounded.

     

     

     

     

     

     



    He is not pitching like a #5. Since May 16 his ERA is 2.87 with an OPSa of .685 and has 52Ks to 25 BBs. Dempster has an ERA over the same time period of 4.44 with an OPSa of .796. Lester has an ERA of 6.26 and an OPSa of .889. As ugly as Doubront appears sometimes, the stats indicate that he has been our third most effective SP for over six weeks now. There is no way he should be demoted to the bullpen.

     

     

     

     



    i like Doobs a lot and agree with that but who is JF more likely to send to the BP? any one of our 4 vets on a healthy staff in Lester, Buch, Demp, Lackey. Or a 2nd year pitcher in Felix Doubront.

     

     

    Not to mention i believe Doobie would be a more effective relief pitcher than Lester, Demp or Lackey. tell him to turn up the gas since he doesn't have to worry about going deep into games.




    Dempster has plenty of BP experience. In the playoffs a 1-2-3 punch of Lackey, Buchholz and Lester should be just fine in a short series. I also would have no issue with either Doubie or Demp being our 4th guy in a long series. Id trust Lackey or Lester to go on short rest out of those guys if need be.

     

    I know what your getting at. You want to try and get someone like Garza just in case someone goes down. But thats why we have Aceves and Webster. Doubie belongs in this rotation right now. getting a Garza type only disrupts whats going good right now and costs us prospects for something that hasnt, or might not even happen.




    From our FO point of view I would be looking at Garza too.  We already have Clay out and don't know how he will do when he returns.  Heck he may get hurt all over again and not even be around for the PS.  Jon is up and down and although I never expected it, Lackey is our second best pitcher.  I don't think or FO considers guys like Doub, Webster, Aceves, Morales and Demp anything but inconsistent depth, not the consistent #3/4 guy Garza is that could silence big bats in the PS.

    We are not going to be scoring 5 to 7 runs a game in the playoffs and need one more dependable arm.  It may not be Garza but we are smart to be looking at the entire picture.

     
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    Re: Where are ALL the Doubront basher's today?????

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

     

     

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    Id like to think I understand, and are pretty patient with young starting pitchers. Most dont come into the league with a big parade like Strasburg etc... Webster for example, had a decent 1st start, then got roughed up pretty good. Some on here were already saying he was no good. Thats foolish. This is MLB and he isnt completely ready yet, but pitching a few games in MLB before hes fully ready will prepare him that much more for whats to come. His last start was great, 6IP 1ER 5H. He still has some consistency and control to work on, but for a 23yr old kid, thats a solid improvement. Hes adjusting well and should look good in the rotation next year.

    Doubront is the same thing. I didnt like him coming into camp looking like a tub of goo for the 2nd time. I questioned his heart. But since I am not there to hear whats being said Ill just leave it that JF knows whats best. LHP can take more time to develop and thus, more patience. Hes probably the best #4-#5 in MLB right now. Doubie has become very consistent and is constantly improving.

    You just cant expect greatness from every kid that is brought up to MLB. It usually doesnt work that way. You have to be patient. Unfortunately that word is not is some Boston fans' vocabulary.

     

     

     

     



    Well said SP.  Doobie is really coming into his own these past several starts. That said, he is still our #5 and if we pick someone up via the trade market that makes him the odd man out. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. odds are that one of our current starters will go to the DL at some point before seasons end and Doobie would be a much better option to turn to than Webster and Aceves (who don't get me wrong have filled in wonderfully). Plus we really need BP help and Doobie can go out there everyday since his arm is stretched out for starting. Either way, we're in good shape going forward. I'd just like to be safe than sorry. in 2011 we desperately needed starter help down the stretch and couldn't find it anywhere. to the point where they had to keep trotting Miller and Weiland out there to get pounded.

