Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from aussiewill. Show aussiewill's posts

    Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?

    We have Theo Epstein , GM for to World Championships 2004 , 2007. We have Bill Belichick 2001, 2002, 2004 in the NFL.  The Bruins had Harry Sinden in the early seventies, Stanley Cup 71 73 great teams. We forgot one team, ah, the Celtics.

    Red Auerbach won, and won and won. Red would have to be the brightest bulb in Boston History. Of course Red had Big Bill , arguably the greatest player in basketball history. The Red Sox have the distinct honor of having traded the greatest player in baseball history Babe Ruth. But that's before WWII.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?

    In Response to Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?:
    [QUOTE]We have Theo Epstein , GM for to World Championships 2004 , 2007. We have Bill Belichick 2001, 2002, 2004 in the NFL.  The Bruins had Harry Sinden in the early seventies, Stanley Cup 71 73 great teams. We forgot one team, ah, the Celtics. Red Auerbach won, and won and won. Red would have to be the brightest bulb in Boston History. Of course Red had Big Bill , arguably the greatest player in basketball history. The Red Sox have the distinct honor of having traded the greatest player in baseball history Babe Ruth. But that's before WWII.
    Posted by aussiewill[/QUOTE]

    Red Auerbach and it isn't even close.  He accomplished what will never be accomplished again.  Winning 11 championships in 13 years.  I believe the only team that is close to winning as many championships in a short-time is the Yankees in baseball.  
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from tbrod. Show tbrod's posts

    Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?

    Red was the one who engineered the trade with the St. Louis Hawks to bring Bill Russell to Boston.
    The greatest coach-GM in sports history, let alone Boston.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from craig2174. Show craig2174's posts

    Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?

    Maybe a better question is, who is the best current GM in Boston Sports?

    Because Red Auerbach was the best in sports period.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?

    yes no question Red

    I think Chiarelli has done a masterful job of late. He has a harder cap to work with and won the most recent title. He gets the nod as best job done last 2-3 years.

    If you choose past 10 years it would be Bill Belichick over Theo. Bill has 1 more title, a salary cap and it is way harder to never have a bad year in Football than it is in baseball. His only 2 non-playoff seasons were still 9-7 and 11-5 affairs, the later with no Brady. Theo can buy players and some of his dumb signings and trades still sting.

    Ainge made the great KG trade and that is all. His inability to keep Posey and get a good backup big after '08 (Birdman/DeAndre Jordan both there for the taking) and then later inability to get a backup PG for Rondo and depth to rest his aging core cost the team at least 1 or maybe even 2 titles.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?

    In answer to the question, this is how I'd rank them:

    1. Red Auerbach
    2. Bill Belichick
    3. Theo Epstein
    4. Dick O'Connell
    5. Milt Schmidt (built the early-'70s teams).
    6. Harry Sinden (never won the Cup as GM but had that long streak of playoff teams.)
    7. Peter Chiarelli (could eventually overtake Sinden with more time).
    8. Danny Ainge
    9. Lou Gorman
    10. Dan Duquette
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?

    Red. I am not so sure Belichick qualifies considering how instrumental Pioloi was here for so long and the mixed marks the post Pioli years are generating so far.

    Some of discounting factors on Theo here like the budget and no cap cut both ways. I am sure Theo would love to operate with NFL contract rules where he could cut mistakes at little to no cost.

    Comparing sports is hard too. In hockey and baseball there is a lot more player development adding a unique level of complexity and in football roster is huge. Very different situations.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?

    I hate questions like this one.

    Do you measure a GM by how many championships his teams win? Or by the moves he makes to enhance the teams?

    Too many flukey things have happened to Boston teams for which you cannot hold the GM directly responsible.

    Bucky Dent homerun.

    Ball going through Bill Buckner's legs preceded by Bob Stanley throwing a wild pitch....(or the manager not utilising a defensive replacement on the roster-Dave Stapleton).

    Too many men on the ice call that cost a deciding playoff game.

    Ed Armbrister interfering with Carton Fisk in 1975 World Series, resulting in a blown call by umpire.

    Grady Little's decision to leave an obviously fatigued Pedro in a game when Mike Timlin was warmed up and ready in 2003 Yankee game.

    Jim Rice injury that prevented him from playing in the 1975 postseason.

    Bobby Orr knee injuries that crippled him from through the 1972-73 season until he ultimately had to retire.

    Cam Neely serious leg injury in the early 90's forces him to play every other game then eventually early retirement.

