Who do you want as manager in 2012?

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    In Response to Re: Who do you want as manager in 2012? : Geesh Kim, Francona did the same exact things here and was vilified for mis-managing the team. Also, those same Tito bashers would have been screaming if Francona left Coke in the game as long as Leyland did the other night. I guess good managing is in the eyes of the beholder.
    Posted by Soxdog67


    Jsyk I'm not a Francona basher. I loved having Tito here.

    I think you're right about Coke. But that was because he said he was not going to use Valverde or the other guy (his name escapes me because I don't know the team that well). And he stuck to it. To be honest, I could've used less drama lol, but he said that was what he was going to do, and he did it. This is in no way a comparison to Francona. I'm talking about him separate from that. It just seems like he cares about his players as much as he cares about winning the game. That may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I admire that.

    FTR If he had friendships with the players that put them in the game, and it was criticized, it would be one thing, but he went against his players who wanted to be in the game, to protect them.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

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    Joe Morgan was the best and Jimmy Williams was the worst... anyone that says Keerigan was the worst is just copping out, he does not count.
     
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    Joe Morgan was the best and Jimmy Williams was the worst... anyone that says Keerigan was the worst is just copping out, he does not count.
    Posted by BurritoT
    Jimy Williams wasn't all that bad to the best of my aging recollection. My vote for the worst Sox manager in my lifetime has to go to Zim. How could you lose a 14 game lead with a team featuring Rice, Lynn, Evans, Yaz, Pudge Fisk, Rick Burleson, Dennis Eckersley, Rick Wise, Fergie Jenkins, Bob Stanley, Bill Lee and Bill Campbell?
     
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    In Response to Re: Who do you want as manager in 2012? : Jsyk I'm not a Francona basher. I loved having Tito here. I think you're right about Coke. But that was because he said he was not going to use Valverde or the other guy (his name escapes me because I don't know the team that well). And he stuck to it. To be honest, I could've used less drama lol, but he said that was what he was going to do, and he did it. This is in no way a comparison to Francona. I'm talking about him separate from that. It just seems like he cares about his players as much as he cares about winning the game. That may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I admire that. FTR If he had friendships with the players that put them in the game, and it was criticized, it would be one thing, but he went against his players who wanted to be in the game, to protect them.
    Posted by kimsaysthis


    kim, the point I was trying to make was that, similar to Leyland, Francona protected his players in a similar fashion, but in Boston that is considered bad managing by many. Tito did it more with a pitch count mentality, although Leyland did also, but with a higher threshold for Verlander.

    FTR, the other guy in the Tiger bullpen unavailable was Benoit...but seeing that he had Brad Penny as one of his RH options I can understand better why Leyland stuck with Coke. Although, if Coke gave up a 3-run bomb to Napoli, instead of grounding out to 2B, you think Tiger fans would have been screaming for his head??




     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Who do you want as manager in 2012?

    Soxdog67, I thought I had posted my choice for a new manager. I did post it on another thread. If we're just looking for an upgrade, anyone will do, including J. Fred.
     If I had the choice, I'd be trying to talk Mike Lowell into taking the job, with Eckersley as the pitching coach. If Lowell isn't interested, then Eckersley would be my choice, with Tek as pitching coach. Making a strong bid for Leyland isn't a bad idea either.
    What do you mean, "if Francona ever did that?"  He repeatedly did it, week after week and sometimes day after day. Get real. The collapse this year wasn't totally the fault of Francona.  He certainly contributed, especially early in the year by condoning "quitting on winnable games". My reasons for wanting him fired wern't based on 2011. He has been a horrible manager since he managed his first game. Nice guy, horrible manager.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

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    In Response to Re: Who do you want as manager in 2012?:
    In Response to Re: Who do you want as manager in 2012? : Jimy Williams wasn't all that bad to the best of my aging recollection. My vote for the worst Sox manager in my lifetime has to go to Zim. How could you lose a 14 game lead with a team featuring Rice, Lynn, Evans, Yaz, Pudge Fisk, Rick Burleson, Dennis Eckersley, Rick Wise, Fergie Jenkins, Bob Stanley, Bill Lee and Bill Campbell?
    Posted by carnie

