Why be so negative ?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Why be so negative ?

    In response to Hingham Hammer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

      You complain often but yet to come up with a better approach.

    [/QUOTE]


    What are you talking about?  I have said consistently use the money you dumped on these 3 mediocrities for either 1.  STARTING PITCHING or 2.  to sign ellsbury - clearly the sox best player.

    The Sox are taking the lazy route - over paying for guys no one else wants.  Stockpiling 3 mediocre ball players instead of working hard to lock up their best player.

    Now they will dump ellsbury for a SP (it will not be an ace). 

    Not a good plan.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Why be so negative ?

    In response to Iceman4's comment:
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    In response to carnie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
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    I don't have anything against Ben. I want him to succeed , because I want the Sox to win. But let's be honest. In his first year in charge , we had the worst team that we have had in years.  The big trade with L.A. supposedly freed up money to improve the club. What we have seen so far is money being spent on some average or slightly above average players. As it stands , there is no real possibility that  we can contend in 2013. Another last place finish is very possible. As a Sox fan , can you defend a G.M. who fields two straight cellar clubs ?  With all of the money at our disposal , how can you accept this ?   What in the world makes you think that it will be different in 2014? Baseball is a great sport , but it is a business. In business , results count for everything. We need to see some results , not more excuses.  Honestly , all some of you can offer is to throw darts at those of us who are telling you the unpleasant truth.  We have won two World Series in 94 years. We would like to see another. What do the rest of you want ?  A ten year plan , and continue to ridicule those who are not satisfied with what is happening ?  I think any real Sox fan would be unhappy with what is going on , and would want to see some immediate improvement.  This is a rather long post , but I guess it will get the usual curt response of " stop crying or go away."  Or " root for another team."  The typical well thought out response of the so-called " real Sox fan. ".  So be it. 

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    You say you want Ben to succeed, but you seem to be awfully quick to throw him under the bus. The worst move he made last year was signing Bobby V to manage the club, but if you will recall, the guy he wanted was Dale Sveum and he was overruled by LL. As far as player moves, he had zero financial flexibility to go out and sign FAs due to the bloated Beckett, Crawford and Gonzo deals and the fact that the penalties for teams that remain over the luxury tax threshhold become quite severe under the new CBA. The two biggest free agent moves Ben made last year were Ross and Padilla and those worked out pretty well. Trading Scut for Mortenson was about freeing up salary to acquire Ross, although Mortenson has turned out to be a pretty decent bullpen arm. I'll be judging Ben a lot more on this year's team than last year's as he has the flexibility to shape the team to his vision this winter. I won't say that I love the acquisitions so far, but I think it's very early to call the Sox a last place team. I really like the Napoli signing, especially since it's for only 3 years. As for Victorino we'll see, but he's a big defensive upgrade over Cody Ross.

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    but how did Sveum do? we let Scut go ...but he went on to a WS?? Bailey was out for the season...69 wins.......

    I will give Ben time...but the current track record is not good. I also know we need to sign an ACE and that may not happen this year.

    [/QUOTE]

    Are you saying we would have won the WSC with Scut at SS? That makes zero sense. Also bringing back Scut would have meant no Ross, who all the whiners want back now. And how much of those 93 losses fall on Bobby V? Would Sveum have done better? We'll likely never know. The one thing Ben has done so far this year that I wholeheartedly disagree with is giving up Aviles for Farrell, but if Farrell and Nieves can get Lester and Bard back to form I'll probably like that move.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from chiefret. Show chiefret's posts

    Re: Why be so negative ?

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    I also like the moves BC has made so far. David Ross, Jonny Gomes, Mike Napoli and Shane Victorino for $94 mil. The farm system is well stocked w/prime prospects and they have Salty/Ellsbury to use in trades. Josh Hamilton would wilt under the incessant Boston media attention. The naysayers will rail regardless of what moves the Sox make.

    The Victorino signing will allow them to include Ellsbury in a trade if they so choose to get a pitcher.

    I like the moves theyve made. People are complaining we need another slugger, but the only one is JH and theres no way Id sign him to what hes asking.

    Im called a Ben apologist and a bootlicker because I like these deals. Those are some of the most self righteous statements ive heard. Because I dont agree with someone elses opinion? Maybe its because I actually DO agree or understand certain signings and have MY OWN OPINION.

