Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    It was disturbing reading about what happened to Babe. He apparently was texting into this forum while he was out for a walk down in Florida and fell into a swamp and was attacked by several alligators.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    Where are my fries! 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    In Response to Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest:
    [QUOTE]This RidingWithTheKing character has a lot of anger and has an apparent unhealthy obsession with Wakerfield sic  and Varitek. 3 or 4M on Wastefield is not cheap, and make sure my federal government disapproves greasy fries are up on time!
    Posted by hankwilliams[/QUOTE]


    He probably just wanted him to break Roger Clemens's record!!!!  God....that is going to take him to age of 50 years old to break that record!!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    moon, given our meltdown last year by this team, and the fact that these veterans were part of the problem, why would you advocate keeping them under a new regime????

    How was Wakefield part of the problem?  Wasn't he our best starter in September?  There were 11 pitchers on the roster in september with worse ERAs.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    I do wonder why they do not create a stat for inning eating - IE.  Wakefield would not even make the top 50 in this category.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    September record collapse. Wastefield, Joe says, best in September. Pretty obvious why Wastefield is begging vis a vis his agent, with promise to never do it again if Ben will welfare another few million. Please, Ben, I can out beg Wastefield. Never let that fat face and beer gut back in a Red Sox uni for T-Ball and circus time.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    Prediction: when Wake signs a ML deal for over $1M, softy changes monikers and denies he ever said Wake would not get a ML offer.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    Prediction: Unless Cherry gives out charity, no other team will offer a MLB contract over 1M. If so, I will personally donate to to Wastefield conate to help the gm fool from another franchise.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    What will you donate? 20 pounds of potato salad?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest



    God, the entertainment is increible!  Thanks, guys.

    I just can't wait to see how the Wakefield thing plays out.  This is better than Dexter, the Sopranos, or Boardwalk Empire. ...LOL
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    I'd say there's a 5-10% chance Wake is back here, a 80-85% chance he signs with another team (at $1.5M or so), and 5-15% cahnce he retires or ends up on a minor league deal in hopes of making a team in ST (and retiring if he doesn't).

    VTek: 
    If Papi walks, I'd say he has a 20-25% chance of returning here. &5-80% he signs elsewhere. (Lava will DH a lot and we'll need a cheap vet catcher as a back-up)

    If Papi stays, I'd say 0-1% chance VTek stays here.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    "I disagree with you about these young Red Sox pitchers are middle relief corps. How old is Wilson.  He was drafted in early 2000's as a starting pitcher before moving to bullpen and then back as a starting pitcher.  So therefore, Texas kept giving him bunch of chances until he finally proven himself that he belong to the Texas rotation in the last two years.  If Wilson is part of Boston's organization at the same time Theo is the GM, Wilson will  never be call up cuz Theo kept signing short term starting pitchers every year where he blocked most young pitchers from moving up to the major league level especially in the last three years.  Therefore, give Weiland, Bowen, Droubmont and Tazwaza a chance. "

    But you are wrong.

    Just because CJ Wilson took multiple chances to succeed doesn't change this.  During his time in Texas, the Rangers also acquired many veteran pitchers.  They brought in guys like Kevin Millwood and Pedro Astacio and Cliff Lee.  Did that keep Wilson out of the rotation?  By yuor logic, it did.

    And how many fans gave up on Clay Buchholz before the Sox did?   How many thought he even deserved another chance in 2009?  I don't remember seeing any flattering posts about Buchholz that entire year, except maybe mine saying its just one season.  Nooooooooo!  you all told me.  He would never ovecome that "deer in the headlights look" all the scouty wanna-bes told me was a sure sign of failure.

    How mnay gave up on Jon Lester before the Sox did?  I remember reading posts after the Gagne trade that many fans felt the Sox, and I quote directly, "gave up the wrong left hander."  Anyone still want Kason Gabbard instead?

    The reality is the Sox DO give players multiple chances, and finding a single incident of another team doing so and saying the Sox would not have does not disprove this.  The reality is also that other teams DO sign veteran arms and don't always simply rely on the rookies to "see who pans out."

    OK, some teams do play the kids in order to see who pans out.  There is a name for teams that do that - October Spectators...
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    In Response to Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest:
    [QUOTE]You give the kids a chance in camp and ST. That's what you do. The idea is to bolster the competition for those roles in camp, not just pretend Doubront or Weiland can hold up and do it all year long. That's the flaw in the logic.  You're 4th and 5th starters are like your 3rd and 4th lines in hockey. Don';t underrate their value to a team and how it helps over a season and in the playoffs.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII[/QUOTE]

    A single starter can be the difference between first and last place.  The best team wins 60% of the time, the worst team wins 40% of the time.

    A 20% difference seperates the bottom from the top.  That's 1 win every 5 games. 

    The exact amount pitched by a single starting pitcher.