    Your right.... unlucky Sox barely got 1 or 2 good years out of Eck and Cambell before injuries hurt them. I still will never understand how the 1977 starting staff didn't destroy every team they faced.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

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    In Response to Re: Who do you want as manager in 2012? : Your right.... unlucky Sox barely got 1 or 2 good years out of Eck and Cambell before injuries hurt them. I still will never understand how the 1977 starting staff didn't destroy every team they faced.
    Posted by BurritoT


    Would that team have ended up with a better record if Francona was the manager? I think not !
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

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    In Response to Re: Who do you want as manager in 2012?:
    Mike Lowell
    Posted by MrRoarke


    Excellent choice, with Eckersley as pitching coach.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

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    My top candidate that I would like to see in Boston... 1) Eric Wedge Former catcher, Sox player, managerial experience and success in Cleveland. Most importantly, he brings an attitude - he won't be pushed around and he has a great knowledge of the game. He is the manager of the Mariners currently, but they stunk this year. It's possible he could be had.  What do you think about Wedge?  Who is your top candidate?
    Posted by TitleTown11

    When Wedge was with Cleveland, I thought he was the only manager that was worse than Francona.  Wedge is another one that is one step behind J. Fred Muggs in managerial abilities.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

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    Soxdog67, I thought I had posted my choice for a new manager. I did post it on another thread. If we're just looking for an upgrade, anyone will do, including J. Fred.  If I had the choice, I'd be trying to talk Mike Lowell into taking the job, with Eckersley as the pitching coach. If Lowell isn't interested, then Eckersley would be my choice, with Tek as pitching coach. Making a strong bid for Leyland isn't a bad idea either. What do you mean, "if Francona ever did that?"  He repeatedly did it, week after week and sometimes day after day. Get real. The collapse this year wasn't totally the fault of Francona.  He certainly contributed, especially early in the year by condoning "quitting on winnable games". My reasons for wanting him fired wern't based on 2011. He has been a horrible manager since he managed his first game. Nice guy, horrible manager.
    Posted by BOSOX1941


    So what qualifications does Mike Lowell have to become a major league baseball manager, or Eckersley? Varitek as a pitching coach? I think J. Fred is sounding better by the minute.

    On the other hand, that is your opinion and I'll respect it...

    In my mind, a guy like Tony Pena would be a great fit (experience and grit) and if Mike Lowell would like to get his feet wet into coaching, then offer him a bench coach or base coach position. Eckersley as a pitching coach might work but does it make sense to bring in all novice coaches to a team that needs some direction?

    If Varitek wants to take a bullpen coach position then that might work although I believe Tuck did a great job with Salty and if Pena was manager they'd have enough expertise to work with their catchers. But, as a player, it is time for 'Tek to go, along with his buddy Wakefield.





     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Who do you want as manager in 2012?

    In Response to Re: Who do you want as manager in 2012?:
    In Response to Re: Who do you want as manager in 2012? : So what qualifications does Mike Lowell have to become a major league baseball manager, or Eckersley? Varitek as a pitching coach? I think J. Fred is sounding better by the minute. On the other hand, that is your opinion and I'll respect it... In my mind, a guy like Tony Pena would be a great fit (experience and grit) and if Mike Lowell would like to get his feet wet into coaching, then offer him a bench coach or base coach position. Eckersley as a pitching coach might work but does it make sense to bring in all novice coaches to a team that needs some direction? If Varitek wants to take a bullpen coach position then that might work although I believe Tuck did a great job with Salty and if Pena was manager they'd have enough expertise to work with their catchers. But, as a player, it is time for 'Tek to go, along with his buddy Wakefield.
    Posted by Soxdog67


