Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxforlife22. Show soxforlife22's posts

    Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.

    Would not count on Dice-K as 5th starter. He may have to replace Bard once he hits his pitch
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.

    In Response to Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.:
    Would not count on Dice-K as 5th starter. He may have to replace Bard once he hits his pitch
    Posted by soxforlife22


    Got a hunch Dice will be pitching like a #2 by end of season.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wolfpack13. Show Wolfpack13's posts

    Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.

    Roy Halladay.


     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

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    In Response to Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.:
    Miller has never had an extended strtch of success. He's had a lot of chances to prove himself, and has never gotten over the wildness issue. Others trying to win the slot have at least shown some significant periods of doing well.
    Posted by moonslav59


    Randy Johnson averaged 6 walks / game until age 29.  
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from beavis. Show beavis's posts

    Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.

    Roy Oswalt. If not give it to Eephus...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.

    Anthony Ranaudo or Matt Barnes.  well.. what's the difference??? Padilla, Doubront, Bowden, Cook, Mortensen, Olendorf, White, etc....
     
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    Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.

    Bill Lee
     
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    Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.

    In Response to Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.:
    In Response to Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation. : Got a hunch Dice will be pitching like a #2 by end of season.
    Posted by soxnewmex


    You are really reaching with that hunch !!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from natepioneer1. Show natepioneer1's posts

    Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.

    Assuming Bard is getting one and I think that it is his to lose at this point, my first choice would be ---- Padilla

    Of the “retreads” as some have referred to them, he has the best track record and could be a terrific end of rotation guy.  It depends on which Vicente Padilla, we have.  If it’s the one from 06, 08, 09, I’ll take that in this slot.  He signed a minor league contract, so they could send him down.  I don’t think that would go over well with him, nor would the bullpen.  I think he makes it as a starter or he is gone.

    Thoughts on the others

    Doubront----It’s now or never for him.  He has no options, but he would be gone in a heartbeat if they cut him.  My guess is that as long as he is reasonably effective in ST, he makes the team and for now out of the bullpen is a good place.   If he is on the team, he could spot start.  If he is in the bullpen, long relief would be a good spot, like come in the 4th when a starter blows out.  Even sixth or seventh.  If he is really good, he might even make Morales expendable at some point.

    Miller-Very similar situation to Doubront, in that he has no options.  He makes the team or they say good bye.  The elbow thing, if it not serious shouldn't make much difference.  Clearly they see something in him and hope that the guy who was drafted 8th will reach some sort of potential.  Unless he is absolutely lights out in ST, I don’t think he would start the season in the rotation.  He would be one that could also go long relief.  They are going to push this one.  My guess is that if they can find a way to get him back to AAA, they would do it, but if he is put on waivers, someone will claim him.

    Cook, Ohlendorf---These are intriguing and since both are coming off injuries, I don't think either is likely out of ST.  Both signed AAA contracts, so they can be sent down.  I think they are possible callups by May, June or in emergency.  Opt out???

    Silva--The shoulder doesn't help, but possible they keep him around and rehab him, extended ST.  Also a AAA contract, so....

    Matsuzaka will probably be back by July, maybe sooner.  They will need to find a spot for him.  He will likely get 12-18 starts.  Whether he is the guy to send Bard back to the bullpen or takes a full time role as the 5th starter, remains to be seen.  By then then, hopefully something shakes out between Padilla, Doubront, Miller, Cook, Ohlendorf, Aceves.  That's a lot of arms, one or two should do reasonably well.

    What happens with Aceves and Bard as starters maybe depend upon how the bullpen develops over the course of the year.  What kind of BPs did St. Louis and Texas have entering August.  And look where they ended up.  I mean who was Jason Motte in April, May, June even July.




    In Response to Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.:
    I think Miller has the most potential, and would be the hardest to use out of the pen.  Keep Cook in the pen - it's nice to have a sinker baller available when you absolutely need a ground ball.  All in all, I'd stick with Aceves because he's earned it.  He was great in relief last year, but if we had had five healthy quality starters, we wouldn't have noticed how great he was. 
    Posted by slomag

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from natepioneer1. Show natepioneer1's posts

    Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.

