Who could we package for an ace?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Who could we package for an ace?

    #1 Outside of Beckett, Lester and Clay, we have Ells, Pede, AGon, Doubront, Bard, Aceves and possibly Papi who have the greatest value.
     
    #2 A few decents prospects we should probably keep, with Barnes being the best pitcher.  The rest of the guys like Ross, Salty etc. would just be a throw in for most teams.

    You see our dillema folks?  This is why I wasn't too sad to see Theo leave.

    Dice K  10mil - TJ
    Lackey 15mil  - TJ
    CC       20mil "injured" and yet to do anything in Boston
    Jenks     6.5 mil "couldn't give away"
    Youk    12.5 "injured" often and has had declining numbers










     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from accland. Show accland's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace and/or cash?

    At this point, to get an ace the offer starts with Pedroia.  There really is nothing else of value without giving up on the future with Middlebrooks and/or lavarnway.
    Put the shoe on the other foot.  Would you trade anything of value for Beckett, Youk, Buch?
    No trade for injured Els or CC.
    You cannot give up Lester because he has ace potential, while declining, and you would gain nothing by trading him.

    We need a Boston "T" party when we throw a theo effigy into the harbor.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    Like I said, no team would trade for Beckett and his ridiculous contract for a mere player to be named later and that was BEFORE his attitude took a turn for the worse.

    Thank you, Theo!!!!!!!!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    Perhaps the most prudent thing to do is to try and dump Crawford for whatever it takes.....Let other teams approach us for trades and listen to their offers - we'd be more in the driver's seat that way - try and accumulate as many top prospects as possible and then use those prospects to obtain a solid starting pitcher....and to bring up the kids who we think will be part of the longer term solution now....and be willing to spend $ in 2013 after taking a break from spending in 2012 (Cole Hammels?)........
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]#1 Outside of Beckett, Lester and Clay, we have Ells, Pede, AGon, Doubront, Bard, Aceves and possibly Papi who have the greatest value.   #2 A few decents prospects we should probably keep, with Barnes being the best pitcher.  The rest of the guys like Ross, Salty etc. would just be a throw in for most teams. You see our dillema folks?  This is why I wasn't too sad to see Theo leave. Dice K  10mil - TJ Lackey 15mil  - TJ CC       20mil "injured" and yet to do anything in Boston Jenks     6.5 mil "couldn't give away" Youk    12.5 "injured" often and has had declining numbers
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    Craze - I don't buy that.  In 1969 dollars Lester has more value than Beckett....about 4 years or so....but in 2012 dollars you can't seperate talent/age/salary/control.

    Accounting for age/performance/health/salary/control which Sox players do I think have the most value?

    Off the top of my head I'd say Pedroia, Lester....are the two elite values.

    Bard...and Buchholz, if healthy, are next.

    Aceves/Ells with one year of control left.

    Beckett/Agon/Ortiz fully priced

    etc.....


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace and/or cash?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace and/or cash?:
    [QUOTE]At this point, to get an ace the offer starts with Pedroia.  There really is nothing else of value without giving up on the future with Middlebrooks and/or lavarnway. Put the shoe on the other foot.  Would you trade anything of value for Beckett, Youk, Buch? No trade for injured Els or CC. You cannot give up Lester because he has ace potential, while declining, and you would gain nothing by trading him. We need a Boston "T" party when we throw a theo effigy into the harbor.
    Posted by accland[/QUOTE]

    Pede is the heart and soul of this team.  If I were to trade for an ace it would probably be for a guy like Felix H. but do my best to keep Pede.  The Mariners need help everywhere in their lineup more than Felix right now. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from teamguy. Show teamguy's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    You don't have enough 'free' pieces to trade for an ace.  Anyone good enough to get another team's interest we need with a capital 'N'.

    Beckett you can move for cash, but that leaves you without a frontline starter.
    Pede you wouldn't move unless you're crazy [he's your best player]
    Agon is unmoveable
    Papi is performing, but overpaid. 1 yr contract. 0 trade value.
    Aceves is holding the pen together at this point [for now].

    A lot of our roster is made up of AAA+ players no one would be interested in, imo.

