Why are people so anxious to mess with our starters?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Why are people so anxious to mess with our starters?

    We should (Dempster aside) not move anyone out let alone worry about who we can bring in. We have all the pitching we need and come July if things are not so good we have all the money we need to make an aquisition.

    Peavey and Lackey need to start 2014 here. Dempster I want gone because like Wakefield before him he is simply blocking better options.

    We did just win the WS just in case some of you don't care for our guys.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why are people so anxious to mess with our starters?

    Because we have 6 starters plus Morales, Workman, Britton, Ranaudo, Owens and others, and we also have 4-5 holes to fill with just $32M to spend.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Why are people so anxious to mess with our starters?

    oh yeah but let me post 18 comments about Kuroda.... gee wiz. Exactly why Dempster needs to go (he cloggs up the #5) - not Peavy and not Lackey

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Why are people so anxious to mess with our starters?

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    oh yeah but let me post 18 comments about Kuroda.... gee wiz. Exactly why Dempster needs to go - not Peavy and not Lackey

    [/QUOTE]


    Kuroda...lol

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Why are people so anxious to mess with our starters?

    lol x 2... the stuck up snob was the one preaching about him.

    We finally are getting our money for Lackey, Peavey can be very good, and with Buch fragile I don't want to rely on unproven players for 2 slots.

     

    Go Sox!

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Why are people so anxious to mess with our starters?

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We should (Dempster aside) not move anyone out let alone worry about who we can bring in. We have all the pitching we need and come July if things are not so good we have all the money we need to make an aquisition.

    Peavey and Lackey need to start 2014 here. Dempster I want gone because like Wakefield before him he is simply blocking better options.

    We did just win the WS just in case some of you don't care for our guys.

    [/QUOTE]

    By trading Dempster and maybe Peavy will free up more money especially if Ben C wanted to retain at least two top four F/A's.  Workman, Ranaudo, Wright, etc can be a candiate to replace them.  Also they can go after Hudson or among others to replace them for a cheaper money.

    Remember Dempster never start any post season game.  So he is so worthless!!  Peavy showed that he struggled a little bit in the post season as well he is making too much money.  Lackey pitched well in the whole post season and his value is four times worth than Peavy!!

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kingface12. Show Kingface12's posts

    Re: Why are people so anxious to mess with our starters?

    I agree....no idea why people want to trade Lackey so quickly....good starters don't grow on trees and we have 5 right now.  Buch is under contract for cheep money...Lester is here for another year at least as is Peavy.  If we were to trade somebody I would trade Peavy but seriously....what do you thinkwe could get for him?  Heck....if a team would eat his salary in exchange for a bucket of balls I would do that too....but not a lot of teams would be willing to eat $13mil for a #4 or 5 starter.....

    I say we stay the status quo.  Injuries happen and our depth will serve us well.  Other than MAYBE Renaudo and maybe Webster....none of the minor leaguers are ready to knock down that door quite yet.  When they are Peavy and Lester will be off the books. (I say re-sign Lester though....)

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from billge. Show billge's posts

    Re: Why are people so anxious to mess with our starters?

    When someone falters or is injured, the kids move up  Plus all the kids wont be great.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Why are people so anxious to mess with our starters?

    I think 2 of the pitchers we have now will be gone by the end of 2014 season. One this winter and one during the year.

    Lester, Lackey, Buch, Peavy and Doubront would be my starting 5 going in. I think Workman will fit in somewhere in 2014. And not in the freakin pen like some have suggested. Sure, lets put a kid capable of 200+IP in MLB in the pen. nonsense.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from billge. Show billge's posts

    Re: Why are people so anxious to mess with our starters?

    Agree Southpaw. Don't fix till it breaks

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Why are people so anxious to mess with our starters?

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think 2 of the pitchers we have now will be gone by the end of 2014 season. One this winter and one during the year.

    Lester, Lackey, Buch, Peavy and Doubront would be my starting 5 going in. I think Workman will fit in somewhere in 2014. And not in the freakin pen like some have suggested. Sure, lets put a kid capable of 200+IP in MLB in the pen. nonsense.

    [/QUOTE]

    Agree SO MUCH.  Workman is a big guy with good stuff.  If you just look at this guy his physical stature almost screams, "STARTER".  He may not (or may!) turn into a #2 or #3 but I'd be giving him a chance to prove himself someplace in that rotation in 2014.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Why are people so anxious to mess with our starters?

    if dempster peavy are dealt and workman and possibly hudson are put in rotation we will need to add a few arms for the pen.  Its nice to have a lot of pitching.  Very nice.  I personally like both dempster and peavy.  

