Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?
posted at 8/12/2011 8:49 AM EDT
- daveymo1234
- Posts: 236
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In Response to
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?:
You are a liar. No angry Jim, you are a feeble minded drone. 3 for 19, 4 game sample. Jim, let's take the lows with the highs and not get too excited. Dobler, two links isn't the national media or baseball fans. One of your links claims Ellsbury is Red Sox MVP. I'll put you down as swallowing that. AGon certainly isn't, Pedroia certainy isn't, Ortiz certainly isn't. Who needs numbers, use the wet shorts test.
Posted by softylaw
After reading the reply posts by JD and the Dobber I have only one word for you...
FACE
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?
posted at 8/12/2011 10:18 AM EDT
- LloydDobler
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In Response to
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?:
In Response to Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year? : You don't get it maybe i can help you. HR 2, rbis 1, runs 1, total bases 1, triples 1, 22 stolen bases, 951 ops. AGON 960. yes 122 strikeouts 117 hits thanks for pointing out that. (opps) forgot 370 ob. Yes it would be nice if a red sox won the mvp.
Posted by CHUBBIE99
Those are valid points, although it was unnecessary to be condescending. I can read stats off baseball-reference.com, too.
I'm not saying he's not in the discussion, but again I don't know how your MVP can hit .275.
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?
posted at 8/12/2011 12:13 PM EDT
- slomag
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Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?:
In Response to Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year? : Always enjoy your posts. Since you brought up the comparison between pedroia and jeter, which I as a yankee fan not feel is an act of heresy, I have to point out to you that for all the "intangibles" that everyone always seems to talk about, when it comes to Pedroia ........ Jeter never won the MVP. I don't think Pedroia belongs in this conversation. Elsbury's number are superior to his in virtually all categories with the exception of OBP ....... and to be perfectly honest with you ........... although Cano (at this time) is not a legitimate MVP candidate; I'm not so sure Pedroia's numbers are all that superior to Cano's.
Posted by pri360
Pedroia's defense is what is setting him apart this year. Offensively, I would give the edge to Cano, but both by the naked eye and by defensive metrics, Pedroia is having a ridiculous year defensively. The SI article said he improved his speed rating - I don't know how that's even possible, but it may have translated to better range, and has obviously translated to better success with stealing bases.
Granderson is still my pick for MVP right now, but Pedroia would be a close second. Also, Gonzalez has a 'sleeping giant' feel - I wouldn't be surprised to see another power surge like he had in May before the season ends.
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?
posted at 8/12/2011 12:36 PM EDT
- pri360
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Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?:
In Response to Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year? : Pedroia's defense is what is setting him apart this year. Offensively, I would give the edge to Cano, but both by the naked eye and by defensive metrics, Pedroia is having a ridiculous year defensively. The SI article said he improved his speed rating - I don't know how that's even possible, but it may have translated to better range, and has obviously translated to better success with stealing bases. Granderson is still my pick for MVP right now, but Pedroia would be a close second. Also, Gonzalez has a 'sleeping giant' feel - I wouldn't be surprised to see another power surge like he had in May before the season ends.
Posted by slomag
I agree with you..... that Pedroia is stellar defensively, and even with all the natural ability that Cano has, sometimes he doesn't seem to have his head into the game. You never see that with Pedroia. Did you see Fox showing pedroia jumping up at the begiining of every pitch just have his feet read to make a play during last weeks Yankee game? Amazing. Thing is -- they hardly ever use defense as a reason for awarding the MVP. Especially with so many other players with superior numbers. (Granderson, Bautista and Gonzalez are all quite good defensively) (ellsbury is good, but I think a notch lower) But; if you're going by who is having a better season Pedroia or Cano; ....... unless Cano goes on crazy hitting streak ...... I would have to go with Pedroia. Lets face it; I don't think either of us would mind having the other as a second baseman on their team -- although the lefty - righty thing works best just the way it is.
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?
posted at 8/12/2011 12:50 PM EDT
- slomag
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Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?:
In Response to Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year? : I agree with you..... that Pedroia is stellar defensively, and even with all the natural ability that Cano has, sometimes he doesn't seem to have his head into the game. You never see that with Pedroia. Did you see Fox showing pedroia jumping up at the begiining of every pitch just have his feet read to make a play during last weeks Yankee game? Amazing. Thing is -- they hardly ever use defense as a reason for awarding the MVP. Especially with so many other players with superior numbers. (Granderson, Bautista and Gonzalez are all quite good defensively) (ellsbury is good, but I think a notch lower) But; if you're going by who is having a better season Pedroia or Cano; ....... unless Cano goes on crazy hitting streak ...... I would have to go with Pedroia. Lets face it; I don't think either of us would mind having the other as a second baseman on their team -- although the lefty - righty thing works best just the way it is.
