Who could we package for an ace?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In response to "Re: Who could we package for an ace?": [QUOTE]Maybe we could trade the entire Pawtucket roster for Felix Hernandez.  Then, when he gets here, we wait a month, complain about how fat and over-rated he is, and trade him to the Cubs for a PTBNL. Posted by slomag[/QUOTE] ROFL. Best post in thread.
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    Had the Red Sox had an ace, they still lose

    Yeah and if they had an all star right hand bat in the lineup, they still lose. 

    Get the drift? Both offense and defense counts in sports. Think on that and get back with us when you're done reducing complex problems to one size fits all solutions.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    i would say the sox have the pieces to land an ace (middlebrooks, lava, iglesias, barnes)  but the question is, which ace could we trade for? phillies wont deal hamels, grienke could be available if the brewers are out of it by the deadline but even that is not a guarantee, cubs are already out if it but does anyone really consider garza an ace? he would be a good pickup but is not an ace, felix hernandez who i would love to see on the sox is not likely to be dealt if the mariners are out of it (or should i say when). so who can we get? 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    Finding a true "ace" who is on a non-contending team willing to trade him is hard enough. Unless he is way overpaid, the return package would have to be enormous (see the Sox offer for King Felix that was reortedly turned down by Seattle).

    We do have some top prosects that I'm sure other teams want, such as, Middlebrooks, Lavarnway, Bogaerts, Barnes, and to a lesser extent Iggy, Kalish, Ranaudo, Cecchini, Swihart, Brentz, Lin, Jacobs, Bradley, Anderson, and Coyle.

    We also have some young & cheap players on out current roster that other teams would like:
    Doubront (24), Morales (26), Tazawa (26), Bard (27), Mortensen (27), Melancon (27), Sweeney (27), Salty (27), and Ellsbury (28).

    It's hard to know what other team's GMs think of our prospects and young ML players, and I'd bet some might like a guy like Salty or Melancon, while others might only want them as "throw-ins".

    A contending team might take Salty and Melancon for a good prospect.
    Another might take Doubront and Tazawa for a better prospect.
    Another might take Sweeney and Mortensen for a nice prospect.

    put these three prospects together and package them with 2-3 of our own, and maybe we could sctratch and claw our way to finding and getting a true ace.

    It won't be easy.

    A trade involving Ellsbury and prospects might get us one, but then we'd have another huge gap to fill in CF. (I'd rather have to fill that gap than a huge gap on the staff.)

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    Many may disagree with some on this list, but here are some pitchers I consider "aces" or very near aces: (not in any particular order)

    Verlander
    Halladay
    Hernandez *
    Sabathia
    C Lee
    Price
    Lincecum
    M Cain
    D Haren *
    Hamels
    J Weaver *
    Kershaw *
    Greinke *

    * On teams not really considered top WS contenders (except maybe LAD)

    The best chance would have to be Felix, Haren, Weaver, or Greinke.

    If we look at just our minor league prospects, I don't think we can get any of these guys too easily. We'd have to include a Bard or Doubront or some other player(s) some GM might covet [Morales (26), Tazawa (26), Mortensen (27), Melancon (27), Sweeney (27), or Salty (27)].




     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    It's amazing how certain players seem to have career years in Tampa but nowhere else. Pena, Crawford, Joyce and Kotch?   Must be something in the air, or possibly good management?

    What's equally amazing is how many TB players tank or get hurt after they are traded or lost to free agency, especially relief pitchers... 

    (Lugo, Bartlett, Soriano, Kazmir, Delmon Young, Wheeler, Benoit, & L Cormier) 

    (You forgot Soriano and Farnsworth on your list...there's probably more too.)
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from stillgridlocked. Show stillgridlocked's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    It's also amazing how many can't miss free agents come to Boston and implode.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from lardin. Show lardin's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]Many may disagree with some on this list, but here are some pitchers I consider "aces" or very near aces: (not in any particular order) Verlander Halladay Hernandez * Sabathia C Lee Price Lincecum M Cain D Haren * Hamels J Weaver * Kershaw * Greinke * * On teams not really considered top WS contenders (except maybe LAD) The best chance would have to be Felix, Haren, Weaver, or Greinke. If we look at just our minor league prospects, I don't think we can get any of these guys too easily. We'd have to include a Bard or Doubront or some other player(s) some GM might covet [ Morales (26), Tazawa (26), Mortensen (27), Melancon (27), Sweeney (27), or Salty (27)].
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Weaver just signed an extension with a no trade clause, count him out. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Who could we package for an ace? : So wait - the GM is at fault for Daisuke being on the DL 6 years later? If those are the standards, maybe the Sox should bnever sign a free agent.   Their fans would defintely be happy.  And one would think that since only 95% of the complaints on this board revolve around free agency, they should want no more. And yet, somehow, no...
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    Dice K's total investment was around 160mil.  He had more innings on his arm than probably any major leaguer at 26.  Take away his "one good 18 and 3" record and 2.90 ERA in 08 and his other four years in Boston produced this .....

