Where are the Ellsbury Haters?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BertoSoxFan. Show BertoSoxFan's posts

    Where are the Ellsbury Haters?

    It seems the man is due some respect after all the trash fans were talking last year.  It's no fun being lame and listening to fans talk about your lack of desire.  He sure looks hungry to me out there these days.  Always did, even when he was leaping onto broken ribs. 

    And did anyone else hear Bobby Valentine on Sunday night bad-mouthing Youk's season so far.  He's sitting there with a 391 obp and a pile of clutch homers/hits, and Yahoos at ESPN think he's slumping.  They were lamenting his struggles seconds before he hit that game tying homer, which I know I've seen him do a few other times this year. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?

    HI!

    I'm one of them, though to say I hate the kid is harsh. He is playing very well right now, that was never my concern. I have maintained that he goes 100% at all times when on the field, never loafing or easing into anything.

    My problem with him, and this went back to 2008 was his unwillingness, or rather, his desire to not play if he was less than 100%. I questioned many times last year if he would ever figure that part out...

    Well, so far this year, he has. However, I still stand by my original sentiment which he is playing right in to: get him healthy and playing well, maximize trade value and trade him for comparable, though different parts.

    Yes, he's electric. He's fun to watch, there are many good things about him. I'm glad he is showing more toughness this year in playing through bumps and bruises...but, being that I've never seen it to date, I wonder what he'll look like as the season grinds along. When the mercury starts to reach towards 90...then July turns to August and September, will he be someone to rely on, or will he be someone like Drew, making Francona wonder if today will be the day he asks out of the lineup 2 hours before first pitch because of....you name it.

    The Kemp ship, if ever legit, has definitely sailed. I don't know how Rasmus is getting along with his teammates and Manager this year, but he's an option. For me, I'm not saying just run him out of town, I'm saying trade him for equal value, because he's done enough for me to question how long his toughness will last. If there isn't anyone wanting to do a fair swap, sure, keep him. If e plays 145+ games a year for the next 10 years he'll likely be a star. If he plays 120 games a year for the next 10 seasons, he's JD Drew, and I don't want another one of those "but when he's healthy..." type of players ever again.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?

    Oh, and Valentine? There's a reason he was jettisoned to Japan.

    Twice.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?

    Why trade a good player to get "someone of comparable value?"  He was terrific in 2007 and pretty darn good in 2009 when he led the team in hits and MLB in SB's.  This year two players and only two have played in every Sox game, and he is one of them.  Youk, Pedroia, Ortiz, Crawford, et al, have all had days off, but not Ellsbury or Gonzalez.   He is the only choice for the leadoff slot and is second behind Gonzalez in runs scored and tied for 3d on the team in rbi's. 
     
    Saying he won't play at less than 100% is a fabrication.  If anything, he has been too willing to play when hurt. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?

    He's really never shown you he'll play over 145 games?  145 games in 2008 (while being shielded from some lefties), 153 games in 2009.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Babe-Ted. Show Babe-Ted's posts

    Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?

    Who was that sports pschologist that was on NESN a few years back? Was it Tewksbury or something like that. Was he your source Max for such opinions or are you a fly on the wall in the clubhouse? Anyone can be speculative and fabricate things to suit their agenda. It requires more effort to do research and provide the forum with supporting articles and links. Maybe you are trying to out-Softlaw Softlaw and establish and / or feed your forum ego.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from majorleague. Show majorleague's posts

    Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?

    "Hate" is the DNC word for "won't agree with my taxpayer money and debt pandered for votes".

    That said, Ellsbury splits v. LHP are weak in 2011, and he continues to play the OF like he's worried about getting his first FA contract. The good news is that his career .340's OBP is now in the .350's, and let's hope that it doesn't fall like it always has in past years. He's a poor defensive CF'er, with no arm at all. He's a fast but not smart baserunner. His cost is relatively low because of the CBA years of service level. But, with Lowrie and Varitek and Salty, the Red Sox, as talented offensively and with 3 fine performing Starting pitchers as they are, are the worst defensive team in baseball, up the middle. Iglesias will soon take care of that problem at SS, and they should easily get a solid defensive catcher and take care of that problem at catcher. Trading Ellsbury this summer or next winter will allow someone like Kalish to improve the CF defense and net back a solid young RH corner OF'er. Kalish plays the game without any fear of his next contract. He's a keeper.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?

