Ortiz or Drew/Cameron/McDonald?
If you say Ortiz, you disagree with the overwhelming majority of posters on this website. Over the next nine games the majority would much rather sit Ortiz and use Larry/Moe/Curley. Or sit AGon and use Ortiz.
Who do you want in your lineup?
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Who do you want in your lineup?
posted at 6/24/2011 12:13 PM EDT
- maxbialystock
- Posts: 4277
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Re: Who do you want in your lineup?
posted at 6/24/2011 12:16 PM EDT
- ---The--Babe----
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In Response to Who do you want in your lineup?:Ortiz or Drew/Cameron/McDonald? If you say Ortiz, you disagree with the overwhelming majority of posters on this website. Over the next nine games the majority would much rather sit Ortiz and use Larry/Moe/Curley.Posted by maxbialystock
Are you insinuating that ortiz should play right field?
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Re: Who do you want in your lineup?
posted at 6/24/2011 12:17 PM EDT
- SpacemanEephus
- Posts: 10478
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In Response to Who do you want in your lineup?:Ortiz or Drew/Cameron/McDonald? If you say Ortiz, you disagree with the overwhelming majority of posters on this website. Over the next nine games the majority would much rather sit Ortiz and use Larry/Moe/Curley.
Posted by maxbialystockWay to twist the arguement Max. You should go into politics. There isn't one person on the board who would say that they would prefer Moe/Larry/Curley to David Ortiz. The issue is about moving Gonzalez to the outfield: the injury risk and/or defensive downgrade at 2 positions. -
Re: Who do you want in your lineup?
posted at 6/24/2011 12:59 PM EDT
- moonslav59
- Posts: 34407
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Ask the question this way: who do want running in to catch a sinking liner in RF?
Drew/Cam/DMac
or
Papi or AGon?
To me, it's a close call.
Papi at 1B instead of AGon may hand the opps 2-3 hits over 9 games.
AGon in RF over Drew/Cam may hand the opps 2-3 hits in 9 as well.
That's maybe 5 hits over 9 games.
My guess is Papi or AGon would probably get about 5 more hits than a Drew/Cam combo over 40 PAs in 9 games.
The risk of injury is an issue, even if you tell AGon to play like a statue.
I think it's a close call. -
Re: Who do you want in your lineup?
posted at 6/24/2011 1:07 PM EDT
- Hammah29r2
- Posts: 1940
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this first series with the Pierats seems like a toss up. play agon 2 out of 3 at first and get papi atleast one start. gotta consider that this team just got beat 2 outta three from the padres.............oh wait. -
Re: Who do you want in your lineup?
posted at 6/24/2011 1:18 PM EDT
- ZILLAGOD
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I am not a fan of playing people out of position for the sake of extra offense.
Don't forget both teams have to play by the same rules, their pitchers are batting also.
Use your best player at his best position and unfortunately this means Ortiz waits for his one chance to pitch hit per game,however I think another option is Gonzalez gets a rare day off ( at most two) and Papi tries to remember how to catch a ball. I'd rather keep Drew in the outfield where he can at least earn some of his pay with defense and sacrifice a little offense. -
Re: Who do you want in your lineup?
posted at 6/24/2011 1:18 PM EDT
- wherescreamingcomesfrom
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It is a close call, the defensive issue is huge.
That said I think Papi and Agon could be better for more than 4-5 hits over what Cam/Drew/Mac gives you in right. Those three have been a black hole lately. But I think we also have to consider (beyond the number of hits over what you get from Drew/Cam/Mac) the quality of the hits, i.e. slugging %. The real question becomes how many more runs will Papi/Agon produce over the other possibility. I think there is a chance that run production could be significantly larger, especially if Papi hits a couple out, and greater than the fall off in defense.
Still, as long as they get Papi some playing time (whether as a straight sub for Agon in 2 games and pinch hitting in the others, or with Agon) I'm okay with either decision since there is obviously no clear and good answer. -
Re: Who do you want in your lineup?
posted at 6/24/2011 1:52 PM EDT
- moonslav59
- Posts: 34407
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5 more hits in 40 is a .125 BA differential.