    IMO, Theyre getting good ball players that are team guys who play hard. Slightly overpaying to get shorter term deals is Ok since they have some extra cash to spend.
    they are far from done though...

    [/QUOTE]


     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Why be so negative ?

    Look up negative in the dictionary and you see a picture of Red Sox fans it is an inbreeding issue that has been around since the Babe Ruth trade.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hingham Hammer. Show Hingham Hammer's posts

    Re: Why be so negative ?

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Hingham Hammer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

      You complain often but yet to come up with a better approach.

    [/QUOTE]


    What are you talking about?  I have said consistently use the money you dumped on these 3 mediocrities for either 1.  STARTING PITCHING or 2.  to sign ellsbury - clearly the sox best player.

    The Sox are taking the lazy route - over paying for guys no one else wants.  Stockpiling 3 mediocre ball players instead of working hard to lock up their best player.

    Now they will dump ellsbury for a SP (it will not be an ace). 

    Not a good plan.

     

    [/QUOTE]"it will not be an ace"

                        Nor should it be for an ace.

                        It's a one year rental for a player who has had only one good season and can't stay on the field.

                        And no he is not the best player the Sox have.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Why be so negative ?

    In response to boborielly224's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The season has not even started, and everyone is whining, crying and bashing the Red Sox. This may a bridge the mngt. is building but collapsing, it is too early to tell. Last year was a bad season for Sox fans. It seems that some fans on this forum still has that grey cloud hanging over them. " The sun still shines behind a mask of clouds". 

    Last year there was club house issues, injuries and the manager was not the right choice. BC revamp by getting the coaching staff together first then went and pick the missing links. Cherington just spent 78 mill on 2 players that will not hurt the team. Ben still has money to spend to to fix up the pitching staff. This is the most concern part for me what moves will the Sox mngt. make with pitching? I am hoping he will pick up some young arms.

    [/QUOTE]

    Because the Red Sox had a lot of payroll flexibility and a lot of it is gone with dumb contracts. People were expecting Victorino to get 1 year, $7M and the Red Sox gave him 3 years and $38M.

    Baseball executives viewed it as the worst move in Nashville.  He can't hit righties and he's coming off his worst year.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Why be so negative ?

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They have added good quality players and players with good clubhouse attitude. There is not much available for FA this year and IMHO they got two of the best. 

    BTW they got two better players for less than what the Braves paid for a strictly defensive guy in Upton. They also have the ability now to make other moves.

     

    as for the negativity just remember there are RS fans that believe they should win every game and that every player should have years that are career years every year.

    [/QUOTE]

    So why pay the money? And you are saying Victorino was one of the best? Please. Most executives expected him to get 1 year / $7M. The Red Sox overpaid by about $28-30M.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from boborielly224. Show boborielly224's posts

    Re: Why be so negative ?

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to boborielly224's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The season has not even started, and everyone is whining, crying and bashing the Red Sox. This may a bridge the mngt. is building but collapsing, it is too early to tell. Last year was a bad season for Sox fans. It seems that some fans on this forum still has that grey cloud hanging over them. " The sun still shines behind a mask of clouds". 

    Last year there was club house issues, injuries and the manager was not the right choice. BC revamp by getting the coaching staff together first then went and pick the missing links. Cherington just spent 78 mill on 2 players that will not hurt the team. Ben still has money to spend to to fix up the pitching staff. This is the most concern part for me what moves will the Sox mngt. make with pitching? I am hoping he will pick up some young arms.

    [/QUOTE]

    I understand your point.  But I don't see it as "whining, crying and bashing".  I see it as us fans being very passionate and very eager to see the Red Sox rebound in 2013 and beyond.  

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    They will rebound this year. I have passion for the red sox, and so far I am content with the moves. Yes the economics is very big concern not just in North America but internationally. When their are stressful times in the people's lives ie finances, sports for most people is a stress relief. Signing players ie Prince Fielder type contracts is not smart mngt. skills or better  A Rod type contracts. 3 yrs. is not a life time contract and will not hurt the team.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Why be so negative ?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I thought it would be fun to bust a friend about youk in pinstripes

    she immediately reminded how much we nyyfans didn't like the guy

    took that jeter like smirk right off my face.

    [/QUOTE]

    A bit more seriously now, Zac..