    34 wins and 30 losses with a 5.00 ERA and TJ surgery

    Lackey we signed for around 80mil, he has a 26 and 23 record with a 5.50 ERA and yup surgery again.  Both Dice and John had tired "short term" arms when given contracts.  So to answer your question notin?   Yes, Theo was a complete idiot in most cases when it came to evaluating FA's.

    Anyone remember Wake and his very low contract?  Yup it was time for him to retire but his numbers really were not that much worse.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]Many may disagree with some on this list, but here are some pitchers I consider "aces" or very near aces: (not in any particular order) Verlander Halladay Hernandez * Sabathia C Lee Price Lincecum M Cain D Haren * Hamels J Weaver * Kershaw * Greinke * * On teams not really considered top WS contenders (except maybe LAD) The best chance would have to be Felix, Haren, Weaver, or Greinke. If we look at just our minor league prospects, I don't think we can get any of these guys too easily. We'd have to include a Bard or Doubront or some other player(s) some GM might covet [ Morales (26), Tazawa (26), Mortensen (27), Melancon (27), Sweeney (27), or Salty (27)].
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    That was pretty much my point moon.  Present management has a wall in front of them any direction they turn these days because of previous mistakes.  This team could take a few years before getting back to championship quality unless we find some creativity and a lot of luck.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]It's amazing how certain players seem to have career years in Tampa but nowhere else. Pena, Crawford, Joyce and Kotch?   Must be something in the air, or possibly good management? What's equally amazing is how many TB players tank or get hurt after they are traded or lost to free agency, especially relief pitchers...  (Lugo, Bartlett, Soriano, Kazmir, Delmon Young, Wheeler, Benoit, & L Cormier)  (You forgot Soriano and Farnsworth on your list...there's probably more too.)
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    No hard core proof moon without being an insider, but it does give some indication Tampa's management must do a pretty good job.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from FenwayChuck. Show FenwayChuck's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace and/or cash?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace and/or cash?:
    [QUOTE]At this point, to get an ace the offer starts with Pedroia.  There really is nothing else of value without giving up on the future with Middlebrooks and/or lavarnway. Put the shoe on the other foot.  Would you trade anything of value for Beckett, Youk, Buch? No trade for injured Els or CC. You cannot give up Lester because he has ace potential, while declining, and you would gain nothing by trading him. We need a Boston "T" party when we throw a theo effigy into the harbor.
    Posted by accland[/QUOTE]
    Accland.... I do believe that is exactly what the original poster was trying to say.... FOR ALL THE MONEY invested in this team... it for the most part does not have the value of a used roll of toilet paper.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]Finding a true "ace" who is on a non-contending team willing to trade him is hard enough. Unless he is way overpaid, the return package would have to be enormous (see the Sox offer for King Felix that was reortedly turned down by Seattle). We do have some top prosects that I'm sure other teams want, such as, Middlebrooks, Lavarnway, Bogaerts, Barnes, and to a lesser extent Iggy, Kalish, Ranaudo, Cecchini, Swihart, Brentz, Lin, Jacobs, Bradley, Anderson, and Coyle. We also have some young & cheap players on out current roster that other teams would like: Doubront (24), Morales (26), Tazawa (26), Bard (27), Mortensen (27), Melancon (27), Sweeney (27), Salty (27), and Ellsbury (28).
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]
    The reported August 2009 offer for Felix Hernandez was any five of the following eight players:

    RHP Clay Buchholz
    RHP Daniel Bard
    RHP Justin Masterson
    LHP Nick Hagadone
    RHP Michael Bowden
    LHP Felix Doubront
    OF Josh Reddick
    SS Yamaico Navarro

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/marinersblog/2009591133_mariners_turned_down_three-way.html

    At the time, many on this forum blasted the Mariners for turning down the reported offer. However, nearly three years later the offer appears weak, particularly considering Seattle's need for hitting. Josh Reddick and Yamaico Navarro were the only position players in the offer.