Posted by pri360
I think defense plays a big part in the voting - maybe not necessarily when comparing two players of the same position, but catchers and middle infielders routinely receive more support than out-fielders and corner infielders. Just compare pedroia's MVP season to Youk's numbers the same year - offensively Youk had a far better year.
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?
posted at 8/12/2011 1:00 PM EDT
In Response to
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?:
In Response to Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year? : I think defense plays a big part in the voting - maybe not necessarily when comparing two players of the same position, but catchers and middle infielders routinely receive more support than out-fielders and corner infielders. Just compare pedroia's MVP season to Youk's numbers the same year - offensively Youk had a far better year.
Posted by slomag
I would have voted for either youk or mauer over pedroia in 08.
This year is all about Granderson!!
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?
posted at 8/12/2011 1:06 PM EDT
- soxmeister
- Posts: 1281
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ESPN:
Eric Karabell's top 10 AL MVP candidates:
1. Jacoby Ellsbury, CF, Red Sox
2. Dustin Pedroia, 2B, Red Sox
3. Curtis Granderson, CF, Yankees
4. Adrian Gonzalez, 1B, Red Sox
5. Jose Bautista, 3B/OF, Blue Jays
6. Miguel Cabrera, 1B, Tigers
7. Asdrubal Cabrera, SS, Indians
8. Justin Verlander, SP, Tigers
9. Ben Zobrist, 2B/OF, Rays
10. Mark Teixeira, 1B, Yankees
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?
posted at 8/12/2011 1:14 PM EDT
- pri360
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In Response to
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?:
In Response to Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year? : I think defense plays a big part in the voting - maybe not necessarily when comparing two players of the same position, but catchers and middle infielders routinely receive more support than out-fielders and corner infielders. Just compare pedroia's MVP season to Youk's numbers the same year - offensively Youk had a far better year.
Posted by slomag
I don't see anyone here that got selected on defense with the possible exception of Pedroia. Mauer's great defensively, but look at his offense.
That won't happen this year ...there are too many too many offensive standouts.I'm sorry but i don't agree with you.
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?
posted at 8/12/2011 1:18 PM EDT
- ALaGatorAL
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Looks like somebody talking out of his AZZ ()The-Babe(), or at least two buttcheeks !! LOL ... Unfortunately I have to agree however. If the voting took place today, and I'm glad it don't, I think Granderson would be a lock. The thing that will keep A-Gon, who I thought was a complete runaway a few weeks back, from winning it is the constant double plays he's been hitting into, almost twice as many as any other MVP candidate. For whatever reason the guy is just not elevating the ball as his GO-AO ratio is almost 2-1. I'm the happiest man on the face of the planet that A-GON will be playing for the Sox for the next several years but unless he picks it up with some power numbers (HRs), I'm afraid the MVP will be out of reach. He will have to settle for the Silver Slugger and a World Series Ring !!
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?
posted at 8/12/2011 1:30 PM EDT
- slomag
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In Response to
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?:
In Response to Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year? : I don't see anyone here that got selected on defense with the possible exception of Pedroia. Mauer's great defensively, but look at his offense. That won't happen this year ...there are too many too many offensive standouts.I'm sorry but i don't agree with you. Year NL 2010 Joey Votto - V CIN 150 G .324/.424/.600 Josh Hamilton - V TEX 133 G .359/.411/.633 2009 Albert Pujols - V STL 160 G .327/.443/.658 Joe Mauer - V MIN 138 G .365/.444/587 2008 Albert Pujols - V STL 148 G .357/.462/.653 Dustin Pedroia - V BOS 157 G .326/.376/.493 2007 Jimmy Rollins - V PHI 162 G .296/.344/.531 Alex Rodriguez - V NYY 158 G .314/.422/.645 2006 Ryan Howard - V PHI 159 G .313/.425/.659 Justin Morneau - V MIN 157 G .321/.375/.559 2005 Albert Pujols - V STL 161 G .330/.430/.609 Alex Rodriguez - V NYY 162 G .321/.421/.610 2004 Barry Bonds - V SFG 147 G .362/.609/.812 Vladimir Guerrero - V ANA 156 G .337/.391/.598 2003 Barry Bonds - V SFG 130 G .341/.529/.749 Alex Rodriguez - V TEX 161 G .298/.396/.600 2002 Barry Bonds - V SFG 143 G .370/.582/.799 Miguel Tejada - V OAK 162 G .308/.354/.508 2001 Barry Bonds - V SFG 153 G .328/.515/.863 Ichiro Suzuki - V SEA 157 G .350/.381/.45 2000 Jeff Kent - V SFG 159 G .334/.424/.596 Jason Giambi - V OAK 152 G .333/.476/.647
Posted by pri360
Mauer had a great year in 2009 for any position, but look at the voting for middle infielders. Jimmy Rollins in 2007, over Matt Holliday? Miguel Tejada in 2002 over Jason Giambi? Jeff Kent over team-mate Barry Bonds in 2000? It's expected for the big numbers to come from 1B or LF - when they come from a Catcher or middle infielder, they are given more weight.
