Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles?

    Spaceman - I was saying that Sweeney would be a decent lead off vRHP but I'd still have Aviles lead-off  vLHP.  The other names I mentioned were the 2-5 slots, not candidates to lead-off.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles?

    In Response to Re: Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles?:
    [QUOTE]Spaceman - I was saying that Sweeney would be a decent lead off vRHP but I'd still have Aviles lead-off  vLHP.  The other names I mentioned were the 2-5 slots, not candidates to lead-off.
    Posted by 111SoxFan111[/QUOTE]

    Sure 111.  I can see it.  Why not?  But, for my taste, I feel better, as long as he is getting on base, to have a guy who can apply some speed pressure in the lead-off spot ... but, come to think of it, I don't really know Sweeney's running ability.  Does he have decent wheels?  
     
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    Re: Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles?

    Aviles is much faster but I doubt either will apply that much SB pressure.  Career steals/attemps: Aviles is 39/52 and Sweeney is 17/26.  TBH, I don't really care that much either way since I sure hope this is a temporary.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimedfred. Show jimedfred's posts

    Re: Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles?

    In Response to Re: Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles?:
    [QUOTE]Aviles already have 3 errors.  He is currently in second place for making most errors at SS in AL.  If he play a full year, he is on the pace of making 30 plus errors for the season at the same time he would probably cause team's 10 losses.  He already cause the game last saturday.  Last year Boston's SS only made 23 errors. We cant have SS making that much errors. Yes hitting is important, but defense is more important!! If Salty, Shoppach, Youk, etc are hitting well, I could afford to have Iggy to play SS and bat 9th.  But right now these guys are not hitting well, and cant have another batter that cant hit either.  
    Posted by GoUconn13[/QUOTE]Shortstop's defensive value cannot effectively be measured by number of errors.Range , as in number of batted balls the ss gets a glove on, is MUCH more valuable a measurement. Even if the ball is merely knocked down or stopped and doesn't result in an immediate out, the alternative might have been an extra base hit. I'd prefer a ss with great range but higher error rate, such as Dave Concepcion or Garry Templeton in his prime, to a lead-footed , smaller range but more sure-handed ( fewer errors) guy like Scutaro circa 2011.
    Another consideration is arm strength, especially in speedy enough throws to get the double play after receiving a throw from second baseman. Again, in 2011 the Sox may have missed out on 1 or 2 dozen DP's due to Scoot's weak shoulder.
    A ss who makes 100 more plays yet also commits 16 more errors is still much more valuable than the errorless stiff....see Green, Nick or Jeter, Derek.

    I predicted Aviles would be slightly better with the bat than Scutaro and much better with the glove, due to range and especially arm strength. Would also have preferred Iglesias IF he supplied at least an OPS of .700.
    As for leadoff, I was wrong in assuming Pedroia or Sweeney would have been better choices, at least SO FAR.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimedfred. Show jimedfred's posts

    Re: Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles?

    Followup : Ideally the leadoff man should possess an OBP of .360 or higher, and enough base-stealing ability to force an opposing first baseman back closer to the bag, if not ON it.
    Obviously this opens a hole for the # 2 hitter, especially a l/h or switch-hitting one.Pedroia is a major r/h exception, as his skills allow him excellent results in the 2 spot. Willie Randolph was another successful r/h # 2 hitter.
    Personally think BEST 1-2 combo I ever saw was Raines & Mitch Webster in Montreal circa 1984-87. Rose & Griffey pretty good also.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles?

    Aviles at SS is a disaster waiting to happen..i really like the guy, and his attitude/hard play - but asking him to play the toughest infield position given his experience is asking a lot....i give him props for confidence...why not have the best of both worlds and get iggy up as a defensive replacment/pinch runner for mike???? 

    But SSSnake he HAS been a pleasant surprise and despite his three errors, he looks fluid to me in the infield...but i think it is hard to do well over the course of a long yr...his shortcomings will be evident...
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles?

    In Response to Re: Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles?:
    [QUOTE]Aviles at SS is a disaster waiting to happen..i really like the guy, and his attitude/hard play - but asking him to play the toughest infield position given his experience is asking a lot....i give him props for confidence...why not have the best of both worlds and get iggy up as a defensive replacment/pinch runner for mike????  But SSSnake he HAS been a pleasant surprise and despite his three errors, he looks fluid to me in the infield...but i think it is hard to do well over the course of a long yr...his shortcomings will be evident...
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]


    Again man check his career stats.  He hits 290, has a little pop and has a little speed.  What you are seeing is what he is.  
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles?