    The current Red Sox prospects have never been ranked as high as many prospects in the rejected August 2009 package. The Sox will need to set their sights lower.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace? : The reported August 2009 offer for Felix Hernandez was any five of the following eight players: RHP Clay Buchholz RHP Daniel Bard RHP Justin Masterson LHP Nick Hagadone RHP Michael Bowden LHP Felix Doubront OF Josh Reddick SS Yamaico Navarro http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/marinersblog/2009591133_mariners_turned_down_three-way.html At the time, many on this forum blasted the Mariners for turning down the reported offer. However, nearly three years later the offer appears weak, particularly considering Seattle's need for hitting. Josh Reddick and Yamaico Navarro were the only position players in the offer. The current Red Sox prospects have never been ranked as high as many prospects in the rejected August 2009 package. The Sox will need to set their sights lower.
    Posted by hill55[/QUOTE]

    Good point hill, this is why I still feel we not only have the prospects and starters to land Felix but it may be in the Mariners best interest to listen if they ever really intend on improving their offense.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from iamme17. Show iamme17's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    there ain't no "ace"coming in a trade unless pedey and a couple of ML baseball's top 10 prospects would be heading the other way.There ain't no top ML 10 prospects in the sox system and they ain't dumping pedey.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    Many may disagree with some on this list, but here are some pitchers I consider "aces" or very near aces: (not in any particular order) Verlander Halladay Hernandez * Sabathia C Lee Price Lincecum M Cain D Haren * Hamels J Weaver * Kershaw * Greinke * * On teams not really considered top WS contenders (except maybe LAD) The best chance would have to be Felix, Haren, Weaver, or Greinke. If we look at just our minor league prospects, I don't think we can get any of these guys too easily. We'd have to include a Bard or Doubront or some other player(s) some GM might covet [ Morales (26), Tazawa (26), Mortensen (27), Melancon (27), Sweeney (27), or Salty (27)].
    Posted by moonslav59


    That was pretty much my point moon.  Present management has a wall in front of them any direction they turn these days because of previous mistakes.  This team could take a few years before getting back to championship quality unless we find some creativity and a lot of luck.

    I think Ben needs a bit of breathing room. I feel he was budget=restricted this winter, but next winter he will have some wiggle room by losing some big contracts without losing anyone of great importance, unless he lets Papi and/or Youk walk.

    I do not think I am being a homer by saying I think our prospects might be better than baseball America and others have rated them. We had a very deep draft last year and it may take a year or so for those kids to break onto their lists. We also have some young talent on the big club already:
    24 Doubront
    26 Morales, Tazawa
    27 Buchholtz, Bard, Sweeney, Salty, Melancon, Mortensen
    28 Lester, Pedey, Ellsbury

    Are there other teams with a bigger young player base? Of course... many, but we do have a nice core of players to go along with some pretty talented vets that are locked under team control for a few years:
    29 Aceves
    30 AGon
    31 Aviles
    32 Beckett

    Although the CC and lackey deals have been crippling, there is still hope we get some value out of them in the future: certainly not worth what they are getting paid, but they may still contribute  in some very meaningful ways. All is not doom and gloom, even though it looks that way this year thus far.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace? : The reported August 2009 offer for Felix Hernandez was any five of the following eight players: RHP Clay Buchholz RHP Daniel Bard RHP Justin Masterson LHP Nick Hagadone RHP Michael Bowden LHP Felix Doubront OF Josh Reddick SS Yamaico Navarro http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/marinersblog/2009591133_mariners_turned_down_three-way.html At the time, many on this forum blasted the Mariners for turning down the reported offer. However, nearly three years later the offer appears weak, particularly considering Seattle's need for hitting. Josh Reddick and Yamaico Navarro were the only position players in the offer. The current Red Sox prospects have never been ranked as high as many prospects in the rejected August 2009 package. The Sox will need to set their sights lower.
    Posted by hill55[/QUOTE]

    You don't think the Mariners would have won a few more games the past couple of years with Buchholz, Bard, Masterson, Reddick & Doubront?  How much value has Felix had to the team?  He's filled some seats on the days he's pitched, but the Mariners haven't come close to contending.

