Who would you rather see?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Who would you rather see?

    Middlebrooks or Betts/Cecchini? Easy one, not Middlebrooks


    Webster or Ranaudo? Ranaudo


    Why was Ranaudo sent down? I don't understand. I don't want to see Workman start any more. He's a reliever.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Who would you rather see?

    In response to ADG's comment:

    Middlebrooks or Betts/Cecchini? Easy one, not Middlebrooks

     

    Webster or Ranaudo? Ranaudo

     

    Why was Ranaudo sent down? I don't understand. I don't want to see Workman start any more. He's a reliever.




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    Pretty easy, Middlebrooks.  I have doubts about both him and Cecchini, but we have more time to decide on him.  We need a final answer WMB over the next 6 weeks.  I'm pretty sure we already know the answer, but it wouldn't make sense to substitute another rookie.  There is nothing to be gained from it.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Who would you rather see?

    I can see why they are playing Middlebrooks and Webster instead of Cecchini & Ranaudo.

    I would like to see Betts get more playing time, but I don't think he is our next 3Bman. All three of them can't field 3B worth jack. We just moved Betts to the OF, so jerking him around even more is not going to help anything.

    None of these 3 should be our 3Bmen next year. Neither should Holt or Bogey.

    We have a hundred left fielders and nobody to play SS or 3B.

    That's one thing that puzzled me about trading for Craig (blocked at 1B) and Cespedes (our 101st OF'er).

    Who would I rather see?  A real SS. A real 3Bman. That's who.

    In other words, "none of the above".

    Sox4ever

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from gibsonsg. Show gibsonsg's posts

    Re: Who would you rather see?

    Beltre at 3B, plus a bona fide ace, and we're back in business!

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: Who would you rather see?

    In response to ADG's comment:

    Middlebrooks or Betts/Cecchini? Easy one, not Middlebrooks

     

    Webster or Ranaudo? Ranaudo

     

    Why was Ranaudo sent down? I don't understand. I don't want to see Workman start any more. He's a reliever.



    I agree with you about ranaudo, webster has shown nothing that leads me to believe he will be a successful major league starter. Workman should without question be in the pen. He just doesn’t have the stuff to be a starter and has had more success at the ML level out of the pen. I don’t understand why the sox FO keeps forcing him into the rotation when the writing is on the wall. He has got hit hard practically every start in the last while. He has 2 good pitches. And on top of it all, we have other guys that will likely do a better job. (ranuado and maybe even barnes) I don’t know how the FO expects to get a better gauge on ranaudo when the send him down after each start. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Who would you rather see?

    The surefire way to get sent down is pitch a great game or 2...that's what happened to Ruby and that's what happened to Ranaudo...

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Who would you rather see?

    In response to redsoxpride34's comment:

    In response to ADG's comment:

    Middlebrooks or Betts/Cecchini? Easy one, not Middlebrooks

     

    Webster or Ranaudo? Ranaudo

     

    Why was Ranaudo sent down? I don't understand. I don't want to see Workman start any more. He's a reliever.



    I agree with you about ranaudo, webster has shown nothing that leads me to believe he will be a successful major league starter. Workman should without question be in the pen. He just doesn’t have the stuff to be a starter and has had more success at the ML level out of the pen. I don’t understand why the sox FO keeps forcing him into the rotation when the writing is on the wall. He has got hit hard practically every start in the last while. He has 2 good pitches. And on top of it all, we have other guys that will likely do a better job. (ranuado and maybe even barnes) I don’t know how the FO expects to get a better gauge on ranaudo when the send him down after each start. 




    Come on, Webster's sample size is still way too small to know anything for sure. Giving him a longer look will help us be closer to knowing for sure about his future with us. (I still believe he'd be better in the pen, but I have no issue with giving him a real chance as a starter.)

    I do agree that Workman looks to be better in the pen than as a starter, but the rest of this season is being used as a testing grounds, and maybe they want to give him one last chance to prove his value as a starter. I'm not expecting him to win a rotation slot, but I don't mind him getting a chance.

    If Ranaudo is the "real deal", he'll get his chance soon enough. I do hope he gets a look this year, and yo-yoing him may not be the best thing for him, but he should understand how these things work.

    Staring 4-5 young pitchers 3-4 times won't tell us much. Starting 2-3 young pitchers 5-7 starts will help us make better winter decisions.

