Whither Salty?

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Whither Salty?

    In response to MustangBri's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Two words:

    No McCann

     

    He will cost almost twice as much as Salty and bring us little better.



    Really Moon?

    5 Silver Slugger Awards, and 7 AllStar Games says otherwise.

    McCann has never KO'd 100 times on a season in his career.

    Can Salty match that, or have even 1 of those nominations on his resume?

    Give him 6/100 and he can transition to 1B or DH in years 4-6 when he is still only 34/35.



    Yes, really.

    K's are over-rated.

    His defense is no better than Salty's and his CS% is just 1% better than Salty's career number.

    6/100 is insane.

    His .823 career OPS is less than 20 points higher than Salty's 2013 season.

    Salty has been improving- McCann has been declining.

    I'm not saying Salty is better than McCann, but Salty at $36M/3 is a steal when compared to McCann at $100M/6.

    Salty has a better WAR this year (3.6 to 2.7).

    Out of the 19 MLB catchers with 800+ PAs in 2012 to 2013, Salty ranks 12th in WAR at 5.4 while McCann ranks 14th at 4.5. I don't pay any catcher ranked 14th out of 19 that much money.

    2012-2013:

    Salty     .248/.314/.460/.774

    McCann .242/.316/.426/.743

    2011-2013:

    Salty       .244/.306/.457/.763

    McCann  .252/.329/.441/.770

     

    Certainly the McCann of 2008 or even 2008 to 2010 was much better than any large sample size of Salty. Nobody knows if 2013 was a fluke for Salty or if McCann will return to the glory of 2008, but I just do not see a wide disparity between the two catchers at this point in their careers. Not 3 more years at $64M more worth- for sure.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Whither Salty?

    In response to MustangBri's comment:

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    We won the WS with Ross as the catcher.  Why do we need to "upgrade" at that position?  I want a glove there.  For years I wanted G Laird; so someone like him.  Ross was really the "10th Player Award" winner of the post season.  That's the kind of guy I want catching for me.



    Because Ross is not a full time catcher... never was.  Did you not notice his grey beard?  He is no spring chicken.  I want Ross to stay... but he can't play 120 games.  50-60 maybe.  

    Salty KO's way too much, and defensively he is sub-par.

    If we don't get McCann, the Yankees will.



    The Yanks will not overpay for McCann.

    Ross can play more than 60, but probably not much more than 90 or 100. We can get a bridge catcher to carry us to our nice catching prospects:

    Vazquez, Swihart and Denny with Lava still in the picture to some extent.

     

    McCann does not have the offensive numbers to support that salary at 1B or DH as he ages. Maybe not having to catch might improve his offense, but I want to see it before I pay for it.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Whither Salty?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to MustangBri's comment:

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    We won the WS with Ross as the catcher.  Why do we need to "upgrade" at that position?  I want a glove there.  For years I wanted G Laird; so someone like him.  Ross was really the "10th Player Award" winner of the post season.  That's the kind of guy I want catching for me.



    Because Ross is not a full time catcher... never was.  Did you not notice his grey beard?  He is no spring chicken.  I want Ross to stay... but he can't play 120 games.  50-60 maybe.  

    Salty KO's way too much, and defensively he is sub-par.

    If we don't get McCann, the Yankees will.



    The Yanks will not overpay for McCann.

    Ross can play more than 60, but probably not much more than 90 or 100. We can get a bridge catcher to carry us to our nice catching prospects:

    Vazquez, Swihart and Denny with Lava still in the picture to some extent.

     

    McCann does not have the offensive numbers to support that salary at 1B or DH as he ages. Maybe not having to catch might improve his offense, but I want to see it before I pay for it.




    And I don't have a problem w/ keeping Salty.  But I am trying to keep the Avg Annual Salary to $7.5 million; that's what I have budgeted for that slot.  I think he would bite on a 3/22.5 deal but that's the most I go.  If I lose Nap and Drew then I can increase the pay and go "QO" on him....I either have a catcher but for only 1 year or I get my draft pick then I take my $7.5 million and find a nice compliment to Ross....

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from MustangBri. Show MustangBri's posts

    Re: Whither Salty?

    Ells is going to get Carl Crawford $$+++.  That will not be 6/100 as I am projecting/offering McCann.  A solid top tier catcher in the AL is a big advantage.  A CF.... a bit easier to replace...