    In Response to Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?:
    [QUOTE]Why trade a good player to get "someone of comparable value?"  He was terrific in 2007 and pretty darn good in 2009 when he led the team in hits and MLB in SB's.  This year two players and only two have played in every Sox game, and he is one of them.  Youk, Pedroia, Ortiz, Crawford, et al, have all had days off, but not Ellsbury or Gonzalez.   He is the only choice for the leadoff slot and is second behind Gonzalez in runs scored and tied for 3d on the team in rbi's.    Saying he won't play at less than 100% is a fabrication.  If anything, he has been too willing to play when hurt. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    There's your fabrication, here's the proof:

    Terry Francona insisted he was not criticizing Jacoby Ellsbury, but his comments to the media about injuries and playing with pain were still a lot stronger than usual from the Red Sox manager.

    Tito:
    I'm not pointing a finger at Ellsbury because I think he's a pretty tough kid. I guess my point is you're not always going to be 100 percent. I don't know if we can wait for guys always to be 100 percent or we won't ever be able to field a team. ... We try to be protective, but at the same time, we want guys to understand the responsibility that every game here is really a big deal.

    OH yeah, that was 2008! Ok, how about last year:

    Terry Francona spoke with NESN's Heidi Watney prior to Thursday's game in Cleveland regarding the latest news on Jacoby Ellsbury's rib injury.

    Dr. Tom Gill and Dr. Lewis Yocum issued a statement on Thursday saying saying that "Jacoby will require several weeks of rest and physical therapy."

    "He can play when he tolerates what's going on," Francona said.

    And those several weeks turned into several months. That's my big question, what is he willing to tolerate? It had been commented that he sometimes needed a little extra motivation in the minors to go out and play at times as well. Last year is very debatable, but let's not go there, neither side can claim anything concretely based on last year, but his track record is what it is. Is he starting to change it this year? Absolutely, but don't be so deaf to the things his own Manager has said about him in the past. He DOES have something to prove when it comes to toughness before a game. During, he's a gamer, I've never said anything otherwise.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Roadrunner9234. Show Roadrunner9234's posts

    Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?

    In Response to Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?:
    [QUOTE]HI! I'm one of them, though to say I hate the kid is harsh. He is playing very well right now, that was never my concern. I have maintained that he goes 100% at all times when on the field, never loafing or easing into anything. My problem with him, and this went back to 2008 was his unwillingness, or rather, his desire to not play if he was less than 100%. I questioned many times last year if he would ever figure that part out... Well, so far this year, he has. However, I still stand by my original sentiment which he is playing right in to: get him healthy and playing well, maximize trade value and trade him for comparable, though different parts. Yes, he's electric. He's fun to watch, there are many good things about him. I'm glad he is showing more toughness this year in playing through bumps and bruises...but, being that I've never seen it to date, I wonder what he'll look like as the season grinds along. When the mercury starts to reach towards 90...then July turns to August and September, will he be someone to rely on, or will he be someone like Drew, making Francona wonder if today will be the day he asks out of the lineup 2 hours before first pitch because of....you name it. The Kemp ship, if ever legit, has definitely sailed. I don't know how Rasmus is getting along with his teammates and Manager this year, but he's an option. For me, I'm not saying just run him out of town, I'm saying trade him for equal value, because he's done enough for me to question how long his toughness will last. If there isn't anyone wanting to do a fair swap, sure, keep him. If e plays 145+ games a year for the next 10 years he'll likely be a star. If he plays 120 games a year for the next 10 seasons, he's JD Drew, and I don't want another one of those "but when he's healthy..." type of players ever again.
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]

    His main attribute is speed. You want him on the field or in the base paths at half-speed? I don't.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?

    In Response to Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?:
    [QUOTE]He's really never shown you he'll play over 145 games?  145 games in 2008 (while being shielded from some lefties), 153 games in 2009.
    Posted by JB-3[/QUOTE]Let's not confuse the issue with numbers when perception becomes reality. After all you can't count on Drew but Youk is a stud.

    The numbers would also get in the way. From 2007-2010 Drew appeared in 526 games - Youk 528 games. Drew in 2008 got to only play in 109, last year Youk 102.  So after injury Youk was good for a little less than 3 more games a season than Drew.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from majorleague. Show majorleague's posts

    Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?

    I want him in LA, for Matt Kemp. Can't always get what you want.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?

    In Response to Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters? : Let's not confuse the issue with numbers when perception becomes reality. After all you can't count on Drew but Youk is a stud. The numbers would also get in the way. From 2007-2010 Drew appeared in 526 games - Youk 528 games. Drew in 2008 got to only play in 109, last year Youk 102.  So after injury Youk was good for a little less than 3 more games a season than Drew.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    You do realize that represents Drew's healthiest 4 year stretch of his career, right? A TWELVE year career, at that. 12 years, 7 of which were 109 games or fewer. More than half his major league seasons, he played less than 66% of the time. Not nearly good enough.

    And I'm not aware of Youk ever going into Tito's office and telling him he can't go. Not the day before the game, not the morning of, not 2 hours before...all things Drew IS guilty of which make him unreliable. Youk has to be TOLD to take a day off.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?