    In Response to Re: Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles?:
    [QUOTE]Aviles at SS is a disaster waiting to happen..i really like the guy, and his attitude/hard play - but asking him to play the toughest infield position given his experience is asking a lot....i give him props for confidence...why not have the best of both worlds and get iggy up as a defensive replacment/pinch runner for mike????  But SSSnake he HAS been a pleasant surprise and despite his three errors, he looks fluid to me in the infield...but i think it is hard to do well over the course of a long yr...his shortcomings will be evident...
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    I don't get the reasoning Georom.  If his natural ability and fluidity have made him a pleasant surprise thus far, and his inexperience is what is keeping from being a dependable shortstop, why would continued experience/playing do anything but improve his skills?  Its not like a young pitcher who hasn't thrown many innings and his arm is going to fall off as he accumulates innings.  Aviles will only get better.

    And I don't see any good in bringing Iggy up to just be a replacement/pinch runner.  the kid needs to play everyday, to improve his hitting and his defense (let us not forget he has 3 errors too).
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles?

    i like his play space, but that doesnt mean he is going to thrive at his position...shortstop is brtually challenging - thats all im saying...he is simply not a shortstop - he is a utility player

    Iggy by all accounts is one of the most talented fielders out there - we all know he cant hit a lick but that doesnt make Aviles any better of a fielder
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

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    In Response to Re: Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles?:
    [QUOTE]i like his play space, but that doesnt mean he is going to thrive at his position...shortstop is brtually challenging - thats all im saying...he is simply not a shortstop - he is a utility player Iggy by all accounts is one of the most talented fielders out there - we all know he cant hit a lick but that doesnt make Aviles any better of a fielder
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    OK.  But I think you are selling Mike's d short, and over selling Iggy's a bit.  Iggy has unreal hands and a decent, accurate arm.  Not certain his range is so amazing.  And he is, at this phase of his young career, error prone.  I understand the desire to buy into the myth of Iggy, given the modern history of shortstops in boston.  But he is still a work in progress, even defensively.  No need to rush him.  And, like I said, I really think the tendency is to sell Mike Aviles short (stop).  What you are seeing is what you are supposed to get with Aviles.  Aviles, in my view, is a case of a guy who can handle a starting job, but just hasn't been in the right circumstance, until now.  And, being the serious ballplayer that he is, he is making the most of it.  Not trying to change your mind per se.  in a way it is better for you if you don't buy my thinking.  This way you will keep on being pleasantly surprised by Mikey.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles?

     listened to it all Spring.  In the two seasons Aviles has had more than 400 at bats he hit 325 and 304.  Last year for the Red Sox he hit 317. He hits 290 for his career.

    In 2011, Aviles had over 300 PA and was horrible! Aviles is a butcher with the glove. His career OBP of .321 and SLG .426 might look decent if he could actually field his position well. He can't.  

    Yet all Spring a lot of people kept saying how horrible he was.  He isn't. 

    Yes, in fact, despite your infatuation with slugging SS and the Red Sox revolving door of butchers, he is horrible with the glove and after a fast start in the powerful AL central was figured out and deposited in a 2011 Gm Dumpster.
    A lot of people kept saying how ready Iggy is.  He isn't.  He has one extra base hit in 64 at bats in AAA and has made 3 errors, the same as Aviles.

    2012 in Pawtucket, v LHP, Iglesias has a .350 OBP and a .703 OPS

    The great Mike Aviles, v RP has a career OBP of .308 and a .709 OPS

    If Cherry bean counter's plan was to pay Aviles, he should not have wasted money on Punto. Avlies is a career platoon profile with limited talent. Right now, Iglesias should be helping the pitching staff by starting against all LP and getting Aviles out of the game in late innings when the Red Sox have the lead.
    Yes I know Iggy could save a hit or two here or there but in no way would it make up for the fact that Aviles is far superior offensively.  Even if a lot of you didn't know that

    Oh it most certainly would. Instead of using a 3 or 4 week sample size, let's use Aviles career profile with the stick and the glove. You will soon deny that you were a big fan of Mike Aviles the everyday Red Sox SS.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles?

    Aviles is the clear winner, Iggy will be more valuable to the Sox if they have one more year of control when hopefully he will be a much better player.  There is absolutely no reason to call him up before enough time has elapsed for the 2012 season not to count against Sox control.  Unless there is an injury.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

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    In Response to Re: Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles? : You make good points as always. My major issue was that people seemed to have no idea what Aviles can do with the bat.  If you look at his career when he gets at bats, he hits 300, steals 20 bases and hits 10 home runs. Despite that it was this constant "who is this bum". All spring long.
    Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]

    As I posted earlier, the first, simple, decision was choosing the 5-years younger Aviles over Scoot for 20% of the money.  An absolute no-brainer.

    I think Aviles' bat/game was always a solid bet whereas Iggy's noodle bat was also a solid bet, but in the opposite direction.  Defensively it was less obvious as Aviles had only played 160 or so MLB games at SS, but there was enough evidence to give him a shot with the high probability of no downgrade from Scoot.

    I also think that as Aviles grows in confidence in a hitter's park in a good lineup he will improve (over career avg, not his .932 start!).


     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles?

    There is absolutely no reason to call him up before enough time has elapsed for the 2012 season not to count against Sox control.  Unless there is an injury.

