Why Beckett and not Pedroia or AGon?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Why Beckett and not Pedroia or AGon?

    WAR   2012

    Beckett     2.5     27th pitcher  
    Pedroia     1.3     17th 2B 
    AGon        2.0     10th 1B
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Why Beckett and not Pedroia or AGon?

    If your query has to do with why Beckett is getting killed by the media and the fans. The answer is easy, it's the perception that the guys an arrogant P _ _ _ _k, that doesn't work hard. A perception that Beckett himself has fostered with his less than accomidating and surly behavior with the local press. Which is then compounded by his less than results and his inability to stay healthy. "You reap what you sow".

    End of the day Beckett is supposed to be the leader of the staff. While I get that he dosen't have to explain why he chose to play golf to the press, on his day off, after missing a start due to a "back injury". He does owe the fans a reasonable explanation. Therein lyes the disconect with him. I get the macho game day intensity schidt that he likes to portray. I also commend him for never making excuses for a lack luster performance.

    However if one buys into notion that "perception is reality", then Beckett needs to wake up and smell the coffee. The fans of the Boston Red Sox will forever remember his gutsy performaces in helping to lead the team to the 2007 WS tittle. However those memories are quickly fading to black, because since, he yet to finish a season, strong due to myriad of health reasons...Which has influenced the perception, that he doesn't keep himself in top physical condition  (see the less than flattering photo's of his beer belly a few years back). That he doesn't appear to feel that he owe's the very people who support his team with thier hard earned dollars anything, only fans the flames of discontent.
     
  3. This post has been removed.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from attic-dan. Show attic-dan's posts

    Re: Why Beckett and not Pedroia or AGon?

       Because even with injuries, down years, etc the offense has produced. The pitchers even had a 'average year' the Sox would be in the drivers seat for WC. There is the obvious answer of clubhouse turmoil, directly from last years antics, lies at the feet of the SP.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Why Beckett and not Pedroia or AGon?

    People don't like Beckett because they think he is arrogant and lazy.  People like Pedey because they think he works hard.  People tolerate Gonzo because he keeps his head down and does the right thing.

    It's all about perceptions.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Why Beckett and not Pedroia or AGon?

    In Response to Re: Why Beckett and not Pedroia or AGon?:
    [QUOTE]People don't like Beckett because they think he is arrogant and lazy.  People like Pedey because they think he works hard.  People tolerate Gonzo because he keeps his head down and does the right thing. It's all about perceptions.
    Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]

    those are realities snake...
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Why Beckett and not Pedroia or AGon?

    In Response to Re: Why Beckett and not Pedroia or AGon?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why Beckett and not Pedroia or AGon? : those are realities snake...
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    Probably so. 

    My point was more to the OP that people cheer for who they think embodies what a pro athlete should be.

    The guy with obvious talents who is appearing to squander it is going to be hated much more than the guy who is appearing to make the most of what he has.

    A lot of it is still our perception though.  We aren't sure what is going on.  We take our leads from what other people think and what the media tells us.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Why Beckett and not Pedroia or AGon?

    gonzo has earned my respect this yr...playing the outfield when called upon, playing hard almost everyday, getting his stroke back amid vicious criticism...and seems like a genuinly nice guy...im glad we have him....and

    i have yet to see him not catch a ball short hopped to him...he is money on defense...

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fenwayjimy. Show Fenwayjimy's posts

    Re: Why Beckett and not Pedroia or AGon?

    Wasn't Joe DiMaggio perceived to be aloof and not motivated much like JD Drew.

    On pregame last night, they were saying that Crawford is one of the hardest working players in workouts and conditioning on the team. Has anyone on this forum ever perceived him in that way.

    Perceptions alone can lead to opinions that are inaccurate and easily fueled by those eith preconceived notions or hearsay. If one caller to a talk show says that Joe X  was lazy then 50,000 listeners will take it as a true fact.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Why Beckett and not Pedroia or AGon?