    The bottom line is the Red Sox built a very good team in the 70's that could have won in 75, 76, 77, and 78...maybe beyond.The Bruins had a great team in the late 60's through the mid 70's but the cornerstone of the franchise (Orr) had his effectiveness diminshed by serious knee  injuries. The Bruins should have been more serious contenders for the Cup in years 1973-76 at least, and maybe more...with a healthy Bobby Orr to build around. As it was, without Orr they made some serious runs in the late 70's and a few in the early 80's. They lacked that one guy, and Orr could have put them over the top. In 1974 Stanley Cup , Orr playing virtually on one leg, almost led the Bruis to victory over Phiily...but there was this goalie named Bernie Parent.

    The (late) 60's, 70's and 80's were glorious years for Red Sox/ Bruins fans, the only thing missing was a championship, the GMs of both teams did their jobs very well, but serious injuries to key players, bad referee/umpire calls, and flukes like the Dent homerun prevented the teams from bringing home the big prize.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?

    In Response to Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?:
    [QUOTE]Red. I am not so sure Belichick qualifies considering how instrumental Pioloi was here for so long and the mixed marks the post Pioli years are generating so far. Some of discounting factors on Theo here like the budget and no cap cut both ways. I am sure Theo would love to operate with NFL contract rules where he could cut mistakes at little to no cost. Comparing sports is hard too. In hockey and baseball there is a lot more player development adding a unique level of complexity and in football roster is huge. Very different situations.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    hey katz...

    I get that there's differences in each sport and frankly the era in which each guys competed is also a factor. In the case of Auerback he has no equal...the only guys that's even in the converstion is Bellicheck...becasue both served dual roles as GM and head coach at the same time while the team was winning championships and both were the primary architects of the rosters...

    The legend of Red's behind the scenes manipulation of drafts is the stuff of legend, "the legend of Larry included".

    What do you think the chances of Ainge being able to make this type of move in the modern NBA is? The excerp below is from from Wikipedia, the link to the entire article is below it...

    After the 1955–56 season, Auerbach made a stunning trade. He sent perennial All-Star Ed Macauley to the St. Louis Hawks along with the draft rights to Cliff Hagan in exchange for the second overall pick in the draft.[9] After negotiating with the Rochester Royals—a negotiation that included a promise that the Celtics owner would send the highly sought-after Ice Capades to Rochester if the Royals would let Russell slide to #2—Auerbach used the pick to select University of San Francisco center Bill Russell.[10]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Celtics#1946.E2.80.9356:_Early_years_starting_with_Bob_Cousy
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?

    Dan Duquette, he got the Sox Manny, Pedro, Lowe, Varitek, Wakefield, Damon, Timlin. His organization was responsible for bringing up talents like Nomar, Naehring, Mo Vaughn, Benziger, Scott Cooper, Hillenbrand. He shrewdly let Clemens and Vaughn go despite public sentiment.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?

    Only the Lord saves more than Bernie Parent
    Jesus Saves, Esposito Scores on the Rebound
    Hurst and Clemens and a Bunch of Lemons
    The Brady Act: Superbowl Champions
    Who's Your Daddy, Pedro's Your Daddy
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?

    In Response to Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII? : hey katz... I get that there's differences in each sport and frankly the era in which each guys competed is also a factor. In the case of Auerback he has no equal...the only guys that's even in the converstion is Bellicheck...becasue both served dual roles as GM and head coach at the same time while the team was winning championships and both were the primary architects of the rosters... The legend of Red's behind the scenes manipulation of drafts is the stuff of legend, "the legend of Larry included". What do you think the chances of Ainge being able to make this type of move in the modern NBA is? The excerp below is from from Wikipedia, the link to the entire article is below it... After the 1955–56 season, Auerbach made a stunning trade. He sent perennial All-Star Ed Macauley to the St. Louis Hawks along with the draft rights to Cliff Hagan in exchange for the second overall pick in the draft. [ 9 ] After negotiating with the Rochester Royals —a negotiation that included a promise that the Celtics owner would send the highly sought-after Ice Capades to Rochester if the Royals would let Russell slide to #2—Auerbach used the pick to select University of San Francisco center Bill Russell . [ 10 ] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Celtics#1946.E2.80.9356:_Early_years_starting_with_Bob_Cousy
    Posted by Beantowne[/QUOTE]Yes it was a different time in 50's. I agree on Red who built 3 unique teams and almost completely retooled the dynasty team around Russell on the fly.

    And certainly the GM/Coach comparison between Bill and Red is a good one.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?

    In Response to Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?:
    [QUOTE]Dan Duquette, he got the Sox Manny, Pedro, Lowe, Varitek, Wakefield, Damon, Timlin. His organization was responsible for bringing up talents like Nomar, Naehring, Mo Vaughn, Benziger, Scott Cooper, Hillenbrand. He shrewdly let Clemens and Vaughn go despite public sentiment.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Hey Danny,

    I'm afraid the only thing Duqutte did was to perpetuate the same organizational stretegy that prevented us from winning in the previous 3 decades...He built clubs that were designed to win in Fenway with little regard to the value of havng a deep pitching staff's with a stout bullpen to close game out. He was a very good talant evaluator and maybe if he'd have had the chance to work for Henry and Lu7ccino he may well have won one himself....Even after letting Clemens walk it our pitching never could match up with the A's in the early 90's or the Yanks in the late 90's where for the most part it was Pedro, a couple of retreads and pray for rain...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?

