Who is Üntouchable"?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Who is Üntouchable"?

    To me, nobody is untouchable. Offer me better compensation than I am giving up, and I'll be for that trade.
     
    Here's a rough sketch of my idea of who is closest to being untouchable, based on skillset, potential for improvement, years of team control, cost of contract, and positional needs of this team:

    Keepers: Bradley, Barnes, Middlebrooks, & Bogaerts (blocked by Pedro?)
     Papi (at least for 2012)

    Close to Keepers: Pedroia, Buchholtz, Aceves, Doubront, Morales, Lavarnway, Brentz, Ciriaco (see Bogaerts)

    Worth Keeping?: Swihart (blocked?), Cecchini (blocked?), Iggy/Marreo (blocked?) 

    Maybe Package in a Trade: Sweeney, Padilla, Bard, Nava, Cook, Tazawa, Albers, Miller, Atchison, Melancon, Mortensen, Pods, Kalish, Ranaudo, Jacobs, Anderson, Gomez, Owens, Britton, T. Shaw, and other prospects not listed here.

    Explore trades but unlikely Dealt: Ellsbury, Beckett, Lester, AGon, Ross, Aviles, Salty, Shoppach, Punto

    Salary Dumps: Crawford, Lackey, Dice-K
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    In Response to Who is Üntouchable"?:
    To me, nobody is untouchable. Offer me better compensation than I am giving up, and I'll be for that trade.   Here's a rough sketch of my idea of who is closest to being untouchable, based on skillset, potential for improvement, years of team control, cost of contract, and positional needs of this team: Keepers: Bradley, Barnes, Middlebrooks, & Bogaerts (blocked by Pedro?)  Papi (at least for 2012) Close to Keepers: Pedroia, Buchholtz, Aceves, Doubront, Morales, Lavarnway, Brentz, Ciriaco (see Bogaerts) Worth Keeping?: Swihart (blocked?), Cecchini (blocked?), Iggy/Marreo (blocked?)  Maybe Package in a Trade: Sweeney, Padilla, Bard, Nava, Cook, Tazawa, Albers, Miller, Atchison, Melancon, Mortensen, Pods, Kalish, Ranaudo, Jacobs, Anderson, Gomez, Owens, Britton, T. Shaw, a nd other prospects not listed here. Explore trades but unlikely Dealt: Ellsbury, Beckett, Lester, AGon, Ross, Aviles, Salty, Shoppach, Punto Salary Dumps: Crawford, Lackey, Dice-K
    Posted by moonslav59



    I like Ciriaco but I'd trade him in a heartbeat. He is a reserve middle infielder at best. A sell high candidate if I ever saw one. I love that play he made yesterday in the hole though. What a great play diving and making the throw to 2nd.

    Middlebrooks is probably the biggest mis projection I've ever made on a baseball prospect. You have to see some players play before really understanding what they care capable of. I love that kid's swing. And when he does hit it, the ball screams off his bat. He is as fundementally correct as any hitting propsect that I've seen for a while. I think as he develops more patience at the plate he will get even better. Opposing pitchers are going to stop putting the ball over the plate with him the way he is doing damage. I see some problems for a while with his average dropping but over time his OBP should zoom to .380, .390 even. He is a guy every team would want.

    No way I trade Swihart but Brentz could be had for a decent return. Great power hitting prospect but not likely to be a star to me. His contact rates and pitch selection are not ideal.

    A strong case could be made for selling Morales high. He should be worth quite a bit in this year's market. Texas?

    Lots of good discussion items here.
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    In Response to Re: Who is Üntouchable"?:
    I like Ciriaco but I'd trade him in a heartbeat. He is a reserve middle infielder at best. A sell high candidate if I ever saw one In fact, it is Aviles who is a reserve middle infiedler, at best. Ciriaco is the real deal for any GM that values a natural SS who can actually play the defense that should be required to be a MLB everyday SS.
    Posted by TrotterNixon

