Who could we package for an ace?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace? : I agree that Seattle would be looking for a package of young highly rated players. I seriously doubt they would have any interest in a package that included Buch and Youk. They could do much better for Felix.
    Posted by jrh1194[/QUOTE]

    The Mariners usually don't shy away from older players so I'm not so sure they would go that rout unless they are "all of a sudden" set on mediocrity.  Youk would be a huge upgrade at IB or DH and probably stay in the lineup more.  Clay and Aviles would also be upgrades and still have a lot of good years.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]#1 Outside of Beckett, Lester and Clay, we have Ells, Pede, AGon, Doubront, Bard, Aceves and possibly Papi who have the greatest value.   #2 A few decents prospects we should probably keep, with Barnes being the best pitcher.  The rest of the guys like Ross, Salty etc. would just be a throw in for most teams. You see our dillema folks?  This is why I wasn't too sad to see Theo leave. Dice K  10mil - TJ Lackey 15mil  - TJ CC       20mil "injured" and yet to do anything in Boston Jenks     6.5 mil "couldn't give away" Youk    12.5 "injured" often and has had declining numbers
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    Let me ask this question: What ace are you thinking the SOX could obtain? Then maybe we could discuss what players.

    Oh, let me also add. One ace will not help this Sox team. The current pitching staff has to start living up or earning its keep. Period.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace? : I personally think a package similar to this would be a good offer for Felix along with seager or Liddi to back up Middlebrooks.  Ciraico and Iggy can man SS  Buchholz, P Youk, IB Aviles, 2B is his best defensive position Renaudo Brentz or Kalish One more prospect if necessary
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]
    I question whether Clay Buchholz could break into the Seattle starting rotation in the long term with the Big Three of Danny Hultzen, James Paxton and Taijuan Walker coming up.

    Let's not forget that Buchholz is nearly two years older than Felix Hernandez. I have both on my fantasy team with these statistics in the relevant categories (entering today's games):

    FH 51 K, 1.89 ERA, 0.94 WHIP, 6 quality starts
    CB 16 K, 8.69 ERA, 1.90 WHIP, 0 quality starts

    The young Mariners aren't looking to downgrade.

    Buchholz remains hidden on my fantasy bench and I'm considering a columnist's recent recommendation that Buchholz be dropped altogether in a 10-team mixed league.

    Your proposed package might land Seattle lefthander Jason Vargas, who ranks 24th among American League starters in WAR* since the start of the 2010 season. However, as another poster noted, the Mariners might have little interest in Kevin Youkilis and Mike Aviles, who are on the wrong side of their 30th birthdays.

    * Wins Above Replacement as reported at FanGraphs
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace? : I question whether Clay Buchholz could break into the Seattle starting rotation in the long term with the Big Three of Danny Hultzen, James Paxton and Taijuan Walker coming up. Let's not forget that Buchholz is nearly two years older than Felix Hernandez. I have both on my fantasy team with these statistics in the relevant categories (entering today's games): FH 51 K, 1.89 ERA, 0.94 WHIP, 6 quality starts CB 16 K, 8.69 ERA, 1.90 WHIP, 0 quality starts The young Mariners aren't looking to downgrade. Buchholz remains hidden on my fantasy bench and I'm considering a columnist's recent recommendation that Buchholz be dropped altogether in a 10-team mixed league. Your proposed package might land Seattle lefthander Jason Vargas, who ranks 24th among American League starters in WAR* since the start of the 2010 season. However, as another poster noted, the Mariners might have little interest in Kevin Youkilis and Mike Aviles, who are on the wrong side of their 30th birthdays. * Wins Above Replacement as reported at FanGraphs
    Posted by hill55[/QUOTE]

    Vargas isn't worth any more than Clay straight up.  The guy has been around for almost 7 years and this is his lowest ERA to date.  I'm surprised you are even making this statement based on seven games this season when he has a career 31 and 41.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace? : Vargas isn't worth any more than Clay straight up.  The guy has been around for almost 7 years and this is his lowest ERA to date.  I'm surprised you are even making this statement based on seven games this season when he has a career 31 and 41.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]
    Re-read my post.

    I cite the WAR ranking for Jason Vargas since the start of the 2010 season, covering 70 starts. Vargas has a combined WAR of 5.5 over that period to the 4.5 WAR posted by Clay Buchholz (even including the righthander's breakout season in 2010).
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace? : Re-read my post. I cite the WAR ranking for Jason Vargas since the start of the 2010 season , covering 70 starts. Vargas has a combined WAR of 5.5 over that period to the 4.5 WAR posted by Clay Buchholz (even including the righthander's breakout season in 2010).
    Posted by hill55[/QUOTE]

    I would still take the chance with Clay recovering even though hes another coveted Theo guy.  There is no reason he can't have at least the same if not better success.  I was directing this more at your statement that my package for Felix would only land a Vargas type which is crazy.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace? : I would still take the chance with Clay.  There is no reason he can't have at least the same if not better success.  I was directing this more at your statement that my package for Felix would only land a Vargas type which is crazy.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]
    My point was that Kevin Youkilis, Clay Buchholz and Mike Aviles have little trade value.

