Who is Üntouchable"?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    In Response to Re: Who is Üntouchable"?:
    [QUOTE]If Ciriaco has the career Aviles has had he would really have to overachieve The career Aviles has had is a bum's career. Ciriaco has already done better than that.
    Posted by TrotterNixon[/QUOTE]

    I agree that you were way off on Iggy.



     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    In Response to Re: Who is Üntouchable"?:
    [QUOTE]If Ciriaco has the career Aviles has had he would really have to overachieve The career Aviles has had is a bum's career. Ciriaco has already done better than that.
    Posted by TrotterNixon[/QUOTE]

    Oh, now it's OK to use a 69 PA or 109 PA sample size to judge Ciriaco better than Aviles, but using Ellsbury's 732 PA sample size of 2011 or 2300+ career sample size to judge him better than Coco was premature.

    Silly clown.

    I love Pedro's fielding, and I value SS fielding highly, but Aviles is not as bad as you want him to be in the field, and you bashed Mikey for having a AAA OBP. Did you know Pedro's AAA OBP is .281? Does that make him AA worthy? 8 seasons in the minors, and Ciriaco has a .299 minor league OBP. Maybe his scattered 109 PA MLB sample size shows more to you than his over 3,500 PAs in the minors.

    BTW, I'm fine with having a .280 OBP from our SS, if he is a great fielder. I argued for Iggy over Aviles this spring, and still think Mikey is best used as our utility IFér, but annoiunting Pedro our SS of the future is a bit premature. He deserves a long look, but you are again jumping the gun, just as you bashed Sox fans for doing with Jake 5 years ago.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    Why people want to trade Ciriaco if he have some values in him?  Who will Boston get?  couple mid-prospects?  Garza? Dempster? etc?

    Forget it man, I dont want any of these guys above.  Trade Aviles or Prunto before you trade Ciraico!!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    In Response to Re: Who is Üntouchable"?:
    [QUOTE]I like Ciriaco but I'd trade him in a heartbeat. He is a reserve middle infielder at best. A sell high candidate if I ever saw one In fact, it is Aviles who is a reserve middle infiedler, at best. Ciriaco is the real deal for any GM that values a natural SS who can actually play the defense that should be required to be a MLB everyday SS.
    Posted by TrotterNixon[/QUOTE]

    He made a play in Sunday's game no one makes on this team or no one has made on this team in a very long time...an athletic diving stop in the hole at SS and super quick turn and throw for a big time FC that stopped a Yankee rally from starting. I don't care if his past is part-time minor league infielder, his present is he's emerging as a 26-yr-old SS with skills that the Sox desperately need from a real SS. Say bye-bye to Mike Aviles or make him the utility guy he was last year. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    In Response to Re: Who is Üntouchable"?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who is Üntouchable"? : Nobody has answered the question I posed on another thread: how much time can Lava be brought up before the September call-up date and not lose a year of team control/service on the back-end (prime year) of his time in Boston? Is it really worth trading Shoppach to bring up Lava a month early and lose a full year of Lava at age 30 or so? One month for one full year? (Lava would likely only play vs LHPs as a catcher anyways- not his strongest area of offense.) Shoppach might be a waiver deal candidate the day Lava is eligible to play MLB without losing a year of service.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    I don't think the Sox should do a thing at catcher, but it appears Shoppach's Sox days are numbered and I think they plan on trading him. I'd be surprised he's still a Sox on Aug. 1. I love the S-S tandem. Sorry to see it end.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    In Response to Who is Üntouchable"?:
    [QUOTE]To me, nobody is untouchable. Offer me better compensation than I am giving up, and I'll be for that trade.   Here's a rough sketch of my idea of who is closest to being untouchable, based on skillset, potential for improvement, years of team control, cost of contract, and positional needs of this team: Keepers: Bradley, Barnes, Middlebrooks, & Bogaerts (blocked by Pedro?)  Papi (at least for 2012) Close to Keepers: Pedroia, Buchholtz, Aceves, Doubront, Morales, Lavarnway, Brentz, Ciriaco (see Bogaerts) Worth Keeping?: Swihart (blocked?), Cecchini (blocked?), Iggy/Marreo (blocked?)  Maybe Package in a Trade: Sweeney, Padilla, Bard, Nava, Cook, Tazawa, Albers, Miller, Atchison, Melancon, Mortensen, Pods, Kalish, Ranaudo, Jacobs, Anderson, Gomez, Owens, Britton, T. Shaw, a nd other prospects not listed here. Explore trades but unlikely Dealt: Ellsbury, Beckett, Lester, AGon, Ross, Aviles, Salty, Shoppach, Punto Salary Dumps: Crawford, Lackey, Dice-K
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    To me: Lester and Buchholz are untouchable because you are not going to get any return for either right now, and they are important pieces of our 2013 team.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    Clay is the team's ace. He's proven time and time again that during this .500 season, he's the one who is consistent, and making the "stopper" type starts. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    In Response to Re: Who is Üntouchable"?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Who is Üntouchable"? : To me: Lester and Buchholz are untouchable because you are not going to get any return for either right now, and they are important pieces of our 2013 team.
    Posted by Drewski5[/QUOTE]