Papi is batting .313
Drew is batting .228
Like I said, it's a close call. -
Re: Who do you want in your lineup?
posted at 6/24/2011 2:07 PM EDT
- splendidsplinterteddyballgame
- Posts: 1528
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I don't ever want to see Cam or D-Mac in the lineup under ANY circumstances. They both suck! They are automatic outs. Pathetic! -
Re: Who do you want in your lineup?
posted at 6/24/2011 2:16 PM EDT
- --the--yazzer
- Posts: 298
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hey max and spaceman,
quit dissing the 3 stooges. -
Re: Who do you want in your lineup?
posted at 6/24/2011 2:19 PM EDT
- betterredthandead
- Posts: 759
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Having AGon play RF is sound judgment. To make sure he doesn't get hurt exerting himself making unfamiliar movements, have him draw an imaginary circle of 5 yards in circumference and tell him not to step outside the circle. -
Re: Who do you want in your lineup?
posted at 6/24/2011 2:24 PM EDT
- --the--yazzer
- Posts: 298
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here's another way too ask the same qustion-----
who would you least like to see get injured in RF--DREW, CAMERON OR AGON? -
Re: Who do you want in your lineup?
posted at 6/24/2011 2:32 PM EDT
- attic-dan
- Posts: 1001
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In Response to Re: Who do you want in your lineup?:I am not a fan of playing people out of position for the sake of extra offense. Don't forget both teams have to play by the same rules, their pitchers are batting also. Use your best player at his best position and unfortunately this means Ortiz waits for his one chance to pitch hit per game,however I think another option is Gonzalez gets a rare day off ( at most two) and Papi tries to remember how to catch a ball. I'd rather keep Drew in the outfield where he can at least earn some of his pay with defense and sacrifice a little offense.
Posted by ZILLAGOD
To me this is the obvious solution, I just don't see the urgency in moving people all around, the Sox will be fine. The Sox don't need to go 9-0 here a 5-4 trip will do just fine. -
Re: Who do you want in your lineup?
posted at 6/24/2011 2:35 PM EDT
- maxbialystock
- Posts: 4277
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All the arguments against shifting AGon to right so that Ortiz can play first make sense. I just wanted to show the effect on the lineup in the starkest possible terms. On espn there is an article about just how bad Drew is these days--hits .204 with RISP, hits .150 with two outs, etc. And Cameron/McDonald are a little worse.
Ortiz at 1B is not playing "out of position." He did plenty of playing 1B for the Twins and has done a little with the Sox and acquitted himself decently. I don't think scouts, coaches, or managers say, "that kid's got great hands and great lateral movement, just right for playing first base." Nope. They say, "that kid can really hit, but he can't field that well and is too slow for the outfield. Let's make him a firstbaseman."
AGon in right field is a reach and a risk, I agree. But he has played there before and does have pretty good hands and I suspect a decent arm. Not much range, which might help him avoid injuring himself. He'll play closer to the line and maybe even the back wall. Ellsbury can cheat toward right center.
Besides, it's just one game to see whether this can work. -
Re: Who do you want in your lineup?
posted at 6/24/2011 2:35 PM EDT
- betterredthandead
- Posts: 759
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AGon has a great arm, which all know. Why not have him pitch in place of Wastefield and Slackey, so Ortiz can play first and Drew and Cameron and Mac can platoon in RF and play good defense and sacrifice instead of swinging their impotent bats.
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Re: Who do you want in your lineup?
posted at 6/24/2011 2:55 PM EDT
- --the--yazzer
- Posts: 298
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btw, i just saw the SOX starting line-up for tonight's game. let me just say that #'s 1-4 hitters better get to bashing because there's an endless black hole from 5-9. and that black hole doesn't even include drew. -
Re: Who do you want in your lineup?
posted at 6/24/2011 2:55 PM EDT
- Alibiike
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AG should not play RF. LF would be the more prudent option, and I'm sure he is more than willing to play it to get Papi in the line-up. Our defense is weakened considerably at those two positions (range wise) but would it not be worth it to have the additional HR potential on offense?
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Re: Who do you want in your lineup?
posted at 6/24/2011 3:04 PM EDT
- maxbialystock
- Posts: 4277
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In Response to Re: Who do you want in your lineup?:AG should not play RF. LF would be the more prudent option, and I'm sure he is more than willing to play it to get Papi in the line-up. Our defense is weakened considerably at those two positions (range wise) but would it not be worth it to have the additional HR potential on offense?