    I agree with what the Sox tried at pitching, but I do believe that Duquette was not allowed to spend money until really the year of Mussina/Manny. He tried desperately to sign Mussina, instead was beaten to him, then had no choice but to go after Manny. It was his best move/decision. He did the right thing in retrospect. Mussina netted the Yanks no WS titles, Manny got 2 in his time here. Mussina was terrific, top of line starter, and to me, earned his contract, although even the Yanks hoped for more postseason wise. But the bottom line is Duquette not only forced the Red Sox into keeping Manny, it made it impossible for the team to let him go. They couldn't waiver him out at 20 mil a year, it was a stroke of genius even if Dan's plan wasn't to do that. He made the two big deals--he traded Slocumb for Tek and Lowe--the net results were 04 series for sure, 2003 should have been, and 07 with Tek....He got Pedro, the best pitcher in baseball in the Steroid Era....Duquette best GM.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?

    Duke picked Wakefield off the scrapheat when no one else wanted him. Still pitching
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?

    Duquette is a wonderful contrarian's position. Duke was OK considering the resources the Yawkey Trust could generate.

    He had a good touch luck with his big signings (sign and trade Pedro and FA Manny). The Slocum trade is a feather in his cap and Damon which was one of his final acts was solid. But I don't know you kudos to a guy for structuring a contract so badly that the RS could not give it away for a $25K posting fee.

    On the negative side of the balance sheet he put too much emphasis on international prospects without a depth of results, neglected the amateur draft and alienated fans, players, coaches and other GMs. His firing of Jimy only to find out Felipe Alou had no desire to work with him and therefore giving the manager's job to Kerrigan was a disaster.

    There is reason Dan Duquette in spite of the positives on his resume could not get another MLB gig.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from S0ftl@w. Show S0ftl@w's posts

    Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?

    Red was the only anti-left-winger adored by Boston fans. Churchill would call MA a People's Republic of.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?

    In Response to Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?:
    [QUOTE]I agree with what the Sox tried at pitching, but I do believe that Duquette was not allowed to spend money until really the year of Mussina/Manny. He tried desperately to sign Mussina, instead was beaten to him, then had no choice but to go after Manny. It was his best move/decision. He did the right thing in retrospect. Mussina netted the Yanks no WS titles, Manny got 2 in his time here. Mussina was terrific, top of line starter, and to me, earned his contract, although even the Yanks hoped for more postseason wise. But the bottom line is Duquette not only forced the Red Sox into keeping Manny, it made it impossible for the team to let him go. They couldn't waiver him out at 20 mil a year, it was a stroke of genius even if Dan's plan wasn't to do that. He made the two big deals--he traded Slocumb for Tek and Lowe--the net results were 04 series for sure, 2003 should have been, and 07 with Tek....He got Pedro, the best pitcher in baseball in the Steroid Era....Duquette best GM.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    I'm afraid we're goingto have to agree to disagree...Duke was a good GM but not the best and if he was he wouldn't have spent the last decade on the outside looking in...

    He was a very good talant evaluator and his abililty to oversee the drafts was one of the primary reason he was hired away from Montreal. While I agree his hands were tied working for Sullivan and then later the Hariington group, who's sole purpuse in the latter 90's was to channel funds into the Yawkey trust, before the ineveitable sales of the club in 2002. After he was hired with Sullivan still pulling the strings he still made his share of blunders and he also made his share of mistakes in the utilization of his ML budget, one of his biggest was signing Jose Offerman to a big FA deal etc and in 1995 signing Jose Conseco to a 5M dollar deal...are just a few examples...

    Perhaps his one real undoing as a GM aside from his paranoid anti social behaviors which are well documanted...Was de-invstesting in his North & Latin American scouting programs and instead spent and inordinate amount of time and resources in Asia wasting funds used to aquire international FA with little or nothing to show for it. althoug he did draft, sign and produce a lot of quality players...the sox system when Henry and Lucciono took over was close to barren.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?

    Red for one trades and knowing when to do what it took.
    The Russell deal
    Joe Barry Carroll for Robert Parish and the ability to draft McHale.
    Waiting on Ainge to get baseball out of his system.
    Then the Bird signing.
    And totally being smarter than anyone else in the NBA from the 50's through the 70"s

    RS Lou Gorman built a helluva team until Haywood Sullivan (who was a bad catcher along with a even worse GM) totally screwed the team up for about 10 years because of his stupidity.

