1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    posted at 12/15/2012 12:39 PM EST

    Exactly.  In theory, a player should net more in a trade prior to the start of the season because the acquiring team obtains his draft pick compensation; however, it just isnt true.  Look at what Greinke landed when flipped mid-season. 

    As compared to what someone would have given in March to get a full season of Greinke not a third of one plus a draft pick, how do you know the midseason trade was better?

     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    posted at 12/15/2012 2:13 PM EST

    In response to pinstripezac's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:


    Because people see things and repeat them, without really knowing why.

    The issue isn't that we can't re-sign him, but with JBJ around, we have no reason to.

    ........................................................


    The issue isn't that we can't re-sign him,

    yup, them not willing/wanting to was my point


    but with JBJ around, we have no reason to.

    yikes,

    I didn't think you had it* that bad JB

    in the prior post you are telling me/us that

    Ellsbury has superior talent to pedrioa

    now you are telling me jackie B is better that

    we talking about a better bargain or better team ?


     




    *it- that all/most prospects will be better than most players
    who have already done good things in the major leaguers disease



    You're mixing apples, and Oranges, and in this case, almonds.

    I said Ellsbury had more talent than Pedroia, but wasn't the better player.  That's the apple.

    I am not saying that JBJ has more talent than Ellsbury.  That's the orange.

    What i am saying is that I would rather have JBJ at minimum wage, at ages 24-29, than Ellsbury at ages 30-35 for a $84M/6 contract.  That's the almod.

    To be honest, it isn't even thread-worthy.  FAs are virtually always overpaid.  Why overpay for a player when you have a more-than-reasonable substitute for minimum wage?  Plus the draft pick?  To me, it isn't a question of being here in 2014, it is a question of trade valeu v one year of play plus a draft pick.

     

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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    posted at 12/16/2012 11:46 AM EST

    In response to pinstripezac's comment:



     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     



    You're mixing apples, and Oranges, and in this case, almonds.

    I said Ellsbury had more talent than Pedroia, but wasn't the better player.  That's the apple.

    I am not saying that JBJ has more talent than Ellsbury.  That's the orange.

    What i am saying is that I would rather have JBJ at minimum wage, at ages 24-29, than Ellsbury at ages 30-35 for a $84M/6 contract.  That's the almod.

    To be honest, it isn't even thread-worthy.  FAs are virtually always overpaid.  Why overpay for a player when you have a more-than-reasonable substitute for minimum wage?  Plus the draft pick?  To me, it isn't a question of being here in 2014, it is a question of trade valeu v one year of play plus a draft pick.




    no worries JB

    it won't kill you, but

    I was right, you really have it*

    apples - talking about the best team now

    oranges- talking about the best bargain and a someday team 

     

     

     

     


    *it- that all/most prospects will be better than most players
    who have already done good things in the major leagues disease

    [/QUOTE]

    Don't know what that means.

     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    posted at 12/16/2012 12:33 PM EST

    Because his trade value is down right now coming back from an injury, he has Boras as an agent, and I would be terrified with trusting Young Ben to trade him with the return he received back.

     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    posted at 12/16/2012 2:10 PM EST

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:

    Because he has shown he can be a great CF. Injuries have curtailed that ability.



    He had a Brady Anderson year !  He never hit more than 9 HRs in any other season. Minors included. He never had more than 60 RBIs in any season , minors included. He did bat for a decent average in the minors. He does not have a throwing arm. He's a glorified Otis Nixon with just a little more pop in his bat.

     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    posted at 12/16/2012 2:25 PM EST

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to never1954's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    Presley was the king. Andrus is an error prone, career .275 hitter , with zero power. Iglesias is our shortstop. 

    I really like his defense as well but, is the current RS offense one that they can bury Iggy's lack of BA in?  He did end the year hitting the ball hard but right at people, maybe  lightning will strike and he will figure out how to get some to drop in.

    You can't really talk about batting avg. or power with Iglesias in the conversation. Just sayin'.




    You can when discussing stellar GG defense...







    He was very unlucky last year. Yes, he did hit the ball hard a lot. Problem was it went right at someone. Iggy has hit at every level, even though it was very advanced for his age, the stats dont lie. He should be able to be a 240-250 hitter in MLB and have an obp north of .300...Ill take that along with him saving about 40 runs a year playing SS...


    Do you truly believe that he'll make 40 plays that Ciriaco won't make, and those plays will all save a run? He'll be lucky to make 1 or 2 plays a week that an average fielding SS wouldn't make, and most of those plays won't have an effect on the outcome of a game.

    I know some of his plays might save more than 1 run. His lack of offense will cost as many runs as his defense will save.  Trade him to the Marlins for a batboy.

     

     

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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    posted at 12/16/2012 2:34 PM EST

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:

    He never hit more than 9 HRs in any other season

    The one seasson he did he was getting meatballs in front of terrific seasons from Pedroia and AGon. Put him with the A's and see what he does. Effort and commitment doesn't exist for this prima donna who, ever since he was made a season starter, been AWOL or a part of teams with no leadership and 3 playoff wins in the half a decade he's been with the Red Sox. Loser in college and the pros. Package him and his draft compensation with 3 or 4 prospects not named Bradley, Jr. and Barnes and get a long term young RH slugging OF'er. NO, there's not going to be a team that sends a 1st rate young SP in a trade. Get over it!




    Bazinga!!

     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    posted at 12/16/2012 6:57 PM EST

    I hope they trade Ellsbury for an aging middle reliever, just so I can watch Schumpeters Ghost burst into an apoplectic fury...

     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    posted at 12/16/2012 6:59 PM EST

    In response to notin's comment:

    I hope they trade Ellsbury for an aging middle reliever, just so I can watch Schumpeters Ghost burst into an apoplectic fury...