    So why do people want to turn one of these spots into a season long tryout?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    Yes, notin. A healthy 4th starter will get 32-33 starts a year... maybe one less than the ace. A 5th starter might get 30 if he is succesful and healthy. Those games are just as important as the 1-2-3 slot games. Having a quality 6/7 guy helps too.

    You are right notin, you were pretty much alone on the Buch thing in 2009. I was one who lost faith. I admit it. I remember reading a quote by Buch where he said something about losing his confidence, and I thought, "man, if this guy is saying this, he's toast." I was wrong, as were many others. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    In Response to Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest:
    [QUOTE]You give the job to the kids in camp and ST and sign 2 or 3 under 40 vets to minor league and 1 to 2 plus incentives deals as insurance. That's what you do. The idea is to invest time and patience in young pitchers and make them compete to get and retain MLB active roster spot, not pretend that Wastefield needs to be paid millions and hold up a couple of weeks. Just admit that you want Wastefield carted out in a wheelchair with a 5 or 6 ERA, just so you can say "that's my boy Timmy, 201 wins and counting and ignore the loss and grand slam he just gave up because he just broke Red Sox team total innings record) Bring back Yaz and don't pretend that Reddick or Kalish are ready yet.
    Posted by hankwilliams[/QUOTE]

    The important thing here is to emphasize the age.

    Because we all know the Red Soxwould have been a much better team last year with frequent hankwilliams recommendation Rich Harden and his 5.12 ERA instead of Tim Wakefield and his 5.12ERA.  And Harden 1.479 WHIP would have been a substantial improvement over Wakefield wimpy 1.358.

    After all, Harden is a strapping 29yo with the world in front of him.  So what if he hasn't thrown 100 innings in a season since 2009.  He's young!! And cheap, too.   He only made $1.5mill last year.  Of course, that doesn't count the money paid to the guy who pitched the 100 or so innings Harden couldn't.  And if you only look at one season, that is, because this guy cost $7mill as recently as 2010. 

    The Sox need to forget about who is pitching better!! Stop with those stats and things that prove how bad the other options are!! These guys are young and vibrant!! And that is what the Sox need.  The Sox need to invest in youth!!

    Not baseball!!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    ...and there are countless minor leaguers who can step in anytime and give us sub 5 ERAs, but they are all being held back by Wake.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    I'd say there's a 5-10% chance Wake is back here

    Id say there is a 100% chance that Wastefield will not be paid 3.75 million for another 5 plus era pile.

    And Notin, what is wrong with taking a chance on players under 45 years old who just didn't have the bad luck that Wastefield had or his ERA would have been about 3. No, finishing 3rd two years in a row requires a veteran like Wastefield be retained, as there are no young players capable of the quality innings eating from Red Sox largest beer gut veteran goofball thrower.

    I said not to trade Buch for Salty, as Moonslob wanted, back in 2009, as Varitek's 10 year backup. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    I'd say there's a 5-10% chance Wake is back here

    Id say there is a 100% chance that Wastefield will not be paid 3.75 million for another 5 plus era pile.

    I agree, even with incentives.

    And Notin, what is wrong with taking a chance on players under 45 years old who just didn't have the bad luck that Wastefield had or his ERA would have been about 3. No, finishing 3rd two years in a row requires a veteran like Wastefield be retained, as there are no young players capable of the quality innings eating from Red Sox largest beer gut veteran goofball thrower.

    I said not to trade Buch for Salty, as Moonslob wanted, back in 2009, as Varitek's 10 year backup. 

    What a complete lie. I never even wanted Salty...ever. You are confusing me with someone else...again.

    I was for the Buch, Masterson, and Lowrie for Santana deal (not Jake).
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    Don't forget Salty was one year removed from having throwing issues to the pitcher mound and being all but dropped from Texas' catching plans. I will give him credit as an offensive player, but as I've said many times, the two positions on the Sox that least need to be about offense and must be a Defense First postion are shortstop and catcher. The Sox have not felt that way.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    In Response to Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest:
    [QUOTE]Don't forget Salty was one year removed from having throwing issues to the pitcher mound and being all but dropped from Texas' catching plans. I will give him credit as an offensive player, but as I've said many times, the two positions on the Sox that least need to be about offense and must be a Defense First postion are shortstop and catcher. The Sox have not felt that way.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Not only he was one year removed from having throwing issues, he played on two different teams before he was traded to Boston.  When he played for these two different teams, that teams had like three different catchers on the roster where they all took turns.  Somehow Salty was the odd man out for most of the time due he didnt put up a good stats against the other two catchers.  Last year was his first year where he didnt have to get into too much competition at the catcher spot.  At the same time he improved alot.  Give him another year or two, and see if he can continue to improve.  Then if not, then try using Larvanway.  If he cant do it, I am sure there is another talent catcher down in the farm system that Boston can try to use him for the 2013 season.