    He is a AAAA ball player and if any GM felt he was a natural SS he would have gotten a MLB job before he was 26 years old.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    In Response to Re: Who is Üntouchable"?:
    In Response to Who is Üntouchable"? : I like Ciriaco but I'd trade him in a heartbeat. He is a reserve middle infielder at best. A sell high candidate if I ever saw one. I love that play he made yesterday in the hole though. What a great play diving and making the throw to 2nd. Middlebrooks is probably the biggest mis projection I've ever made on a baseball prospect. You have to see some players play before really understanding what they care capable of. I love that kid's swing. And when he does hit it, the ball screams off his bat. He is as fundementally correct as any hitting propsect that I've seen for a while. I think as he develops more patience at the plate he will get even better. Opposing pitchers are going to stop putting the ball over the plate with him the way he is doing damage. I see some problems for a while with his average dropping but over time his OBP should zoom to .380, .390 even. He is a guy every team would want. No way I trade Swihart but Brentz could be had for a decent return. Great power hitting prospect but not likely to be a star to me. His contact rates and pitch selection are not ideal. A strong case could be made for selling Morales high. He should be worth quite a bit in this year's market. Texas? Lots of good discussion items here.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom


    Ciriaco is one of the few I would not deal!  I think you're dead wrong about him "being a reserve middle infielder at best." WAY OFF!

    I hold onto Buch, A-Gon (contract), Pedey, Middy (Already made the deal to keep him), Ells, much of the pen, & Papi, & Ross. Oh.... & Ciriaco!
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    God!  I hate agreeing with Softy!!!!  :(
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    OOOP!  BUT....   Aviles is no bum!!!  He is a decent reserve middle infielder though with some pop!


    p.s.  Softy is a total loser!  :)
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    CAN WE TRADE THE SOFT ONE????

    There has to be something wrong with the guy!  Especially with how much he loves Obama!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    To me, nobody is untouchable. Offer me better compensation than I am giving up, and I'll be for that trade.

    That's about right.  I'd start my untouchable list by figuring out who is going to play which positions over the next 6 years.  The more overlap you have (Middlebrooks, Cecchini, Boegarts), the more tradeable they are.  Sometimes you get lucky and a guy like Bradley could step in just as Ellsbury leaves.  Then you're golden.
     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    Sometimes teams really do miss out on productive everyday players and there really is such a thing as a late bloomer. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Pedro Ciriaco as a legitimate contributor. For a recent example, people said the same about Josh Reddick and he's proving his detractors wrong with an All-Star season in Oakland.
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    In Response to Re: Who is Üntouchable"?:
    Sometimes teams really do miss out on productive everyday players and there really is such a thing as a late bloomer. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Pedro Ciriaco as a legitimate contributor. For a recent example, people said the same about Josh Reddick and he's proving his detractors wrong with an All-Star season in Oakland.
    Posted by davidap


    Davidap, I don't want to discount that possibility. It is certainly possible. I like Ciraco's defense. He has some speed and range. I'm looking at his career numbers and he has been fairly solid defensively which is certainly the priority at SS. I think he is a mlb player. It is certainly possible he is a late bloomer. He did hit .231 in AAA last year though with less than a 1.7% walk rate. An OBP of around .243. His Slugging was .300 with a wRC+ of 40. That is God awful pop and his walk rate has always been horrendous at every level.

    His BAPIP is around .411 in the majors this year and there is no way that is sustainable. He is more likely a .260-.270 hitter on average with very little pop. With his defense that is not bad. He could be a mlb level starting SS. It certainly is possible.

    But the lack of pop in his bat is really bad. He has very little power. He is a case study of a guy who is going to get pitched to. No one is going to want to take any chances in walking this guy. He does very little damage at the plate. He probably is not our guy at SS but he is a nice guy to have as an infield reserve IMO.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxforlife22. Show soxforlife22's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    untouchables in MLB: Pedroia, Middlebrooks, Gonzalez (contract), Buchholz, Doubront, Lester (until he performs better and could get a decent return)

    untouchables in MiLB: Bogaerts, Barnes, Bradley, Swihart, Ranaudo, Britton, Owens (the last four are on the list because of their lack of results but great talent)

    I chose to leave Lavarnway off this list because if the Red Sox decide that Saltalamacchia is their catcher of the future, Lavarnway is expendable.

    Many players are left off the list because they are blocked, or there is a plethora of players at that certain position.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    Theoretically , at least , no one should ever be untouchable. Can always be overwhelmed by an offer.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    I hold onto Lester until July 2013 and see if he doesn't dramatically improve. Sox need an Ace, a leader, a teacher, a role model ... perhaps Lester benefits from having a Roy Haliday or Cliff Lee type walk through the door. Beckett fails at this and he needs to be moved.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    In response to "Re: Who is Üntouchable"?":
    He is a AAAA ball player and if any GM felt he was a natural SS he would have gotten a MLB job before he was 26 years old Well said, Aviles is a bum. Posted by TrotterNixon
    If Ciriaco has the career Aviles has had he would really have to overachieve.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from lasitter. Show lasitter's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    If we deal Shop we definitely need to bring up Lava for DH in case Ortiz walks. That would represent a major salary benefit for us.