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?
posted at 8/12/2011 1:50 PM EDT
- pri360
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In Response to
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?:
In Response to Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year? : Mauer had a great year in 2009 for any position, but look at the voting for middle infielders. Jimmy Rollins in 2007, over Matt Holliday? Miguel Tejada in 2002 over Jason Giambi? Jeff Kent over team-mate Barry Bonds in 2000? It's expected for the big numbers to come from 1B or LF - when they come from a Catcher or middle infielder, they are given more weight.
Posted by slomag
Tejada's not a defensive standout, there was lot of power that came from a position typically not known as a power position; same thing with Kent; Neither ever won a gold glove -- you're proving my point .... not yours. If you want to say that over the last 11 years -- 22 MVP awards -- that Rollins and Pedroia won it because they are defensive standouts; so be it. The MVP awards throghout the 90's show the same trend. Offense wins it. Pedroia doesn't have numbers right now.
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?
posted at 8/12/2011 1:59 PM EDT
- canetime
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ELLSBURY!
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?
posted at 8/12/2011 2:07 PM EDT
- pri360
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Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?:
ELLSBURY!
Posted by canetime
could be; great year
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?
posted at 8/12/2011 2:09 PM EDT
- slomag
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In Response to
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?:
The middle infielder or catcher does not have to be a defensive standout - just the nature of the position provides a boost. You said it in your post - there was lot of power that came from a position typically not known as a power position. In other words, if Tejada plays 1B in 2002, he doesn't get the MVP.
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?
posted at 8/12/2011 2:17 PM EDT
Either Pedey or Joey Bats are the most deserving. They've easily been the most valuable players in baseball this season. If I could split my vote between the two, I would. Because I can't, I'm leaning towards Bautista for the time being.
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?
posted at 8/12/2011 2:19 PM EDT
- pri360
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In Response to
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?:
In Response to Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year? : The middle infielder or catcher does not have to be a defensive standout - just the nature of the position provides a boost. You said it in your post - there was lot of power that came from a position typically not known as a power position. In other words, if Tejada plays 1B in 2002, he doesn't get the MVP.
Posted by slomag
You're changing your arguement -- you are saying now that good offense that comes from a position not necessarily known for strong offensive production gets more MVP consideration. I agree. But before; you said "
I think defense plays a big part in the voting " I disagree. So which is it; the defense or the position they play? And please don't answer "both".
It's about offense (with the very rare exception of a pitcher winning the award).
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?
posted at 8/12/2011 2:48 PM EDT
- pri360
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Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?:
Either Pedey or Joey Bats are the most deserving. They've easily been the most valuable players in baseball this season. If I could split my vote between the two, I would. Because I can't, I'm leaning towards Bautista for the time being.
Posted by redsoxfan791
have you seen Bautista numbers -- post all star game? Brutal. Pedroia -- well I've already talked myself out about that one.
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?
posted at 8/12/2011 2:52 PM EDT
- slomag
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Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?:
In Response to Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year? : You're changing your arguement -- you are saying now that good offense that comes from a position not necessarily known for strong offensive production gets more MVP consideration. I agree. But before; you said " I think defense plays a big part in the voting " I disagree. So which is it; the defense or the position they play? And please don't answer "both". It's about offense (with the very rare exception of a pitcher winning the award).