     

     

     

     

     

     



    He is not pitching like a #5. Since May 16 his ERA is 2.87 with an OPSa of .685 and has 52Ks to 25 BBs. Dempster has an ERA over the same time period of 4.44 with an OPSa of .796. Lester has an ERA of 6.26 and an OPSa of .889. As ugly as Doubront appears sometimes, the stats indicate that he has been our third most effective SP for over six weeks now. There is no way he should be demoted to the bullpen.

     

     

     

     



    i like Doobs a lot and agree with that but who is JF more likely to send to the BP? any one of our 4 vets on a healthy staff in Lester, Buch, Demp, Lackey. Or a 2nd year pitcher in Felix Doubront.

     

     

    Not to mention i believe Doobie would be a more effective relief pitcher than Lester, Demp or Lackey. tell him to turn up the gas since he doesn't have to worry about going deep into games.




    Dempster has plenty of BP experience. In the playoffs a 1-2-3 punch of Lackey, Buchholz and Lester should be just fine in a short series. I also would have no issue with either Doubie or Demp being our 4th guy in a long series. Id trust Lackey or Lester to go on short rest out of those guys if need be.

     

    I know what your getting at. You want to try and get someone like Garza just in case someone goes down. But thats why we have Aceves and Webster. Doubie belongs in this rotation right now. getting a Garza type only disrupts whats going good right now and costs us prospects for something that hasnt, or might not even happen.

     




    From our FO point of view I would be looking at Garza too.  We already have Clay out and don't know how he will do when he returns.  Heck he may get hurt all over again and not even be around for the PS.  Jon is up and down and although I never expected it, Lackey is our second best pitcher.  I don't think or FO considers guys like Doub, Webster, Aceves, Morales and Demp anything but inconsistent depth, not the consistent #3/4 guy Garza is that could silence big bats in the PS.

     

    We are not going to be scoring 5 to 7 runs a game in the playoffs and need one more dependable arm.  It may not be Garza but we are smart to be looking at the entire picture.

    [/QUOTE]

    +1.

     
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    Re: Where are ALL the Doubront basher's today?????

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    Id like to think I understand, and are pretty patient with young starting pitchers. Most dont come into the league with a big parade like Strasburg etc... Webster for example, had a decent 1st start, then got roughed up pretty good. Some on here were already saying he was no good. Thats foolish. This is MLB and he isnt completely ready yet, but pitching a few games in MLB before hes fully ready will prepare him that much more for whats to come. His last start was great, 6IP 1ER 5H. He still has some consistency and control to work on, but for a 23yr old kid, thats a solid improvement. Hes adjusting well and should look good in the rotation next year.

    Doubront is the same thing. I didnt like him coming into camp looking like a tub of goo for the 2nd time. I questioned his heart. But since I am not there to hear whats being said Ill just leave it that JF knows whats best. LHP can take more time to develop and thus, more patience. Hes probably the best #4-#5 in MLB right now. Doubie has become very consistent and is constantly improving.

    You just cant expect greatness from every kid that is brought up to MLB. It usually doesnt work that way. You have to be patient. Unfortunately that word is not is some Boston fans' vocabulary.

     

     

     



    Well said SP.  Doobie is really coming into his own these past several starts. That said, he is still our #5 and if we pick someone up via the trade market that makes him the odd man out. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. odds are that one of our current starters will go to the DL at some point before seasons end and Doobie would be a much better option to turn to than Webster and Aceves (who don't get me wrong have filled in wonderfully). Plus we really need BP help and Doobie can go out there everyday since his arm is stretched out for starting. Either way, we're in good shape going forward. I'd just like to be safe than sorry. in 2011 we desperately needed starter help down the stretch and couldn't find it anywhere. to the point where they had to keep trotting Miller and Weiland out there to get pounded.

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    He is not pitching like a #5. Since May 16 his ERA is 2.87 with an OPSa of .685 and has 52Ks to 25 BBs. Dempster has an ERA over the same time period of 4.44 with an OPSa of .796. Lester has an ERA of 6.26 and an OPSa of .889. As ugly as Doubront appears sometimes, the stats indicate that he has been our third most effective SP for over six weeks now. There is no way he should be demoted to the bullpen.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    i like Doobs a lot and agree with that but who is JF more likely to send to the BP? any one of our 4 vets on a healthy staff in Lester, Buch, Demp, Lackey. Or a 2nd year pitcher in Felix Doubront.