    Giving up on Bard and Dubront means you've whittled your staff down to a front two with no serious propsects coming up soon from the fram that I know of.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Who could we package for an ace? : Craze - I don't buy that.  In 1969 dollars Lester has more value than Beckett....about 4 years or so....but in 2012 dollars you can't seperate talent/age/salary/control. Accounting for age/performance/health/salary/control which Sox players do I think have the most value? Off the top of my head I'd say Pedroia, Lester....are the two elite values. Bard...and Buchholz, if healthy, are next. Aceves/Ells with one year of control left. Beckett/Agon/Ortiz fully priced etc.....
    Posted by Chilliwings[/QUOTE]

    I see your point chills but anyone can be traded when a team has a particular need and willingness to make it.  CC, Lackey and Beckett because of the money, injuries and attitude would be tough to deal.   Ells, Pede and Youk are guys that play hard every day "when healthy" these type of players could entise a team much easier, as could Lester or AGon. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace and/or cash?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace and/or cash?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace and/or cash? : Pede is the heart and soul of this team.  If I were to trade for an ace it would probably be for a guy like Felix H. but do my best to keep Pede.  The Mariners need help everywhere in their lineup more than Felix right now. 
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]


    Did  you consider that Felix might be the "heart and soul" of the Mariners? Why do people keep wanting the other teams best players but assume we do not have to give up our best?  


     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace? : I see your point chills but anyone can be traded when a team has a particular need and willingness to make it.  CC, Lackey and Beckett because of the money, injuries and attitude would be tough to deal.   Ells, Pede and Youk are guys that play hard every day "when healthy" these type of players could entise a team much easier, as could Lester or AGon. 
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    I don't agree, craze.  One can BUY most anything they want in life, be it a mint condition '64 Mustang, a factory-new Sonics LP, or a broken down Tonka Toy....if they put up enough cash. 

    But you can't SELL without a buyer.  What is the trade value of Bobby Jenks?  It's not even zero....we'd have to pay a team to take him away because his salary has to be paid and he is unable to perform before his contract expires.  So it's less than zero, right? 

    Carl Crawford?  He's got what, 5 years and $100m left on his contract?  Would you give him away for free (enabling you to reinvest in another player)?  OF COURSE!  But every other team thinks the same...so we'd have to pay them to take him away....so he has negative value to the Sox.

    Sorry if I'm preaching to the choir, but so/too many people are unable to bridge the talent/salary gap as if we're still pre-Andy Messersmith....

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from freediro. Show freediro's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    hahaha, you want to trade guys no team would want. How about starting with guys like Iggy, Middlebrooks, Lavarnway and Doubrant? Teams will want young talent, not washed up veterans. This isn't fantasy baseball, it's the real deal softballers, we aren't just dropping guys to waivers to save face.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thomasmtom. Show Thomasmtom's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    If the Sox wait until the July trade deadline trading veterans for prospects should be easier. Hopefully a number of the players mentioned above are healthy and playing well enough to have a trade value. At best the Sox are going to eat a number of dollars in salary to make this work.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from MikeNagy. Show MikeNagy's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    It would take more than an ace to fix this team, unless he could pitch everyday and throw complete games. There is no quick fix this year. All we can do is hope that the pieces we have get it together. The only way you get value in return is to give up the people like Pedroia or papi that are going to take away as much value as you gain. It's not like the sox are one man shy of being a much better team. Most of this team have negative value considering their salaries compared to their play this year.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    Maybe we could trade the entire Pawtucket roster for Felix Hernandez.  Then, when he gets here, we wait a month, complain about how fat and over-rated he is, and trade him to the Cubs for a PTBNL.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    pedroia or ells..both young players with lots of years left and affordable salaries...

    thats it

    no one is going to want A 20 mil power 1b with two homers who plays like he cant wait to get home and nap....and Crawford - yea right....

    id rather wait these bad contracts out then give up pedey or ells
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace and/or cash?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace and/or cash?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace and/or cash? : Did  you consider that Felix might be the "heart and soul" of the Mariners? Why do people keep wanting the other teams best players but assume we do not have to give up our best?  
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    Hey burrito,

    Felix is without a doubt one of those rare low key aces moon claims there are few of without a big ego and also well liked by his teammates. 

    Seattle has some good young arms "a great team" for the Sox to trade with because we need pitching.  The Mariners with a stronger offense won't miss Felix as much as they think.  Felix deserves better than a close win, tough loss or "a no decision" based on lack of run support and so do their fans.  

