Why all the LOVE for FAT-CAT-BECKETT$ ?? In the last days of THEOS WATCH...........

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Why all the LOVE for FAT-CAT-BECKETT$ ?? In the last days of THEOS WATCH...........

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to Iceman4's comment:

     

    Big year for Beckett this year Bill......you watch

     



    It's an odd year, so...

     

    01  1.50

    02  4.10

    03  3.04

    04  3.79

    05  3.38

    06  5.01

    07  3.27

    08  4.03

    09  3.86

    10  5.78

    11  2.89

    12  4.65

    Josh has never had an odd year ERA higher than his best even year ERA (3.79), except his 3.86 ERA in '09.

    It's been up and down every single season of his career.

    Thanks MOON.......  Looking at the overall time with the Sox ONE/I would say that because of the other good pitchers around him (Schilling,Lester, Buch, & Bullpen) the "FAT-CAT"  was a SOLID  # 3+ Starter........ And during that time, all of "his other stuff" probably reduced his "real value" to the team to a 3-3A.....   It is what it is, SON !!!!!!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why all the LOVE for FAT-CAT-BECKETT$ ?? In the last days of THEOS WATCH...........

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to Iceman4's comment:

     

    Big year for Beckett this year Bill......you watch

     



    It's an odd year, so...

     

    01  1.50

    02  4.10

    03  3.04

    04  3.79

    05  3.38

     

    Josh has never had an odd year ERA higher than his best even year ERA (3.79), except his 3.86 ERA in '09.

    It's been up and down every single season of his career.

     

    Thanks MOON.......  Looking at the overall time with the Sox ONE/I would say that because of the other good pitchers around him (Schilling,Lester, Buch, & Bullpen) the "FAT-CAT"  was a SOLID  # 3+ Starter........ And during that time, all of "his other stuff" probably reduced his "real value" to the team to a 3-3A.....   It is what it is, SON !!!!!!

     



    Since joining the Sox...

    06  16-11 5.01  (#2 behind Schill's 15-7  3.97)

    07  20-7   3.27  (#1 and a bull in the playoffs)

    08  12-10 4.03  (#3 behind Lester and Dice-K though better WHIP)

    09  17-6   3.86  (T#1 with Lester, but better record and WHIP)

    10   6 - 6  5.78  (#6 starter)

    11  13-7   2.89  (#1 starter due to way better ERA/WHIP > Lester)

    12  5- 11  4.65  (#4 but 0.001 away from best WHIP)

    I'd say overall, Beckett has been our #1 since 2006, but one could easily argue he's been the #2 behind Lester from 2008-2012. He has not been our #3. Who's better? Dice-K? Wake? Lackey?

    Her'e the combined numbers from 2006-2012:

    1) Beckett  89-58  4.17  1.22

    2) Lester    85-48  3.77  1.31

    3) Wake     56-56  4.79  1.34

    4) Dice-K   50-36   4.50  1.41

    5) Buch      45-32   3.93  1.34

    6) Lackey  26-23  5.26   1.50

     

    From 2007-2012:

    1) Beckett  73-47  4.00  1.21

    2) Lester    78-46  3.69  1.28

    3) Buch      45-32  3.93  1.34

    4) Wake     49-45  4.82  1.34

    5) Lackey  26-23   5.26  1.50

     

    MLB from 2007-2012 WAR:

    9)  Beckett  25.1 

    11) Lester   24.7

    71) Dice-K   10.5

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Why all the LOVE for FAT-CAT-BECKETT$ ?? In the last days of THEOS WATCH...........

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to Iceman4's comment:

     

    Big year for Beckett this year Bill......you watch

     



    It's an odd year, so...

     

    01  1.50

    02  4.10

    03  3.04

    04  3.79

    05  3.38

     

    Josh has never had an odd year ERA higher than his best even year ERA (3.79), except his 3.86 ERA in '09.

    It's been up and down every single season of his career.

     

    Thanks MOON.......  Looking at the overall time with the Sox ONE/I would say that because of the other good pitchers around him (Schilling,Lester, Buch, & Bullpen) the "FAT-CAT"  was a SOLID  # 3+ Starter........ And during that time, all of "his other stuff" probably reduced his "real value" to the team to a 3-3A.....   It is what it is, SON !!!!!!

     

     



    Since joining the Sox...