     

    Not to mention i believe Doobie would be a more effective relief pitcher than Lester, Demp or Lackey. tell him to turn up the gas since he doesn't have to worry about going deep into games.

    [/QUOTE]


    To be honest MEF I didn't like Doobie until I looked at his numbers over the last 51 days. His effectiveness is deceiving because of his relatively high WHIP. He is getting the job done, but he is doing it ugly. Still, the bottom line is that he is not allowing many runs, and thats how you win games. Last night he kept us in a close game until we could pull away late. When Morales comes back he could be our #8 SP behind Ace and Webster at #6 and 7. I agree that you can never have too much pitching, but acquiring Garza would not only cost us a good prospect but would also be disruptive to a starting staff that is already getting the job done.

     
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    Re: Where are ALL the Doubront basher's today?????

    I think quite a few playoff teams will have a better 3rd starter than us. We may have better 4,5 and 6 starters, but that doesn't count as much in the playoffs.

    That being said, starting pitchers are way over-priced at the deadline. I think we are better suited to get a quality SP this winter, and at the deadline pick up a solid pen arm and a 3Bman that can kill lefties. (Drew would sit vs LHPs, and Iggy would go between SS and 3B depending on the opp's starter.)

    Sox4ever

     
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    Re: Where are ALL the Doubront basher's today?????

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    Nova win against the O's last night a complete game, 9 innings 3 hits 1 BB 11 Ks. 95-96 mph fastball the entire game, 2.73 era his last 4 outings.

    For now 6 starters.

    I took my son to the game.  It was fun to watch.  A few wicked hit line drives directly into someone's glove, but what I thought was a ridiculous number of off-balanced swings.  You can't tell at the stadium what;s fooling the hitters, but you get a pretty good glimpse at players leaning and swinging at the same time, and that never works out.

    But mostly, he has a 48/14 K/W.  That usually implies a fairly high level of success.

    As well as he's pitching, and I like him more than Hughes right now, I wonder if SD might think about Headley/Nova+?  Headley is better, but there is a decent amount of money involved.

     

    He had a lot of success with his curveball last night.

    Anything is possible but Nova is currently pitching better than anyone in the Yankee rotation.

    Phelps was just put on the 15 day DL for a sore fore arm and I doubt you'll see Hughes re-signed next season.

    If anything Hughes will be shopped to a team with a large stadium as a rental.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Where are ALL the Doubront basher's today?????

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I think quite a few playoff teams will have a better 3rd starter than us. We may have better 4,5 and 6 starters, but that doesn't count as much in the playoffs.

    That being said, starting pitchers are way over-priced at the deadline. I think we are better suited to get a quality SP this winter, and at the deadline pick up a solid pen arm and a 3Bman that can kill lefties. (Drew would sit vs LHPs, and Iggy would go between SS and 3B depending on the opp's starter.)

    Sox4ever



    If Doubront can be as effective as he has been since May 15 (a big if) then we have three SP with ERAs under 3. I would match them up against just about any top three in baseball-especially when you consider that our SP are going to get more run support than any team in baseball more than likely.

     
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    Re: Where are ALL the Doubront basher's today?????

    I have to admit, I am concerned about his lack of conditioning and sometimes his heart. But he is a mere 25 years old. Im not always a big stat guy, but I compared his numbers (the ones this board feels are relevant) against what i consider to be the greatest lefty of all time, at ages 24 & 25. Doubs still has not finished this  season but what the heck. The mound was a bit higher in this hall of famers heyday as well, which gave a further advantage to the pitcher. This little tidbit should give away who the HOF was.
    . From 1903 through 1968, this height limit was set at 15 inches, but was often slightly higher, sometimes as high as 20 inches (50.8 cm), especially for teams that emphasized pitching, such as the Los Angeles Dodgers, who were reputed to have the highest mound in the majors.

