Who consructed this disaster? Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxu571. Show redsoxu571's posts

    Re: Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!

    In Response to Re: Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!:
    In Response to Re: Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History! : Thank you. All of the fans who think they know the Red Sox and the press always point out the "2nd in runs, blah blah blah" argument, but the bottom is this: 1. Against good pitching, they perform like rag dolls. 2. Take away the occasional 10, 14, 17 run games against bad pitching and they are really an ineffective hitting team. I would much rather see the following in our lineup and roster: 1. Get rid of Thomas. This team DOES NOT need 13 pitchers. I'm guessing they are the only team in baseball doing so. 2. Bring up Lavarnway. He's not hitting in AAA, but who cares. Shoppach can't hit.  3. Bring up either Repko or that Ciac?? guy for a 4th bench player. 4. As I brought up in another thread, put Youk on DL and bring up Middlebrooks. Any fan with baseball knowledge would rather see Middlebrooks and Lavarnway than Youk and Shoppach. The FO is worried about selling tickets, but with this aging team, they won't be selling any. If this homestand (TB, NY, Texas) is ugly, the team will be 8 games behind the Rays by May 1.
    Posted by ADG


    So let me get this straight: you counter what you judge as a oversimplified, anecdotal argument ("2nd in runs, blah blah blah") with...two anecdotes?

    Sir, you condescend towards people who you claim "think they know the Red Sox", but I guarantee I understand both the Red Sox, and the sport of baseball, better than you do.

    Ignorant baseball fans think the best lineups magically get clutch hits every time runners are in scoring position, and always grind it out against tough pitchers. OF COURSE the Red Sox lineup struggles more against better pitchers than lesser pitchers...that's true of ANY lineup. And why don't you actually give some EVIDENCE that the reason the Red Sox score a lot of runs is only because of explosions against poor pitching?

    I bet if you looked up the median for runs scores by the Red Sox last year, it would be higher than that of most or all other teams...

    Meanwhile, Bill James proved years ago that winning ballgames comes down to two things: scoring runs, and preventing runs. The more runs a lineup scores, the better the team will do...period, end of story. Though some teams can be built around using strategy a tad more to grind against tougher pitching, in the end any single game will be decided far more by random factors than by talent...that's why we play 162 games, and 7 game playoff series! The bigger the sample, the more the true ability of a team shows itself.

    The Red Sox have a great lineup, and it's NOT because they score gobs of runs against poor pitching. It's because most Red Sox hitters take pitches, work the count, take walks, have some type of power in their game, etc etc etc. To call the Red Sox an "ineffective hitting team" might be the dumbest things I've ever heard...and I saw "An Inconvenient Truth"!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxu571. Show redsoxu571's posts

    Re: Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!

    In Response to Re: Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!:
    Bingo! Justin Upton has been shopped, and has a contract that balloons. While we all know that Ellsbury will be much weaker in a weaker lineup, if the DBacks are floundering this summer, Ellsbury and blocked prospects (3 team deal if needed) might get the job done. The point is that this winter was a GM fiasco, which is par for the Inepstein course. Crawford and Ellsbury at 30 million a year is truly pitiful. And to the guys who quotes total runs for a season, read the other poster's articulate comment on precisely why the Red Sos are not a strong offensive team.
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr


    Justin Upton? Try again.

    Suggesting a trade for Upton shows how ungrounded your desires are in reality. He is not available, at least not for 2012. Let me recount his recent trade rumor history so you understand why this is:

    -Arizona drops to 92 losses and last place in 2009, a disappointment after a growth year in 2008.

    -That same offseason, Upton signs a very reasonable 6 year extention that buys out two free agency seasons.

    -After Arizona's 97 loss, last place finish in 2010, the team was looking for answers, and word came out that Upton was at least available for the right trade. Mind you, he was not "on the block"...he was "possibly available".

    -No actual trade talks are ever cited regarding Upton, and there is nothing beyond open speculation regarding the trade cost for the player. Trade discussions die out by the end of the offseason.

    -Arizona rebounds to 94 wins and a division title, and enter 2012 with similar expectations (they are off to a 4-0 start). Upton is the centerpiece of the team's lineup, and is never slated under his current deal to crack a $15M salary. Over the winter, there were essentially no rumors regarding his trade status.

    Justin Upton is not coming to Boston anytime soon. Arizona can afford a $15M a year player...they've had payrolls in the $80M range before, and another successful season will likely see a rise in attendence. Why would they deal their biggest star for a similar OFer who will cost a similar salary the next couple of years (Ellsbury is actually more expensive already than Upton) AND be guaranteed to hit free agency sooner? Because you want them to? You sound like a typical Yankee fan...always looking to make the Red Sox better without any regard for how the other team would feel about the deals you propose. I hope you don't play fantasy baseball, because if you do, everyone else in your league must hate the trade offers you make.