     

    06  16-11 5.01  (#2 behind Schill's 15-7  3.97)

    07  20-7   3.27  (#1 and a bull in the playoffs)

    08  12-10 4.03  (#3 behind Lester and Dice-K though better WHIP)

    09  17-6   3.86  (T#1 with Lester, but better record and WHIP)

    10   6 - 6  5.78  (#6 starter)

    11  13-7   2.89  (#1 starter due to way better ERA/WHIP > Lester)

    12  5- 11  4.65  (#4 but 0.001 away from best WHIP)

    I'd say overall, Beckett has been our #1 since 2006, but one could easily argue he's been the #2 behind Lester from 2008-2012. He has not been our #3. Who's better? Dice-K? Wake? Lackey?

    Her'e the combined numbers from 2006-2012:

    1) Beckett  89-58  4.17  1.22

    2) Lester    85-48  3.77  1.31

    3) Wake     56-56  4.79  1.34

    4) Dice-K   50-36   4.50  1.41

    5) Buch      45-32   3.93  1.34

    6) Lackey  26-23  5.26   1.50

     

    From 2007-2012:

    1) Beckett  73-47  4.00  1.21

    2) Lester    78-46  3.69  1.28

    3) Buch      45-32  3.93  1.34

    4) Wake     49-45  4.82  1.34

    5) Lackey  26-23   5.26  1.50

     

    MLB from 2007-2012 WAR:

    9)  Beckett  25.1 

    11) Lester   24.7

    71) Dice-K   10.5

     

      It's a #'s game.......   As DAD would say.........  "SON, CERTAINLY NOTHING TO WRITE HOME ABOUT"  !!!     Quite frankly, that 64mil reupt by THEO ranks right up there with AL GORES 100mil made on his sale of the TV company to the middle east.... Heck, it's bad enough that we have to buy their oil, now they are on American TV......

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Why all the LOVE for FAT-CAT-BECKETT$ ?? In the last days of THEOS WATCH...........

    Since Beckett plays for LA now, do you suppose it would be all right to stop talking about him?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Why all the LOVE for FAT-CAT-BECKETT$ ?? In the last days of THEOS WATCH...........

    In response to carnie's comment:

    Since Beckett plays for LA now, do you suppose it would be all right to stop talking about him?

      YOUR right Carnie.......  Im just soooo giddy over the fact that we were able to move the barrrrrrstad out !!!!  Pinch myself every day !!!

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Why all the LOVE for FAT-CAT-BECKETT$ ?? In the last days of THEOS WATCH...........

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    In response to carnie's comment:

     

    Since Beckett plays for LA now, do you suppose it would be all right to stop talking about him?

     

      YOUR right Carnie.......  Im just soooo giddy over the fact that we were able to move the barrrrrrstad out !!!!  Pinch myself every day !!!

     



    Well then stop bringing him up. You seem to be the only poster here that really wants to talk about him.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Why all the LOVE for FAT-CAT-BECKETT$ ?? In the last days of THEOS WATCH...........

    In response to carnie's comment:

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

     

    In response to carnie's comment:

     

    Since Beckett plays for LA now, do you suppose it would be all right to stop talking about him?

     

      YOUR right Carnie.......  Im just soooo giddy over the fact that we were able to move the barrrrrrstad out !!!!  Pinch myself every day !!!

     

     



    Well then stop bringing him up. You seem to be the only poster here that really wants to talk about him.

     

      Moving on to the TRUCK departure on the road to ST 2013   !!!    GO SOX !!

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Why all the LOVE for FAT-CAT-BECKETT$ ?? In the last days of THEOS WATCH...........

      Baldy ......... Ya see what you have done !!!!!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Why all the LOVE for FAT-CAT-BECKETT$ ?? In the last days of THEOS WATCH...........

    Where did my post go I said nothing bad about anyone. 

    Trading the 3 was a mistake. We have not gotten better players than what we traded. We will have an issue at 1st and LF this yr and probably next. We also have not replaced Josh with a pitcher as capable as him. The money saved IMHO what's not been spent on improvements but stop gap measures.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Why all the LOVE for FAT-CAT-BECKETT$ ?? In the last days of THEOS WATCH...........

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:

    Where did my post go I said nothing bad about anyone. 