    Today that can be no more then 10"

     

                                   W/L          ERA       Whip      S/9

    Doubs                     16/13        4.45       1.446     9.03

    Hall Of famer           16/19        3.97        1.405    10.1

     

    Maybe we need to let Doubs get a few more years under his belt!

     

     

    I dont like facts, they cloud my irresponsible Judgement!

    I often go back to read what i wrote only to find out it's not what I said!

     
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    Re: Where are ALL the Doubront basher's today?????

    If the Sox do it right they can give him a 2 week rest after his next start. Could be very important going down the stretch. Those extra days off after All-Star game could be a good time to skip a start     for some of the regulars. Bring up a kid for a spot start. Problem is you have to bring them out West to do it.

     
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    Re: Where are ALL the Doubront basher's today?????

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Id like to think I understand, and are pretty patient with young starting pitchers. Most dont come into the league with a big parade like Strasburg etc... Webster for example, had a decent 1st start, then got roughed up pretty good. Some on here were already saying he was no good. Thats foolish. This is MLB and he isnt completely ready yet, but pitching a few games in MLB before hes fully ready will prepare him that much more for whats to come. His last start was great, 6IP 1ER 5H. He still has some consistency and control to work on, but for a 23yr old kid, thats a solid improvement. Hes adjusting well and should look good in the rotation next year.

    Doubront is the same thing. I didnt like him coming into camp looking like a tub of goo for the 2nd time. I questioned his heart. But since I am not there to hear whats being said Ill just leave it that JF knows whats best. LHP can take more time to develop and thus, more patience. Hes probably the best #4-#5 in MLB right now. Doubie has become very consistent and is constantly improving.

    You just cant expect greatness from every kid that is brought up to MLB. It usually doesnt work that way. You have to be patient. Unfortunately that word is not is some Boston fans' vocabulary.

     

     



    Well said SP.  Doobie is really coming into his own these past several starts. That said, he is still our #5 and if we pick someone up via the trade market that makes him the odd man out. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. odds are that one of our current starters will go to the DL at some point before seasons end and Doobie would be a much better option to turn to than Webster and Aceves (who don't get me wrong have filled in wonderfully). Plus we really need BP help and Doobie can go out there everyday since his arm is stretched out for starting. Either way, we're in good shape going forward. I'd just like to be safe than sorry. in 2011 we desperately needed starter help down the stretch and couldn't find it anywhere. to the point where they had to keep trotting Miller and Weiland out there to get pounded.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    He is not pitching like a #5. Since May 16 his ERA is 2.87 with an OPSa of .685 and has 52Ks to 25 BBs. Dempster has an ERA over the same time period of 4.44 with an OPSa of .796. Lester has an ERA of 6.26 and an OPSa of .889. As ugly as Doubront appears sometimes, the stats indicate that he has been our third most effective SP for over six weeks now. There is no way he should be demoted to the bullpen.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    He is at best, right now, a BOTR borderline SP.

    Not for nothing, but didn't you just post that?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Where are ALL the Doubront basher's today?????

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    Id like to think I understand, and are pretty patient with young starting pitchers. Most dont come into the league with a big parade like Strasburg etc... Webster for example, had a decent 1st start, then got roughed up pretty good. Some on here were already saying he was no good. Thats foolish. This is MLB and he isnt completely ready yet, but pitching a few games in MLB before hes fully ready will prepare him that much more for whats to come. His last start was great, 6IP 1ER 5H. He still has some consistency and control to work on, but for a 23yr old kid, thats a solid improvement. Hes adjusting well and should look good in the rotation next year.

    Doubront is the same thing. I didnt like him coming into camp looking like a tub of goo for the 2nd time. I questioned his heart. But since I am not there to hear whats being said Ill just leave it that JF knows whats best. LHP can take more time to develop and thus, more patience. Hes probably the best #4-#5 in MLB right now. Doubie has become very consistent and is constantly improving.