Posted by Alibiike
Actually, he's played RF before and told Francona that's where he wants to play.
Tonight, Ortiz isn't playing, nor his Drew, nor is Reddick. Pirates starter is a lefty, so, not including the pitcher, Ellsbury and Gonzalez are the only two lefties in the lineup tonight. -
Re: Who do you want in your lineup?
posted at 6/24/2011 3:07 PM EDT
- maxbialystock
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In Response to Re: Who do you want in your lineup?:5 more hits in 40 is a .125 BA differential. Papi is batting .313 Drew is batting .228 Like I said, it's a close call.
Posted by moonslav59
Actually, Drew is .140 with RISP, so I don't think it's a close call. -
Re: Who do you want in your lineup?
posted at 6/24/2011 3:10 PM EDT
- RedSoxKimmi
- Posts: 1511
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In Response to Re: Who do you want in your lineup?:Ask the question this way: who do want running in to catch a sinking liner in RF? Drew/Cam/DMac or Papi or AGon? To me, it's a close call. Papi at 1B instead of AGon may hand the opps 2-3 hits over 9 games. AGon in RF over Drew/Cam may hand the opps 2-3 hits in 9 as well. That's maybe 5 hits over 9 games. My guess is Papi or AGon would probably get about 5 more hits than a Drew/Cam combo over 40 PAs in 9 games. The risk of injury is an issue, even if you tell AGon to play like a statue. I think it's a close call.
Posted by moonslav59
Good post Moon. To me, it comes down to whether the offensive upgrade is larger than the defensive downgrade, and I don't think it is. Then when you factor in the injury risk, it's just not worth it to me.
Also, if either Papi or Gonzalez sits, that gives the team one of the best possible bats of the bench in a key situation, if needed. -
Re: Who do you want in your lineup?
posted at 6/24/2011 3:11 PM EDT
- patsfan93311
- Posts: 138
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In Response to Re: Who do you want in your lineup?:I don't ever want to see Cam or D-Mac in the lineup under ANY circumstances. They both suck! They are automatic outs. Pathetic!
Posted by splendidsplinterteddyballgame
Agreed! You've got Reddick available. What good is it to have guys with a batting average just above .100 play against lefties just because they're righthanded batters? Give me a break. I'll take Reddick against lefties everyday instead of the has beens. Time to hang 'em up Cameron and McDonald.
Loyalty is good but it doesn't guarantee wins. And batting righties against lefties doesn't guarantee hits, especially with those two guys! -
Re: Who do you want in your lineup?
posted at 6/24/2011 3:19 PM EDT
- --the--yazzer
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unfortunately patsfan, the SOX don't have belichick, they have 'cona. -
Re: Who do you want in your lineup?
posted at 6/24/2011 4:23 PM EDT
- odessagolfer
- Posts: 51
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In lieu of Cameron or Drew, I would give Reddick a shot. He is hot and I think he can handle lefty pitching. I cringe whenever Drew or Cam come to bat. The few hits Mike has look like he's hitting in spite of himself!
He swings late and gets the end of the bat on the ball and it manages to squeeze its way through the infield.
I keep thinking that Drew is going to break out, but it just never happens. HE TRIES TO PULL EVERYTHING.
I posted here a couple of weeks ago as to why I thought Papi was hitting so well and then he admitted that he was taking a lesson from how AG was hitting and going with the pitch.
If Drew were to even consider it, he would get some hits. He still has a great eye, but invariably he will try to pull a pitch that is headed for the 3rd base dugout. He makes me crazy!
So, I vote for Reddick.
Just my thoughts. -
Re: Who do you want in your lineup?
posted at 6/24/2011 4:56 PM EDT
- JJAS
- Posts: 2
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Cam and D-Mac in the lineup = 2 outs
sit ORTIZ AND USE AGon. -
Re: Who do you want in your lineup?
posted at 6/24/2011 5:15 PM EDT
- craze4sox
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In Response to Who do you want in your lineup?:Ortiz or Drew/Cameron/McDonald? If you say Ortiz, you disagree with the overwhelming majority of posters on this website. Over the next nine games the majority would much rather sit Ortiz and use Larry/Moe/Curley. Or sit AGon and use Ortiz.
Posted by maxbialystock
This is huge decision resting soley on our managements shoulders if AGon plays the OF and is injured.