Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs

    Georom, I didn't have them picked for 100 wins, sorry if you fell for the media crush on these guys. I didn't see how Gonzalez/Crawford was such an upgrade on Beltre/Martinez and still don't. I think the argument was that Youk would be healthy this year (ha) as well, but still, it wasn't nearly as big an upgrade as if they had been able to hold onto even one of Beltre/Martinez. I think we see that now. 

    As for the rush to conduct a post-mortem, I realize the temptation to bury people but I for one want to see what plays out. Buch's health is improving which would make a huge difference if he can contribute, and there is a good chance the Sox still somehow make the playoffs. I want to see what the team is made of in this last stretch. Then I will join in the analysis of their demise as well. 


     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs

    In Response to Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs : Yeah, but he is fun to nail to the wall.  Still, I like that he can show humility on a message board.  I mean, how many people in the world do that ?
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    really??? are you serious??? are you saying Aceves wasnt the best solution to the pitching shortage? anyone who claims Sceves was more "valuable" cleaning up the mess of these starters already loses..so Aceves for one....

    Why Weiland? Why not Bowden...im not crazy about the guy but he's been up here before and he was worth a shot in times of crisis

    and starting a 45 year old Wake every 5 games is bound to break him down...again...so why couldnt Tito alternate between him and Miller? Less pitching load, more quality innings...we spend all season trying to save the arm of a young Bard by limiting his innings but throw Wake to the lions every fifth game no matter what the results were...thats simply dumb coaching

    What about Dourabant? Was he not worth a shot when things went South.  No one is arguing that our manager wasnt under the gun - what Im saying is that like everything else in his coaching arsenal, it is too passive and uncreative/prone to habit.

    Now look at my solutions and tell me they werent easy to do and simply required a bit of creative thiking


    now tell me with a straight face our manager made the right decisions...

    f'n unbelievable
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs

    Ultimately ownership, Theo and Francona... In reality, it's 100% on the pitching staff.  I'm tired of hearing people blame Crawford for this.  Yes, he's having an awful year but look at the years that Ellsbury, Pedroia, Ortiz, the catchers, A-Gon are having.  This is not on the lineup, this is all on the pitching.  At some point, starters have to be able to give 7 or 8 IP with 1 or 2 ER runs.  If they would have been able to do that more often, then they could win more close games.  Instead you have Lackey who has been the worst pitcher in MLB baseball this year.  You have Wakefield who cared only about getting his 200th win and took 8 starts to get it and even the win itself was a poor performance.  Then you have Miller and Weiland who to their defense either aren't major league ready or just aren't good.  Beckett and Lester have been solid for the majority of the season but have picked a very bad time to slump.  Finally, Bedard has been solid with the team and I think he's given them what they were looking for.  The problem is that his injury kind of hammered the value of the trade.

    As for the bullpen, outside of Aceves, Papelbon and Bard (minus of late), they've been awful.  Maybe that's because the starters haven't gone deep this year and it's finally effected the bullpen... Who knows.

    All i know is that it's hard to blame the offense for any of this when as a collective unit, they've done their jobs.  Without pitching, a team can only win so many games.

    At the end of the day, Theo and Francona should take responsibility for this but I fully encourage them to take a shot at Lackey for simply not living up to 10 cents of his contract.  I just checked the game logs and I'm going to say that even if he pitched to 50% of his worth, the Sox would have 7-8 more wins right now. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SculEsqare. Show SculEsqare's posts

    Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs

    Let the light shine on Tito, he's steering the ship but his every many fo himself crew jumped overboard a long time ago!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wolfpack13. Show Wolfpack13's posts

    Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs

    Blame for what? Sox making the playoffs and losing to Phils in World Series?
    Sox will make the playoffs, Sox will get by Texas and Detroit. Yes that's right 27 rings and 50 playoff appearances won't muster hapless 1 man starting rotation of the Yankees to get by the Tigers. At the end of this all it will look like a successful season... well, that is in the eyes of people who know the game. Even if Sox make it to World Series and lose the "FIRE (fill in name here)" will start.