    P.S. Way to pat the other poster on the back for his "articulate" post about the strength of the Red Sox offense. You do realize that the strength of an argument stems from the relevancy of its evidence and not the quality of its prose, do you not? And an argument based on anecdotal evidence is NOT a cogent one.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!

    In Response to Re: Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!:
    Take a look at the number of months and number of times the 2011 Red Sox were unable to score more than 3 runs in games, and 4 runs in games. Aggregate season long numbers don't reflect the repeating syndrome that you saw today.
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr

    Yeah who cares about season long numbers when you can go with a 6 game sample?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Who consructed this disaster? Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!

    On paper, signing Crawford wasn't bad.  Ellsbury was a question mark and the 09 season was any indicator, he needed to be moved.  Crawford was seen as having the same tools as Ellsbury but with more maturity.  

    I think they had intended to trade Ellsbury because you don't need both Ellsbury and Crawford on the team.

    But, Crawford has under performed, to say the least, and Ellsbury has been a standout.

    However, I think they still trade Ellsbury because they still have the same needs they intended to fill by trading Ellsbury.  Crawford doesn't hae the same trade value even if the Sox were willing to eat the contract. 

    And I don't think the Crawford signing was Theo's idea.  I think it was Lucchino's.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!

    In Response to Re: Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!:
    In Response to Re: Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History! : Justin Upton? Try again. Suggesting a trade for Upton shows how ungrounded your desires are in reality. He is not available, at least not for 2012. Let me recount his recent trade rumor history so you understand why this is: -Arizona drops to 92 losses and last place in 2009, a disappointment after a growth year in 2008. -That same offseason, Upton signs a very reasonable 6 year extention that buys out two free agency seasons. -After Arizona's 97 loss, last place finish in 2010, the team was looking for answers, and word came out that Upton was at least available for the right trade. Mind you, he was not "on the block"...he was "possibly available". -No actual trade talks are ever cited regarding Upton, and there is nothing beyond open speculation regarding the trade cost for the player. Trade discussions die out by the end of the offseason. -Arizona rebounds to 94 wins and a division title, and enter 2012 with similar expectations (they are off to a 4-0 start). Upton is the centerpiece of the team's lineup, and is never slated under his current deal to crack a $15M salary. Over the winter, there were essentially no rumors regarding his trade status. Justin Upton is not coming to Boston anytime soon. Arizona can afford a $15M a year player...they've had payrolls in the $80M range before, and another successful season will likely see a rise in attendence. Why would they deal their biggest star for a similar OFer who will cost a similar salary the next couple of years (Ellsbury is actually more expensive already than Upton) AND be guaranteed to hit free agency sooner? Because you want them to? You sound like a typical Yankee fan...always looking to make the Red Sox better without any regard for how the other team would feel about the deals you propose. I hope you don't play fantasy baseball, because if you do, everyone else in your league must hate the trade offers you make. P.S. Way to pat the other poster on the back for his "articulate" post about the strength of the Red Sox offense. You do realize that the strength of an argument stems from the relevancy of its evidence and not the quality of its prose, do you not? And an argument based on anecdotal evidence is NOT a cogent one.
    Posted by redsoxu571

    Good points ... not to mention that Justin Upton is four years younger than Jacoby Ellsbury.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: Who consructed this disaster? Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!

    The FO did little to fix isuues in the off season but pickup throwaways and injured guys looking to make a come back. Tampa owns them and I do not think it is going to get better. VMart or Beltre should have been resigned, Saltamachia is awful, another Boy Genus pickup. Youkillis looks awful and I am hoping its not the aftermath of PEDS. David Ortiz does not look too good either, at least they fid not sign him to a two year deal. The pitching staff has too many question marks and they weakened one area, the bullpen to strengthen the starting pitching with Daniel Bard. This looks like its going to be a long year.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from RS75. Show RS75's posts

    Re: Who consructed this disaster? Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!

    How soon do we see Lava and Middlebrooks?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from isurfvb24. Show isurfvb24's posts

    Re: Who consructed this disaster? Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!

    yup lets trade the "real" al mvp. that makes alot of sense. theo created this disaster and he knew his hands were tied with the mistakes he made signing crawford and jenks to big time deals. he ran to the cubs because he knows this team is financially in trouble. lets not forget all the money he gave beckett and youk too. both those guys are declining and not worth anything close to the money they recieved. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Who consructed this disaster? Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!