    (Note: I have always been higher on Ranaudo than many posters here. He'll get a chance someday.)

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Who would you rather see?

    Webster just doesn't have the control to be a starting pitcher long term.  Webster belongs in the pen IMO.  

    "There is no try.  Do or Don't"

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Who would you rather see?

    Come on, Webster's sample size is still way too small to know anything for sure. Giving him a longer look will help us be closer to knowing for sure about his future with us. (I still believe he'd be better in the pen, but I have no issue with giving him a real chance as a starter.)

    I do agree that Workman looks to be better in the pen than as a starter, but the rest of this season is being used as a testing grounds, and maybe they want to give him one last chance to prove his value as a starter. I'm not expecting him to win a rotation slot, but I don't mind him getting a chance.

    If Ranaudo is the "real deal", he'll get his chance soon enough. I do hope he gets a look this year, and yo-yoing him may not be the best thing for him, but he should understand how these things work.

    Staring 4-5 young pitchers 3-4 times won't tell us much. Starting 2-3 young pitchers 5-7 starts will help us make better winter decisions.

    (Note: I have always been higher on Ranaudo than many posters here. He'll get a chance someday.)

    [/QUOTE]

    Absolutely Moon. You won't get a good idea on them in ST either but now they are facing MLB players with every pitch so it is either sink or swim. If Webster & Ranaudo were reversed I bet AR would be up and Webster down.

    As for Workman I think they want to see if he can be as good as he was when he was a starter in the minors with a 30-16 record with a K per inning pitched.

    Middlebrooks needs to play just to see if he can play at the MLB level????

    LOVE my  Red Sox, Bs, Cs, Pats and enjoy the ride every year. 

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Who would you rather see?

    In response to seannybboi's comment:

    Webster just doesn't have the control to be a starting pitcher long term.  Webster belongs in the pen IMO.  

    "There is no try.  Do or Don't"



    Right now, no....he would be very inconsistent, but he's shown he can still be effective his last couple starts.  Also the premise that he can't be a stater "long term" is dependent on him not seeing any improvements in his command and control, and young pitchers struggling with command and control is extremely likely.  It's not a gurantee he improves, but it is very common and when a guy has a potential for 3 plus pitches, you give him a chance.  Webster look good in his last start, and was exactly bad last night, he struggled with his command but hung in there and gave the Sox a chance to win.

    I like Ranaudo a lot too, I'm excited to see both of them pitch and continue to improve. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Who would you rather see?

    I've been calling workman a reliever for over a year.  He just doesn't have the arsenal to pitch as a starter long term. 


    He has good control, a good cutter, and if he can add some velocity in shorter stints he could tip his fastball into the plus range and he might actually be really really really good out of the pen. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Who would you rather see?

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to seannybboi's comment:

    Webster just doesn't have the control to be a starting pitcher long term.  Webster belongs in the pen IMO.  

    "There is no try.  Do or Don't"



    Right now, no....he would be very inconsistent, but he's shown he can still be effective his last couple starts.  Also the premise that he can't be a stater "long term" is dependent on him not seeing any improvements in his command and control, and young pitchers struggling with command and control is extremely likely.  It's not a gurantee he improves, but it is very common and when a guy has a potential for 3 plus pitches, you give him a chance.  Webster look good in his last start, and was exactly bad last night, he struggled with his command but hung in there and gave the Sox a chance to win.

    I like Ranaudo a lot too, I'm excited to see both of them pitch and continue to improve. 



    Raynaudo does look good. One thing I noticed about his delivery is that he seems very slow to the plate. Baserunners are going to run wild on him. Someone should be working with him to speed up his delivery a bit.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Who would you rather see?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to seannybboi's comment:

    Webster just doesn't have the control to be a starting pitcher long term.  Webster belongs in the pen IMO.  

    "There is no try.  Do or Don't"



    Right now, no....he would be very inconsistent, but he's shown he can still be effective his last couple starts.  Also the premise that he can't be a stater "long term" is dependent on him not seeing any improvements in his command and control, and young pitchers struggling with command and control is extremely likely.  It's not a gurantee he improves, but it is very common and when a guy has a potential for 3 plus pitches, you give him a chance.  Webster look good in his last start, and was exactly bad last night, he struggled with his command but hung in there and gave the Sox a chance to win.