    I'd also like to see him get some time behind the plate for development purposes.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from eggplants. Show eggplants's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

                          Bill James and the whole Baseball Ops Dept. What'll it take for Larry to hit the flush button on these guys? Maybe it's John's call. John Henry sell this team.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    I like Ciriaco but I'd trade him in a heartbeat. He is a reserve middle infielder at best. A sell high candidate if I ever saw one. I love that play he made yesterday in the hole though. What a great play diving and making the throw to 2nd.

    He'sonly 26. He's had decent numbers beyond just this year. I do like Bogaerts better and listed him higher than Pedro, but until Bogaerts is ready, I think we should keep Pedro. As I said last winter, this team is not poised to play Iggy unless someone gets hurt. We are paying him over $2M a year to play AAA ball. I still think Iggy is a good MLB SS right now, but he's the odd man out and maybe highly valued by some GMs today.

    Middlebrooks is probably the biggest mis projection I've ever made on a baseball prospect. You have to see some players play before really understanding what they care capable of. I love that kid's swing. And when he does hit it, the ball screams off his bat. He is as fundementally correct as any hitting propsect that I've seen for a while. I think as he develops more patience at the plate he will get even better. Opposing pitchers are going to stop putting the ball over the plate with him the way he is doing damage. I see some problems for a while with his average dropping but over time his OBP should zoom to .380, .390 even. He is a guy every team would want.

    Same here. I actually liked Cecchini as our 3Bman of the future more than Middlebrooks, but I knew he was farther away. 

    No way I trade Swihart but Brentz could be had for a decent return. Great power hitting prospect but not likely to be a star to me. His contact rates and pitch selection are not ideal.

    Neither were Middlebrooks. With Ellsbury gone in 1.3 years, and Kalish questionable as a ML OFér. I'd try to keep Brentz, unless a team demands him as part of a package to land us a top qualityu starter under team control for more than 2 years.

    A strong case could be made for selling Morales high. He should be worth quite a bit in this year's market. Texas?

    I thought of this too, but I think Morales has too much potential to become a 2-3 slot starter for us, and that is our biggest weakness right now. Doubront might fetch more in trade, but he shows promise as well. With Lackey coming back next year, one of these guys will porobably be in the pen unless we move Beckett.
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    In Response to Re: Who is Üntouchable"?:
    If we deal Shop we definitely need to bring up Lava for DH in case Ortiz walks. That would represent a major salary benefit for us. I'd also like to see him get some time behind the plate for development purposes.
    Posted by lasitter

    Nobody has answered the question I posed on another thread: how much time can Lava be brought up before the September call-up date and not lose a year of team control/service on the back-end (prime year) of his time in Boston?

    Is it really worth trading Shoppach to bring up Lava a month early and lose a full year of Lava at age 30 or so?

    One month for one full year? (Lava would likely only play vs LHPs as a catcher anyways- not his strongest area of offense.)

    Shoppach might be a waiver deal candidate the day Lava is eligible to play MLB without losing a year of service.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    In Response to Who is Üntouchable"?:
    To me, nobody is untouchable. Offer me better compensation than I am giving up, and I'll be for that trade.   Here's a rough sketch of my idea of who is closest to being untouchable, based on skillset, potential for improvement, years of team control, cost of contract, and positional needs of this team: Keepers: Bradley, Barnes, Middlebrooks, & Bogaerts (blocked by Pedro?)  Papi (at least for 2012) Close to Keepers: Pedroia, Buchholtz, Aceves, Doubront, Morales, Lavarnway, Brentz, Ciriaco (see Bogaerts) Worth Keeping?: Swihart (blocked?), Cecchini (blocked?), Iggy/Marreo (blocked?)  Maybe Package in a Trade: Sweeney, Padilla, Bard, Nava, Cook, Tazawa, Albers, Miller, Atchison, Melancon, Mortensen, Pods, Kalish, Ranaudo, Jacobs, Anderson, Gomez, Owens, Britton, T. Shaw, a nd other prospects not listed here. Explore trades but unlikely Dealt: Ellsbury, Beckett, Lester, AGon, Ross, Aviles, Salty, Shoppach, Punto Salary Dumps: Crawford, Lackey, Dice-K
    Posted by moonslav59

    Bogaerts is projecting as someone who they might move to 3B or even left field.  Soxprospects says that he is "not likely to stick at SS"

     
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