    Trading the 3 was a mistake. We have not gotten better players than what we traded. We will have an issue at 1st and LF this yr and probably next. We also have not replaced Josh with a pitcher as capable as him. The money saved IMHO what's not been spent on improvements but stop gap measures.



    I agree with everything you said except trading the 3 being a mistake. 

    I agree that we have not gotten better potential players than what we traded.  No pitcher the Sox have picked up has the potential that Beckett has.  Problem is, Beckett had a down year last year along with the possibility that he's become a clubhouse cancer.  So they unloaded the risk - and his salary.

    I agree that we haven't picked up anyone with the potential of CC either.  But even CC has now said that he wasn't comfortable playing in Boston, something that was obvious to anyone who watched him.  So they were able to unload him and his salary to a place where he may be more comfy.  In th process they've unloaded an albatross of a salary that would have hamstrung the team for years.  That's not a problem if he's producing... but it's a HUGE problem if he's not.  And is lack of comfort here makes me think he may not produce.  Again, the unloaded the risk and his salary.

    And I agree that they haven't picked up anyone with nearly the potential of Gonzales.  But letting him go was the only way the Dodgers were going to take the other two.  In addition to that I'm not at all sure Gonzales was a clubhouse fit for Boston.  It's a tough environment to play in.  We like our players who produce to also be outgoing people, clubhouse leaders,and that's not Gonzales's personality.  Again, a very good player but maybe a poor fit.

    And I agree that everything they've done is a stopgap measure.  One and two year contracts. Those contracts get the Sox through 2013 and 2014 when the crop of minor leaguers will (hopefully) be able to contribute.  I don't see that as being a bad strategy.  It's going to be frustrating to watch this team win 80-85 games this year but.... patience is a virtue.  I think this is going to pay off in the long run.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from bald-predictions. Show bald-predictions's posts

    Re: Why all the LOVE for FAT-CAT-BECKETT$ ?? In the last days of THEOS WATCH...........

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

      Baldy ......... Ya see what you have done !!!!!



    Sorry about that

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Why all the LOVE for FAT-CAT-BECKETT$ ?? In the last days of THEOS WATCH...........

    In response to S5's comment:

     

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:

     

    Where did my post go I said nothing bad about anyone. 

    Trading the 3 was a mistake. We have not gotten better players than what we traded. We will have an issue at 1st and LF this yr and probably next. We also have not replaced Josh with a pitcher as capable as him. The money saved IMHO what's not been spent on improvements but stop gap measures.

     



    I agree with everything you said except trading the 3 being a mistake. 

     

    I agree that we have not gotten better potential players than what we traded.  No pitcher the Sox have picked up has the potential that Beckett has.  Problem is, Beckett had a down year last year along with the possibility that he's become a clubhouse cancer.  So they unloaded the risk - and his salary.

    I agree that we haven't picked up anyone with the potential of CC either.  But even CC has now said that he wasn't comfortable playing in Boston, something that was obvious to anyone who watched him.  So they were able to unload him and his salary to a place where he may be more comfy.  In th process they've unloaded an albatross of a salary that would have hamstrung the team for years.  That's not a problem if he's producing... but it's a HUGE problem if he's not.  And is lack of comfort here makes me think he may not produce.  Again, the unloaded the risk and his salary.

    And I agree that they haven't picked up anyone with nearly the potential of Gonzales.  But letting him go was the only way the Dodgers were going to take the other two.  In addition to that I'm not at all sure Gonzales was a clubhouse fit for Boston.  It's a tough environment to play in.  We like our players who produce to also be outgoing people, clubhouse leaders,and that's not Gonzales's personality.  Again, a very good player but maybe a poor fit.

    And I agree that everything they've done is a stopgap measure.  One and two year contracts. Those contracts get the Sox through 2013 and 2014 when the crop of minor leaguers will (hopefully) be able to contribute.  I don't see that as being a bad strategy.  It's going to be frustrating to watch this team win 80-85 games this year but.... patience is a virtue.  I think this is going to pay off in the long run.

     



    It will also allow them to have some financial flexability when there is a better free agent market.

     

    This past off season was nothing to brag about, in terms of free agents.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why all the LOVE for FAT-CAT-BECKETT$ ?? In the last days of THEOS WATCH...........

    Trading the 3 was a mistake. We have not gotten better players than what we traded. We will have an issue at 1st and LF this yr and probably next. We also have not replaced Josh with a pitcher as capable as him. The money saved IMHO what's not been spent on improvements but stop gap measures.