    I feel the Mariners trading Montero for Pineda was a great start but also feel they could trade Felix for more offense and improve their club even more because of their young upcomming arms. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrh1194. Show jrh1194's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE] The only way you get value in return is to give up the people like Pedroia or papi that are going to take away as much value as you gain. It's not like the sox are one man shy of being a much better team. Most of this team have negative value considering their salaries compared to their play this year.
    Posted by MikeNagy[/QUOTE]I agree with you on Pedroia, but nobody is going to trade us a decent pitcher let alone an ace for Papi. That's just not realistic.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]pedroia or ells..both young players with lots of years left and affordable salaries... thats it no one is going to want A 20 mil power 1b with two homers who plays like he cant wait to get home and nap....and Crawford - yea right.... id rather wait these bad contracts out then give up pedey or ells
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    Geo - Too right!  I'll see your "no one" and raise you a "no way in hell".  Let's assume AGon finishes 2012 near his (great) career norm.  At $20m+/season.  Who's a potential trading partner?  Yanks?  Phillies?  Angels?  Tigers?  Too many people just don't seem to think things through.

    Crawford?  Worth more to us than any other team....obviously. Because we'd have to pay someone to haul him away....whereas he might eventually become a player worth $5-15m for us.  He's a sunk cost.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    This the DH American League. Another Ace isn't going to do the job for this team. This team isn't unable to score enough runs on a consistent basis. Today, pitiful followed pitiful. Had the Red Sox had an ace, they still lose.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace? : Geo - Too right!  I'll see your "no one" and raise you a "no way in hell".  Let's assume AGon finishes 2012 near his (great) career norm.  At $20m+/season.  Who's a potential trading partner?  Yanks?  Phillies?  Angels?  Tigers?  Too many people just don't seem to think things through. Crawford?  Worth more to us than any other team....obviously. Because we'd have to pay someone to haul him away....whereas he might eventually become a player worth $5-15m for us.  He's a sunk cost.
    Posted by Chilliwings[/QUOTE]

    It's amazing how certain players seem to have career years in Tampa but nowhere else. Pena, Crawford, Joyce and Kotch?   Must be something in the air, or possibly good management?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]Maybe we could trade the entire Pawtucket roster for Felix Hernandez.  Then, when he gets here, we wait a month, complain about how fat and over-rated he is, and trade him to the Cubs for a PTBNL.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]That sounds about right Laughing
     
  23. This post has been removed.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace and/or cash?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace and/or cash?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace and/or cash? : Hey burrito, Felix is without a doubt one of those rare low key aces moon claims there are few of without a big ego and also well liked by his teammates.   Seattle has some good young arms "a great team" for the Sox to trade with because we need pitching.  The Mariners with a stronger offense won't miss Felix as much as they think.  Felix deserves better than a close win, tough loss or "a no decision" based on lack of run support and so do their fans.   I feel the Mariners trading Montero for Pineda was a great start but also feel they could trade Felix for more offense and improve their club even more because of their young upcomming arms. 
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]
    Seattle might not like the Red Sox prospects any better than the young Mariner players.

    Saturday's Seattle lineup had 38-year-old Ichiro Suzuki and 30-year-old Brendan Ryan, but otherwise had players 28, 27, 26, 25(3), 24(2) and 22 years old.

    Looking beyond Saturday's Mariner lineup, 23-year-old Will Middlebrooks might not be an upgrade over 23-year-old Alex Liddi, 24-year-old Ryan Lavarnway might not be an upgrade over 23-year-old Vinnie Catricala and 19-year-old Xander Bogaerts might not be an upgrade over 21-year-old Nick Franklin. Matt Barnes has been impressive to date, but the righthander still trails Seattle pitching prospects Taijuan Walker, Danny Hultzen and James Paxton on most prospect lists.

    I suspect the Red Sox lack the pieces to land Felix Hernandez or another top-tier starter.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]#1 Outside of Beckett, Lester and Clay, we have Ells, Pede, AGon, Doubront, Bard, Aceves and possibly Papi who have the greatest value.   #2 A few decents prospects we should probably keep, with Barnes being the best pitcher.  The rest of the guys like Ross, Salty etc. would just be a throw in for most teams. You see our dillema folks?  This is why I wasn't too sad to see Theo leave. Dice K  10mil - TJ Lackey 15mil  - TJ CC       20mil "injured" and yet to do anything in Boston Jenks     6.5 mil "couldn't give away" Youk    12.5 "injured" often and has had declining numbers
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    So wait - the GM is at fault for Daisuke being on the DL 6 years later?

    If those are the standards, maybe the Sox should bnever sign a free agent.   Their fans would defintely be happy.  And one would think that since only 95% of the complaints on this board revolve around free agency, they should want no more.

    And yet, somehow, no...
     
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