    Yes, their value in potentially returning to form or re-inventing themselves into a new type of pitcher has higher value than we'd get in return, plus the fact that we'd be paying a significant portion of their salaries to play elsewhere.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    In response to "Re: Who is Üntouchable"?": [QUOTE]If Ciriaco has the career Aviles has had he would really have to overachieve The career Aviles has had is a bum's career. Ciriaco has already done better than that. Posted by TrotterNixon[/QUOTE] You can't even believe that.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    Only a stupid bean counter would be pondering roster moves based on years of service. That's loser baseball.

    Only silly clowns would advocate for bringing up a player to fill a back-up role (although you think he should start) for less than 1 month and lose a full year of service time during his prime. Lava can come up Sept 1st and not effect any loss in future years of control, so we are talking about a month or less, depending on his time of service now. 

    Roster moves are made based on years of service all the time.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    I tend toward the opposite extreme.  While I sort of agree acquiring a topline starter should make few players untouchable, I just don't think the Sox are in line to get a topline starter.  The cost, especially in terms of giving up prospects, is probably too high. 

    Meanwhile, if the the current rotation get things turned around, why trade away good players who can help the Sox win now?  Buchholz and Doubront are looking pretty good these days.  Lester and Beckett are not, but both had good track records before this season, and neither is over the hill.  

    If the starting pitching improves, the Sox have a pretty good lineup with Ells, CC, Pedroia, AGon, Middlebrooks, Ortiz (whenever he returns), Aviles/Ciriaco, Ross/Sweeney, and Salty/Shoppach.  With 8 good teams fighting for the two wild cards, getting to the playoffs will be tough, but it is doable. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    I have wanted a frontline starter for over a year, but I don't see it happening this deadline.

    I hope we don't trade a top prospect for a 3-4 type starter.

    Does anyone know how many days Lava can be on the ML roster this year and not lose a year of teaam control on the back end?

    It is my understanding that September days do not count towards this formula. Lava has 0.042 years of  ML service already according to Cót's.

    If he can be called up today and not lose a year, then Shoppach should be traded for a decent prospect. If not, Shoppach could be a waiver deal the day Lava's service time is right.
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    Why the attacks--completely unsupported by any actual statistics--on Aviles fielding?  On fangraphs he is rated 10th best of starting MLB SS's, but his fielding is actually tied for 2d best.  On ESPN.com, he has the 8th best SS fielding percentage, 5th best RF (range factor), and 6th best DWAR. 

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bigpapa1977. Show Bigpapa1977's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    No one is untouchable.  Make the Sox an offer on any of their players and they should listen.