    Also forgot about Mortenson and Carpnter, who I think will have some impact in reliief at some point during the season.. Don't count out Carlson or Tazawa or even Wilson at some point


    In Response to Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.:
    Assuming Bard is getting one and I think that it is his to lose at this point, my first choice would be ---- Padilla Of the “retreads” as some have referred to them, he has the best track record and could be a terrific end of rotation guy.   It depends on which Vicente Padilla, we have.   If it’s the one from 06, 08, 09, I’ll take that in this slot.   He signed a minor league contract, so they could send him down.   I don’t think that would go over well with him, nor would the bullpen.   I think he makes it as a starter or he is gone. Thoughts on the others Doubront ----It’s now or never for him.   He has no options, but he would be gone in a heartbeat if they cut him.  My guess is that as long as he is reasonably effective in ST, he makes the team and for now out of the bullpen is a good place.   If he is on the team, he could spot start.    If he is in the bullpen, long relief would be a good spot, like come in the 4 th when a starter blows out.   Even sixth or seventh.   If he is really good, he might even make Morales expendable at some point. Miller -Very similar situation to Doubront, in that he has no options.   He makes the team or they say good bye.   The elbow thing, if it not serious shouldn't make much difference.  Clearly they see something in him and hope that the guy who was drafted 8 th will reach some sort of potential.   Unless he is absolutely lights out in ST, I don’t think he would start the season in the rotation.   He would be one that could also go long relief.   They are going to push this one.   My guess is that if they can find a way to get him back to AAA, they would do it, but if he is put on waivers, someone will claim him. Cook, Ohlendorf ---These are intriguing and since both are coming off injuries, I don't think either is likely out of ST.  Both signed AAA contracts, so they can be sent down.  I think they are possible callups by May, June or in emergency.  Opt out??? Silva --The shoulder doesn't help, but possible they keep him around and rehab him, extended ST.  Also a AAA contract, so.... Matsuzaka will probably be back by July, maybe sooner.  They will need to find a spot for him.  He will likely get 12-18 starts.  Whether he is the guy to send Bard back to the bullpen or takes a full time role as the 5th starter, remains to be seen.  By then then, hopefully something shakes out between Padilla, Doubront, Miller, Cook, Ohlendorf, Aceves.  That's a lot of arms, one or two should do reasonably well. What happens with Aceves and Bard as starters maybe depend upon how the bullpen develops over the course of the year.  What kind of BPs did St. Louis and Texas have entering August.  And look where they ended up.  I mean who was Jason Motte in April, May, June even July. In Response to Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation. :
    Posted by natepioneer1

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from beavis. Show beavis's posts

    Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.

    Whomever looks the best comming out of the Grapefruit league that BobbyV likes...its always good to have that competition...looks like Bard is slotted in the 4 spot...will be a moot point as DiceK will be the 5th guy come breaktime...

     
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    Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.

    Wakefield.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.

    In Response to Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.:
    Miller has never had an extended strtch of success. He's had a lot of chances to prove himself, and has never gotten over the wildness issue. Others trying to win the slot have at least shown some significant periods of doing well.
    Posted by moonslav59


    Hey moon, I agree with you on the Miller assessment but still not convinced anyone we picked up will or can do better.  Miller is still young and has promise which is why we kept him around so I hope he does well.  Having past success in the past, then incurring injury, age or just decline isn't much better.  I think we both agree the team needs Aceves in the pen.

    I would still choose Miller, Doubront, or maybe another youngster like Renaudo if he shows promise but would love to see someone else step up until Dice possibly recovers enough to help.  I think we also agree Aceves needs to ancor the pen again.

    Barnes is the guy I have most faith in for the future after watching him at Uconn quite a bit.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.

    The nice thing about Miller is he's not a guy that bleeds runs - if he gives up 3 runs in the first inning, chances are he's not going to work his way out of it.  If he gets through the first couple without giving up a run, chances are he's going to give you a strong game.  if you keep him on a short leash, he could be very effective as a fifth starter.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.