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Why are people so anxious to mess with our starters?

    In response to S5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think 2 of the pitchers we have now will be gone by the end of 2014 season. One this winter and one during the year.

    Lester, Lackey, Buch, Peavy and Doubront would be my starting 5 going in. I think Workman will fit in somewhere in 2014. And not in the freakin pen like some have suggested. Sure, lets put a kid capable of 200+IP in MLB in the pen. nonsense.

    [/QUOTE]

    Agree SO MUCH.  Workman is a big guy with good stuff.  If you just look at this guy his physical stature almost screams, "STARTER".  He may not (or may!) turn into a #2 or #3 but I'd be giving him a chance to prove himself someplace in that rotation in 2014.

    [/QUOTE]


    Hey 5!

    Workman has a sick 12-6 CB, a 96-98MPH heater and a very good change and slider. Those that would have him in the pen for about 60-70IP are out of their mind with all the potential middle relievers we already have.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Why are people so anxious to mess with our starters?

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to S5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think 2 of the pitchers we have now will be gone by the end of 2014 season. One this winter and one during the year.

    Lester, Lackey, Buch, Peavy and Doubront would be my starting 5 going in. I think Workman will fit in somewhere in 2014. And not in the freakin pen like some have suggested. Sure, lets put a kid capable of 200+IP in MLB in the pen. nonsense.

    [/QUOTE]

    Agree SO MUCH.  Workman is a big guy with good stuff.  If you just look at this guy his physical stature almost screams, "STARTER".  He may not (or may!) turn into a #2 or #3 but I'd be giving him a chance to prove himself someplace in that rotation in 2014.

    [/QUOTE]


    Hey 5!

    Workman has a sick 12-6 CB, a 96-98MPH heater and a very good change and slider. Those that would have him in the pen for about 60-70IP are out of their mind with all the potential middle relievers we already have.

    [/QUOTE]

    I thought Workman sat more in the low 90's with a heater that's topped out around 95 as a starter.  Perhaps (I would assume) he's added some velocity in shorter stints out of the bullpen.  I think he can be a really good starter and should get serious consideration there next year as well.  But if he had that repertoire as a starter I would imagine his ceiling would be much higher than it is.  He's an intriguing guy however as more scouts view his stuff to play up better in the bullpen which the team has a larger need for, however his overall value would be higher as a starter, even if the back of the rotation starter label is true.

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Why are people so anxious to mess with our starters?

    If a team would take Dempster as a straight salary dump returning us nothing I'd take it in a heart beat.  Worst case scenario we can probably get a team to eat his contract who is desperate for pitching if we throw in a lottery ticket prospect. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Why are people so anxious to mess with our starters?

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to S5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think 2 of the pitchers we have now will be gone by the end of 2014 season. One this winter and one during the year.

    Lester, Lackey, Buch, Peavy and Doubront would be my starting 5 going in. I think Workman will fit in somewhere in 2014. And not in the freakin pen like some have suggested. Sure, lets put a kid capable of 200+IP in MLB in the pen. nonsense.

    [/QUOTE]

    Agree SO MUCH.  Workman is a big guy with good stuff.  If you just look at this guy his physical stature almost screams, "STARTER".  He may not (or may!) turn into a #2 or #3 but I'd be giving him a chance to prove himself someplace in that rotation in 2014.

    [/QUOTE]

    Hey 5!

    Workman has a sick 12-6 CB, a 96-98MPH heater and a very good change and slider. Those that would have him in the pen for about 60-70IP are out of their mind with all the potential middle relievers we already have.

    [/QUOTE]

    I thought Workman sat more in the low 90's with a heater that's topped out around 95 as a starter.  Perhaps (I would assume) he's added some velocity in shorter stints out of the bullpen.  I think he can be a really good starter and should get serious consideration there next year as well.  But if he had that repertoire as a starter I would imagine his ceiling would be much higher than it is.  He's an intriguing guy however as more scouts view his stuff to play up better in the bullpen which the team has a larger need for, however his overall value would be higher as a starter, even if the back of the rotation starter label is true.

    [/QUOTE]


    You are right. He sits more in the 94ish range, but as a starter Ive seen him hit 96+ a number of times throughout this outings which is why I put those numbers up. I wasnt trying to imply that he sits there all game. He does seem to get stronger as the game goes on.

    From what Ive seen of him, and Im obviously not a pro scout, I think his stuff plays well in MLB as a starter. To put Workman in the pen right now would be a crime IMHO.

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Why are people so anxious to mess with our starters?

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to S5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think 2 of the pitchers we have now will be gone by the end of 2014 season. One this winter and one during the year.