    In Response to Re: Why Beckett and not Pedroia or AGon?:
    [QUOTE]gonzo has earned my respect this yr...playing the outfield when called upon, playing hard almost everyday, getting his stroke back amid vicious criticism...and seems like a genuinly nice guy...im glad we have him....and i have yet to see him not catch a ball short hopped to him...he is money on defense...
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    Nothing wrong with Gonzo.  I agree.  This will probably be his worst year on his contract and he will still finish it over 300 with 100 plus RBI's.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from freediro. Show freediro's posts

    Re: Why Beckett and not Pedroia or AGon?


    AVGRunsHRRBI
    .307551169
    leads the Majors w/ a .418 AVG wRISP this season 

    When you find me someone that can replace these numbers better and with a gold glove, then you can complain about A-Gon. Otherwise go fall in a ditch and you know what, you pink hat troll!

    UGH, do some research besides ONE STAT THAT SUPPORTS JUST YOUR SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Why Beckett and not Pedroia or AGon?

    If AGon and Pedroia performed as well as last year the Sox would be headed to the playoffs!

    Pedroia  WAR  2011   8.0
    AGon   WAR 2011  6.6

    AGon has been great with runners on, but he was acquired at great cost and is paid to be a superstar.  I think he will bounce back, but his performance is abig part of why the 2012 Sox have underperformed:

    Bases empty:

    2012  243 AB   5 HR   .284 /  .318  /  .399
    2011  316  AB  17 HR  .316  /  .385  /  .554


     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Why Beckett and not Pedroia or AGon?

    In Response to Re: Why Beckett and not Pedroia or AGon?:
    [QUOTE]If AGon and Pedroia performed as well as last year the Sox would be headed to the playoffs! Pedroia  WAR  2011   8.0 AGon   WAR 2011  6.6 AGon has been great with runners on, but he was acquired at great cost and is paid to be a superstar.  I think he will bounce back, but his performance is abig part of why the 2012 Sox have underperformed: Bases empty: 2012  243 AB   5 HR   .284 /  .318  /  .399 2011  316  AB  17 HR  .316  /  .385  /  .554
    Posted by tom-uk[/QUOTE]

    Tom,
    While the struggles of both haven't helped, nor has the injuries to others.

    The reason we're a .500 club and not right in the mix. Is due to the lackluster season long performaces of our top two starters...Jon Lester is 5-10 with a 5.36 era and Josh Beckett (who has also missed 5 starts) is 5-9 with a 4.54 era. End of the day, we've gotten little in terms of length or quality from either all year. It would be another matter if their records were due to lack of run support.

    I would also add to list of reasons were struggling to compete...The 6 blown saves and the 2-7 record with a 4.29 ERA by our closer (Aceves). Who due to the season long injury to Bailey, has had to assume the role all year.

    The list goes on...

    Suffice to say, no team can compete when the top two guys in their rotation post the numbers that our guys have. Even though the guy (Aceves) has the guts of burgler. Having a closer, that is not a guy that when he comes into the game. The other team starts packing up thier gear. Erodes the confidence and the swagger of a team.

    Back to the heart of the matter...The designation of staff ace carries with it a leadership role. Every five days when your ace in on the bump. The entire team takes the field knowing that he's going to make it tough on the others guys (See Pedro). A dynamic that is missing on the current team and frankly has been absent since July of last year. One that if Lester can't step up and fill we're in for a dry spell that could take 2 or 3 years to fix.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Why Beckett and not Pedroia or AGon?

    Beantowne.....despite so many on this forum throwing Josh under the bus he has had 14 outings that would be considered quality starts. Where he has gone 6+ innings and given up 4 or less runs. If he had the run support Clay had in the beginning of the season he'd have 10+ Wins.

    Which is why the perception thing about any player is just that a perception. It is based upon what we think we see when we are watching a game or what we think we read or hear in the media.
    FYI there are still guys out there that will not write positive stuff about past RS players. Buckner got reemed in the press and by many fans. Today all the media puts the onus on the fans for being rough on him. They don't look back or convienetly forget at what some wrote.

    I have said it before people believe what they want to believe.