    In Response to Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.:
    The nice thing about Miller is he's not a guy that bleeds runs - if he gives up 3 runs in the first inning, chances are he's not going to work his way out of it.  If he gets through the first couple without giving up a run, chances are he's going to give you a strong game.  if you keep him on a short leash, he could be very effective as a fifth starter.
    Posted by slomag


    Exactly slomag, Tito at times had no clue what it meant by short leash.  If a pitcher knows hes going to be pulled quikly if things go south it will probably make him work harder on his skills and concentrate that much more if given another opportunity.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mchampion. Show Mchampion's posts

    Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.

    Padilla gets my early nod.  I would love to have a lefty also but Miller is what he is and Doubront has done nothing.  If Bard is 4 and DiceK is coming back in July you can bet Bard will move back to the pen unless he is eating up the league.  So does Cook or any of the other cheap pitchers jump out at you?  Aceves has to stay in the pen.   Pay the dam guys a little more to stay in the pen instead of going cheap he is worth it.  Look at all the money wasted on the likes of Crawford and Lackey.  Do it right Ben.   
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.

    In Response to Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.:
    Padilla gets my early nod.  I would love to have a lefty also but Miller is what he is and Doubront has done nothing.  If Bard is 4 and DiceK is coming back in July you can bet Bard will move back to the pen unless he is eating up the league.  So does Cook or any of the other cheap pitchers jump out at you?  Aceves has to stay in the pen.   Pay the dam guys a little more to stay in the pen instead of going cheap he is worth it.  Look at all the money wasted on the likes of Crawford and Lackey.  Do it right Ben.   
    Posted by Mchampion


    Hey pal, if Bard does well, I don't see him ever being in the pen again outside of the PS.  Thats exactly what we need, not washed or over paid  up veterans guys like Lackey. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mchampion. Show Mchampion's posts

    Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.

    In Response to Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.:
    In Response to Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation. : Hey pal, if Bard does well, I don't see him ever being in the pen again outside of the PS.  Thats exactly what we need, not washed or over paid  up veterans guys like Lackey. 
    Posted by craze4sox

    I agree craze.....I would love Bard to be another stud starter.  You do know they will monitor his innings and that is where DiceK comes in.  Not that I love DiceK either.  Your PS relief thought seems to be the best idea to keep Bard in the mix this year.  Then next year he is an ace in the waiting when Beckett reverts back to his chicken and beer ways
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.

    In Response to Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.:
    In Response to Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation. : I agree craze.....I would love Bard to be another stud starter.  You do know they will monitor his innings and that is where DiceK comes in.  Not that I love DiceK either.  Your PS relief thought seems to be the best idea to keep Bard in the mix this year.  Then next year he is an ace in the waiting when Beckett reverts back to his chicken and beer ways
    Posted by Mchampion


    Lets hope for the best pal, I never like to see someone go down to injury but losing Lackey may be a blessing.  Maybe not to Henry's wallet but hopefully the team.  I would love to see Dice recover well and have a rotation of Beck, Lester, Clay, Bard and Dice.

    If all pitched the way they are capable and stay healthy I would love to see someone find a better rotation.  Tampa, Phils?  Not sure if they would even compare, especially with our offense.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from natepioneer1. Show natepioneer1's posts

    Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.

    I agree.  I am guessing that they have something in mind when it comes to innings. I think they want him to have something left by September. Rather than jump him from 70+ to 175+, they need to manage the numbers. 

    It should strictly be about some hard and fast number either.  Assuming all goes reasonably well for the first half of the season, I him reaching 100, 110, maybe 120 innings and then they need to do something.  That would mean something in the neighborhood of 14-18 starts (assuming 5-6 innings per on average).  That would also mean he would be in the rotation through June and maybe past the all star break.

    At that point, Matsuzaka should be back, maybe even sooner.  That would leave Daisuke with 15 or so starts

    By putting Bard back in the bullpen, heracks up, maybe 30-50 innings.  I say the higher end is plausible, because he will be stretched out from starting and could be used in more multiple inning situations than in the past.  He may wind up in the 140-160 range before it's all said and done, but if he started all the way, he would hit 175-200 and then when the playoffs hit and they decided to put him in the bullpen, what would he have left.