    Sox fans will always be pessistic and I was too before 2004. It changed my life and it should change yours. Now shut up and watch the games, root and enjoy this run.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs

    In Response to Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs:
    [QUOTE]Blame for what? Sox making the playoffs and losing to Phils in World Series? Sox will make the playoffs, Sox will get by Texas and Detroit. Yes that's right 27 rings and 50 playoff appearances won't muster hapless 1 man starting rotation of the Yankees to get by the Tigers. At the end of this all it will look like a successful season... well, that is in the eyes of people who know the game. Even if Sox make it to World Series and lose the "FIRE (fill in name here)" will start. Sox fans will always be pessistic and I was too before 2004. It changed my life and it should change yours. Now shut up and watch the games, root and enjoy this run.
    Posted by Wolfpack13[/QUOTE]

    2 man rotation - thank you. Don't forget the rookie of the year Nova.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs

    In Response to Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs : 2 man rotation - thank you. Don't forget the rookie of the year Nova.
    Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE]

    AL Rookie of the year belongs to Mark Trumbo.
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_4411895. Show user_4411895's posts

    Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs

    In Response to Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs : AL Rookie of the year belongs to Mark Trumbo.
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988[/QUOTE]

    Check back in a month.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs

    In Response to Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs:
    [QUOTE]Is it really necessary to try to assign blame? What's really gained by doing that?
    Posted by davetheknave[/QUOTE]

    A general consensus for who specifically deserves the most blame.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_4411939. Show user_4411939's posts

    Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs

    In Response to Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs : AL Rookie of the year belongs to Mark Trumbo.
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988[/QUOTE]

    Nope a very low OBP and a lot of strikeouts, Nova will be ROY
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs

    1-Buchholz's injury
    2-Lackey
    3-Dice's injury
    4-Crawford
    5-Jenks
    6-Drew's injury

    Obviously, Lackey, Crawford, and Jenks accrue to Theo's account.


     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs

    In Response to Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs : really??? are you serious??? are you saying Aceves wasnt the best solution to the pitching shortage? anyone who claims Sceves was more "valuable" cleaning up the mess of these starters already loses..so Aceves for one.... Why Weiland? Why not Bowden...im not crazy about the guy but he's been up here before and he was worth a shot in times of crisis and starting a 45 year old Wake every 5 games is bound to break him down...again...so why couldnt Tito alternate between him and Miller? Less pitching load, more quality innings...we spend all season trying to save the arm of a young Bard by limiting his innings but throw Wake to the lions every fifth game no matter what the results were...thats simply dumb coaching What about Dourabant? Was he not worth a shot when things went South.  No one is arguing that our manager wasnt under the gun - what Im saying is that like everything else in his coaching arsenal, it is too passive and uncreative/prone to habit. Now look at my solutions and tell me they werent easy to do and simply required a bit of creative thiking now tell me with a straight face our manager made the right decisions... f'n unbelievable
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]
    Given how awful the pitching has been this season, it's easy to say they should have done something different. Maybe they should have. I just don't see any better options.

    Maybe Aceves would have worked. Only problem is, it's hard to take a guy averaging 2 IP an appearance and expect him to suddenly throw 6 or 7 every time out. His numbers are far worse in his four starts: 5.14 ERA vs. 2.10 as a reliever. Granted, those numbers are better than Wake, Miller or Lackey. But not enough to where I'd risk losing him where he's most valuable.

    Doubront: In his last two start for the PawSox, he gave up a combined 11 earned in four innings. Though, again, I doubt he could do any worse than Miller or Weiland ... or Wakefield or Lackey.

    Bowden: Hasn't started all year. Again, just can't go from averaging 1 1/3 innings an appearance to 6-7 just like that.

    Did Tito make the right decisions? Given the results, it's hard to say that. But in his defense, his options were very, very limited. And for that, maybe there's someone else to blame.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs

    In Response to Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs : 2 man rotation - thank you. Don't forget the rookie of the year Nova.
    Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE]
    Lester and Josh, then pray for rain, by gosh.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs

    Al Qaeda
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs

    In Response to Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs:
    [QUOTE]Al Qaeda
    Posted by tcal2-[/QUOTE]
    Is he a pitcher?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from bornin1967. Show bornin1967's posts

    Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs

    In Response to Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs : So much blame to go around, it's a useless exercise to whittle it down to a couple of folks.  Players mostly.  Beckett - see his last start against the O's?  When was the last time Lester came up big?  When did he last make an impressive start instead of going 4, 5, or at best 6 with over 100 pitches.  Four early runs against TB last time out - great stuff from a supposed ace!  AGon - since the all-star break?  Youk - lost season.  Drew, the entirety of the bullpen less Aceves and Paps?  Bench?  What bench?  CC - pulheeese!  Again, it's the players that have been folding easeir than a lawn chair.  Not Tito, not Theo, not management, not ownership - out-and-out players.  Only guy performing better than expected - Ellsbury.  Only knock on Tito - when Wake starts (especially earlier in the year) - he decides to rest half the lineup and plays our AAA team - gee, wonder why it took Wake so many starts to get to 200.  Other than that, I don't have a problem with Tito.  Our players have met the enemy.....and it is them.  They, not anyone else, don't do-the-do in the next few games - they and they alone will be responsible for this dreadful September.  One more thing - during our awful start, everyone was saying "oh, it only April."  I've often wondered why wins in April don't "mean as much" as wins in September.  Go .500 the first three weeks of the year and we're not in this mess.  My apologies for the rant - too many beers, too few patience - LOL :).
    Posted by gr82bme[/QUOTE]
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bornin1967. Show bornin1967's posts

    Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs

    Despite the beers, this was the best post on the subject.  Can't blame Francona when you're throwing two pitchers who aren't ready for prime time (Weiland and Miller), two pitchers whose readiness for prime time has passed (Lackey and Wakefield), and a lame lefty (Bedard).  None of those guys can even get into the sixth inning.  How is that Francona's fault?  Theo is more to blame, because his excursions into free agency have been busts.  Am I correct that Scutaro was the best free agent signing in the last five years?  Sorry, it's not Drew, Lugo, Crawford, Lackey, Jenks, Matsuzaka, or Wheeler.  Nonetheless, the players show up to play and need to be held responsible.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxlaxer12. Show redsoxlaxer12's posts

    Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs

    The Boston Red Sox
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_4411939. Show user_4411939's posts

    Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs

    In Response to Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs : Is he a pitcher?
    Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE]

    Al Qaeda

    He is a pitcher, heck of a curveball.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ABQDan. Show ABQDan's posts

    Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs

    "Is he a pitcher?"

    Qaeda was once a highly regarded prospect in the Astros organization, but had five Tommy John surgeries in three years and has been all but forgotten.

    "We like his numbers from 2006, and think he could be a valuable piece to the puzzle" says Boston GM Theo Epstein.  "He's into making things collapse and burn, and that's one of our organizational values."
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dollkuhn. Show dollkuhn's posts

    Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs

    Crawford just ended the inning!  He has my #1 offense vote.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs

    In Response to Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who's to blame if the redsox dont make the playoffs : really??? are you serious??? are you saying Aceves wasnt the best solution to the pitching shortage? anyone who claims Sceves was more "valuable" cleaning up the mess of these starters already loses..so Aceves for one.... Why Weiland? Why not Bowden...im not crazy about the guy but he's been up here before and he was worth a shot in times of crisis and starting a 45 year old Wake every 5 games is bound to break him down...again...so why couldnt Tito alternate between him and Miller? Less pitching load, more quality innings...we spend all season trying to save the arm of a young Bard by limiting his innings but throw Wake to the lions every fifth game no matter what the results were...thats simply dumb coaching What about Dourabant? Was he not worth a shot when things went South.  No one is arguing that our manager wasnt under the gun - what Im saying is that like everything else in his coaching arsenal, it is too passive and uncreative/prone to habit. Now look at my solutions and tell me they werent easy to do and simply required a bit of creative thiking now tell me with a straight face our manager made the right decisions... f'n unbelievable
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    I come back in two days and see the "better options" were Aceves, Doubront and Bowden.

    There ia a major difference between the words "better" and "different."  While these pitchers might have given a betetr outing, there is NOTHING to suggest they were smarter options.

    The mere fact that you chose Bowden shows you are grasping at straws.  When was his lat MLB start?  What has he done sice then to show he is a better option an as MLB starting pitcher?

    Doubront might have been a good choice, but he was limited to 80IP in the minors this year DUE TO INJURIES.  He also has not exactly dazzled since coming to MLB.  Maybe he had an inning here or there you liked, but why he will suddenly piece together 7 at this level is beyond me.  He might pull it off, but that is a case of defying the odds, not because he is a better option.

    As for Aceves, get real.  He has a 5.14ERA asa starter, already has a career high in IP, and has not started a game since June.  Just because a guy is throwing well in the bullpen does not mewan he will automatically handle the rotation.

    So - you said there were better options.  No, there really weren't.  The Sox desperately needed better options.

    I mean, you came back with Michael Bowden?  And then told other people to get real?
     

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