    When will Buchholz post his first quality start of 2012? Will Buchholz remain in the Red Sox rotation after his season ERA rose to 9.09 and his WHIP to 2.02 in today's sixth start of the season?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    If Felix Hernandez was a trade the Mariners were willing to make - he would now be pitching in the Yankee lineup.  They tried with some super prospect offers and ended up with only Pineda...a second choice for them.  The main thing with the Mariners is that they do not want players that they have to put under contract and see walk later on.  They want youthful players with lots of control for the Mariners before they become FAs.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace? : My point was that Kevin Youkilis, Clay Buchholz and Mike Aviles have little trade value. When will Buchholz post his first quality start of 2012? Will Buchholz remain in the Red Sox rotation after his season ERA rose to 9.09 and his WHIP to 2.02 in today's sixth start of the season?
    Posted by hill55[/QUOTE]

    That part I can't predict but chances of Youk, Clay and company recovering and helping a team more are certainly greater than Vargas doing much in our division. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace? : That part I can't predict but chances of Youk, Clay and company recovering and helping a team more are certainly greater than Vargas doing much in our division. 
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]
    The Mariners have a better chance of landing Adrian Gonzalez for Chone Figgins than the Red Sox have of landing Felix Hernandez for Kevin Youkilis, Clay Buchholz, Mike Aviles and mid-level prospects.

    The $127 million remaining after this year of the contract of Adrian Gonzalez, who turns 30 on Tuesday, is a far greater risk than the $39.5 million remaining after this season on the contract of 26-year-old Felix Hernandez.

    Chone Figgins, who can play many positions, can fill in at the leadoff slot until Jacoby Ellsbury returns. Kevin Youkilis returns home to first base while Will Middlebrooks takes over at third.

    Neither trade prosposal is realistic, but the proposals have parallels.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    I hear the GM in Toronto is looking to deal perenial Cy Young Candidate Roy Halladay if we are willing to include future hall of famer Clay Buchholtz in a..oh dammit!!!!!!!! nevermind!!!!!!!!!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    The Mariners do not want Youk or Aviles.

    I doubt Felix is our best chance to land an ace. We probably have a better chance with the Angels (for Dan Haren or Jered Weaver), or the Brewers for Greinke, of the Giants for Cain or Lincecum.

    One reason I see them as a better chance is that they have some dead weight salary players on their team that we could take off their hands as partial comp for taking their ace.

    How's this:

    Trade:

    CC, Youk, Buch, Sweeney, Iglesias, Ranaudo, Coyle, & Anderson

    For:

    Matt Cain &  [Aubrey Huff or Barry Zito]


    Maybe this...

    trade: 
    Youk (1b), Buch, Doubront, Iglesias, Kalish, & Ranaudo

    for:
    Greinke and Randy Wolf
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]Perhaps the most prudent thing to do is to try and dump Crawford for whatever it takes.....Let other teams approach us for trades and listen to their offers - we'd be more in the driver's seat that way - try and accumulate as many top prospects as possible and then use those prospects to obtain a solid starting pitcher....and to bring up the kids who we think will be part of the longer term solution now....and be willing to spend $ in 2013 after taking a break from spending in 2012 (Cole Hammels?)........
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    Cole Hammels... Ha Ha ... Another NL Pitcher coming into a hitters league. How about some over priced National league  hitters also.Roll the dice go with your farm and hope for the best .Millions spent on name players is just throwing money away.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    There will always be someone that will take a bad contract for a bad contract.

    Who thought Toronto could move Vernon Wells and Rios but AA found two teams the Angels and the White Sox.

    AGon I would not want to trade. Beck yes in a heartbeat. Here's my idea.

    If you want to deal Beckett or AGon--there would be many teams to work with.
    The Cubs, Cards and Brewers would be at your door for AGon and Beckett could be moved, perhaps for a 4 or 5 starter and a top prospect. The Yankees might be the team most interested in Beckett. I would take Gardner, Hughes and a top pitching prospect.