    LOL!

    I would like to know what offers might have been made already for Jacoby.

     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    posted at 12/16/2012 7:05 PM EST

    Since Ellsbury will be a free agent after the 2013 season, he is going to put up big numbers (like all Boras clients LOL).  So when the July trading deadline comes along, his value will go up, then trade him to a desperate contender and get at least equal value in return. 

     

     

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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    posted at 12/16/2012 7:16 PM EST

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

    Since Ellsbury will be a free agent after the 2013 season, he is going to put up big numbers (like all Boras clients LOL).  So when the July trading deadline comes along, his value will go up, then trade him to a desperate contender and get at least equal value in return. 


    Daisuke Matsuzka, Carlos Pena and Adrian Beltre (2009) are among Scott Boras clients who struggled mightily in contract years.

     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    posted at 12/16/2012 7:18 PM EST

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

    Since Ellsbury will be a free agent after the 2013 season, he is going to put up big numbers (like all Boras clients LOL).  So when the July trading deadline comes along, his value will go up, then trade him to a desperate contender and get at least equal value in return. 



    Daisuke Matsuzka, Carlos Pena and Adrian Beltre (2009) are among Scott Boras clients who struggled mightily in contract years.

     




    Beltre had 3 contract years with Boras, and 2 of them were MVP-caliber...

     

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    posted at 12/16/2012 7:20 PM EST

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to notin's comment:

    I hope they trade Ellsbury for an aging middle reliever, just so I can watch Schumpeters Ghost burst into an apoplectic fury...



    LOL!

    I would like to know what offers might have been made already for Jacoby.




    The market is probably limited to Texas and Atlanta.  THe problem with trading Ellsbury for an immedaite upgrade is any team acquiring will have "win now" mindset.  So either the Sox deal him for some future pieces, or hold him as a 1-season stopgap and/or see how free agency treats him....

     

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    posted at 12/16/2012 7:25 PM EST

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

    Since Ellsbury will be a free agent after the 2013 season, he is going to put up big numbers (like all Boras clients LOL).  So when the July trading deadline comes along, his value will go up, then trade him to a desperate contender and get at least equal value in return. 


    Daisuke Matsuzka, Carlos Pena and Adrian Beltre (2009) are among Scott Boras clients who struggled mightily in contract years.




    In that case, "for most Boras clients".    ;)

     

     

  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    posted at 12/16/2012 7:41 PM EST

    In response to notin's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to notin's comment:

    I hope they trade Ellsbury for an aging middle reliever, just so I can watch Schumpeters Ghost burst into an apoplectic fury...



    LOL!

    I would like to know what offers might have been made already for Jacoby.




    The market is probably limited to Texas and Atlanta.  THe problem with trading Ellsbury for an immedaite upgrade is any team acquiring will have "win now" mindset.  So either the Sox deal him for some future pieces, or hold him as a 1-season stopgap and/or see how free agency treats him....



    I have no issues trading Jacoby for prospects. If Ben really thinks we can win this year, he can trade prospects for an OF'er and or SP to make us better long term and perhaps even in 2013 (compared to our team with Ellsbury and no trade).

     

  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    posted at 12/16/2012 7:51 PM EST

    In response to notin's comment:

    I hope they trade Ellsbury for an aging middle reliever, just so I can watch Schumpeters Ghost burst into an apoplectic fury...




    Don't worry - they will eventually trade Ellsbury and get terrible value in return.  Then you can tell us all how great the Sox are for making another dumb deal.

    That's your role.  You praise every Sox move.

     

     

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    posted at 12/16/2012 10:17 PM EST

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    In response to notin's comment:

    I hope they trade Ellsbury for an aging middle reliever, just so I can watch Schumpeters Ghost burst into an apoplectic fury...




    Don't worry - they will eventually trade Ellsbury and get terrible value in return.  Then you can tell us all how great the Sox are for making another dumb deal.

    That's your role.  You praise every Sox move.

     




     

    Going out on a limb here.  Literacy is not your strongsuit....

     

  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    posted at 12/17/2012 1:12 AM EST

    In response to notin's comment:

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    In response to notin's comment:

    I hope they trade Ellsbury for an aging middle reliever, just so I can watch Schumpeters Ghost burst into an apoplectic fury...




    Don't worry - they will eventually trade Ellsbury and get terrible value in return.  Then you can tell us all how great the Sox are for making another dumb deal.

    That's your role.  You praise every Sox move.

     




     

    Going out on a limb here.  Literacy is not your strongsuit....




    Going out on a limb here - you eat you own dandruff.

     

     

     

  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    posted at 12/17/2012 2:23 AM EST

    In response to BOSOX1941's comment:

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:

    Because he has shown he can be a great CF. Injuries have curtailed that ability.



    He had a Brady Anderson year !  He never hit more than 9 HRs in any other season. Minors included. He never had more than 60 RBIs in any season , minors included. He did bat for a decent average in the minors. He does not have a throwing arm. He's a glorified Otis Nixon with just a little more pop in his bat.



    At least Otis Nixon knew how to steel bases even in his late 30's.... Elles barely ran last year.

     

    The Brady Anderson comparrison just might be more true than we realize. I never thought of it.

     

  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    posted at 12/17/2012 2:24 AM EST

    I wonder if the Sox ever really made an inquiry about Justin Upton. After seeing Trevor Bauer dealt for peanuts I have to wonder if there was ever an idea for getting both Bauer and Upton.

     

  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    posted at 12/17/2012 8:49 AM EST

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    I wonder if the Sox ever really made an inquiry about Justin Upton. After seeing Trevor Bauer dealt for peanuts I have to wonder if there was ever an idea for getting both Bauer and Upton.



    Makes you wonder, huh?

     

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