Where should Ellsbury bat?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    In Response to Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?": Pathetic? No. I didn't say that, not at all. I'd say we got about 60% of what we paid for. Not as good as we'd like, but not "pathetic" either.
    Posted by TheExaminer[/QUOTE]

    OK because you said "YET" so I thought you agreed w/ me

    Never-the-less, I guess 60% is considered to be "NOT pathetic" then?

    I don't know about you but if I only got 60% value for the highest thing I ever invested in (Drew was the highest paid Sox for a # of years) then I would be in the streets.  So yeah, I guess I stand by my pathetic label.  Thanks.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    Sorry to crash the party, just wanted to wish you both a Happy and Healthy New Year. Now back to the regularly scheduled programSealedTongue Out
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    In response to "Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?": [QUOTE]Sorry to crash the party, just wanted to wish you both a happy and healthy New Year. now back to the regular scheduled program Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE] LOL....thanks J!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    In Response to Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?:
    [QUOTE]For whatever you may complain about Drew, he was very good defensively.
    Posted by TheExaminer[/QUOTE]

    And here we go.......The Nancy Boy lovers defense when the stats fail them......

    Let me present to you Exhibit A:

    In 2010, less then 2 men out, runner on 3rd.  Tie game.  Fly ball in foul ground.  And Drew catches the ball and thus, allows the winning run to score.  He should have let it drop.

    Exhibit B:

    Game 2 of the 2008 ALCS

    If we win this game we go to the WS mind you

    Runner on 3rd.  Tie Game on the road.

    Shallow Pop Up down the RF line.

    Does Drew time the catch to get momentum?

    Nope, he slowly drifts to the ball and makes a pathetic FLAT FOOTED throw and thus, game over.  I posted the video on this before.  Let me know if you want to see it again.

    Anyways, yeah Drew was OK defensively.  But that doesn't help Lupes out there in Left field now does it?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    In Response to Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?": Yeah. REALLY. What do you call a hitter that consistently bats before the number one hitter? Which is the way it would be after the first inning. You can call that stupid, but it's also true. IMO not enough attention is paid to the nine hole hitter in the AL.
    Posted by TheExaminer[/QUOTE]

    Wow did you not read what I wrote?  It's the NUMBER OF PLATE APPEARANCES!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    Why was this interesting OP dragged into the mire?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    In Response to Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?:
    [QUOTE]the problem with CC is that he has to hit .315, steal 60 bases, score 100 runs and hit 20 home runs just to remotely MAKE UP FOR 2011's debacle. My opinion of his defense isn't far off from andymitch. He is a terrible fit for Sox now, then, 2 years ago, 2 years from now. Epstein left the franchise paying for this very sensitive, deer-in-headlights OF for a long time for a lot of cash.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    IMO Theo really got away with murder on this one. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    Thanks!  Now can I get back to this thread?

    I mean, seriously, Lupes batting first or second BEFORE EVEN SEEING WHAT HE DOES IN ST is tatamount to throwing away the season. 

    Why not make Jenks the closer while you are at it?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    I hope you are just playing around b/c you are really starting to scare me.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    Assuming Ellsbury in 2012 is near his 2011 performance he could bat in several places successfully.

    6-9 are out of the question given his assumed performance, right?  Agon seems an ideal 3 to me, and 5 seems silly given that we'd guarantee to reduce Ellsbury's PAs so drastically from 2011.  So that leaves 1, 2 or 4. 

    Pedroia will get on base more, Ellsbury runs better, Ellsbury has more power, Pedroia a bit more bat control, Ellsbury a better hitter so should get more PAs.  They seem largely interchangeable at 1/2, so I'd ask each of them what they preferred and leave it at that unless....

    Re 4, the loss of PAs still applies....and if Ellsbury is moved to 4, whither Youk and Papi?  Moving either to 1/2 is obviously absurd, and promoting anyone else to 1/2 - and there are no likely candidates based on 2011 performance - means we lose at 1/2 and lose PAs from both Youk and Papi.

    So I'd stick to observing/asking Ells/Pedey what they prefer and go from there.


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    Sox Lineup:
    Ellsbury
    Pedroia
    AGonzalez
    Ortiz
    Youkilis
    I'm ill
    No Really I am
    Not feeling the best
    Please take me to the ER
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    In Response to Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?": Most likely. But I'm not averse to looking at Ellsbury in the three hole, I thought it was fun to talk about at least until andrewmitch showed up. Lol
    Posted by TheExaminer[/QUOTE]

    The first interesting post over the holiday season, and who parachutes in?  D.B. Cooper.