    It's good to see you say that.  I try to appreciate just how good and how dedicated Jeter is but I have a really hard time getting past that smirk. Just like I have a hard time getting past the image that's burned in my brain of Jeter standing on 2nd after the Bronson Arroyo/Arod 'slappy' thing, with Jeter making a 'safe' sign when obviously Jeter's back was to the play. 

    It's been my experience both in playing and in watching that there are certain players whom you LOVE when they're on your team but you can't stand when they're playing for someone else.  Jeter is like that for me. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from boborielly224. Show boborielly224's posts

    Re: Why be so negative ?

    In response to Hingham Hammer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Hingham Hammer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

      You complain often but yet to come up with a better approach.

    [/QUOTE]


    What are you talking about?  I have said consistently use the money you dumped on these 3 mediocrities for either 1.  STARTING PITCHING or 2.  to sign ellsbury - clearly the sox best player.

    The Sox are taking the lazy route - over paying for guys no one else wants.  Stockpiling 3 mediocre ball players instead of working hard to lock up their best player.

    Now they will dump ellsbury for a SP (it will not be an ace). 

    Not a good plan.

     

    [/QUOTE]"it will not be an ace"

                        Nor should it be for an ace.

                        It's a one year rental for a player who has had only one good season and can't stay on the field.

                        And no he is not the best player the Sox have.

    [/QUOTE]


    Did you personally talk to Cherrington. BC said " hey long time no sea, Oh by the way I am trading Ells for a Starting Pitcher, and by the way tell the gang on the forum that we are extending Peds contract also."

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SleeStack1. Show SleeStack1's posts

    Re: Why be so negative ?

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to boborielly224's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The season has not even started, and everyone is whining, crying and bashing the Red Sox. This may a bridge the mngt. is building but collapsing, it is too early to tell. Last year was a bad season for Sox fans. It seems that some fans on this forum still has that grey cloud hanging over them. " The sun still shines behind a mask of clouds". 

    Last year there was club house issues, injuries and the manager was not the right choice. BC revamp by getting the coaching staff together first then went and pick the missing links. Cherington just spent 78 mill on 2 players that will not hurt the team. Ben still has money to spend to to fix up the pitching staff. This is the most concern part for me what moves will the Sox mngt. make with pitching? I am hoping he will pick up some young arms.

    [/QUOTE]

    I understand your point.  But I don't see it as "whining, crying and bashing".  I see it as us fans being very passionate and very eager to see the Red Sox rebound in 2013 and beyond.  [/QUOTE]


     

    No, it really is whining, crying, and bashing.  Its Ok to call a turd a turd.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Why be so negative ?

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Look up negative in the dictionary and you see a picture of Red Sox fans it is an inbreeding issue that has been around since the Babe Ruth trade.

    [/QUOTE]


    Actually, Babe Ruth was sold not traded.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from boborielly224. Show boborielly224's posts

    Re: Why be so negative ?

    In response to SleeStack1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to boborielly224's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The season has not even started, and everyone is whining, crying and bashing the Red Sox. This may a bridge the mngt. is building but collapsing, it is too early to tell. Last year was a bad season for Sox fans. It seems that some fans on this forum still has that grey cloud hanging over them. " The sun still shines behind a mask of clouds". 

    Last year there was club house issues, injuries and the manager was not the right choice. BC revamp by getting the coaching staff together first then went and pick the missing links. Cherington just spent 78 mill on 2 players that will not hurt the team. Ben still has money to spend to to fix up the pitching staff. This is the most concern part for me what moves will the Sox mngt. make with pitching? I am hoping he will pick up some young arms.

    [/QUOTE]

    I understand your point.  But I don't see it as "whining, crying and bashing".  I see it as us fans being very passionate and very eager to see the Red Sox rebound in 2013 and beyond.  [/QUOTE]


     

    No, it really is whining, crying, and bashing.  Its Ok to call a turd a turd.

    [/QUOTE]


    Everyone can be a turd at times. I am just opening a can of worms, with my honest opinion. Just because the Sox had a crappy year. It will not interfere with personal life.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from boborielly224. Show boborielly224's posts

    Re: Why be so negative ?

    In response to carnie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Look up negative in the dictionary and you see a picture of Red Sox fans it is an inbreeding issue that has been around since the Babe Ruth trade.

    [/QUOTE]


    Actually, Babe Ruth was sold not traded.