    If this works and he wins 8-12 of those 14-18 starts, then he is set up well for 2013 and can then make the jump to the next inning level around 200.  If Daisuke can win 7-10, that would be at least 15 out of the 4th spot.  I think most people would be okay with that. 

    FWIW, I think they'll get about 50 out of the top three, plus or minus 2.  and in the fifth spot, if they can get even 10.  That is 75 wins from starters.  That is a reasonable goal.


    In Response to Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.:
    In Response to Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation. : I agree craze.....I would love Bard to be another stud starter.  You do know they will monitor his innings and that is where DiceK comes in.  Not that I love DiceK either.  Your PS relief thought seems to be the best idea to keep Bard in the mix this year.  Then next year he is an ace in the waiting when Beckett reverts back to his chicken and beer ways
    Posted by Mchampion

     
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    Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.

    Dice K ah.  I was in Philly the day he went into the 8th with the no no.  I was with my son and we looked at each other and said who is this guy.  He went after the hitters, no nibbling and he was terrific. 

    Actually and not to be too graphic, we made a beeline for the restroom after they got the hit.  We certainly weren't mvoing while he had the no hitter going.

    Let's give him some leeway here.  Mybe the arm issue, which required TJ was the reason forhis inconsistency.  You're right.  If Bard clicks and he comes back even reasonably well they are in pretty good shape rotation wise. 

    I also don't think it is unreasonable that one or two from Padilla, Silva, Cook, Ohlendorf, Doubront. Miller, Tazawa will make it as viable 5th starters.  That is seven and what are we looking for 10 wins, or so. And you can assume that Aceves will get some starts as well, 4-7 is my guess   They are not all likely to fail in that role.  This is why teams bring in people like that.  Valentine said he'd like 10 people who can start.  I think he has about 12 or 13 and we aren't even talking about some of the AAA guys.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from nonola. Show nonola's posts

    Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.

    Since nobody knows if Bard is going to make it.... We need an established starter. Oswalt. Otherwise I agree with everyone that puts Iglesias at SS then any ground ball guy fits.
     
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    Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.

    Assuming Oswalt even wants to go a full season and if would go to Boston, how much more is going to bring to the table than a Padilla or Cook or Matsuzaka and at what cost.

    I comapre this to the RH RF issue.  I think they amde the right move.  Cuddyer, Beltran, Qunetin, Willingham are not going to be that much more productive than Ross, especially for the money.  Cuddyer 31M for 3 years; Ross 3M for one.



    In Response to Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.:
    Since nobody knows if Bard is going to make it.... We need an established starter. Oswalt. Otherwise I agree with everyone that puts Iglesias at SS then any ground ball guy fits.
    Posted by nonola

     
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    Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.

    In response to "Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.":
    Assuming Oswalt even wants to go a full season and if would go to Boston, how much more is going to bring to the table than a Padilla or Cook or Matsuzaka and at what cost. I comapre this to the RH RF issue.  I think they amde the right move.  Cuddyer, Beltran, Qunetin, Willingham are not going to be that much more productive than Ross, especially for the money.  Cuddyer 31M for 3 years; Ross 3M for one. In Response to Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation. : Posted by natepioneer1
    Sweeney will likely get the majority of starts in rightfield since they'll face more righties, but I think people are going to like that platoon either way
     
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    Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.

    In Response to Re: Who would you like to see as the fifth starter in the Red Sox rotation.:
    I agree.  I am guessing that they have something in mind when it comes to innings. I think they want him to have something left by September. Rather than jump him from 70+ to 175+, they need to manage the numbers.  
    Posted by natepioneer1

    I see where you are going and I don't disagree that Bard's innings are probably going to be capped even if he is lights out as a starter.  But reliever innings are not the same as starter innings.  You can't say, he should be capped at 150 IP so He'll pitch 120 as a starter and 30 as a reliever ... voila, his arm is protected.  30-40 IP for a reliever is half a season's work and is probably just as much wear and tear as 80-100IP as a starter given the different routine.  Plus, shifting him between starting and the BP is a recipe for injury IMO.  If Bard does well in the rotation, I think you will see them skip some starts for him during the season or find ways to give him some extra days between starts, esp once Dice is back.  If he's doing well as a starter, they will keep him in the role all season.
     
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