    Sox are in a bind , no matter how you look at it. I don't see any quick fix here. Sure , we could use a great right handed hitter , but I don't see the Dodgers parting with Kemp. Not so sure that Upton is an upgrade over Ellsbury.  Who else is out there?  I don't think guys like Iglesias, Lavarnway and Middlebrooks can be considered blocked prospects. They all seem to be important pieces in our future. Who else do we have on the farm that has any trade value ? Teams that are not going to be able to re-sign Ellsbury are not going to give up much to get him for a year and a half.  It's just a bad situation.  The Sox have to find a way to shed some payroll to be able to sign a right handed bat , while trying to upgrade the farm system. We have got to develop some young talent.  A number of bad contracts have caused a big problem. It will take time to get it all straightened out.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!

    In Response to Re: Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!:
    It's funny - this time last year, all of the posts were about how Francona screwed up Spring Training.  Maybe if Youkilis had had more ST ABs than Jason Repko, our offense would be in better shape right now.
    Posted by slomag


    You are right.  Last year the Red Sox didn't play very well during spring training. This year spring training was much more successful, but the Red Sox currently are not very good offensively.  Maybe they can improve in the next couple of weeks. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Who consructed this disaster? Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!

    yazzer always the comedian, good to have you around again.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Who consructed this disaster? Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!

    The Red Sox have a great lineup

    You wrote a novel of pompous drivel. Your comment above summarizes just how out to lunch you are. Get our head out of the standard "Bill James says/proves" nonsense and take a look at 3 months during the 2011 season and the scores. 

    The Dbacks deal lots of players you claim "they can afford". In fact, some idiot like you claimed that the Padres would keep AGon, which was a joke! The fact that Crawford's contract balloons is the telling sign for a team that never gets close to the CBT.

    You don't know squat, much less "I know more than".

     
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from baddad. Show baddad's posts

    Re: Who consructed this disaster? Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!

    no way a contending team starts a season with only three starters....wake up people.....this year is gonna be a joke......we  just dont have the talent
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Guvnor. Show Guvnor's posts

    Re: Who consructed this disaster? Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!

    crawford is, and will be the worst ever dollar value recruit in this clubs history...not just his raw stats or the cash, or his age.....but also because the knock on effect on ells contract , and the fact that we already had a boat load of left hand hitting outfielders in a right hand hitters park....totally unbalanced the line up and the dynamic.

    as things stand, the rays and yanks are miles better than we are...they have both improved on last season whilst the sox are unarguably worse.....how any of the geniuses in the FO actually think the sox have a playoff team this season is beyond me - must be living in a parrallel universe....be lucky to beat the jays to 4th in the east
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Who consructed this disaster? Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!

    " Yeah who cares about season long numbers when you can go with a 6 game sample?"

    Hey now...only softy gets to use the "small sample size" argument and only when it fits his narrative.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Who consructed this disaster? Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!

    Good points ... not to mention that Justin Upton is four years younger than Jacoby Ellsbury.

    Hill, you are the same genius who claimed the Padres could afford to extend Adrian Gonzalez! A trade for Ellsbury would involve Ellsbury plus blocked prospects, and would be made to provide long term cost reductions. The point isn't that such a deal will end up being made, but that teams make these kind of deals all the time when a team or teams are floundering.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from scarhill2000. Show scarhill2000's posts

    Re: Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!

    In Response to Re: Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!:

    Hey, the comment is from Hank Williams Jr., would you really expect an intelligent posting?  I am waiting for ol'Hank to blame Obama for the Sox mess!


    In Response to Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History! : So, your problem is unions, and not ballplayers and contracts?
    Posted by Kamdog

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Who consructed this disaster? Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!

    Fact: Over a $1 per gallon of your 4$ per gallon gas costs are paid to The State!

    Fact: BP "Big Progressive Oil Spill" gave more money to Obama's campaign than any other poltical candidate

    Fact: Gas was $1.79 a gallon when "Hope and Change and Most Transparent" Obama took office

    Fact: Gas is now $3.92 a gallon

    Fact: Obama wants to increase taxes on Oil companies

    Fact: You will pay more money for a gallon of gas if Obama succeeds in increasing the Obama State's share of the money you pay to BP and other big oil companies

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from vtfanofcs. Show vtfanofcs's posts

    Re: Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!

    In Response to Re: Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!:
    The 2010 and 2009 Red Sox are a close 2nd and 3rd, adjusted for inflation and entitlement costs for people who want something for nothing.
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr

     

      Corporate Welfare comes first by a long shot
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from vtfanofcs. Show vtfanofcs's posts

    Re: Who consructed this disaster? Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!

