Why Bard Won't Work as a Starter

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why Bard Won't Work as a Starter

    I never wanted Bard to start.

    Before we got Bailey, I thought he should close.

    Now, by "stretching him out", they may have messed it all up.

    I'm not sure what is best for him now.

    There may not be a right (or good) choice anymore. 
     
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    Re: Why Bard Won't Work as a Starter

    It's not that easy to just go back to short relief.

    I hope they didn't mess up a good thing.
     
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    Re: Why Bard Won't Work as a Starter

    Bard's movement and his nasty slider can come to the rescue -- but not when he's consistently behind in the count. He wasn't finishing his pitches, and was wild up and away to lefties. Far too many three-ball counts and walks. Then he has to grove the FB at 92/93, just about the right speed for ML hitters when the ball is right down the middle and up around the belt. Ouch. 
    Tonight he didn't look like he knew what he was doing. He was just firing the ball in the direction of the plate -- right from the start. It was only a matter of time. He'll probably get more starts, at least because BV doesn't have many other choices at the moment, certainly not as long as Buchholz is struggling. Cook and Matsuzaka?  Have to wait and see. 
    It was troubling to watch Bard unable to find a release point or to get his body square to the plate. His delivery was a mess. 
     
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    Re: Why Bard Won't Work as a Starter

    In Response to Why Bard Won't Work as a Starter:
    [QUOTE]It's a small sample size, but I'm not judging him by his numbers. The reason he will not be an effective starter is because ever since his first start, his fastball velocity has been down to 92-93 mph. That's more than a 4 mph in dropoff from his velocity as a reliever. His change up remains at 89 mph, offering almost no difference in velocity. That makes him essentially a two pitch pitcher, and he keeps getting behind on the hitters which makes him fairly predictable. In the past, when he was throwing 98 mph he could get his fastball by hitters no matter the count. But when he's throwing 92-93 mph on hitters counts, it makes him fairly easy to hit. I was a big supporter of Bard as a starter to begin with. But that was assuming he would have a typical drop in velocity of 2-3 mph as a starter and that hasn't been the case. If he doesn't improve on his velocity, we may as well move him back to the bullpen.
    Posted by SpruceTrap[/QUOTE]

    Maybe now that we have Cy Cook, Bard can return to the bullpen.

    Part of the reason his velocity is down is he isn't throwing the 4-seamer, which was his 96-98mph pitch.   He is a little like Beckett was when he first got to Boston, and his idea of a changeup was going from his 98mph 4-seamer to a 93mph 2-seamer.  And he got lit up for like 36HRs that year.

    If this is a big deal, McClure will do something about it.  The bigger reason for not making him a starter is durability.  Really, how many IP will he be able to throw this year?
     
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    Re: Why Bard Won't Work as a Starter

    4th start. Give Bard 20 more starts before calling the experiement a failure.
     
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    Re: Why Bard Won't Work as a Starter

    If he had pitched well enough to win tonight  would  you have posted this? 

    Feels like a premature assessment
     
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    Re: Why Bard Won't Work as a Starter

    In Response to Re: Why Bard Won't Work as a Starter:
    [QUOTE]4th start. Give Bard 20 more starts before calling the experiement a failure.
    Posted by Mt200[/QUOTE]

    He has done well, it is way to early to even think about a change.  Look at the closers of last year's PO teams!  Look at the WS champs pen.  Finding pen help is cheaper then finding a starter under team control for years to come.

     
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    Re: Why Bard Won't Work as a Starter

    Bard has done fine in his first ever tenure in a MLB rotation. Pen arms are a dime a dozen, and it was incompetence that set up last year's rotation with Tim Wastefield as the first fallback option. Tim Wastefield was the most embarrassing case of good ole boyism in Red Sox history. Pitiful and pathetic were part of the Wastefield nightmare that eventually left his shocked agent claiming "he'll win 15 games somewhere" begging for another Red Sox welfare contract.

    The Red Sox problem is not based in aggregate cut and paste pitching or hitting stats. The Red Sox problem is the absence of a true superstar RH bat that completes the restoration of the currently flawed Red Sox team identity.
     