    [/QUOTE]


    There was Choclate Bar name after him also. If it still exist I am not sure. They don't care those candy bars up here in Southern Ontario. I am still getting over the twinkie scare. So far my friends and I did not start a riot. LOL

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Why be so negative ?

    In response to ADG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They have added good quality players and players with good clubhouse attitude. There is not much available for FA this year and IMHO they got two of the best. 

    BTW they got two better players for less than what the Braves paid for a strictly defensive guy in Upton. They also have the ability now to make other moves.

     

    as for the negativity just remember there are RS fans that believe they should win every game and that every player should have years that are career years every year.

    [/QUOTE]

    So why pay the money? And you are saying Victorino was one of the best? Please. Most executives expected him to get 1 year / $7M. The Red Sox overpaid by about $28-30M.

    [/QUOTE]

    If you look at the list SV was one of the best available. Then by signing SV it allows them to move Jake for a SP as well as not pushing a not ready kid to theMLBlevel. It is not about what was reported but what actually happens. No one saw Upton getting 15 mil per yr. Pagan got 10 mil per yr based upon the playoffs. IMHO he got the going rate for this yr. BTW he was never reported as being on the RS radar by most. 

    It is not just about this year but the next 5 years, which is good management. Too many here have tunnel vision on only one year.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Why be so negative ?

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    No, the production that will be non-existant at 1b will hurt the team more than 13M per for 3 years. Sure, lets act like a small market team with a low budget. With you in charge we clould guarentee one thing

    With me in charge, 100M to 120M is not a "small market team".

    With you in charge, zero playoff wins and nearly a quarter of a billion dollars a season in labor costs will continue.

    Napoli is a 2nd rate 1st baseman. Loney and Gomez in a platoon will cost nearly 13 times less and produce 75% or more of what Napoli produces, assuming high miles "golden years" Napoli can stay off the DL long enough to produce for a full season.

    With Napoli, the Red Sox have staked the next two years on one expensive 2nd rate chip. With Loney and Gomez, the Red Sox will be positioned to find better than a 2nd rate 1st baseman on a first rate base contract.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thats funny. Ok, Im done here.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Why be so negative ?

    THe Red Sox have a good line up as it stands right now.  they also have starting pitching that has done the job in the past.

    I am not overly optimistic about next year. But as it stands right now this is not a bad team, and this team does have a shot.

    I am willing to wait until Spring training to pass final judgement.  Since that only makes sense.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Why be so negative ?

    In response to carnie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Look up negative in the dictionary and you see a picture of Red Sox fans it is an inbreeding issue that has been around since the Babe Ruth trade.

    [/QUOTE]


    Actually, Babe Ruth was sold not traded.

    [/QUOTE]


    +1

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jaytftwofive. Show jaytftwofive's posts

    Re: Why be so negative ?

    I think it's more whining then negative. Let's face it. We have been a contender since Henry and company took over in 2002. We have 2 WS and  many playoff appearances so you get used to it. And for those of us who root for all the Boston sports teams, we have 7 titles in the past 10-11 years. So in that aspect we have been spoiled. The Celtics run last year made no sense at all. Old, starters and bench players missing and yet a bad shooting but great point guard takes them on his back to one game away from the finals.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Why be so negative ?

    Better get used to the negativity.

    It will be around for awhile.

    In October of 2007, The immediate future of the Red Sox was so bright , they all had to wear shades.

    What happened?

    Poor leadership

    Poor front office management

    Poor ownership.

    While everybody was busy patting themselves on the back, the overconfidence and the optimism put the whole franchise on cruise control, thinking they were sitting pretty.

    I don't see negativity being a bad thing from fans and media when it is obviously called for. The team has been a mess for too long now.

    If they want optimism and congratulations from us, they are going to have to earn it on the field.

    Until they do , I will continue to honestly criticize every move I feel is ill advised or poor.

    I applauded the Crawford signing, the Lackey signing ...and I was wrong.

    I hated the hiring of Valentine....and I was right.

    I applauded the trading of Beckett...stay tuned.

    I will go on record as saying that I hate the signing of Victorino and Napoli.

    I understand that Gomes is considered a "good clubhouse guy." Well, we'll see. He hasn't lasted very long anywhere he's played.

    I am 100% sure that Cherrybomb is far from finished with this team. Let's hope so , because as the team stands right now, it looks like a mess.

     

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