    Very few believe players who have come out and stated the RS clubhouse is the best they have been in. Ross, Aviles, Sweeney, have all stated this. BUT few hear it and less believe it.
    When Josh says his family comes forst people interpert that as he does not care. That is a perception which IMHO is crazy.

    In the world of the RS fan everything is worse than it is and always better than what it is. Many RS fans are Bi Polar in their thinking about the RS.


     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Why Beckett and not Pedroia or AGon?

    In Response to Re: Why Beckett and not Pedroia or AGon?:
    [QUOTE]Beantowne.....despite so many on this forum throwing Josh under the bus he has had 14 outings that would be considered quality starts. Where he has gone 6+ innings and given up 4 or less runs. If he had the run support Clay had in the beginning of the season he'd have 10+ Wins. Which is why the perception thing about any player is just that a perception. It is based upon what we think we see when we are watching a game or what we think we read or hear in the media. FYI there are still guys out there that will not write positive stuff about past RS players. Buckner got reemed in the press and by many fans. Today all the media puts the onus on the fans for being rough on him. They don't look back or convienetly forget at what some wrote. I have said it before people believe what they want to believe. Very few believe players who have come out and stated the RS clubhouse is the best they have been in. Ross, Aviles, Sweeney, have all stated this. BUT few hear it and less believe it. When Josh says his family comes forst people interpert that as he does not care. That is a perception which IMHO is crazy. In the world of the RS fan everything is worse than it is and always better than what it is. Many RS fans are Bi Polar in their thinking about the RS.
    Posted by JimfromFlorida[/QUOTE]

    Jim,
    5-9 with 4.54 era you are what your record says you are...He has had a total of 10 QS of 18 or about 55% of the game he's started. I get that he's pitch well at times...but has not put together a sustained period where he's run off a month's worth of QS. Just check out his game log below if you look at his July numbers he's pitched well enough to win but he also didn't dominate in ani of his starts and only pitching into the 7th once...

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/gamelog/_/id/4242/josh-beckett

    I'm not one of those fans that want to believe everything that's been written about the guy...I think he's as much to blame as the pundits for how he's percieved.

    End of the day his numbers are fine for a middle or back of the rotation starter on a good team that plays in a bandbox...But they're not the type of numbers nor the amount of innings pitched that an "ace of the staff" post. A place he still believes he holds on this team. Ditto for Lester...
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Why Beckett and not Pedroia or AGon?

    In Response to Re: Why Beckett and not Pedroia or AGon?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why Beckett and not Pedroia or AGon? : Tom, While the struggles of both haven't helped, nor has the injuries to others. The reason we're a .500 club and not right in the mix. Is due to the lackluster season long performaces of our top two starters...Jon Lester is 5-10 with a 5.36 era and Josh Beckett (who has also missed 5 starts) is 5-9 with a 4.54 era. End of the day, we've gotten little in terms of length or quality from either all year.
    Posted by Beantowne[/QUOTE]

    BT Lester and Beckett have been criticixed greatly on this board and elsewhere.  The point of my OP is that Beckett is given a lot of flack but he is having a better year than Pedroia and AGon.  To say the .500 record is due to the starters is false IMO, especially in Beckett's case.  

    Last year Pedroia was the 4th best position player in MLB, this year he is the 14th best 2B. He has been outperformed by Dan Murphy,  Darwin Barney,  Jason Kipnis,  Danny Espinosa, and Aaron Hill.  Notice I had to write the first names to identify these guys.

     If Ped/AGon were performing like 2011, the Sox would have won 5 - 7 more games and this is under-reported.  Of course, Lester, Bard, Buchholz, the replacements in CF have all cost many wins.   Lester and Beckett have been given most of the blame, but as others have written this is due to perception not reality.  The reality is the Pedroia has been more of a problem than Beckett.  I will rank the underperformers IMO:

    Bard
    Lester
    Pedroia
    AGon
    Buchholz
    Beckett
    Aceves

    The injuries hurt CF performance massively, but not that much in RF or LF.



     

Share