    The future?  Hopefully is Gonzalez, Pedroia, SOME OTHER SS, Middlebrooks, Bradley, Jr, Bogaerts (moved to Corner OF), Lavarnway (DH), Buchholz, Barnes, Lester, and Doubront.

    Serviceable: Kalish/Jacobs, Salty, Ciriaco/Iglesias, Morales, Bard, Mortensen, Miller, Aceves, and Bailey (if he ever plays)

    Hopefully we can move on from Beckett (this offseason), Crawford (next year after he fully recovers from TJ surgery), and Lackey (next year, after he hopefully pitches well in 2013). 

    Let Papi, Sweeney, Shoppach, Punto, Aviles, Padilla, Cook, Nava, Matsuzaka, Albers, Atchison, Cook etc. al  go via trade, free agency, or non-tender.

    Try to trade Jacoby Ellsbury between now and July 31, 2013.  If you can't get enough in return, take the draft picks in 2014.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    In Response to Re: Who is Üntouchable"?:
    [QUOTE]Only silly clowns would advocate for bringing up a player to fill a back-up role (although you think he should start) for less than 1 month and lose a full year of service time during his prime. Lava can come up Sept 1st and not effect any loss in future years of control, so we are talking about a month or less, depending on his time of service now.  Roster moves are made based on years of service all the time. Only a stooge would claim that I wanted Lavarnway off the roster on opening day and then wanted to wait unitl a few weeks before September to bring him up late in the season. I wanted Lavarnway on the active roster from opening day, with the butcher Salty parked in AAA and eventually traded before year end. No active roster decision should be made by bean counters based upon CBA years of service at the beginning of a season or at any point in time that a team is still in a playoff race. Leave it to a stooge to be doing that. YOu are the same stooge who wanted Salty traded and now are pining about trading Shoppach in the middle of a playoff race. Bean counting should have nothing to do with current AAA call-up decisions, in the middle of a playoff race. Aviles is a bum and the Red Sox should have called Lavarnway up by now, certainly with Ortiz on the DL stint. Aviles has options. The problem with the Red Sox is the bean counter nonsense. That's the reason for the losing baseball over the last near half a decade The bean counters are obviously stooges, too, because only stooges would have a near quarter of a billion dollars a year payroll and pretend to try and save money by bean counting AAA prospects.
    Posted by TrotterNixon[/QUOTE]

    You said "bean counting" 5 times in one post.  That might be a record of some sort.

    Also no one except for you thinks Salty is a AAA catcher.  That just shows you don't know what else is out there.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    You jumped on the bum, Aviles, bandwagon and flouted it, after some Fenway homers early in the seaosn. I've always said he's a bum, and he is. I don't want my UIF'er as a butcher with clumsy feet. The Red Sox need to carry 5 OF's, so they have a better RH pinch hitter on the bench than the bum. I went into detail about that, and have no patience for mental midgets.

    For once in your life can you at least try to get my position right and stop arguing against positions I never had?

    This spring, I posted several posts advocating stating Iggy over Aviles. I went into great detail about how a great ranged SS can more than make up for a poor BA & OBP by robbing the opponents of hits. I had rated Aviles as below average to poor in the range category and decent at making easy plays. If I was like you, I'd have stuck to my projection and ignored the facts. Me changing my view on Mike does not help me "look good"or "be right"like you strive to be regardless of obvious evidence to the contrary. My change in opinion had nothing to do with Mike's HRs or OPS. He's actually doing worse offensively (except for RBIs) than I projected. 

    The reason, I changed my mind about Aviles is based on his fielding so far this year. He is not doing as great as some people think he is, but he is doing way better than I anticipated... way better. His range has been above average, and I'm not saying this based on UZR or RF/9. I didn't even look at thoise numbers until recently. It is based on watching every pitch of every game this year. Mike has made some exceptional plays at SS. No, he is not as wide-ranged as Chiriaco or Iggy, but the differential is not as great as either of us thought it was. The difference is that I am willing to admit I was wrong, and you have never been able to do that.