    You just cant expect greatness from every kid that is brought up to MLB. It usually doesnt work that way. You have to be patient. Unfortunately that word is not is some Boston fans' vocabulary.

     

     

     



    Well said SP.  Doobie is really coming into his own these past several starts. That said, he is still our #5 and if we pick someone up via the trade market that makes him the odd man out. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. odds are that one of our current starters will go to the DL at some point before seasons end and Doobie would be a much better option to turn to than Webster and Aceves (who don't get me wrong have filled in wonderfully). Plus we really need BP help and Doobie can go out there everyday since his arm is stretched out for starting. Either way, we're in good shape going forward. I'd just like to be safe than sorry. in 2011 we desperately needed starter help down the stretch and couldn't find it anywhere. to the point where they had to keep trotting Miller and Weiland out there to get pounded.

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    He is not pitching like a #5. Since May 16 his ERA is 2.87 with an OPSa of .685 and has 52Ks to 25 BBs. Dempster has an ERA over the same time period of 4.44 with an OPSa of .796. Lester has an ERA of 6.26 and an OPSa of .889. As ugly as Doubront appears sometimes, the stats indicate that he has been our third most effective SP for over six weeks now. There is no way he should be demoted to the bullpen.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    He is at best, right now, a BOTR borderline SP.

     

    Not for nothing, but didn't you just post that?

    [/QUOTE]

    just last night he said in the chat that "watching Doobie pitch is like getting a root canal"

     
  17. This post has been removed.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where are ALL the Doubront basher's today?????

    In response to cedarwood's comment:

    Pumpsie often can't keep track of who to bash and why. It must be tough being a forum designated basher.

    Please! We all know you are the #1 basher, but you bash posters while others at least are talking baseball when they bash players.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where are ALL the Doubront basher's today?????

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    I think quite a few playoff teams will have a better 3rd starter than us. We may have better 4,5 and 6 starters, but that doesn't count as much in the playoffs.

    That being said, starting pitchers are way over-priced at the deadline. I think we are better suited to get a quality SP this winter, and at the deadline pick up a solid pen arm and a 3Bman that can kill lefties. (Drew would sit vs LHPs, and Iggy would go between SS and 3B depending on the opp's starter.)

    Sox4ever

     



    If Doubront can be as effective as he has been since May 15 (a big if) then we have three SP with ERAs under 3. I would match them up against just about any top three in baseball-especially when you consider that our SP are going to get more run support than any team in baseball more than likely.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Doubront is certainly pitching as well as anyone else's 3rd starter, but I can't bring myself to believe that he'd have a better chance of winning a playoff game than some of these guys:

    Detroit: Scherzer, Verlander, A Sanchez

    Oakland: Colon, Griffin, 3? (Milone/Parker/Straily)

    Texas: Darvish, Holland, Ogando

    NYY: Sabathia, Kuroda, 3? (Pettitte, Nova, Hughes)

     

    Gotta love the way this Doubront and the staff has held together as Buch has been out.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Where are ALL the Doubront basher's today?????

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    I think quite a few playoff teams will have a better 3rd starter than us. We may have better 4,5 and 6 starters, but that doesn't count as much in the playoffs.

    That being said, starting pitchers are way over-priced at the deadline. I think we are better suited to get a quality SP this winter, and at the deadline pick up a solid pen arm and a 3Bman that can kill lefties. (Drew would sit vs LHPs, and Iggy would go between SS and 3B depending on the opp's starter.)