    I agree. We played it halfway and ended up with near the "worst of both worlds".

    I loved the trade with the Dodgers, but I expected better results than this. The only redeeming value is that the length of the deals allows us to retool (or trade them) after seeing how much the guys we got are not great enough to lead us anywhere near a ring.

    If Gomes hit RHPs instead of LHPs, he'd be better than CC.

    If Beckett has his normal odd year revival, he will have a better season than any of our 5 starters.

    AGon is an enigma.

    Punto is Punto.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Why all the LOVE for FAT-CAT-BECKETT$ ?? In the last days of THEOS WATCH...........

    i will add my two cents in here...

    as far as beckett goes - no one on this board with the exception of andrewmitch was against this extention given to beckett...people were for it based on beckett's playoff record and his ability to win a big game...the only other person who was concerned about him was me - and thats because i saw him getting fatter and more unconditioned each season...when i brought that up, i was literally shouted down saying it had no bearing on his performance....but i cant say that i was against him being re-signed....however it is kind of sad when we have smart posters like Moon shrugging their shouldrs and saying things like "if beckett pitched like he did every other season..."

    seriously what kind of nonsense is this? he shouldve been ready to dominate every year...that fact that he wasnt shows me how lazy he was about maximizing his god given talent....it wasnt luck, it was lack of effort that led to his uneven records...why would anyone lament trading this guy at all? (and we're not even talking about his chicken/beer/golf/my off day is my off day idiocy...)

    at least Agon played everygame....but a bad trade? thank god for magic johnson everyday sox fans...good riddance

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Why all the LOVE for FAT-CAT-BECKETT$ ?? In the last days of THEOS WATCH...........

    In response to georom4's comment:

    i will add my two cents in here...

    as far as beckett goes - no one on this board with the exception of andrewmitch was against this extention given to beckett...people were for it based on beckett's playoff record and his ability to win a big game...the only other person who was concerned about him was me - and thats because i saw him getting fatter and more unconditioned each season...when i brought that up, i was literally shouted down saying it had no bearing on his performance....but i cant say that i was against him being re-signed....however it is kind of sad when we have smart posters like Moon shrugging their shouldrs and saying things like "if beckett pitched like he did every other season..."

    seriously what kind of nonsense is this? he shouldve been ready to dominate every year...that fact that he wasnt shows me how lazy he was about maximizing his god given talent....it wasnt luck, it was lack of effort that led to his uneven records...why would anyone lament trading this guy at all? (and we're not even talking about his chicken/beer/golf/my off day is my off day idiocy...)

    at least Agon played everygame....but a bad trade? thank god for magic johnson everyday sox fans...good riddance



    Now, for the sake of nuance, I will say, that though I bristled at your incessant chicken & beer critiques, and while I accepted the Beckett extension as necessary given the staff at that time, I was with you and expressed many times that I thought his lack of conditioning was the caues of his inconsistent performance and his annual clockwork DL stints.  As I have said before, his contract extension should have been contingent on his daily participation in Spaceman's Yoga Wellness Regimen.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Why all the LOVE for FAT-CAT-BECKETT$ ?? In the last days of THEOS WATCH...........

     

    Thanks to Beckett's stellar performance in game 5 of the 2007 ALCS vs. the Indians, the Red Sox were able to advance to the World Series and win it all.  

    When Beckett returns to Fenway, he deserves a warm applause.  

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why all the LOVE for FAT-CAT-BECKETT$ ?? In the last days of THEOS WATCH...........

    i will add my two cents in here...

    as far as beckett goes - no one on this board with the exception of andrewmitch was against this extention given to beckett...people were for it based on beckett's playoff record and his ability to win a big game...the only other person who was concerned about him was me - and thats because i saw him getting fatter and more unconditioned each season...when i brought that up, i was literally shouted down saying it had no bearing on his performance....but i cant say that i was against him being re-signed....however it is kind of sad when we have smart posters like Moon shrugging their shouldrs and saying things like "if beckett pitched like he did every other season..."

    Facts:

    1) He has "pitched like he did every other season" since the extension.

    2) softy was the most vocal poster against the extension from day one. You were against it as well, but softy went ballistic.