    I like Ranaudo a lot too, I'm excited to see both of them pitch and continue to improve. 



    Raynaudo does look good. One thing I noticed about his delivery is that he seems very slow to the plate. Baserunners are going to run wild on him. Someone should be working with him to speed up his delivery a bit.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     



    Keep him away from Clay. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: Who would you rather see?

    Barnes had a good game too yesterday, he has pitched much better in 2nd half of season, after injury. Not giving up on this kid.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from sycophant123. Show sycophant123's posts

    Re: Who would you rather see?

    In response to ADG's comment:

    Middlebrooks or Betts/Cecchini? Easy one, not Middlebrooks

     

    Webster or Ranaudo? Ranaudo

     

    Why was Ranaudo sent down? I don't understand. I don't want to see Workman start any more. He's a reliever.




    Ranaudo Ba against is .267

    Webster BA against is .197

    Might have something to do with it.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Who would you rather see?

    In response to sycophant123's comment:

    In response to ADG's comment:

    Middlebrooks or Betts/Cecchini? Easy one, not Middlebrooks

     

    Webster or Ranaudo? Ranaudo

     

    Why was Ranaudo sent down? I don't understand. I don't want to see Workman start any more. He's a reliever.




    Ranaudo Ba against is .267

    Webster BA against is .197

    Might have something to do with it.



    There really isn't a question who has more unhittable stuff, but Ranaudo has a better chance of putting together the command/control. 

    The way I look at it is Webster has a better chance of being a really good pitcher, but Ranaudo has the higher floor and more of a chance of at least being a decent pitcher. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from sycophant123. Show sycophant123's posts

    Re: Who would you rather see?

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:


    In response to sycophant123's comment:


    In response to ADG's comment:


    Middlebrooks or Betts/Cecchini? Easy one, not Middlebrooks


     


    Webster or Ranaudo? Ranaudo


     


    Why was Ranaudo sent down? I don't understand. I don't want to see Workman start any more. He's a reliever.






    Ranaudo Ba against is .267


    Webster BA against is .197


    Might have something to do with it.




    There really isn't a question who has more unhittable stuff, but Ranaudo has a better chance of putting together the command/control. 


    The way I look at it is Webster has a better chance of being a really good pitcher, but Ranaudo has the higher floor and more of a chance of at least being a decent pitcher. 




    I agree,  but right now I have no problem with Ranaudo going down, he has less experience than Webster and has been getting hit. let him build more confidence and compete for a job next year.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Who would you rather see?

    I agree, but right now I have no problem with Ranaudo going down, he has less experience than Webster and has been getting hit. let him build more confidence and compete for a job next year.

    I'm not sure about Ranaudo "getting hit", but you are right about going with the most ML ready guy first. We need to make definitive decisions on a lot of players, and trying to view just a little bit of everyone will not help as much as finding out as much as possible about the most advanced players we have. Evden starting Webster evey 5 days until the end of the season might not be enough time to know anything for sure, but certainly we'll know more than if he pitches the rest of the year in AAA.

    We can delay the Ranaudo decision, even though he seems ready to be ML tested now. I see it this way, let's say we started ranaudo instead of Webster here on out, and he looks so so. Now, we'd go into 2015 not knowing who is our #5 or 6 or 7 starter. We'd have learned nothing. This way, if Webster falters, we can move him to the pen next year and move Ranaudo up a notch on the SP depth chart. 

    Of course, if Webster gives us something less than definitive, then we'd be in the same boat, but at least we'd know more about one guy than just a little about two guys.

    Sox4ever

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from sycophant123. Show sycophant123's posts

    Re: Who would you rather see?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I agree, but right now I have no problem with Ranaudo going down, he has less experience than Webster and has been getting hit. let him build more confidence and compete for a job next year.

    I'm not sure about Ranaudo "getting hit", but you are right about going with the most ML ready guy first. We need to make definitive decisions on a lot of players, and trying to view just a little bit of everyone will not help as much as finding out as much as possible about the most advanced players we have. Evden starting Webster evey 5 days until the end of the season might not be enough time to know anything for sure, but certainly we'll know more than if he pitches the rest of the year in AAA.