    I would want to start with Gaza and Markum, two former AL East pitchers and go from there with the Cubs and Brewers for AGon and some really good top prospects.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]The Mariners do not want Youk or Aviles. I doubt Felix is our best chance to land an ace. We probably have a better chance with the Angels (for Dan Haren or Jered Weaver), or the Brewers for Greinke, of the Giants for Cain or Lincecum. One reason I see them as a better chance is that they have some dead weight salary players on their team that we could take off their hands as partial comp for taking their ace. How's this: Trade: CC, Youk, Buch, Sweeney, Iglesias, Ranaudo, Coyle, & Anderson For: Matt Cain &  [Aubrey Huff or Barry Zito] Maybe this... trade:  Youk (1b), Buch, Doubront, Iglesias, Kalish, & Ranaudo for: Greinke and Randy Wolf
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Matt Cain?  Really?  You do realize that the Giants just gave him a big extension because they intend to actually KEEP him, right?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace? : Cole Hammels... Ha Ha ... Another NL Pitcher coming into a hitters league. How about some over priced National league  hitters also.Roll the dice go with your farm and hope for the best .Millions spent on name players is just throwing money away.
    Posted by donrd4[/QUOTE]

    You're right, no NL pitcher can ever have success in the AL.  I only hope that Curt Schilling, Josh Beckett, and Pedro Martinez can forgive us......
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    Matt Cain?  Really?  You do realize that the Giants just gave him a big extension because they intend to actually KEEP him, right?

    Yes, and I also realize they are desperate for offense, and desperate to rid themselves of the Zito contract.  I know it won't be easy to get Cain, but I think it will be harder to get Felix.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    Then you should realize that they are NOT dealing Cain. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from lardin. Show lardin's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]pedroia or ells..both young players with lots of years left and affordable salaries... thats it no one is going to want A 20 mil power 1b with two homers who plays like he cant wait to get home and nap....and Crawford - yea right.... id rather wait these bad contracts out then give up pedey or ells
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]


    The problem is that while you are waiting for the garbage to leave, and the team to get better, these two players might leave the first chance the get.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    Right...the GM has to divide their team into 4 categories

    1 - Untouchables (ie Pedey, Ellsbury, Ortiz, Bard, Doubrant)

    2 - Must go's (eg Crawford)

    3 -  Would only deal if the right offer was presented (eg Aviles, Youk)

    4 - kids that they need to keep in the system (4A) to get promoted and (4B) to package in a future potential deal
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    What real value to the Red Sox would ONE Ace starter be? Not much. Trading Pedey for Sandy Koufax would be a bad, knee jerk move that would backfire.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from lardin. Show lardin's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]There will always be someone that will take a bad contract for a bad contract. Who thought Toronto could move Vernon Wells and Rios but AA found two teams the Angels and the White Sox. AGon I would not want to trade. Beck yes in a heartbeat. Here's my idea. If you want to deal Beckett or AGon--there would be many teams to work with. The Cubs, Cards and Brewers would be at your door for AGon and Beckett could be moved, perhaps for a 4 or 5 starter and a top prospect. The Yankees might be the team most interested in Beckett. I would take Gardner, Hughes and a top pitching prospect. I would want to start with Gaza and Markum, two former AL East pitchers and go from there with the Cubs and Brewers for AGon and some really good top prospects.
    Posted by MadMc44[/QUOTE]

    The Yankees would not want beckett.  They are trying to get under the luxury tax for 2014 and keep Cano and Granderson.  So trading two inexpensive players for Becket aint gonna happen.  Its also the reason they wont go after Hammels this offseason.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]What real value to the Red Sox would ONE Ace starter be? Not much. Trading Pedey for Sandy Koufax would be a bad, knee jerk move that would backfire.
    Posted by sindarin-erebor[/QUOTE]

    You mean in addition to the 3 Aces we already have???
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    Are you joking? This team's offense is pitiful v. the A's in Fenway and puts us 9 straight zeroes against the vaunted O's, in Fenway, including a position player!

    No ace is going to help this band of scuffing bums!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Who could we package for an ace?

    In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who could we package for an ace? : The reported August 2009 offer for Felix Hernandez was any five of the following eight players: RHP Clay Buchholz RHP Daniel Bard RHP Justin Masterson LHP Nick Hagadone RHP Michael Bowden LHP Felix Doubront OF Josh Reddick SS Yamaico Navarro http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/marinersblog/2009591133_mariners_turned_down_three-way.html At the time, many on this forum blasted the Mariners for turning down the reported offer. However, nearly three years later the offer appears weak, particularly considering Seattle's need for hitting. Josh Reddick and Yamaico Navarro were the only position players in the offer. The current Red Sox prospects have never been ranked as high as many prospects in the rejected August 2009 package. The Sox will need to set their sights lower.
    Posted by hill55[/QUOTE]

    Since Boston refused to make that trade, Bucholtz was called up and won 7 games at the same time he won 17 games in the following season.  Bard became one of the rising bullpen pitcher, Reddick did an ok job backing up Drew, Matterson was traded to Cleveland for a talent hitter V-Mart, Doubrount is one of the team's rising star.  Only three prospects on that list is totally a waste is Navarro, Bowden and Hagadone.  Maybe these three players that we all wished to trade them along with maybe Bucholz and Reddick.

    But how the heck these front office/scouts know which players will go on the rise and which players will flop after the trade is made or trade failed?


     

Share