    There was absolutely no reason to call Jed Lowrie an elite All-Star MLB SS, but you did.

    There is no reason to bean count with Iglesias. It had to be either Punto or Aviles, which is beans wasted that no one pays any attention to because it's sexy to uses phrases like "until enough time has elapsed for 2012 season not to count against Sox control".
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

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    In Response to Re: Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles?:
    [QUOTE] listened to it all Spring.   In the two seasons Aviles has had more than 400 at bats he hit 325 and 304.  Last year for the Red Sox he hit 317 . He hits 290 for his career. In 2011, Aviles had over 300 PA and was horrible! Aviles is a butcher with the glove. His career OBP of .321 and SLG .426 might look decent if he could actually field his position well. He can't.   Yet all Spring a lot of people kept saying how horrible he was.  He isn't.  Yes, in fact, despite your infatuation with slugging SS and the Red Sox revolving door of butchers, he is horrible with the glove and after a fast start in the powerful AL central was figured out and deposited in a 2011 Gm Dumpster. A lot of people kept saying how ready Iggy is.  He isn't.  He has one extra base hit in 64 at bats in AAA and has made 3 errors, the same as Aviles. 2012 in Pawtucket, v LHP, Iglesias has a .350 OBP and a .703 OPS The great Mike Aviles, v RP has a career OBP of .308 and a .709 OPS If Cherry bean counter's plan was to pay Aviles, he should not have wasted money on Punto. Avlies is a career platoon profile with limited talent. Right now, Iglesias should be helping the pitching staff by starting against all LP and getting Aviles out of the game in late innings when the Red Sox have the lead. Yes I know Iggy could save a hit or two here or there but in no way would it make up for the fact that Aviles is far superior offensively .  Even if a lot of you didn't know that Oh it most certainly would. Instead of using a 3 or 4 week sample size, let's use Aviles career profile with the stick and the glove. You will soon deny that you were a big fan of Mike Aviles the everyday Red Sox SS.
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr[/QUOTE]

    Yeah lets.  He is a 290 career hitter.  What are you not getting here?  I have seen you so many times talk about his career profile.  Yeah It would be so horrible if Aviles hit 290.  I mean what would we do?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles?

    just let him hate... every player he bashes turns out to play GREAT! so thank you hank for doing your part. maybe you could hate on Iggy and he will finally learn how to hit..
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles?

    In 16 games Aviles has 5 doubles and 4 homers over 152 games that equates to 48 doubles and 38 homers.  So of course he will cool down plenty.

    Iglesias has had 8 walks in 18 games which is a great sign, but he only has one XBH (a double).   

    Even if you assume he could save 100 singles over 160 games, or ten so far.  Four extra doubles and four homers is worth a lot more than ten singles. 

    Hey Iggy we will see you in August!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles?

    In Response to Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles?:
    [QUOTE]I listened to it all Spring.  In the two seasons Aviles has had more than 400 at bats he hit 325 and 304.  Last year for the Red Sox he hit 317. He hits 290 for his career. Yet all Spring a lot of people kept saying how horrible he was.  He isn't.  A lot of people kept saying how ready Iggy is.  He isn't.  He has one extra base hit in 64 at bats in AAA and has made 3 errors, the same as Aviles. Yes I know Iggy could save a hit or two here or there but in no way would it make up for the fact that Aviles is far superior offensively.  Even if a lot of you didn't know that.
    Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]

    Iggy - or anyone that stirs the interest of possibility - is intriguing.  I remember how slick Alex R was the first time he was here and that was fun to watch.  But one got the feeling Alex was not going to be a long term solution.

    But I did constantly point out Aviles hitting success in the past.  An injury slowed him down in the one poor season he had at the plate.  He is responding better than I thought he would and will inevitably cool off some.  That's just baseball. He IS a very decent hitter though and has made me not miss Scutaro as much. 

    Besides, Yoshi has already asked him to marry her ...  that has to count for something!!!

     
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    Re: Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles?

    bump
     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
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    Re: Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles?

    In Response to Re: Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Who still wants Iggy Over Aviles? : Iggy - or anyone that stirs the interest of possibility - is intriguing.  I remember how slick Alex R was the first time he was here and that was fun to watch.  But one got the feeling Alex was not going to be a long term solution. But I did constantly point out Aviles hitting success in the past.  An injury slowed him down in the one poor season he had at the plate.  He is responding better than I thought he would and will inevitably cool off some.  That's just baseball. He IS a very decent hitter though and has made me not miss Scutaro as much.  Besides, Yoshi has already asked him to marry her ...  that has to count for something!!!
    Posted by SinceYaz[/QUOTE]
    Absolutely no rush on either Iglesias or Middlebrooks. Jose can learn to hit as long as Aviles looks passable defensively, let alone hits at leadoff like so far. Youk better come around in next month or so, however.

    And I believe Yoshimi has asked Ellsbury, Pedroia, Reddick, and Aviles to marry her just that I've seen. More power to her.
     

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