    Sox4ever

     

     



    If Doubront can be as effective as he has been since May 15 (a big if) then we have three SP with ERAs under 3. I would match them up against just about any top three in baseball-especially when you consider that our SP are going to get more run support than any team in baseball more than likely.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Doubront is certainly pitching as well as anyone else's 3rd starter, but I can't bring myself to believe that he'd have a better chance of winning a playoff game than some of these guys:

     

    Detroit: Scherzer, Verlander, A Sanchez

    Oakland: Colon, Griffin, 3? (Milone/Parker/Straily)

    Texas: Darvish, Holland, Ogando

    NYY: Sabathia, Kuroda, 3? (Pettitte, Nova, Hughes)

     

    Gotta love the way this Doubront and the staff has held together as Buch has been out.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Playoff games can be a funny animal. Doubront in a game three start doesn't scare me if the kids arm is still strong. End of the day if and when that senerio presents itself. He doesn't have to face the other pitcher. just has to pitch his game and keep the other team off the board. That said, with Lester and Lackey we match up with any of the above top two. With a healthy Buccholz Our starting rotation matches up with any in a short series. Which then means that Doubront or Dempster would get one start while the other would pitched out off the pen. 

    On paper no one can match up with the Tigers top two...but that's why they play the games...

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Where are ALL the Doubront basher's today?????

    Playoff games can be a funny animal. Doubront in a game three start doesn't scare me if the kids arm is still strong. End of the day if and when that senerio presents itself. He doesn't have to face the other pitcher. just has to pitch his game and keep the other team off the board. That said, with Lester and Lackey we match up with any of the above top two. With a healthy Buccholz Our starting rotation matches up with any in a short series. Which then means that Doubront or Dempster would get one start while the other would pitched out off the pen. 

     

    On paper no one can match up with the Tigers top two...but that's why they play the games...

    Doubront in the playoffs doesn't bother me at all.  I tend to view things thru an anti-EE perspective, but I always thought, if you can pitch well against the NYY, especially at YS, then you can probably pitch well in the playoffs.

    And the Tigers will be formidable, assuming we get that far, but my feeling is every opponent is pretty formidable in the playoffs.  It's too early for conjecture, but in this regard, best record is huge.  It means you face the winner of the WC play-in, against a team that likely just used their best SP.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where are ALL the Doubront basher's today?????

    In response to Beantowne's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    I think quite a few playoff teams will have a better 3rd starter than us. We may have better 4,5 and 6 starters, but that doesn't count as much in the playoffs.

    That being said, starting pitchers are way over-priced at the deadline. I think we are better suited to get a quality SP this winter, and at the deadline pick up a solid pen arm and a 3Bman that can kill lefties. (Drew would sit vs LHPs, and Iggy would go between SS and 3B depending on the opp's starter.)

    Sox4ever

     

     

     



    If Doubront can be as effective as he has been since May 15 (a big if) then we have three SP with ERAs under 3. I would match them up against just about any top three in baseball-especially when you consider that our SP are going to get more run support than any team in baseball more than likely.

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Doubront is certainly pitching as well as anyone else's 3rd starter, but I can't bring myself to believe that he'd have a better chance of winning a playoff game than some of these guys:

     

     

    Detroit: Scherzer, Verlander, A Sanchez

    Oakland: Colon, Griffin, 3? (Milone/Parker/Straily)

    Texas: Darvish, Holland, Ogando

    NYY: Sabathia, Kuroda, 3? (Pettitte, Nova, Hughes)

     

    Gotta love the way this Doubront and the staff has held together as Buch has been out.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Playoff games can be a funny animal. Doubront in a game three start doesn't scare me if the kids arm is still strong. End of the day if and when that senerio presents itself. He doesn't have to face the other pitcher. just has to pitch his game and keep the other team off the board. That said, with Lester and Lackey we match up with any of the above top two. With a healthy Buccholz Our starting rotation matches up with any in a short series. Which then means that Doubront or Dempster would get one start while the other would pitched out off the pen. 

     

    On paper no one can match up with the Tigers top two...but that's why they play the games...

    [/QUOTE]

    The Tigers' 3rd starter can not be bested either.

    These days, there aren't as many days off in the playoffs as prior to 2012. You basically need 4 starters. I like our 3 and 4 starters, and one could argue they are the same or better than all but 1 or 2 AL teams on paper.

    There's a solid chance Lester, Doubront or Dempster will become consistent and reliable enough to trust for a game 3, but we also need Buch and Lackey healthy as well as a 4th starter to be good enough to keep us in a game. I'm pretty confident we can doo all of this, but there is also a good chance that by the end of the season, things will not look so peachy.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Where are ALL the Doubront basher's today?????