    In Response to Re: Who consructed this disaster? Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!:
    Fact: Over a $1 per gallon of your 4$ per gallon gas costs are paid to The State! Fact: BP "Big Progressive Oil Spill" gave more money to Obama's campaign than any other poltical candidate Fact: Gas was $1.79 a gallon when "Hope and Change and Most Transparent" Obama took office Fact: Gas is now $3.92 a gallon Fact: Obama wants to increase taxes on Oil companies Fact: You will pay more money for a gallon of gas if Obama succeeds in increasing the Obama State's share of the money you pay to BP and other big oil companies
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr

      Fact: You're lying.
      Fact: Republicans destroyed the economy.
      Fact:  Ronald Reagan was a loser and was the granddaddy of debt
      Fact:  GW Bush was the worst president in any living person's lifetime.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Who consructed this disaster? Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!

    Fact: You're lying.
      Fact: Republicans destroyed the economy. (Democrats destoryed the economy)
      Fact:  Ronald Reagan was a loser and was the granddaddy of debt (Carter was a loser)
      Fact:  GW Bush was the worst president in any living person's lifetime.
    (Obama is the worst Socialist Head of State in World history and needs to take a seminar from his idol, Fidel Castro)

    Obama voters are obvious small minded liars who live in a drug induced Ward of The State utopia with $4 gallon gas prices, record exponential debt levels over any President in U.S. history, and a resident corpseman who promises everthing for nothing except when you go pay for gas.
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Who consructed this disaster? Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!

    In Response to Who consructed this disaster? Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!:
    McDonald/Sweeney Ross/Crawbust Aviles Shoppach one of the worst 6 thru 9 in all of MLB! But the real flaw is here: Ellsbury Pedroia (The only Red Sox quality RH bat but without elite SLG) Gonzalez Youkilis (well into age decline and not an elite SLG) Ortiz That right there, folks, costs about 70 million dollars a year! And not one of those union labor hands is a legitmate top RH slugging profile! Needless to say, paint by numbers gets a true superstar RH bat for less than what is paid to this fatally flawed roster. While the whining is always about the pitching, pretty good today, no one wants to admit just how weak this Red Sox offense has been, for years!
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr


    If ever there was a johnny one note demagogue, it has to be this guy.  First and foremost, he is at his happiest and most vocal when the Sox are losing and virtually silent when they are winning or when Ellsbury is playing well. 

    Second, the overwhelming majority of his posts end up by saying, "get rid of Ellsbury," whom he has attacked for literally years.  Relatedly, he has another fixation on a right-handed power hitter as the sine qua non for "fixing" the Sox offense. 

    Third, a few facts.  The Sox are 1-5 right now largely because their pitching staff has the worst ERA in the AL and over a run worse than the next to worst.  The pitching stinks.  When the Sox took a 3 run lead into the bottom of the 9th in Detroit, the bullpen gave up 3 runs.  When the Sox took a 2 run lead into the bottom of the 11th, the bullpen gave up 3 more runs for a loss.  Beckett and Buchholz both stank it up in their first starts.   If the Sox had scored, say, 10 runs in game 2 in Detroit instead of being shut out, there can be little doubt that the Sox staff would have given up more than the 10 runs that were given up. 

    The offense hankwilliamsjr derides was the best in MLB last year, but in September it could not overcome--this little stat might sound familiar--the worst pitching staff in all of MLB with an ERA of 5.40 and a bullpen that blew, wait for it, 6 of 9 saves.  The offense, meanwhile, had in fact tailed off in September.  It was only the fourth best in MLB.  hank wants us to believe that not getting to the playoffs last year was all about hitting in the clutch or whatever, but the facts do not support him. 

    Finally, the obvious fact that we are 6 games into the season.  If last year's lousy April has taught us nothing more, it should have taught us that the season does not end on April 30 or even on April 15.  So, while I agree that the "big five" (Ellsbury, Pedroia, AGon, Ortiz, and Youkilis) have as a group underperformed thus far--last year at one point those five had OPS's among the top ten in the AL--it is more than reasonable to expect the hitting to turn around.  Hank has of course studiously ignored the fact that Sweeney--criminally, a lefty hitter--has hit pretty well so far. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Who consructed this disaster? Red Sox Lineup for the Money is the Worst in All of Baseball History!

    If you want to cry look at the 1981 Red Sox - gone are Lynn, Fisk, the Rooster, and Tiant. They are replaced by the likes of Perez, Allenson, Poquette, and Renko. 
     
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