    In Response to Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?:
    [QUOTE]I want him in LA, for Matt Kemp. Can't always get what you want.
    Posted by majorleague[/QUOTE]

    Kemp would look good playing center in fenway belting 25+ hr a year...But it would never happen..
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from StatsFromLouie. Show StatsFromLouie's posts

    Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?

    In Response to Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?:
    [QUOTE]"Hate" is the DNC word for "won't agree with my taxpayer money and debt pandered for votes". That said, Ellsbury splits v. LHP are weak in 2011, and he continues to play the OF like he's worried about getting his first FA contract. The good news is that his career .340's OBP is now in the .350's, and let's hope that it doesn't fall like it always has in past years. He's a poor defensive CF'er, with no arm at all. He's a fast but not smart baserunner. His cost is relatively low because of the CBA years of service level. But, with Lowrie and Varitek and Salty, the Red Sox, as talented offensively and with 3 fine performing Starting pitchers as they are, are the worst defensive team in baseball, up the middle. Iglesias will soon take care of that problem at SS, and they should easily get a solid defensive catcher and take care of that problem at catcher. Trading Ellsbury this summer or next winter will allow someone like Kalish to improve the CF defense and net back a solid young RH corner OF'er. Kalish plays the game without any fear of his next contract. He's a keeper.
    Posted by majorleague[/QUOTE]
    Kind of hard to play the game when you are on the AAA DL.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?

    Jacoby Ellsbury has been at least a competent centerfielder this season, as evidenced by his WAR* ranking among MLB centerfielders:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=cf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0

    * Wins Above Replacement as reported at FanGraphs
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?

    In Response to Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters? : Kemp would look good playing center in fenway belting 25+ hr a year...But it would never happen..
    Posted by southpaw777[/QUOTE]

    Although...MLB currently has control. Maybe send ol' Bud a little fruit basket, with a note outlining the benefits to the Brewers of getting Kemp out of the NL and...voila!

    I wanted the full court press last year when the Dodgers were puting out feelers. Ellsbury/Kelly was what I was thinking. Not that I'm disappointed what Kelly was dealt for.
     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from StatsFromLouie. Show StatsFromLouie's posts

    Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?

    In Response to Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?:
    [QUOTE]Jacoby Ellsbury has been at least a competent centerfielder this season, as evidenced by his WAR* ranking among MLB centerfielders: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=cf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0 * Wins Above Replacement as reported at FanGraphs
    Posted by hill55[/QUOTE]
    Competent is the most subjective word I have ever heard you say.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from majorleague. Show majorleague's posts

    Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?

    Bellsbury is a 3rd rate defensive CF'er, at best.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from canetime. Show canetime's posts

    Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?

    In Response to Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?:
    [QUOTE]"Hate" is the DNC word for "won't agree with my taxpayer money and debt pandered for votes". That said, Ellsbury splits v. LHP are weak in 2011, and he continues to play the OF like he's worried about getting his first FA contract. The good news is that his career .340's OBP is now in the .350's, and let's hope that it doesn't fall like it always has in past years. He's a poor defensive CF'er, with no arm at all. He's a fast but not smart baserunner. His cost is relatively low because of the CBA years of service level. But, with Lowrie and Varitek and Salty, the Red Sox, as talented offensively and with 3 fine performing Starting pitchers as they are, are the worst defensive team in baseball, up the middle. Iglesias will soon take care of that problem at SS, and they should easily get a solid defensive catcher and take care of that problem at catcher. Trading Ellsbury this summer or next winter will allow someone like Kalish to improve the CF defense and net back a solid young RH corner OF'er. Kalish plays the game without any fear of his next contract. He's a keeper.
    Posted by majorleague[/QUOTE]
    HERE IS YOUR HATER THE YANKEE TROLL.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from canetime. Show canetime's posts

    Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?

    In Response to Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?:
    [QUOTE]I want him in LA, for Matt Kemp. Can't always get what you want.
    Posted by majorleague[/QUOTE]

    we know know you want lugo and hall!the yankee troll!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from StatsFromLouie. Show StatsFromLouie's posts

    Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?

    In Response to Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?:
    [QUOTE]I want him in LA, for Matt Kemp. Can't always get what you want.
    Posted by majorleague[/QUOTE]
    I see you have an obsession with horrible defensive center fielders. Kemp has been the second worst defensive CF this season, and it's not even close.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from canetime. Show canetime's posts

    Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?

    In Response to Re: Where are the Ellsbury Haters?:
    [QUOTE]Bellsbury is a 3rd rate defensive CF'er, at best.
    Posted by majorleague[/QUOTE]

    you want the great crisp!is that right mr. TROLL!
     

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