    We can delay the Ranaudo decision, even though he seems ready to be ML tested now. I see it this way, let's say we started ranaudo instead of Webster here on out, and he looks so so. Now, we'd go into 2015 not knowing who is our #5 or 6 or 7 starter. We'd have learned nothing. This way, if Webster falters, we can move him to the pen next year and move Ranaudo up a notch on the SP depth chart. 

    Of course, if Webster gives us something less than definitive, then we'd be in the same boat, but at least we'd know more about one guy than just a little about two guys.

    Sox4ever



    I didn't mean that he is "getting hit" in the way it may have sounded. I just meant, as I said before, the league is hitting close to .270 off him, while the league is hitting under .200 against Webster. Webster is not doing nearly as badly as people think, he has control problems so far, but other than that he has pitched very well.

    Ranaudo will be back in September, which sadly is two weeks away.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: Who would you rather see?

    When Ranaudo keeps the ball down, he is on. When he Pitches like other day, hanging Curveball, and High Strikes, he'll get pounded. Part of learning process. A Pitcher, that has high walk rate, its only a matter of time, he gets punished for this.
    Walks kill Pitchers, and hurts team as well. Kills Bullpens.
    I'll take Ranaudo.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from sycophant123. Show sycophant123's posts

    Re: Who would you rather see?

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:

    When Ranaudo keeps the ball down, he is on. When he Pitches like other day, hanging Curveball, and High Strikes, he'll get pounded. Part of learning process. A Pitcher, that has high walk rate, its only a matter of time, he gets punished for this.
    Walks kill Pitchers, and hurts team as well. Kills Bullpens.
    I'll take Ranaudo.



    We are talking for the rest of the season I assume...not forever. If we are talking forever I take Ranaudo, if we are talking the rest of the season then let him keep his confidence up.

    As I said September is two weeks away.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: Who would you rather see?

    Sounds sensible, also could be time accumulated too, for arbitration. Been following Webster, since he cane here, had high walk rate in Minors too. First thing I look at in young Pitchers, Command of strike zone.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Who would you rather see?

    I didn't mean that he is "getting hit" in the way it may have sounded. I just meant, as I said before, the league is hitting close to .270 off him, while the league is hitting under .200 against Webster. Webster is not doing nearly as badly as people think, he has control problems so far, but other than that he has pitched very well.


    Ranaudo will be back in September, which sadly is two weeks away.


    Are you seriously judging Ranudo's .270 BA against in just 52 plate appearances against Ranaudo?


    Look at the larger farm sample size:


    Ranuado  .215 in 125.2 IP


    Webster  .235 in 122 IP


     


    I still like giving Webster the shot this year, but not based on 52 PAs vs Ranaudo.


    Besides, look at OBP in MLB: Ranaudo .327/ Webster .356. A more telling stat.


     


    Sox4ever

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from sycophant123. Show sycophant123's posts

    Re: Who would you rather see?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:


    I didn't mean that he is "getting hit" in the way it may have sounded. I just meant, as I said before, the league is hitting close to .270 off him, while the league is hitting under .200 against Webster. Webster is not doing nearly as badly as people think, he has control problems so far, but other than that he has pitched very well.


     


    Ranaudo will be back in September, which sadly is two weeks away.


     


    Are you seriously judging Ranudo's .270 BA against in just 52 plate appearances against Ranaudo?


     


    Look at the larger farm sample size:


     


    Ranuado  .215 in 125.2 IP


     


    Webster  .235 in 122 IP


     


     


     


    I still like giving Webster the shot this year, but not based on 52 PAs vs Ranaudo.


     


    Besides, look at OBP in MLB: Ranaudo .327/ Webster .356. A more telling stat.


     


     


     


    Sox4ever




    I am not "seriously judging" either one of them on what has happened in just a few starts, just talking baseball. Why are you seriously judging them on the few starts they have had?


    I thought my point was obvious, most people on this board think Ranaudo is pitching well, while most think Webster isn't. I didn't think mentioning a stat meant I was "seriously judging" anyone.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Who would you rather see?

    Webster for the rest of the year should be pitching every 5th day. 

    RDLR should be pitching every 5th day.

    middlebrooks should be playing 3b everyday.

    JBJ should be playing CF everyday

    X-bo should be playing SS everyday

    Cespedes should be playing LF everyday

    Vazquez should be catching everday

     

    then lets look at the #'s at the end of the season and see what we have.

     

    other names i have posted under:  none

     
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