    I agree that the Red Sox should look elsewhere, though.  Brandon McCarthy is a trade candidate, as the A's will not be able to extend him, and if the Phillies are out of contention (I highly doubt they will be) Cole Hamels should be in play.  I don't know if Hamels would be considered a lower sight than Hernandez.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    Finding a true "ace" who is on a non-contending team willing to trade him is hard enough.Unless he is way overpaid, the return package would have to be enormous (see the Sox offer for King Felix that was reortedly turned down by Seattle). We do have some top prosects that I'm sure other teams want, such as, Middlebrooks, Lavarnway, Bogaerts, Barnes, and to a lesser extent Iggy, Kalish, Ranaudo, Cecchini, Swihart, Brentz, Lin, Jacobs, Bradley, Anderson, and Coyle. We also have some young & cheap players on out current roster that other teams would like: Doubront (24), Morales (26), Tazawa (26), Bard (27), Mortensen (27), Melancon (27), Sweeney (27), Salty (27), and Ellsbury (28). 
    Posted by moonslav59

    The reported August 2009 offer for Felix Hernandez was any five of the following eight players:

    RHP Clay Buchholz
    RHP Daniel Bard
    RHP Justin Masterson
    LHP Nick Hagadone
    RHP Michael Bowden
    LHP Felix Doubront
    OF Josh Reddick
    SS Yamaico Navarro

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/marinersblog/2009591133_mariners_turned_down_three-way.html

    At the time, many on this forum blasted the Mariners for turning down the reported offer. However, nearly three years later the offer appears weak, particularly considering Seattle's need for hitting. Josh Reddick and Yamaico Navarro were the only position players in the offer.

    The current Red Sox prospects have never been ranked as high as many prospects in the rejected August 2009 package. The Sox will need to set their sights lower.

    Good points, hill, as always, but now we seem to have more offensive prospects then back then. What if we gave them this list to choose 5 or 6 from:

    RHP Clay Buchholz
    RHP Daniel Bard
    LHP Felix Doubront
    RHP Barnes
    RHP Ranaudo
    C/DH Lavarnway
    3B  Middlebrooks
    SS Iglesias or Bogaerts
    OF Kalish or Jacobs or Bradley

    I'm not saying I would like decimating our farm for one guy who would also take up most of the 2013 budget wiggle room as well, but I do think the Sox have enough to offer. 

    Seattle might also be interested in Sweeney, Salty, Melancon, Morales, or Tazawa.

    If Ellsbury agreed to an extension, they might want him as well.

    There are a lot of scenarios here, and every team has a different view on what the Sox players are worth. Maybe some player we do not think is that promising is near the top of the Mariner's list of young players coveted.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]there ain't no "ace"coming in a trade unless pedey and a couple of ML baseball's top 10 prospects would be heading the other way.There ain't no top ML 10 prospects in the sox system and they ain't dumping pedey.
    Posted by iamme17[/QUOTE]

    I personally think a package similar to this would be a good offer for Felix along with seager or Liddi to back up Middlebrooks.  Ciraico and Iggy can man SS 

    Buchholz, P
    Youk, IB
    Aviles, 2B is his best defensive position
    Renaudo
    Brentz or Kalish
    One more prospect if necessary












     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace? : I personally think a package similar to this would be a good offer for Felix along with seager or Liddi to back up Middlebrooks.  Ciraico and Iggy can man SS  Buchholz, P Youk, IB Aviles, 2B is his best defensive position Renaudo Brentz or Kalish One more prospect if necessary
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    I think the Mariners are trying to build a young core.  I don't think they would have any interest in a player over 25, unless they think they can flip him for other prospects.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace? : I think the Mariners are trying to build a young core.  I don't think they would have any interest in a player over 25, unless they think they can flip him for other prospects.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    You may be right slomag, but I think Felix would have his best years behind him before they ever become really competitive with that mindset.  Never know what makes some franchises tick or why. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from beavis. Show beavis's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    Good point especially with this team lacking the past of PJ or Shill. Aces who dealt braun with brains. With V-teck gone, and the manager of Blue Jays too, Sox need someone to step up and lead this team to a win.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrh1194. Show jrh1194's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace? : I think the Mariners are trying to build a young core.  I don't think they would have any interest in a player over 25, unless they think they can flip him for other prospects.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    I agree that Seattle would be looking for a package of young highly rated players. I seriously doubt they would have any interest in a package that included Buch and Youk. They could do much better for Felix.
     
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