    3) Several posters, not me included, said we should have waited until after the season to extend him. In hindsight, that was the winning move, but had Beckett went on to have a great 2010 season, he'd have cost much more or walked. It was a gamble that actually ended up not being a loss. Beckett had a great 2011 season and we got out from under the deal in 2012 with some decent prospects to show for it.

     

    seriously what kind of nonsense is this? he shouldve been ready to dominate every year...that fact that he wasnt shows me how lazy he was about maximizing his god given talent....it wasnt luck, it was lack of effort that led to his uneven records...why would anyone lament trading this guy at all? (and we're not even talking about his chicken/beer/golf/my off day is my off day idiocy...)

    Look what worse pitchers than Beckett got this year.

     

    at least Agon played everygame....but a bad trade? thank god for magic johnson everyday sox fans...good riddance

    Soon, you will be bashing Ben about Dempster...

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why all the LOVE for FAT-CAT-BECKETT$ ?? In the last days of THEOS WATCH...........

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

     

    Thanks to Beckett's stellar performance in game 5 of the 2007 ALCS vs. the Indians, the Red Sox were able to advance to the World Series and win it all.  

    When Beckett returns to Fenway, he deserves a warm applause.  



    How soon we forget.

    Before we ever won a ring, Sox fans seemed to love the bumbling players. Bill Lee, Greenwell, and others, but once we got the taste of victory, fans expect perfection every year from every player.

    Beckett is human. He nearly single-handedly got us the 2007 ring.  He has made mistakes. Some choose to remember only the latter. Some the former. Some the overall body of work.

    How many starting pitchers in our memory have the Sox have that pitched better in the playoffs?

    Schilling & Beckett. Is that enough for you guys to lighten up a bit on a fellow human being? 

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Why all the LOVE for FAT-CAT-BECKETT$ ?? In the last days of THEOS WATCH...........

    In response to georom4's comment:

    i will add my two cents in here...

    as far as beckett goes - no one on this board with the exception of andrewmitch was against this extention given to beckett...people were for it based on beckett's playoff record and his ability to win a big game...the only other person who was concerned about him was me - and thats because i saw him getting fatter and more unconditioned each season...when i brought that up, i was literally shouted down saying it had no bearing on his performance....but i cant say that i was against him being re-signed....however it is kind of sad when we have smart posters like Moon shrugging their shouldrs and saying things like "if beckett pitched like he did every other season..."

    seriously what kind of nonsense is this? he shouldve been ready to dominate every year...that fact that he wasnt shows me how lazy he was about maximizing his god given talent....it wasnt luck, it was lack of effort that led to his uneven records...why would anyone lament trading this guy at all? (and we're not even talking about his chicken/beer/golf/my off day is my off day idiocy...)

    at least Agon played everygame....but a bad trade? thank god for magic johnson everyday sox fans...good riddance

    Gerome.... Thank You....  You do need to add Bill-806 & DAD , just for everything that you said !!

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why all the LOVE for FAT-CAT-BECKETT$ ?? In the last days of THEOS WATCH...........

    seriously what kind of nonsense is this? he shouldve been ready to dominate every year...that fact that he wasnt shows me how lazy he was about maximizing his god given talent....it wasnt luck, it was lack of effort that led to his uneven records...why would anyone lament trading this guy at all? (and we're not even talking about his chicken/beer/golf/my off day is my off day idiocy...)

     


    Who is "lamenting the trade"?

    I called it the best Sox trade of my lifetime.

    I'm only pointing out that not everyone is perfect, and many here are focusing only on Josh's negatives. Also, it is not a given that if Josh was in tip-top physical shape, he'd have not been up and down. CC Sabathia seems to be doing fine year in and year out, but as soon as he has a bad year, his weight will suddenly become "the issue". Some pitchers might do better with "extra weight". It didn't seem to hurt Schilling. We remember him fondly, even though he had some "down years" over his career as well as injuries.

    Josh is gone. He had some good years, some bad years, and a great post season for us. Let's move on and be thankful we have some good prospects to show for it.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Why all the LOVE for FAT-CAT-BECKETT$ ?? In the last days of THEOS WATCH...........

    Jim was lamenting the trade moon...and you are still making excuses for beckett's inconsistencies...i gess if you cant sabermetric it, you cant analyze it... yea he was great in 2007, but he has cost us more than a few seasons..especially 2011

    any opinion of beckett's career without mentioning his work ethic, attitude, and corosive influence is a joke...

     

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