    Great.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    30 million for 2 superstars like Ellsbury and Crawford is a bargain. 3rd place should be easy to top, in 2012.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    In Response to Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?:
    [QUOTE]30 million for 2 superstars like Ellsbury and Crawford is a bargain. 3rd place should be easy to top, in 2012.
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr[/QUOTE]

    [A rally to raise awareness to eliminate Tourette Syndrome]:  "What do we want?" "A cure for Tourette Syndrome!"  "When do we want it?" "CNUTS!"

    The Hanks, Wnaks, Geos, Softys, ad nauseum aren't completely witless, and if they tried could be interesting and engaging. Why don't they?

    Of course, the worst current poster....who's "protecting us" from the "trolls"....will give his predictable, boring and patronising answer......

    ....but why do these obviously witful people endlessly repeat the same opinions?  I can imagine a few reasons, but would one of the Geohanksofty crew be willing to explain why they persist in endlessly repeating the same opinions?

    Seriously, why?


     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxRuleTheRoost. Show SoxRuleTheRoost's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    Leave Ells at LO. If sox 8 & 9 are Scoot and Sweeney, both have good OBP and Ells will have plenty of oppurtunity to knock them in. He gets the most at bats, will score a ton and still knock in a lot. Plus Pedey & Agone get good at bats with distracted pitchers with Ells on first or second.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    Ellsbury needs to leadoff again because he thrived on it this year, because no one else has been able to lead off-certainly not Carl Crawford--and because AGon is the right guy for the 3 slot.  The OP is way off base. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    I could see him hitting third at some point, but the way the Sox lineup is right now, I think it would be best to keep him at leadoff.  One thing I would like to see more of this year is the hit and run. With Ells on first and Pedey at bat, it is an ideal play. Was not done enough last year. Also , AGon hit into too many DPs with Ells and/or Pedey on base. I'm not a big fan of " small ball " , but the hit and run would have avoided a lot of ground ball DPs.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    In Response to Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?": Agreed. The Sox made very little use of their speed last year.
    Posted by TheExaminer[/QUOTE]
    The reason that Terry did not call the hit and run more often with Gonzalez at the plate was to allow Adrian to select the pitch to swing at. His job was to drive in runs not protect the baserunners.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    I am not sure in what order but the top 3 should be Ellsbury Pedroia and Crawford. Crawford is the classic try too type of guy, give him his old spot back and tell him to relax and he should be fine.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    Why on Earth would you move Ellesbury? Did Henderson get moved because he had some pop? If Elles was moved than we would fill the forum about how we need a lead-off hitter.

    I think Crawford needs to bat 9th even if he hits well. Look at his career numbers they are honestly not all that great. I have to wonder if the Clubhouse Manager issued Carl cement cleats as he could not steal a base last year either. No catchy bally, no hittie bally, and no runnie wunnie.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    Crawford may have batted 2nd in Tampa but that is totally different.  Does Tampa have Ortiz, AGone, Youk, Ellsbury, Pedey?

    His career OBP is still .350 at best.  And that is on average.  

    His career OBP is .333, but he did have 2 years at about .360 before signing here.

    You do realize that old Carl did not bat 2nd versus Lefties, right?  He batted 7th or 8th and still on a team that did not feature Ortiz, AGone, Youk, Ellsbury or Pedey.  

    2010:
    2nd: 451 PAs
    3rd:  206 PAs
    Others: 0 PAs

    2009:
    2nd: 668 PAs
    Others: 4 PAs

    2008:
    2nd: 380 PAs
    3rd:   90 PAs
    Others: 2 PAs

    2007: 
    1st:   31
    2nd: 273
    3rd: 317
    Others: 3

    2006:
    1st:   96
    2nd: 380
    3rd: 176
    Others: 0

    2005:
    1st: 358
    2nd: 272
    3rd:   55
    Others: 2

    2004:
    1st:  658
    2nd:  6
    Others: 8

    2003:
    1st:  536
    2nd:   32
    8th:    33
    9th:    59

    2002:
    1st:   16
    2nd: 189
    8th:   9
    9th:  64


    Even if he bounces back what do you think a realistic OBP for him would be?   .333 would be a nice bounce back.  And still that is like 7th vs RHSP's and 9th vs LHSP's.

    His career OBP:
    vs RHPs: .343
    vs LHPs: .308 (DMac's is .348 and he's not a bad fielder in LF)

    Crawford should bat 6th, 7th, 8th or 9th vs RHPs (maybe 6th most of the time vs RHPs), and should be on the bench vs most LHPs.