    B's Milt Schimit(sp) built the Orr B's & Harry Sinden was good but was tied by the purse strings of the Jacobs for far too many years

    Pats BB just because he finds players every year to fit into the system. Very few "stars" who have left have had the same success elsewhere.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?

    In Response to Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?:
    [QUOTE]Red for one trades and knowing when to do what it took. The Russell deal Joe Barry Carroll for Robert Parish and the ability to draft McHale. Waiting on Ainge to get baseball out of his system. Then the Bird signing. And totally being smarter than anyone else in the NBA from the 50's through the 70"s RS Lou Gorman built a helluva team until Haywood Sullivan (who was a bad catcher along with a even worse GM) totally screwed the team up for about 10 years because of his stupidity. B's Milt Schimit(sp) built the Orr B's & Harry Sinden was good but was tied by the purse strings of the Jacobs for far too many years Pats BB just because he finds players every year to fit into the system. Very few "stars" who have left have had the same success elsewhere.
    Posted by JimfromFlorida[/QUOTE]


    Actually Jim, Gorman came after Sullivan and cleaned up his mess. O'Connell was the GM that turned things around going back to the 1960s. He built most of the 1967 team, created a strong farm system that built the great teams in the 1970s. It was Sullivan who destroyed those teams when he took over in 1977. Sullivan set the team back but not quite 10 years. There were a couple of players that came up in his tenure, but it was Gorman, who took over in the early 1980s and built most of the three Division winners '86, '88 and '90 and the '86 World Series team that should have broken the curse.

    Before Theo, O'Connell and Gorman were the best GMs in Red Sox history IMO.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?

    Auerbach has no equal in any sport as far as being teacher and the boss goes and that includes the zenmonkey from LA. Duquette is probably my favorite though Epstein definately got them over the hump he did so with many of Dan's acquisitions. Harry the Hat had to GM for the cheapskates of all time. BB is the closest thing to genius in Boston since Auerbach...
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?

    In Response to Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII? : Actually Jim, Gorman came after Sullivan and cleaned up his mess. O'Connell was the GM that turned things around going back to the 1960s. He built most of the 1967 team, created a strong farm system that built the great teams in the 1970s. It was Sullivan who destroyed those teams when he took over in 1977. Sullivan set the team back but not quite 10 years. There were a couple of players that came up in his tenure, but it was Gorman, who took over in the early 1980s and built most of the three Division winners '86, '88 and '90 and the '86 World Series team that should have broken the curse. Before Theo, O'Connell and Gorman were the best GMs in Red Sox history IMO.
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]

    Sorry you are right got the two mixed
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Diamondtalk. Show Diamondtalk's posts

    Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?

    Red Auerbach held a few titles with the Celtics including General Manager.     Nobody comes close to what he did.  
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from frankn. Show frankn's posts

    Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?

    Woody Woodward.  ( thanks for Tek and Lowe and 2 championships)
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?

    In Response to Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who is the Best GM of a Boston Sports team since WWII? : I'm afraid we're goingto have to agree to disagree...Duke was a good GM but not the best and if he was he wouldn't have spent the last decade on the outside looking in... He was a very good talant evaluator and his abililty to oversee the drafts was one of the primary reason he was hired away from Montreal. While I agree his hands were tied working for Sullivan and then later the Hariington group, who's sole purpuse in the latter 90's was to channel funds into the Yawkey trust, before the ineveitable sales of the club in 2002. After he was hired with Sullivan still pulling the strings he still made his share of blunders and he also made his share of mistakes in the utilization of his ML budget, one of his biggest was signing Jose Offerman to a big FA deal etc and in 1995 signing Jose Conseco to a 5M dollar deal...are just a few examples... Perhaps his one real undoing as a GM aside from his paranoid anti social behaviors which are well documanted...Was de-invstesting in his North & Latin American scouting programs and instead spent and inordinate amount of time and resources in Asia wasting funds used to aquire international FA with little or nothing to show for it. althoug he did draft, sign and produce a lot of quality players...the sox system when Henry and Lucciono took over was close to barren.
    Posted by Beantowne[/QUOTE]

    Canseco played 2 seasons with Boston, he had OPS .933 and .989, the second was a higher OPS than his 88 MVP year with Oakland. The team won the 95 crown, and he had a rough playoff (so did Mo). What exactly did Canseco do wrong with the Red Sox for 5 mil compared to CC thus far for 20 mil....51 HR, 163 RBI in 2 seasons, not fantastic, but certainly a lot better than a lot of Sox players who were regulars over the years, and he did it with injuries those 2 seasons. Sounded to me he was a bargain at 5 mil. That was just a dumb example to use AGAINST Duquette.
     

Share