Posted by pri360
I'm not changing anything - this was my full quote: I think defense plays a big part in the voting - maybe not necessarily when comparing two players of the same position, but catchers and middle infielders routinely receive more support than out-fielders and corner infielders.
In other words, the voters consider these positions more vital defensively, and more difficult to replace. Pedroia's .877 OPS may look about on par with Gonzalez's .960 OPS, despite the fact that both are excellent defenders at their positions.
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?
posted at 8/12/2011 2:59 PM EDT
- pri360
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In Response to
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?:
In Response to Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year? : I'm not changing anything - this was my full quote: I think defense plays a big part in the voting - maybe not necessarily when comparing two players of the same position, but catchers and middle infielders routinely receive more support than out-fielders and corner infielders. In other words, the voters consider these positions more vital defensively, and more difficult to replace. Pedroia's .877 OPS may look about on par with Gonzalez's .960 OPS, despite the fact that both are excellent defenders at their positions.
Posted by slomag
The voting history doesn't agree with you. 3 out of the last 22 MVP winners -- that's 13.66% ---- fit that critera -- the other 86+% of the time --- OFFENSE wins. I could do the MVP winners in the 1990's for you as well, if you'd like me to. You're entitled to your opinion and you're not the only one who feels that way about Pedroia ---and it's plain to see that I will Never change your mind. Have a real nice weekend! PRI
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?
posted at 8/12/2011 3:32 PM EDT
- LloydDobler
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Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?:
ESPN: Eric Karabell's top 10 AL MVP candidates: 1. Jacoby Ellsbury, CF, Red Sox 2. Dustin Pedroia, 2B, Red Sox 3. Curtis Granderson, CF, Yankees 4. Adrian Gonzalez, 1B, Red Sox 5. Jose Bautista, 3B/OF, Blue Jays 6. Miguel Cabrera, 1B, Tigers 7. Asdrubal Cabrera, SS, Indians 8. Justin Verlander, SP, Tigers 9. Ben Zobrist, 2B/OF, Rays 10. Mark Teixeira, 1B, Yankees
Posted by soxmeister
Yeah, but he's not "national" either.
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?
posted at 8/12/2011 3:50 PM EDT
- CHUBBIE99
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In Response to
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?:
In Response to Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year? : Those are valid points, although it was unnecessary to be condescending. I can read stats off baseball-reference.com, too. I'm not saying he's not in the discussion, but again I don't know how your MVP can hit .275.
Posted by LloydDobler
Lloyd, So if pedy hits 305 15-20 hr 75-80 rbi. you feel thats good for the mvp. Thats fair, but all-star break numbers for the mvp in my opinion. AGON, Grandy either way hands down right now.
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?
posted at 8/12/2011 5:08 PM EDT
- slomag
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In Response to
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?:
In Response to Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year? : The voting history doesn't agree with you. 3 out of the last 22 MVP winners -- that's 13.66% ---- fit that critera -- the other 86+% of the time --- OFFENSE wins. I could do the MVP winners in the 1990's for you as well, if you'd like me to. You're entitled to your opinion and you're not the only one who feels that way about Pedroia ---and it's plain to see that I will Never change your mind. Have a real nice weekend! PRI
Posted by pri360
Yes, but in those scenarios there was an OF or corner infielder with significantly better offensive stats. Try finding the reverse scenario - where a 1B or LF wins the award, but a SS, 2B or C on a playoff team had better offensive stats.
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?
posted at 8/12/2011 5:43 PM EDT
- LloydDobler
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In Response to
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?:
In Response to Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year? : Lloyd, So if pedy hits 305 15-20 hr 75-80 rbi. you feel thats good for the mvp. Thats fair, but all-star break numbers for the mvp in my opinion. AGON, Grandy either way hands down right now.
Posted by CHUBBIE99
Honestly, I think that opinion is shared by the majority. I'm not saying Pedey should be the MVP, only that I don't see Granderson as the slam-dunk that many others do.
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?
posted at 8/12/2011 5:50 PM EDT
who cares who gets mvp, as long as world series mvp goes to one of the red sox.
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?
posted at 8/12/2011 6:06 PM EDT
In Response to
Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year?:
In Response to Re: Who is the AL MVP So Far This Year? : Honestly, I think that opinion is shared by the majority. I'm not saying Pedey should be the MVP, only that I don't see Granderson as the slam-dunk that many others do.
Posted by LloydDobler
He definitely isn't a slam dunk Lloyd in fact I'd say IMHO Gonzalez is the favorite with Bautista in second.