    Lester, Lackey, Buch, Peavy and Doubront would be my starting 5 going in. I think Workman will fit in somewhere in 2014. And not in the freakin pen like some have suggested. Sure, lets put a kid capable of 200+IP in MLB in the pen. nonsense.

    [/QUOTE]

    Agree SO MUCH.  Workman is a big guy with good stuff.  If you just look at this guy his physical stature almost screams, "STARTER".  He may not (or may!) turn into a #2 or #3 but I'd be giving him a chance to prove himself someplace in that rotation in 2014.

    [/QUOTE]

    Hey 5!

    Workman has a sick 12-6 CB, a 96-98MPH heater and a very good change and slider. Those that would have him in the pen for about 60-70IP are out of their mind with all the potential middle relievers we already have.

    [/QUOTE]

    I thought Workman sat more in the low 90's with a heater that's topped out around 95 as a starter.  Perhaps (I would assume) he's added some velocity in shorter stints out of the bullpen.  I think he can be a really good starter and should get serious consideration there next year as well.  But if he had that repertoire as a starter I would imagine his ceiling would be much higher than it is.  He's an intriguing guy however as more scouts view his stuff to play up better in the bullpen which the team has a larger need for, however his overall value would be higher as a starter, even if the back of the rotation starter label is true.

    [/QUOTE]


    You are right. He sits more in the 94ish range, but as a starter Ive seen him hit 96+ a number of times throughout this outings which is why I put those numbers up. I wasnt trying to imply that he sits there all game. He does seem to get stronger as the game goes on.

    From what Ive seen of him, and Im obviously not a pro scout, I think his stuff plays well in MLB as a starter. To put Workman in the pen right now would be a crime IMHO.

    [/QUOTE]

    Is it criminal to realize more games are lost in middle relief than by set up and closers?

     

    Is it crazy to not expect rotation results from a pitcher with less than 200IP above A-Ball?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Why are people so anxious to mess with our starters?

    In response to Kingface12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I agree....no idea why people want to trade Lackey so quickly....good starters don't grow on trees and we have 5 right now.  Buch is under contract for cheep money...Lester is here for another year at least as is Peavy.  If we were to trade somebody I would trade Peavy but seriously....what do you thinkwe could get for him?  Heck....if a team would eat his salary in exchange for a bucket of balls I would do that too....but not a lot of teams would be willing to eat $13mil for a #4 or 5 starter.....

    I say we stay the status quo.  Injuries happen and our depth will serve us well.  Other than MAYBE Renaudo and maybe Webster....none of the minor leaguers are ready to knock down that door quite yet.  When they are Peavy and Lester will be off the books. (I say re-sign Lester though....)

    [/QUOTE]

    We have 4-5th starters , we don't need  a year of head case Peavy. Lke you said if we can't get much for him ?Then why do you think he so valuable as a 4-5th. I would take Workman over Peavy.  Lets see how things pan out.....

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why are people so anxious to mess with our starters?

    We "messed with out starters" last winter (Dempster) and this year (Peavy), so why is messing with them now such an abhorrent idea?

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: Why are people so anxious to mess with our starters?

    This idea that we should trade starters because we have an abundance is crazy. Remember pitching wins in this league. As much as people want to kill Dempster on this thread, he did this past year go out and make 29 starts w/ 170+ ip for the 7th straight year. He was exactly what I thought he would be a .500 pitcher with an era of 4.5 Is he over paid of course, but are we sure that Buchholz, Peavey, Workman, Doubront, Raunado, or Britton or any of these other guys are ready or going to be able to give us 30 starts next year. Its alot harder than many think. The idea we should get rid of him for nothing in return is simply put stupid. There is alot to said for a guy who goes out and takes his turn almost everytime and as a #5 starter gives your team a chance to win, I'm ok w/ that.

    I have some real concerns about Buchholz and Peavy going into next year. The shoulder problem w/ Buch just seamed to last way to long to be a bursa sac issue. Peavy while I think will help next year, just don't think physically he can give you 30 starts and 190 ip anymore, which more than anything IMO is why he pitched poorly in playoffs. While Doubront looks like he's ready to become a solid # 2-3 starter in this league, would anyone be surprised if he showed up to ST in terrible shape again and not ready to start yr w/ rest of team? While everything broke right w/ our pitching this past season would anyone be surprised if things went against us following an off season of celebrating.

    Last time we THOUGHT we had to much pitching we traded Bronson Arroyo. Look how that turned out. By April we were looking for starters again and had Wily Mo Pena to thank. Remember Pitching Wins!!!!!

     
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