    I appreciate you're respecting my opinion, but I respectfully disagree with the coaching experience factor. Lowell's qualifications include not having a record of failure as a manager.  In my opinion, Francona had experience, and you know how I and many others feel about his managing abilities. So I'd throw experience out the window. Pena would be a great bench coach for Lowell.To me, it makes more sense to bring in novices than it does to bring in a man with a losing record as a manager.
    Then again, I admire the Patriots coach, and he hadn't yet established himself as a winner when they hired him...... They took a chance with Francona, knowing that Schilling came along with the deal. Fortunately they assembled a group of players that you and I could have managed to the WS. lol
    Just my opinion.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dparis37. Show dparis37's posts

    Re: Who do you want as manager in 2012?

    dwight evans
     
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    Re: Who do you want as manager in 2012?

    Lowell was great as a player/leader, but makes no sense as a manager.  No experience and very likely no interest.  Managing the Sox is a gawdawful job even when it pays well, and it is impossible when the Sox have a bad year. 

    FWIW, I'm not so sure the Sox need a strict disciplinarian or some kind of in your face hard-nosed guy like Dick Williams.  I think the starters in the clubhouse syndrome is already fixed thanks to that story in the Globe.  Beckett and Lester will need unbelievable chutzpah to attempt to do that next year.  How hard would it be, for example, for NESN to track their departures from the bench? 

    Also FWIW, I think all they need is a new face, hopefully someone with experience who is tough enough to withstand the ordeal of managing in the Boston fishbowl. 

    The amazing thing about Francona isn't that he left after a horrible September and missing the playoffs again, it's that he lasted so long.  Managing this team was not good for his health or his marriage.  He perservered because he was successful and because the money was good. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from slaaonta71. Show slaaonta71's posts

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     how about another old dodger like the old catcher for the dodgera yagger i think his name was he was a kool cat

     
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    i  hope  the redsox front  office reads some  of theses post like look at some of the old dodger line ups in the late 70,s to earley 80,s kool cats  from that era
     
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    In Response to Re: Who do you want as manager in 2012? :  i am older than you my friend and went to my first Red Sox game to see my lefty idol KEN BRETT in the early 70s....saying Francona was the best manager we ever had is a joke...he was nowhere near the manager Dick Williams was and he reminds me of McNamara with his refusal to sub for aging (Buckner) ballplayers in deference to their experience....also, Sox managers have all been LOUSY...I liked Houk, I liked Morgan when he turned it around..I thought Kennedy was OK, Grady Little I couldnt even understand when he spoke let alone figure out his moves....Francona INHERITED a team that was one braindead move from probablty winning the championship...just like KC Jones won 2 titles after Bill Fitch/Larry Bird turned things around.... is KC Jones the best coach in basketball? i guess you can ask his last team he coached....then again you cant because they disbanded in the WNBA...trust me, our ex-manager is going nowhere unless he is hired to babysit a stacked club full of vets like he did in Boston....he wasnt a manager, he was a caretaker
    Posted by georom4

    I said he was the best manager in my memory - I remember watching games in 1984, but I was too young to have an appreciation of Ralph Houk's managerial abilities.  But what does it say that you have to go back 27 years to speak well of a Sox manager?  No matter who the Sox choose next, do you really think you're going to like him?



     
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    In Response to Re: Who do you want as manager in 2012?:
    In Response to Who do you want as manager in 2012? : When Wedge was with Cleveland, I thought he was the only manager that was worse than Francona.  Wedge is another one that is one step behind J. Fred Muggs in managerial abilities.
    Posted by BOSOX1941


    Why do you say that? 

    per Wikipedia

    Cleveland Indians

    On October 29, 2002, Wedge was named the 39th manager of the Cleveland Indians. Over his first three years as manager, the Indians improved steadily from fourth place in the American League Central Division with a 68–94 record in 2003, to 80–82 and third place in 2004 and to 93–69 and second place in 2005. The 93 wins in 2005 were the eighth most in the more than hundred-year history of the franchise and the team narrowly missed qualifying for the playoffs for the first time since 2001 when they were eliminated on the last day of the season. In the American League Manager of the Yearballoting for 2005, Wedge finished as runner-up to Ozzie Guillén.[6]

    The 2006 season was a disappointing one for Wedge and the Indians. Entering the season, they were expected to compete for the division title, but got off to a poor start and were essentially out of the race by mid-season, trailing the division-leading Detroit Tigers at the All-Star break by 18½ games. They finished the season in fourth place with a 78–84 record, 18 games behind the Central Division champion, Minnesota Twins.