    It is absurb to even consider batting Crawford anywhere above 7th at this point in time.  If he tears the cover off the ball in ST then OK you could mention it.  But for now, I suggest all Crawford lovers, like DJ lovers, LAY LOW!!!!!!
    (Andrewmitch)

    vs RHPs, Crawford' line is .306/.343/.468/.812

    I can see batting Jacoby, Pedey, AGon, Youk, and Papi ahead of Crawford for sure, but that is only 5. Who should bat 6th ahead of CC?

    Salty?        .265/.331/.441/.772  (.786 in 2011)
    Sweeney? .296/.352/.402/.754 (.743 in 2011)
    Scutty?      .273/.337/.385/.722 (.784 in 2011)

    In 2011, CC batted 6th more than anyone else:
    Cc        196
    Lowrie 134
    Drew    124
    Redd     49
    Salty     41
    DMac     34
    Cam      30

    He also batted 7th more than anyone else:
    CC    141
    Salty 105
    Lowrie 94
    Redd   74
    Scut    69
    Drew  47
    VTek  36
    Cam   34

     
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    Look at the # of annual PA's for a lead off hitter vs a #9 hitter. 

    Last year (I can say that now), our 1 slot got 138 more PAs than our 9 slot.

    I'd say that is very significant.

    Our 1 slot also got 40 more than our 3 slot, so moving Jacoby from 1 to 3 may give him about 40 less PAs in 2012.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    Here's my preliminary line-ups before any adjustments according to who is pitching:

    (I won't count Lava or Iggy, but I'd have them playing the majority of 2012 games at C and SS respectively)

    vs RHPs:
    1) Ells
    2) Ped
    3) AGon
    4) Papi
    5) Youk
    6) Craw
    7) Sween
    8) Salty
    9) Scut

    vs LHPs
    1) Ells
    2) Ped
    3) Youk
    4) AGon
    5) Papi (if he keeps up close to his 2011 splits)
    6) Aviles (RF)-- (I'd rather have Lava here)
    7) DMac  (LF)
    8) Shopp
    9) Scut
    (If CC has good splits vs a particular RHP, I'd bat him 9th and let the better of DMac or Aviles play RF that game. Scutty 8th. Shopp 7th)


     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    I think are pretty much in agreement on the points except that I know Crawford was moved out of the top 4 spots by Madden.  I had seen the games and I recall the announcers talking about it.  Crawford was moved to the 5-hole when Upton was hitting well in 2008 and I know against tough lefties he was batting below the top 5, 7th I think.  I saw the games so I don't know where you got those stats.  Perhaps it wasn't as often as I believe but I know it was happening.  Regardless, we both agree (and the stats support it) he is terrible vs LH's.......Bottom Line - I'll agree to bat him 6th vs RH's if he's benched versus LH's.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    In Response to Where should Ellsbury bat?:
    [QUOTE]DISCLAIMER: I went through and deleted every post I put in this thread but my thanks to jbay because I'm so UTTERLY SICK of the vitriol directed at Carl Crawford, and I'm equally sick of posters not completely reading what I said in the OP below, and reacting half cocked. Nowhere do I say that Ellsbury SHOULD be moved, it was only a friendly discussion, and I'm heartily sorry that I brought it up. Andrewmitch? You have got some serious issues my man, and I think you need therapy. And all you guys saying Crawford should be batting ninth but NEVER first don't seem to realize that the batting order does not end with number nine, and that one bats behind nine. In other words, he'd be batting in front of Ellsbury three or four times a game. Go figure. If you're going to pour out bile, at least be consistent about it and bat him seventh. First, Softy, I'm assuming he's going to be here next year, so stay away. Where should he bat? I still lean toward leadoff, but if he continues to show the power, would third or fourth be an option? This has some appeal against RH pitchers. Having Gonzalez behind him or vice versa could be interesting. That would free Crawford up for one or two, if he could handle it. Part of this includes the idea that Crawford will rebound, andrewmitch, and I think he will.
    Posted by TheExaminer[/QUOTE]

    Now that's some bile there........

    At least I am glad to know that you were "half-cocked" when trying to believe that batting 9th and lead off is virtually the same thing.  Unless you think that giving your best hitter over 100 more PA's per year more than your worst hitter is not significant?

    In addition, several posters answered your most reasonable and interesting question with sound logic.

    I wasn't offened by any of your posts but in all honestly and no-offense here, but your new disclaimer is jibberish. 

    No hard feelings though.
     

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