    I posted that I was shocked that Ciriaco was our DH while Aviles was playing SS. Somehow, you read into that that I think Aviles is a better defensive SS than Pedro. Typical clown logic again.

    I have also said that I 'd like to  see Aviles as our utility IFér next year, but I seriously doubt Ben will ever move Iggy in front of Aviles, so we might as well trade Iggy and his $2M deal now.

    As for Bogaerts, I was the one who said he'd be better at 3B than SS last spring. Now, you act like you just discovered the notion. 

    Stop the silliness. Stop inventing strawmen and arguing against yourself.

    Stop being a clown.


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    In Response to Re: Who is Üntouchable"?:
    [QUOTE]You jumped on the bum, Aviles, bandwagon and flouted it, after some Fenway homers early in the seaosn. I've always said he's a bum, and he is. I don't want my UIF'er as a butcher with clumsy feet. The Red Sox need to carry 5 OF's, so they have a better RH pinch hitter on the bench than the bum. I went into detail about that, and have no patience for mental midgets. For once in your life can you at least try to get my position right and stop arguing against positions I never had? This spring, I posted several posts advocating stating Iggy over Aviles. I went into great detail about how a great ranged SS can more than make up for a poor BA & OBP by robbing the opponents of hits. I had rated Aviles as below average to poor in the range category and decent at making easy plays. If I was like you, I'd have stuck to my projection and ignored the facts. Me changing my view on Mike does not help me "look good"or "be right"like you strive to be regardless of obvious evidence to the contrary. My change in opinion had nothing to do with Mike's HRs or OPS. He's actually doing worse offensively (except for RBIs) than I projected.  The reason, I changed my mind about Aviles is based on his fielding so far this year. He is not doing as great as some people think he is, but he is doing way better than I anticipated... way better. His range has been above average, and I'm not saying this based on UZR or RF/9. I didn't even look at thoise numbers until recently. It is based on watching every pitch of every game this year. Mike has made some exceptional plays at SS. No, he is not as wide-ranged as Chiriaco or Iggy, but the differential is not as great as either of us thought it was. The difference is that I am willing to admit I was wrong, and you have never been able to do that. I posted that I was shocked that Ciriaco was our DH while Aviles was playing SS. Somehow, you read into that that I think Aviles is a better defensive SS than Pedro. Typical clown logic again. I have also said that I 'd like to  see Aviles as our utility IFér next year, but I seriously doubt Ben will ever move Iggy in front of Aviles, so we might as well trade Iggy and his $2M deal now. As for Bogaerts, I was the one who said he'd be better at 3B than SS last spring. Now, you act like you just discovered the notion.  Stop the silliness. Stop inventing strawmen and arguing against yourself. Stop being a clown.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    He actually is the only person in the world that thinks Aviles is an extremely bad defensive player.  Some might say he is average, some might say slightly below average. But everyone but Softhillbillytrotter knows that the guy has value and has played decently this year.

    There are three possibilities.  Troll, insane or he doesn't know baseball.

    I lean towards troll of course, but the other two are distinct possibilities as well.



     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    In Response to Re: Who is Üntouchable"?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who is Üntouchable"? : He actually is the only person in the world that thinks Aviles is an extremely bad defensive player.  Some might say he is average, some might say slightly below average. But everyone but Softhillbillytrotter knows that the guy has value and has played decently this year. There are three possibilities.  Troll, insane or he doesn't know baseball. I lean towards troll of course, but the other two are distinct possibilities as well.
    Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]

    Insane troll?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    In Response to Re: Who is Üntouchable"?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who is Üntouchable"? : Insane troll?
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    It's possible.

    I think sane troll.  At least that is what I hope for the poor dude.


     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Who is Üntouchable"?

    Looks like most were too "untouchable" this deadline.

    I hated to lose Pods, since he is better now than Kalish, but Breslow is under team control through 2013.
     

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