    Heck, we already have 2 potential replacements.  Victorino, and JBJ. 

    No way, no how do the Sox give Ellsbury more money & years than Pedie.  Not happening.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Whither Salty?

    Let him go.  Please.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ergoetal. Show Ergoetal's posts

    Re: Whither Salty?

    In response to LagunaJose's comment:

    Is "Whither" an old testament word or old English from a century ago?



    I have no idea. But thanks for the good discussion, guys, and pardon me for forgetting Salty is a FA in 2014.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Whither Salty?

    In response to MustangBri's comment:

    Ells is going to get Carl Crawford $$+++.  That will not be 6/100 as I am projecting/offering McCann.  A solid top tier catcher in the AL is a big advantage.  A CF.... a bit easier to replace...

    Heck, we already have 2 potential replacements.  Victorino, and JBJ. 

    No way, no how do the Sox give Ellsbury more money & years than Pedie.  Not happening.



    You give him the same total of 110 but for 6 years........if some gives him Crawford money then I let him walk; but that doesn't give me an excuse to go out and over pay for a catcher - where's the logic in that......

    And those are not replacements.  Ellsbury not only plays CF - WELL - but he's also your lead off hitter......JBJ a lead off hitter?  Come on.  And Vic moving there makes the rest of the line up weaker too........

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Whither Salty?

    In response to Ergoetal's comment:

    In response to LagunaJose's comment:

    Is "Whither" an old testament word or old English from a century ago?



    I have no idea. But thanks for the good discussion, guys, and pardon me for forgetting Salty is a FA in 2014.




    it's ok - you started a good thread none the less

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Whither Salty?

    And I don't have a problem w/ keeping Salty.  But I am trying to keep the Avg Annual Salary to $7.5 million; that's what I have budgeted for that slot.  I think he would bite on a 3/22.5 deal but that's the most I go.  If I lose Nap and Drew then I can increase the pay and go "QO" on him....I either have a catcher but for only 1 year or I get my draft pick then I take my $7.5 million and find a nice compliment to Ross....

    This is Salty's one chance for the big bucks. I think he can get at least $27M/3 on the open market and maybe $36M/3 or $44M/4 from someone.

    There were 5 MLB teams with a catcher OPS of under .585. Even if Salty declines to .730 to .785, he's still 200 points better than 5 teams! There's 16 teams with a catcher OPS of below .700. Someone will fork over more than $7.5M for Salty.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from MustangBri. Show MustangBri's posts

    Re: Whither Salty?

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    In response to MustangBri's comment:

    Ells is going to get Carl Crawford $$+++.  That will not be 6/100 as I am projecting/offering McCann.  A solid top tier catcher in the AL is a big advantage.  A CF.... a bit easier to replace...

    Heck, we already have 2 potential replacements.  Victorino, and JBJ. 

    No way, no how do the Sox give Ellsbury more money & years than Pedie.  Not happening.



    You give him the same total of 110 but for 6 years........if some gives him Crawford money then I let him walk; but that doesn't give me an excuse to go out and over pay for a catcher - where's the logic in that......

    And those are not replacements.  Ellsbury not only plays CF - WELL - but he's also your lead off hitter......JBJ a lead off hitter?  Come on.  And Vic moving there makes the rest of the line up weaker too........



    No one can replace Ells at LO and defensively that is available.  Choo is close, but not Ells either.  

    But, you strengthen at another posiition to make up for your loss.  Catcher is that available position in FA this year that is lacking in the AL.

    Anyway... I have said enuff on this subject.  And typing all this using my cell phone is getting difficult after all these late nites watching our...

    2013 World Champion Boston Red Sox!!!

    Nite folks...I had fun.  Peace.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Whither Salty?

    Here's a good breakdown on Salty's value, they peg him as worth about $36M/4.

     

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/10/free-agent-profile-jarrod-saltalamacchia.html

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcherbrook. Show Fletcherbrook's posts

    Re: Whither Salty?

    In response to MustangBri's comment:

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    In response to MustangBri's comment:

     

    2 words:

     

    Brian McCann.

     




    Only if you lose Ellsbury.  Can't afford both........and Jake is much more valuable; especially on the current club.

     



    Ellsbury is a gonner.  He will get 7/120 from somebody(I say SF).  It's JBJ time in CF.  McCann is also only 29, and plays a position that is very sought after, but hard to find a player of his calibur.  He could transition to DH or 1B in the latter years very easily.  His cost should be about 6/100.  