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    Re: Why Bard Won't Work as a Starter

    Beside the game vs Chicago, they have scored 1 run in all Bard's other starts. NO team will win games if they score 1 run in 3 starts for their starter.
     
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    Re: Why Bard Won't Work as a Starter

    In Response to Why Bard Won't Work as a Starter:
    [QUOTE]It's a small sample size, but I'm not judging him by his numbers. The reason he will not be an effective starter is because ever since his first start, his fastball velocity has been down to 92-93 mph. That's more than a 4 mph in dropoff from his velocity as a reliever. His change up remains at 89 mph, offering almost no difference in velocity. That makes him essentially a two pitch pitcher, and he keeps getting behind on the hitters which makes him fairly predictable. In the past, when he was throwing 98 mph he could get his fastball by hitters no matter the count. But when he's throwing 92-93 mph on hitters counts, it makes him fairly easy to hit. I was a big supporter of Bard as a starter to begin with. But that was assuming he would have a typical drop in velocity of 2-3 mph as a starter and that hasn't been the case. If he doesn't improve on his velocity, we may as well move him back to the bullpen.
    Posted by SpruceTrap[/QUOTE]

    His velocity didn't drop.  He's purposedly dropped his velocity to stretch out innings.  He can't throw 70-80+ 96-99 MPH fastball every start.  He's still adapting to his new role.
     
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    Re: Why Bard Won't Work as a Starter

    In response to "Re: Why Bard Won't Work as a Starter": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why Bard Won't Work as a Starter : We're at the top of the league in runs scored and at the bottom of the league in runs allowed and our problem's our hitting? LOL Posted by SpruceTrap[/QUOTE] Do the math!
     
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    Re: Why Bard Won't Work as a Starter

    all i know is i certainly don't miss him bringing heat out of the pen.
     
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    Re: Why Bard Won't Work as a Starter

    Bard is a 5 inning starter.........  The 2nd & 3rd time around the batters have his ###########.........  Quite frankly, what a waste as a starter !!!!
     
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    Re: Why Bard Won't Work as a Starter

    In Response to Re: Why Bard Won't Work as a Starter:
    [QUOTE]Bard is a 5 inning starter.........  The 2nd & 3rd time around the batters have his ###########.........  Quite frankly, what a waste as a starter !!!!
    Posted by Bill-806[/QUOTE]  Bard is much more valuable as a bottom of the rotation starter than he would be as a setup guy.  He does not appear to have any interest whatsoever in being in a closer and he has earned an opportunity to maximize his earning power.  He has the potential to be an above average to very good starting pitcher as he experiences facing hitters multiple times and making adjustments.  Not suggesting that it's easy to be a late inning reliever, but there are plenty of those guys around from year to year (young starters who only have 1 or at best 2 quality pitches).     
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Why Bard Won't Work as a Starter

    In Response to Re: Why Bard Won't Work as a Starter:
    [QUOTE]Bard is a 5 inning starter.........  The 2nd & 3rd time around the batters have his ###########.........  Quite frankly, what a waste as a starter !!!!
    Posted by Bill-806[/QUOTE]

    A 5 inning starter who's averaging 6 IP per start?  (24 IP in 4 starts, 2/3 IP in 1 relief appearance).
     
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    Re: Why Bard Won't Work as a Starter

    Bard is leading the starters in ERA.  Not sure if that's a testament to Bard to if that just says how bad the starting pitching has been.  Either way he's leading the staff and giving league average innings per start (league average is 6.083 and Bard's averaging 6).
     
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    Re: Why Bard Won't Work as a Starter

    We're at the top of the league in runs scored and at the bottom of the league in runs allowed and our problem's our hitting?

    Get back with me when W/L records are based on season long total runs scored and total runs allowed. Take a look at the great offense in the pitcher's park of Fenway, putting up big numbers against the Oakland A's et al. Take a look at game logs and the double digit runs scored followed by repeated games of inept offense.
     

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