     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    OK, you were one of the few who was against trading Buch when his trade value was fire sale. But I was one of the few who said abosulutely not to trade Buch for Santana, specifically citing Santana high mileage and high stress to elbow and shoulder delivery.

    I give you credit for admitting you wanted to trade a young talent for Santana. Remember 4 things when it comes to top tier pitchers on the market:

    1. Recent years mileage
    2. Age
    3. Technique, efficiency and tempo of delivery
    4. Market length of contract base

    Apply this, and Lackey was a 3 year and 30M max offer/ignore player. Apply this and you will see that there is no current value trade or FA market for top tier pitchers.  

    Red Sox have wasted time and money on old veterans like Wastefield, and have not invested time and exercised patience in bringing young farm talent up and down and up and down. Most young higher potential pitchers simply need MLB innings time to mature, go back to minors and work on exposed weaknesses, then get a few breaks after call-ups to establish the level of confidence needed to succeed as MLB starter. 

    Red Sox need extreme focus and attention to proper method and time investment in developing young pitchers on the farm. No excuse for not having established at least one bottom tier starters with 2nd full season sample ERA under 5. Inepstein was totally incompetent in most facets, and was not the architect of value and production. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    OK, you were one of the few who was against trading Buch when his trade value was fire sale. But I was one of the few who said abosulutely not to trade Buch for Santana, specifically citing Santana high mileage and high stress to elbow and shoulder delivery. 

    Yes, you were. I remember arguing against you for pages. Thanks for admitting you mistakenly linked me to the Buch-Salty deal.

    I give you credit for admitting you wanted to trade a young talent for Santana. Remember 4 things when it comes to top tier pitchers on the market:

    1. Recent years mileage
    2. Age
    3. Technique, efficiency and tempo of delivery
    4. Market length of contract base

    You got that one 100% right. I was wrong on many levels, but most importantly, I misjudged the salary implications and hiow they would have crippled us... much like CC's is now.

    Apply this, and Lackey was a 3 year and 30M max offer/ignore player. Apply this and you will see that there is no current value trade or FA market for top tier pitchers.  

    I know you thought it was more of an overpay than I. I have never disputed that. But, you did, upon finding out there was an injury clause in the contract, say at one point that you were "Ok with the contract, but it was a year too long". You have never admitted saying those exact words, even after I produced your direct quote. That's disingenuous and annoying.

    Red Sox have wasted time and money on old veterans like Wastefield, and have not invested time and exercised patience in bringing young farm talent up and down and up and down.

    You really think Weiland of Miller would have done better than 5.12 and 1.3 WHIP had they pitched 24 starts like Wake? Honestly? 

    You wanted Miller up in April, when he was extremely wild in AAA. Weiland was not ready... "showing patience" for him (to me) means he shouldn't have even been in Boston until at least 2012.

     Most young higher potential pitchers simply need MLB innings time to mature, go back to minors and work on exposed weaknesses, then get a few breaks after call-ups to establish the level of confidence needed to succeed as MLB starter. 

    Some yes, but most, I disagree. I do agree that it didn't help Weiland to sit in Boston on the bench as much as he did. My contention about replacing Wake, was that Wake actually did pretty good his first 10-12 starts (the period of Miller and Weiland's choices)...AND was doing better than Lackey (the real guy that could or should have been replaced).

    Red Sox need extreme focus and attention to proper method and time investment in developing young pitchers on the farm. No excuse for not having established at least one bottom tier starters with 2nd full season sample ERA under 5. Inepstein was totally incompetent in most facets, and was not the architect of value and production. 

    Again, since Buch and lester, we really haven't had any MLB ready starting pitchers worthy of starting on a competitive team like ours. I'm still not sure we will in 2012 either. Only Wilson seems mature enough, but I never hear him mentioned as a call up.  Miller has had ample chances to prove himself, go back to the minors and "work on things", but has the same old issues and the same exact numbers as before. Weiland never showed me anything. He was clearly an emergency call-up, not a chosen as ML ready starter.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    wake is about as relevent to the 2012 Red Sox season as is Francona...time to turn the page
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    If the RS don't sign him, I'd say it's very likely another team does. He still has second line ABILITY.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    In Response to Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest:
    [QUOTE]If the RS don't sign him, I'd say it's very likely another team does. He still has second line ABILITY.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    There were so many 5.50-6.00 + ERA pitchers who stuck around over the past few years, and many of them never had a stretch in their career like Wake had from 2007 to mid 2009. (That was only 2.5 to 5 years ago.)

    Yes, he's getting older, but the numbers he put up from 2007-mid 2009 were from ages 40-42. It's hard to apply old paradigms to his career curve.

    Someone will sign him to a MLB contract. My guess is for $1-1.5M with possible incentives.

     
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