    I like it.



    Nothing nothing nothing over 2,3,4 year deals . Except for top level elite talent go 5. Generation player go 6-7.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Whither Salty?

    Nothing nothing nothing over 2,3,4 year deals . Except for top level elite talent go 5. Generation player go 6-7.

    ...and Ellsbury is not top elite.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Whither Salty?

    In response to MustangBri's comment:

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    In response to MustangBri's comment:

     

    2 words:

     

    Brian McCann.

     




    Only if you lose Ellsbury.  Can't afford both........and Jake is much more valuable; especially on the current club.

     



    Ellsbury is a gonner.  He will get 7/120 from somebody(I say SF).  It's JBJ time in CF.  McCann is also only 29, and plays a position that is very sought after, but hard to find a player of his calibur.  He could transition to DH or 1B in the latter years very easily.  His cost should be about 6/100.  

    I like it.




    McCann isnt that great defensively. His actually about the same as Salty as far as stats go, other than his offense, which has only been slightly better overall. Salty has even closed that offensive gap the last couple years. I dont think McCann will be worth what hes expected to get. If hes not within 2M of Salty per year its too much. Salty should be around 9-11Mper

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Whither Salty?

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to MustangBri's comment:

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    In response to MustangBri's comment:

     

    2 words:

     

    Brian McCann.

     




    Only if you lose Ellsbury.  Can't afford both........and Jake is much more valuable; especially on the current club.

     



    Ellsbury is a gonner.  He will get 7/120 from somebody(I say SF).  It's JBJ time in CF.  McCann is also only 29, and plays a position that is very sought after, but hard to find a player of his calibur.  He could transition to DH or 1B in the latter years very easily.  His cost should be about 6/100.  

    I like it.




    McCann isnt that great defensively. His actually about the same as Salty as far as stats go, other than his offense, which is clearly better. I dont think he will be worth what hes expected to get.



    Agreed. McCan is better than Salty, but not enough to spend big. Besides, we have many good catching prospects on the rise, and McCann does not have the hitting profile to take Papi's slot at DH when Papi retires.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Whither Salty?

    Salty stated that he would like to come back, but now he probably have realized that Ross have been playing much better than him defensively since Ross felt 100 % coming off of DL.  AT the same time Salty know that there are going to be few teams that is going to pay him twice more than Boston could offer him (maybe not twice, maybe triple).  He knows that.  He never made more than 4.5mm dollars a year in his life.

    Since he will be 29 years of age next year, he isnt going to be too stupid to turn down good deals from another teams to go back to Boston by signing a discount deal.

    That is why I have stated that Salty is gone for good!!  I ll be shock to see Salty just resign with Boston for a whole alot lesser money!!

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Whither Salty?

    In response to GoUconn13's comment:

    Salty stated that he would like to come back, but now he probably have realized that Ross have been playing much better than him defensively since Ross felt 100 % coming off of DL.  AT the same time Salty know that there are going to be few teams that is going to pay him twice more than Boston could offer him (maybe not twice, maybe triple).  He knows that.  He never made more than 4.5mm dollars a year in his life.

    Since he will be 29 years of age next year, he isnt going to be too stupid to turn down good deals from another teams to go back to Boston by signing a discount deal.

    That is why I have stated that Salty is gone for good!!  I ll be shock to see Salty just resign with Boston for a whole alot lesser money!!



    We can and might offer him more than other clubs, but just not longer term.

    I agree. He probably will walk.

    I'd probably give him a 1 year QO, which is an overpay, but Salty would make a nice bridge to Vazquez or Swihart, and if he walks, we get a highly desired draft pick.

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from slakrking. Show slakrking's posts

    Re: Whither Salty?


    I'd give him 3/27 or 4/32 nice raises, close to actual value. The relationship with our pitchers makes him a good value for us.

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Whither Salty?

    In response to soxnewmex's comment:

    Let him go.  Please.

    B I N G O, THAT !!!!


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Whither Salty?

    This whole idea that Ross can suddenly become a starter and catch close to 100 games in his late 30 is frankly rediculous. He has never had more then 320 abs in his entire career. If you caught him everyday his bat will get overexposed and he will slump as well as possibly get injured. David Ross is fantastic backup catcher, key word being backup. 

     
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