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

     

    Id like to think I understand, and are pretty patient with young starting pitchers. Most dont come into the league with a big parade like Strasburg etc... Webster for example, had a decent 1st start, then got roughed up pretty good. Some on here were already saying he was no good. Thats foolish. This is MLB and he isnt completely ready yet, but pitching a few games in MLB before hes fully ready will prepare him that much more for whats to come. His last start was great, 6IP 1ER 5H. He still has some consistency and control to work on, but for a 23yr old kid, thats a solid improvement. Hes adjusting well and should look good in the rotation next year.

    Doubront is the same thing. I didnt like him coming into camp looking like a tub of goo for the 2nd time. I questioned his heart. But since I am not there to hear whats being said Ill just leave it that JF knows whats best. LHP can take more time to develop and thus, more patience. Hes probably the best #4-#5 in MLB right now. Doubie has become very consistent and is constantly improving.

    You just cant expect greatness from every kid that is brought up to MLB. It usually doesnt work that way. You have to be patient. Unfortunately that word is not is some Boston fans' vocabulary.

     

     

     

     



    Well said SP.  Doobie is really coming into his own these past several starts. That said, he is still our #5 and if we pick someone up via the trade market that makes him the odd man out. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. odds are that one of our current starters will go to the DL at some point before seasons end and Doobie would be a much better option to turn to than Webster and Aceves (who don't get me wrong have filled in wonderfully). Plus we really need BP help and Doobie can go out there everyday since his arm is stretched out for starting. Either way, we're in good shape going forward. I'd just like to be safe than sorry. in 2011 we desperately needed starter help down the stretch and couldn't find it anywhere. to the point where they had to keep trotting Miller and Weiland out there to get pounded.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    He is not pitching like a #5. Since May 16 his ERA is 2.87 with an OPSa of .685 and has 52Ks to 25 BBs. Dempster has an ERA over the same time period of 4.44 with an OPSa of .796. Lester has an ERA of 6.26 and an OPSa of .889. As ugly as Doubront appears sometimes, the stats indicate that he has been our third most effective SP for over six weeks now. There is no way he should be demoted to the bullpen.

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    He is at best, right now, a BOTR borderline SP.

     

     

    Not for nothing, but didn't you just post that?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    just last night he said in the chat that "watching Doobie pitch is like getting a root canal"

     

    [/QUOTE]


    It is MEF. Like I told you, until I looked at his stats from May 15 forward, a period covering over 7 weeks during which his ERA is 2.87, I was not impressed by him. He reminds me of DiceK in 2008 when he had an ERA of 2.90 but a WHIP of 1.324. Doobie's WHIP is now 1.446. While ERA (or ERA+, preferably) IMO is the most important SINGLE stat to evaluate the performance of a pitcher, WHIP is also important. If you are always putting guys on base you will not go deep into games and you will tax your bullpen. He is doing the job, but he is doing it ugly.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Where are ALL the Doubront basher's today?????

    Pumsie is now looking at the past few performances rather than season long statistics.
    That's PROGRESS! Smile

    Having the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Where are ALL the Doubront basher's today?????

    In response to S5's comment:

    Pumsie is now looking at the past few performances rather than season long statistics.
    That's PROGRESS! Smile

    Having the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.



    That's not going to work out any better than his calculus for determinging that Doubront is a borderline BOTR pitcher, at best.  In other words, a very marginal candidate for the 5-slot.

    In the 7 games prior to that statement, Doubront had a 2.81 ERA with 6 IP/GS, with a .668 OPSa, and a 39/16 K/W.  In the 3 starts since he made his statement, Doubront has a 3.00 ERA, with 6 IP/GS, with a .726 OPSa, and a 13/9 K/W.

    In other words, he has pitched worse since Pumpsie said he was a borderline #5, at best, which convinced Pumpsie to change his opinion.

     
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