    Wedge and the Indians had more success in the 2007 season going 96–66 and winning the Central Division Title for the first time since 2001. Wedge then led the Indians to beat the Yankees in four games to win the ALDS, and moved on to play the Boston Red Sox in the ALCS, where they lost in 7 games. Wedge received The Sporting News Manager of the Year Award and the MLB Manager of the Year Award for the American League in 2007.

    On September 30, 2009, the Cleveland Indians announced that Eric Wedge would not be retained as manager after the season ended.[7]

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: Who do you want as manager in 2012?

    dave martinez

    pete mackanin
     
    tony pena

    sandy alomar jr.

    this is not in order...i just like these guy's....
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

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    In Response to Re: Who do you want as manager in 2012?:
    In Response to Re: Who do you want as manager in 2012? : Why do you say that?  per Wikipedia Cleveland Indians On October 29, 2002, Wedge was named the 39th manager of the Cleveland Indians. Over his first three years as manager, the Indians improved steadily from fourth place in the American League Central Division with a 68–94 record in 2003, to 80–82 and third place in 2004 and to 93–69 and second place in 2005. The 93 wins in 2005 were the eighth most in the more than hundred-year history of the franchise and the team narrowly missed qualifying for the playoffs for the first time since 2001 when they were eliminated on the last day of the season. In the American League  Manager of the Year balloting for 2005, Wedge finished as runner-up to  Ozzie Guillén . [ 6 ] The 2006 season was a disappointing one for Wedge and the Indians. Entering the season, they were expected to compete for the division title, but got off to a poor start and were essentially out of the race by mid-season, trailing the division-leading  Detroit Tigers  at the All-Star break by 18½ games. They finished the season in fourth place with a 78–84 record, 18 games behind the Central Division champion,  Minnesota Twins . Wedge and the Indians had more success in the 2007 season going 96–66 and winning the Central Division Title for the first time since 2001. Wedge then led the Indians to beat the Yankees in four games to win the ALDS, and moved on to play the Boston Red Sox in the ALCS, where they lost in 7 games. Wedge received  The Sporting News Manager of the Year Award  and the MLB  Manager of the Year Award  for the American League in 2007. On September 30, 2009, the Cleveland Indians announced that Eric Wedge would not be retained as manager after the season ended. [ 7 ]
    Posted by TitleTown11


    You know, I am relying on a small sample of games that I saw. And that's not really fair. But it's funny that when I mention that Francona never got better than a 4th place vote for manager of the year, his minions say that the MOTY award means nothing. I guess it means something for Wedge. I shouldn't have passed judgement on him so hastily. I personally would not hire him, but some might.. I believe the Indians had some decent talent during Wedge's rein, especially pitchers. So I'm changing my mind and putting him ahead of J. Fred Muggs, but not by much.
     
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    In Response to Who do you want as manager in 2012?:
    My top candidate that I would like to see in Boston... 1) Eric Wedge Former catcher, Sox player, managerial experience and success in Cleveland. Most importantly, he brings an attitude - he won't be pushed around and he has a great knowledge of the game. He is the manager of the Mariners currently, but they stunk this year. It's possible he could be had.  What do you think about Wedge?  Who is your top candidate?
    Posted by TitleTown11

    The Mariners could ask for Jacoby Ellsbury in compensation because Eric Wedge has two years remaining on his Seattle contract.

    Lou Pinella had only one year left on his Seattle contract when Tampa Bay traded 28-year-old Randy Winn, a 4.5 WAR* All Star in 2002, to Seattle for Pinella.

    The 28-year-old Ellsbury posted a 9.4 WAR this year in his first All Star season.

    * Wins Above Replacement as reported at FanGraphs
     
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    Re: Who do you want as manager in 2012?

    I don't want somebody that hasn't managed (in MLB) before....not keen on someone that hasn't managed successfully before (though Francona and Torre did ok once they got good teams).  Probably can't have someone under contract, though Madden and Leyland would be great.

    That doesn't leave a lot, does it? 

    The Pedroia concept - which would never happen - is fascinating....I'd rather him as player/manager than some of the retreads that get jobs these days.
     
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    In Response to Re: Who do you want as manager in 2012? : I agree. It's only one step up from saying I want Jennifer Love Hewitt to manage.Fisk knows baseball and has played of course, but other than that, it's just a name. He's never managed, so you have no idea how good a manager he'd be. It's just a superficial statement based on some tough-sounding talk Fisk has made.  Heck, at least with JLH in the dugout during games, it would keep the Frat House boys from bolting to the clubhouse during games.  At least posters throwing around names like Wedge and LaRussa can base their suggestions on a track record as a manager.
    Posted by royf19


    Hilarious!Laughing
     
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    In Response to Re: Who do you want as manager in 2012?:
    Soxdog67, I thought I had posted my choice for a new manager. I did post it on another thread. If we're just looking for an upgrade, anyone will do, including J. Fred.  If I had the choice, I'd be trying to talk Mike Lowell into taking the job, with Eckersley as the pitching coach. If Lowell isn't interested, then Eckersley would be my choice, with Tek as pitching coach. Making a strong bid for Leyland isn't a bad idea either. What do you mean, "if Francona ever did that?"  He repeatedly did it, week after week and sometimes day after day. Get real. The collapse this year wasn't totally the fault of Francona.  He certainly contributed, especially early in the year by condoning "quitting on winnable games". My reasons for wanting him fired wern't based on 2011. He has been a horrible manager since he managed his first game. Nice guy, horrible manager.
    Posted by BOSOX1941

    '41, while the names you mentioned are all interesting, they have one thing in common: Aside from Leyland, that have exactly the same amount of managerial experience as I do.

    Just because they were great players doesn't mean they know how to manage. (See Williams, Theodore Samuel).

     
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    A J Hinch
     
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    In Response to Re: Who do you want as manager in 2012?:
    In Response to Re: Who do you want as manager in 2012? : I appreciate you're respecting my opinion, but I respectfully disagree with the coaching experience factor. Lowell's qualifications include not having a record of failure as a manager.  In my opinion, Francona had experience, and you know how I and many others feel about his managing abilities. So I'd throw experience out the window. Pena would be a great bench coach for Lowell.To me, it makes more sense to bring in novices than it does to bring in a man with a losing record as a manager. Posted by BOSOX1941


    Of course everyone has an opinion, but the only thing that has actually been proven lately is that the last time the Red Sox brought in "a man with a losing record as a manager" be proceeded to win the first World Series championship in a century, add another one a couple years later and simply put together the most successful managerial career known to the Red Sox in the modern era.

    You are allowed to despise the man all you want, but brushing all that off with "anyone could have managed those teams to WS wins" is simply ridiculous if you really believe that.  If the Sox had kept Grady Little, he would have pinch run for Ortiz in Game 4 against the Yankees early enough to keep him from hitting the game-winning HR.  Do you remember all the tiny things that had to fall exactly right in '04 to win?  I think ANY change, including plugging in Dick Williams, could have cause the Sox to lose in '04.

    I am not a Francona apologist, thought he was a terrible in game manager most nights and strongly felt it was time for him to go.  However, he was the right fit when he came on, and pretending he did absolutely nothing despite his record is ludicrous.

    And sorry, but someone who hates a guy so strongly that he has to permanently keep a nasty slur about Francona as his signature has zero credibility when it comes to reasonable analysis involving the guy.
     
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